clay boolits? never seen these before

[latesvak]

so i was going through a bunch of range scrap boolits and came across a couple i have never seen. when i tried to crack the jacket it split and looked almost like it was made of clay . they were .451 at the base and .6275 tall.
anyone have any idea what they are. the cast boolit is a .401 just for a size comparison
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_203524eee3c1c82dcd.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3056)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_203524eee3c2c15fcb.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3057)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_203524eee3c41b41b6.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3058)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_203524eee3c8edf9ec.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3059)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_203524eee3c9b23f04.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3060)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_203524eee3ca810b20.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3061)

[beagle]

Interesting bullet. Guess that's lead free for sure but I wonder about the weight. Any guess as to the weight of what you have remaining?

The US experiemnted with frangible ammo during WWII that was a clay bullet for the .30 MG. Supposedly designed for practice on aircraft as they'd break up on the skin. However, I've seen some fired off a tank machine gun at 100 yards and they penetrated a 1" pine board and made some pretty deep troughs in the clay/gravel behind the stakes so I wondered what they would do to aircraft skins.

This broken down ammo was the source of the milsurp 4759 that Bartlett sold several years back.

Guess they'd work but I think I'll stick to casting lead./beagle

[nighthunter]

I frequently find similar bullets mixed in with my range salvage stash. I have believed them to be a powdered and sintered metal composition. The major producer of sintered bullets is located very near me and local folks are useing their bullets and they are showing up more and more in factory ammo. Most of the ones I'm finding are handgun rounds in 9mm, 40 cal. and 45 auto. They do produce 22 and 30 caliber rounds mainly for the military. I imagine they will be showing up in more places with the lead free hoopla.

Nighthunter

[DocHoliday]

Not entirely sure but to me they look like compressed copper. A lot of the frangable bullets I have used were compressed copper with a plated on jacket. From your pictures this seems to be the case. It looks like a tarnished smooth outside jacket with a compressed grainular core.

[williamwaco]

I don't know what they are but they cured me from buying range scrap.

Between the FMJ with no opening for the lead to get out, and these bullets you described ( which will not melt, I couldn't melt it with a propane torch.) I got 38 pounds of lead and 62 pounds of waste from 100 pounds of reclaimed pistol bullets.

I raised so much hell with the scrap dealer, he gave me 162 pounds of wheel weights for the price of 100 on the next buy.



.

[Jim]

This is the .308 Frangible M-160 110 Grain bullet. You suppose it's similar?

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/imagescaq8c0t6.jpg

[TCLouis]

Is it possible that it is some version of a Glueit . . . No following convention here on the site I guess it is Glooit?

[Jim]

TC, in response to your concern, it's 'gluelit'.

And, trust me, that ain't no gluelit! :bigsmyl2:

[scb]

http://frangiblebullets.com/xcart/40-10mm.html

[mroliver77]

I do not see any rifling marks on them. My first thought was the clay inserts from old Minnie boolits. Too coincidental that it measures .4515 though.

I do live in a cave and miss the latest greatest offerings.

I never seen digital calipers that have the first digit large followed by smaller digits!
J

[Mk42gunner]

I do not see any rifling marks on them. My first thought was the clay inserts from old Minnie boolits. Too coincidental that it measures .4515 though.

I don't know, that last one all the way to the right almost looks like it has been fired through a rifled bore.

Latesvak, how much do they weigh, if you have one that is mostly complete?

They don't look very frangible to me.

Robert

[turbo1889]

I have heard of "black ops" guns built entirely of non-metallic materials using high-tech ceramics to replace the normal metal parts like the barrel and slide assembly that can't be made out of plastic. Obviously, some kind of 100% non-metallic ammunition is needed to go with such a gun including the bullet it fires.

Just a thought.

[latesvak]

well i put one that was 90% together on the scale and it came in at 143.25. seems odd being that its larger in diameter then a 40 s&w but weighs in a lot less. and it does seem to be a pressed metal with a really really thin copper jacket. i do like the responses so far . but im going to keep digging . thanks for all help



latesvak

[Bret4207]

Bismuth? Wasn't there some some talk of a bismuth bullet a few years back?

[Mk42gunner]

I think Bismuth would be a lot closer to lead in weight, and isn't it grey in color?

I'm thinking it is a bullet from some kind of "green" ammo. I haven't kept up with it, but a 160ish grain .45 sounds plausible.

I know the militarty was working on the green ammo to save on range cleanup with lead based bullets. I kept hearing rumors about it before I retired in '04; especially after we started getting some 5.56 in that was in cardboard boxes, not ammo cans.

Robert

[leadman]

Probably a sintered bronze core. I had some of these in 223 and some never made the 100 yard target.

[tommygirlMT]

160 grains for a 45-ACP bullet with a standard mililtary ball profile (230 grain jacketed lead core) --- that sounds too light weight for even copper/bronze/brasss --- powdered aluminum mabey light enough to get down to 160 grains with the same volume

[Sonnypie]

Oh, those are special practice rounds.
They are clay.
And they are made to shoot dirt clods with. [smilie=1:

OK, back to the corner.... :coffee:

[higgins]

I too found some of those in my range scrap. I "discovered" the first one when I hit it with a hammer to break the jacket, thinking it was a plated bullet since it was about the same color on the outside after weathering. It broke into two or three pieces that went flying. They can't be frangible or they would have disintegrated when they hit the backstop. I have found very few of them so far, but I keep on the lookout for them so I don't shatter another one. They seem a bit lighter than a comparable size lead bullet. I'll guess some kind of a nontoxic bullet, but it's only a guess.

[WilNsc]

The US experiemnted with frangible ammo during WWII that was a clay bullet for the .30 MG. Supposedly designed for practice on aircraft as they'd break up on the skin. However, I've seen some fired off a tank machine gun at 100 yards and they penetrated a 1" pine board and made some pretty deep troughs in the clay/gravel behind the stakes so I wondered what they would do to aircraft skins.


/beagle

Aircraft skins pretty thin normally, .040 -.100 aluminum. I sure wouldn't want to be shot at by anything, even clay. Though I suppose it's possible they had a min saftey range of say 500yards+ to where the bullet lost enough momentum or started to break up before impact to where it was safe.

[caseyboy]

I find them all the time. It is non magnetic and I believe it is compressed copper. They go in with the copper jackets and my scrap yard has no problem with it.

[Mk42gunner]

I've been up with a sick kid so I did a little research-- it wouldn't have impressed any of my teachers or bosses, but what the hey.

I think these are some of the newer sintered copper training rounds that are supposed to be frangible. The trouble is I haven't been able to find any for a .45 ACP or the Gap (it seems to be hanging on, barely) that weigh less than 185 grains.

I couldn't even find any pictures of the projectiles.

Speer has a RHT bulet, no definition found for RHT....

Remington has "leadless" ammo, the name to me means no lead at all, but reading the description sounds more like a TMJ bullet meant to reduce lead exposure. Maybe it should be called lesslead...

I haven't bought any handgun ammo in several years, so I don't really know what is available now. It seems most of the non toxic stuff listed in the first edition of Bob Forker's "Ammo & Ballistics" is off the market.

Robert

[mroliver77]

I did a bit of research too. ;) Sinterfire makes a "Range Special" line of bullets for practice firing. 140 gr .451 bullets!

From their site;

SFR Range Special
This family of bullets will out-perform anything of comparable weight. The same virgin copper/tin composite materials are used, performance is improved, the cost is less and quality is not compromised. These bullets are being marketed as a low cost alternative to OEM ammunition manufacturers and indoor/outdoor range operators that load their own range ammo. The characteristics of these components are: Frangible, controlled fragmentation, reduced hazard and no ricochet on metal targets.

http://www.sinterfire.com/components.html#sfr_range
J