marlin 1889

[enfield]

hello, I just aquired a marlin 1889 in 38-40 ( serial # makes it about 1892 ). it has a 26" round barrel and looks great. the problem is the barrel has a "ring" about 8 inches from the muzzle that you can see and you can feel with a patch( the patch goes easy when it comes to that spot ). the rifling looks very good and when I slugged the bore it cut very good grooves in the slug. you can almost feel the spot on the outside of the barrel when you slide your fingers along it. will this shoot ?? , is this something that happens when someone uses modern loads in a black powder gun ?. my other question is about slugging the bore, the maximum diameter of the slug is .406 , is this the size bullet I go for or do you go smaller or bigger ? also, do I use a grease cookie in a 38-40 or just use a bullet with good grease grooves ? thanks.

[Ed Barrett]

I have always had my best accuracy with the max size of the slug to .002" larger. Every rifle is a little different, if you can get some different sized bullets in this range and give them a try, then your quest has begun.

[woody1]

[QUOTE=enfield;154525]is this something that happens when someone uses modern loads in a black powder gun ?.
NO, what prob'ly happened was it was shot with an obstruction in the bore. Shoot it, I'll bet it does fine.

the maximum diameter of the slug is .406 , is this the size bullet I go for or do you go smaller or bigger ?
IMO you want a larger, certainly no smaller boolit. I wonder if all the '89's had large bores. Mine has about the same size as yours and that's larger than the 38 WCF's were supposed to be. I've yet to find a boolit in the right weight and/or shape that'll fit mine so I use squeezed down .452's. They shoot pretty well. What I think you want is the largest boolit that you can get to chamber.

do I use a grease cookie in a 38-40 or just use a bullet with good grease grooves ?
If you're askin' about shooting black powder, I dunno. I shoot mine using squeezed down Lyman 452488's lubed with FWFL and Green Dot powder. QUOTE]
Regards, Woody

[boommer]

enfield with a.406 diameter that you slugged your barrel at you wont be able to use
a standard 38/40 mold of .401 you probably will need to use a 41 cal mold .410 and
being that you going to load it with black you are going to cast them soft with that lite of around 30-1 most likely ! and they will will cast smaller in most molds when they are softer with a .406 bore you would want .408 but here is your next problem
if it will chamber your brass is thicker now days so before you lay any bucks out on
molds I would do chamber cast. AS no I would not use a cookie and I have a 44-40
rifle I dont use veggi-cards in them but thats just that rifle and being a bottle neck of
type not sure how it work even. hope this helps you !

[w30wcf]

enfield,
Sounds like a neat old rifle. Chances are, the ring at that location will probably not hurt accuracy. At .306" your groove diameter is a bit on the large side but it should shoot aok with soft undersized bullets which will bump up to fit the bore if black powder is the propellant. (I have a '73 Winchester circa 1882 with an oversized .433" groove diameter and it shoots aok with soft [pure lead or 50/1 lead/tin] .427" dia. bullets with black powder.)

If you had a mold that would drop a .406"-.408" bullet, your cases may not chamber. ALSO, check to make sure that whatever bullet you use will not make the cartridge too long to feed from the magazine.

A friend of mine has an 1889 Marlin in .38-40. It too had an oversized barrel at around .404" and there was rifling actually missing in some places(!). It had one of the worse bores I have ever seen. With factory smokeless ammunition, accuracy was hopeless (6+" @ 25 yards.):(

What really made this rifle shoot was poly shot buffer over 4227 powder. Using .400" dia. 10MM 180 gr. jacketed bullets and 180 gr. cast bullets, this rifle would shoot 1" groups @ 25 yards.:mrgreen: The poly shot buffer acted as a gas check, allowing the undersized bullet to center itself in the barrel, undisturbed by any gas trying to get by. He never has tried any b.p. in it.

Good luck.


Woody 1,
WOW!:shock: .452" down to .406"! Now that's a SQUEEZE! I would assume that you lube them first(?). By chance, have you tried any .44-40 bullets sized down?


w30wcf

[woody1]

Woody 1,
WOW!:shock: .452" down to .406"! Now that's a SQUEEZE! I would assume that you lube them first(?). By chance, have you tried any .44-40 bullets sized down?

w30wcf

Yes, I dip lube them first making sure to get lube up over the shoulder and size them with a push thru. The lube on the nose portion seems to help keep the boolit centered and the lube groove pretty much maintains size too although it widens some as I recall. I wrote about it here I think we were over at the other place then (Aimo?). When I first got the rifle the only 44 mould I had was 429421 and I didn't want anything that heavy. The boolit I'm using comes in at just under 200 grains ready to shoot. When I need more boolits for the 38, I'm going to try using my RCBS 44-200. Regards, Woody

[enfield]

:-D thanks for all the good ideas, I concidered getting a lee .401 or .410 mould ( 40 s&w , 41 mag. pistol mould ) but maybe I'll squeeze down a couple .429's to make sure they will chamber for an expiriment before making a purchase. wouldn't want to have an extra mould laying around cause then I'd have to get a gun to fit it . :?: :?: With black powder in the case do you just use an over powder card to seperate boolit from powder or nothing at all. ( I'm used to cardboard, wool, cookies, cream of wheat etc. in the snider and martini. thanks.

[Wayne Smith]

In my 44-40's I don't use any wad and have no problems shooting the MAV Dutchman bullet out of them. This is out of a 4 3/4" and 7.5" Uberti Cattlemen and the Uberti 1873 Short Rifle with a 20" barrel. I do use a wad in my 40-70BN.

Try it both ways and see which works for you. I started without the wad and it worked fine so I never tried using one.

[WBH]

You can shoot the white stuff in your gun if you are conservative. Paco has some good info on the older BP serialed guns. I have a very nice 32-20 Model 73 with a bore that is ringed in 2 places. It shoots great. BUT, I shoot a 20:1 or softer bullet and I don't push it too hard. The softer bullet will obturate to the bore easily. Enjoy your piece of history.