a little 1911 advice

[kennyb]

I have a Rock Island 1911 Tactical that has shot to the left since I bought it, I have added ajustable Dawson sights and now can move the sights over enough to hit bullseye at 20 yrs, well I wanted a better group so I installed a Kart EZ fit barrel, (not easy and takes closer to 7 hours then the 1 hour they advertise) but man does it shoot a nice group now, but still not happy with the sight issue, actually I think it is a trigger issue. So I ordered C&S drop in trigger kit from Brownells. The only problem is I have never stripped a 1911 down past field stripping. I don't want to tear it down and not be able to reassemble it, or not function correctly. Any good advice to help a guy out?

[Mk42gunner]

1911's can be tricky the first time.

The only real tricky parts are holding the safety plunger in while reinserting the safety, and getting the three fingers of the sear spring bearing on the correct parts (sear, disconnecter and trigger).

The thumb safety comes out when it is halfway between on and off, you kind of have to wiggle it to get it started out.

The best advice I can give you is to either buy a book, or find the disasembly instructions on the internet.

Robert

[KYCaster]

Here's a pretty good video that shows ALMOST everything you need to know.

In order to install the thumb safety the hammer needs to be in the full cock position.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P4XJTKzKEU


After you get the new fire control parts installed, check to make sure there aren't any problems before you attempt to fire it.

With the hammer cocked and the thumb safety off apply thumb pressure to the back of the hammer. It should stay in the full cock position under substantial pressure.

With the hammer cocked and the thumb safety on apply firm pressure on the trigger (12-15 lbs.). Release the pressure on the trigger and move the thumb safety off. The hammer should stay at full cock.

At the range, with the slide locked back insert a magazine with only one round into the gun. Release the slide stop to chamber the round. The hammer should stay at full cock.

Remove the empty mag and insert another mag with only one round. Fire one round. The hammer should stay at full cock. Repeat this drill five or six times before you attempt to load a full mag.




Good luck
Jerry

[kennyb]

Hey Robert, I live in Pleasant Hill, any chance we could get together and you could coach me taking it apart and putting it back together?

[sailinon]

The best 1911 gunsmith I know pointed me out to your thread.

You and I are both "strip to frame" noobs. for my money, there are not better vids on the Web than these two. I took my Combat Elite apart for the first time in 10 years (yes, I'm telling on myself, for everyone's amusement) with these two vids.

Disassembly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr5Wm9Y_CVs

Reassembly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr5Wm9Y_CVs

Good luck,
Sailinon

[seagiant]

Hi,
If you guys are serious about working on your own 45"s you NEED to buy this book!!! http://www.gunbooks.com/

Vol. 1 is on actually working on the pistol and vol.2 is more on inspection and fitting. I have just about every book he has written as a hobby gunsmith as do most pro gunsmiths!

[kennyb]

Sailinon,
Thanks for taking the time to post the videos, but you posted the same one twice. Would you please post the dis-assembly one too? Many, Many thanks.
Kenny

[LGH]

It's easy once you get into it.

1911 .45 Dis assemble
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEBrkF0sMgI

1911 re assembly part 1,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bh6K5rNenc&feature=related

1911 re assembly part 2,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBhk2LKE8_c&feature=related

[AndyC]

I have a Rock Island 1911 Tactical that has shot to the left since I bought it...

...actually I think it is a trigger issue.
Assuming the sights are fine, you might be on the right track.

Most right-handed fellers shoot to the left with the 1911 (and many other pistols) because the trigger is too long for their trigger-finger - so when they press the trigger, they're actually pushing the muzzle ever-so-slightly left.

Install a shorter trigger or add more finger to the trigger - or simply pull the trigger a lot slower so that any movement of the sight can be noticed. I wrote this a while ago for another forum - reposting here:


Well-known in shotgun-shooting circles is the concept of length-of-pull - and how greatly it influences one's ability to hit the target. It's almost never mentioned in handgun shooting, however, which is a great pity; many accuracy issues can be pinned down and then resolved if one has a little awareness of what it is and how it can affect one's bullet placement.

"Why am I hitting to the left all the time?"

(For the rest of this discussion, we'll assume that you have a handgun which is accurate and has been properly sighted-in)

In handguns, the length of pull is the distance between the face of the trigger (before firing) and the rear of the grip where the web of your hand meets it. The problem is, everyone's hands are different - and our own trigger-finger might be short, long or somewhere in between, relative to that particular firearm's trigger.

When you pull a trigger you must pull it straight back; any pressure other than straight back during the trigger-pull will push or pull the muzzle to one side or the other.

"Wow, this grip is fat"

If your finger is overly short - relative to that particular trigger - you will be adding pressure at an angle instead of straight back, which will force the muzzle to move sideways. This is called a push - right-handed shooters push their shots to the left while left-handers push shots to the right.

You can still make good hits despite this if you're watching the sights and correcting as you slowly add pressure - but if you're firing more rapidly, you'll never notice that little sideways bobble or have the opportunity to correct it.

This is another reason why single-action triggers which have a very short length of travel before firing eg. the 1911-style pistols are considered to be very accurate. It's not just the crispness, the "glass-rod break" - it's that the short travel of the trigger doesn't allow too much of a push or pull sideways before it fires. A double-action trigger is not only heavier, but it can be so long that a person's finger can easily change position on it during the trigger-pull, adding pressure first to one side then to the other before the shot breaks.

The reverse occurs when a finger is long (again, relative to that trigger) - but in this instance, the finger has to curl completely around the trigger and adds sideways pressure from the other side. This is called a pull - right-handed shooters pull their shots to the right while left-handers pull shots to the left.

I've made up a pic in Paint to illustrate (don't shoot the artist, please) - it's a view from above, looking down on the trigger and a finger in position relative to it:

http://i50.tinypic.com/sevsxd.jpg

As a personal example, my finger is way too long for the Ruger .22 pistol - its length-of-pull is way too short for me, so I pull shots during rapid-fire (I'm right-handed, so I pull to the right of the target).

Check your own length-of-pull on your various handguns (safely, of course). Make sure that your finger isn't too long or too short for that particular trigger - and if you can't change it, at least be aware of how it can affect your shooting.

[sailinon]

Sailinon,
Thanks for taking the time to post the videos, but you posted the same one twice. Would you please post the dis-assembly one too? Many, Many thanks.
Kenny


Vid Post FAIL!!!! :killingpc

Yeah, my folks just got here from down south, I wasn't concentrating well.

Series 80 1911 Complete Disassembly with DETAILED INSTRUCTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjHvh72_uk&feature=BFa&list=ULnr5Wm9Y_CVs&lf=mfu_in_order

Series 80 1911 Reassembly with DETAILED INSTRUCTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr5Wm9Y_CVs

[gray wolf]

One other important check that many folks ignore.
Cock the pistol and apply the safety,
squeeze the trigger with about three times the amount of force to normally fire the weapon. ( this is with the safety on )
gently take off ( release )the safety,
Hammer is still back finger off the trigger. Place the pistol up to your ear,
have your ear against the frame in the area of the hammer.
slowly pull back the hammer and listen for a distinctive ping.
if a ping or click is heard it is the sear jumping foreword, it could render a hair trigger or a hammer sear relationship that is unsafe.
It should be checked, it happens when a new hammer, sear or safety is installed
if done incorrectly. But it can happen other times also, as in ****tt happens.

[22cf45]

AndyC
FWIW, your trigger finger illustration doesn't really agree with what Brian Zins recommends. He says to place the first crease in the trigger finger about the midpoint of the trigger. :)
Phil

[Char-Gar]

Before you do anything, check on how your trigger finger contacts the pistol frame. MAKE DARN CERTAIN that your trigger finger is not in contact with the pistol at any point. It is very common for folks to push the pistol out of sight alignment when they pull the trigger if their trigger finger is in contact with the frame.

When I broke the code on this 50 years ago, my scores went way up. This is called "isolating the trigger finger".

[shotstring]

22cf45, I have seen more combat competition shooters recommend the first crease compared to bullseye shooters which often recommend something else. Whole world of techniques for getting the trigger pull to have least amount of effect on sight picture and alignment and I think I have tried them all....unsuccessfully. :o(

[22cf45]

Shotstring
It certainly does appear that unsuccesful trials dominate and I've been down that road as well. I think the main point is, however, no matter what position you chose for your trigger finger, the KEY is to move the trigger straight back as you said in different words.
Phil

[KYCaster]

22cf45, I have seen more combat competition shooters recommend the first crease compared to bullseye shooters which often recommend something else. Whole world of techniques for getting the trigger pull to have least amount of effect on sight picture and alignment and I think I have tried them all....unsuccessfully. :o(


No way I could get my short fat finger that far onto a 1911 trigger.

You're right.....one size does not fit all.

Jerry

[kennyb]

Very good information, its been fun playing with this pistol, frustrating at times but fun. I settled on a load of I think its 5.2 grains of Tite Group under a 230 grain RN I cast with a Saeco mold. I still haven't got the new disconector, sear, thumb safety fitted correctly but did figure out how to dis-assemble and reassemble it with the origional parts. I can't believe how much difference the NM Kart barrel makes.....thanks all.