All the Complaining That Goes On About Lee Precision [Archive]

geargnasher

12-24-2011, 05:12 PM

I've said it lots of times, Lee precision makes some things that are just pure junk (like their chamfer tool, for example), but those items are few, and they make many products that, IMO, are the best to be had on the market at any price, often being the only items of their kind. If it weren't for the Pro1000, Classic Turret, Collet neck-sizing dies, case trimming tools, and push-through sizers I'd still be loading for maybe two calibers, and not shooting much. The quality and affordability has enabled me to enjoy this hobby about a thousand percent more, and also has allowed me to be able to afford a few really fine custom items like boolit moulds and precision seating dies.

The Turret and progressives also save a lot of wear and tear on my hands, and being able to afford multiple units saves time changing calibers. Years of twisting wrenches makes my hands hurt all the time, and not having to handle every case four or five times during loading is a godsend.

Gear

Linstrum

12-24-2011, 05:52 PM

I'm a "Red Re-Loader", too!

If it weren't for Lee, I would guess that we'd probably have about 25% of the casters and re-loaders we presently have. Before Lee, only a few people could afford to buy the tooling to re-load and cast. Of those who could afford it, they probably could only afford to reload for just a few calibers instead of the approximately 20-plus pistol and rifle calibers I reload for, including .50 BMG!

I have been using Lee stuff since 1984 when I got my Springfield M1A and could no longer bother my buddy to use his loading bench to keep up with my ammo needs.

No complaints here about Lee stuff beyond a few moulds that needed the vent lines cut deeper.

rl1061

Jim Flinchbaugh

12-24-2011, 06:37 PM

Growing up, I was always told to "avoid that cheap ****"
Then one day I bought something Lee, hmmm ,this is pretty nice.
So I bought more. Not disappointed with any of it so far. I even bought one of the
little "pretend" single stage presses 2 weeks ago for taking to the range.
Yeah, you cant do a 50bmg on it, but for neck sizing and seating bullets on the range, you cant hardly beat it!
And the neck sizing stem in their dies are superior IMO to RCBS

geargnasher

12-24-2011, 06:42 PM

Lee's breech-lock hand press with a few extra interrupted-thread bushings makes a pretty handy range press too, and a portable hardness tester if you get the Lee kit.

Gear

JonB_in_Glencoe

12-24-2011, 09:50 PM

I ordered a custom Collet neck-sizing die set and FCD for my Jap 38 custom 257x6.5 rob.
I think their webpage said 3 months lead time (or maybe 3 to 6 months?).
anyway, I got both FCD and the Collect set in 2 months...Not as quick as the OP,
but quicker then advertised, none the less.

When I sent in the required boolits and brass, I included a "well stated" letter
that I wanted to size the necks Oversize for my Oversize bore (.0045" oversize to be exact)
I was worried I'd end up with dies made for .264 bullets
I was estatic to receive dies made exactly to my request.
Sized case necks come out to an ID of .267 for my .269 boolits.
The FCD works as expected.
All for $85 To my door.
I think that is just incredible.
Jon

Rafe Covington

12-24-2011, 10:08 PM

Thecyberguy

12-24-2011, 10:19 PM

I have a bunch of Lee stuff. I have no problem with any of it. Like others, if not for Lee, I would not be loading the number of calibers that I do.
TCG

nicholst55

12-24-2011, 11:31 PM

I agree that some Lee products are very well designed and built; others not so much. Some products were doubtless a good idea and well engineered, but the execution of the plan just didn't work out. I own and use several Lee products; their collet sizing dies are wonderful, their universal decapper is indispensable, their RIFLE FCDs are very useful. Their push-through sizers and case trimmers represent a wonderful value, and their 6-cavity molds are the one of the best production molds available IMHO. I've never used a Lee press, so I won't comment on them.

I also agree that a lot fewer people would be reloading and especially casting bullets if Lee had never come along. I started reloading with a hammer-style Lee Loader, 2-cavity mold, pan lube kit, lead pot, and ladle. I was a young soldier, husband and father, and that was all I could afford. I used to go around the tire stores after they closed and police up any wheel weights laying around outside! That and berm-mining were the only two sources of lead I had for a long time.

drklynoon

12-24-2011, 11:50 PM

I started reloading with an inexpensive Lee kit. I pushed alot of ammo through that set and was able to "upgrade" items as money became available. Lee's equipment is invaluable. Their safety scale is well yeah the first thing I replaced lol. The rest of their equipment is extremely usable and I recommend them to most beginers.

Heavy lead

12-25-2011, 12:16 AM

I started out reloading with a Lee Challenger in the mid 80's, young and broke, it worked, and well, it's retired to smaller jobs now, but over the 20 year span of it being the main press on my bench I reloaded probably 20 different cartridges, from .204 through the Ultra Mags, created wonderful accurate ammunition and NEVER broke it once, in reality I could still be using it today. As well moved up to the 3 and 4 hole turret presses for pistol, likewise loaded excellent rounds with the awesome auto disk powder measure.
I have since moved to 3 Hornady LNL's, they are faster, but create no better ammunition.
I can afford such niceties now, but if I couldn't I'd have the Lee's back on the bench. I have green, light green, different red's, and orange, all work well.
My big single stage is a Lee Classic Cast, simply no better single stage exists, and I've used Rock Chuckers and others.
Don't think much of their scales, don't like the two cavity molds much, but they do both work, and well.
Thanks Lee, without you it wouldn't have been as easy to get into reloading, yes I will buy more from you and do, there are others now as well. But thanks to them for providing good products, because they do.

1hole

12-25-2011, 10:24 AM

There is a vast difference between what someone 'likes' and how mechanically skilled he is to use anything that has little to do with the "quality" of the item. I don't like Lee's Safety Scale but that doesn't mean it can't do excellant work for all but the most clumsy.

If a tool has the function and strength to do its designed task it has all the quality it needs. Anyone attempting to size large rifle cases on a small Lee alum alloy press and breaks it doesn't need more quality, he needs more common sense for choosing and using his tools. Those who equate any tool's slick external finish and purty knurling for 'quality' rather than how well the tool functions needs a better grasp of reality. IF I had to replace my old Rock Chucker 2 this week it would be with a Lee Classic Cast; it's the better press of it's type, at any cost.

I've been reloading for several decades, own a lot of brands and have used even more. I choose my tools by their design, not by the brand - and a good bit of what I have is red. I quite having a 'favorite' brand of anything a few years after I started, I quickly learned that all our makers produce excellant tools that work well IF they are used correctly. NOTHING is any good if it's used incorrectly.

koyote

12-25-2011, 11:00 AM

I have been reloading for only a couple years. I own 3 Lee presses and some assorted tools. I have used single stage and manual turret presses my friends have that are made by other companies- from current production to old stuff like an 8 hole pacific turret.

In terms of presses themselves, aside from the monster turret my friend has, I don't really feel a lot of difference. My Challenger handles everything, and is smooth enough. Maybe not perfect, but it doesn't break and it does the job. My only complaint was that I had to modify one of the primer seaters so old primers would flow properly without having to worry about taking the part out (or having it fall out) - It's possible I will eventually end up with 2 classics and 2 turrets on the bench, but whatever happens, I'm not seeing a color change in my future.

Since I use autoprimes for priming most of the time, it's no big deal.

I, unfortunately, didn't start with a lee loader, but I have my first two on the way (found a well priced 20ga 2 3/4 and got a new 45-70) and I am looking forward to it!

My hand press is amazingly useful, though I want to get the new style one that takes the bushings. It's also very strong.

I'm a bit ambivalent about my loadmaster, but I haven't really used it in full progressive mode. I think, in reality, that I'd prefer a turret. I can load 500-600 rounds a week, but I seem to end up doing too many of the steps manually for me to make full use of the loadmaster.

I have 2 autoprimes, ended up being cheap enough that it's worth having one set up for small and one for large. And cheap enough I may get a third and fourth so I can be lazy and leave two set up for .38 and .44 cases!

I have a 10-10 scale which, I admit, is a LOT nicer than my safety scale. But the safety scale works and I haven't blown anything up using it.

The autodisk measures need a wee bit of attention to use, but my experience with them is that they will throw consistently and they work great. The only problem I had was having to tweak things because lee is so ultra-conservative I ended up with loads a too light at first.

Actually, my main and only real complaint with Lee is that between the ultra conservative loading recipes and the "rounding down" conservative nature of the auto-disk recipes, Lee ends up being *inaccurate* enough on load data to make performance differences. I ran into this with .32 auto, especially.

The dies? Oh, man. I was spoiled. I bought a set of 7.62x54R, 8mm, and 45-70 dies from another company- used. Excellent condition, but I QUICKLY ended up selling them and got Lee dies for all 3. Can't beat the Lee dies, even if they make a few odd choices (7.62x39 collet dies are available, but for 7.62x54R you have to custom order?!?!?!)

I have zero desire to switch colors in my preses and dies.

Char-Gar

12-25-2011, 03:50 PM

The Lee press mounted, push through size, is one of the really good things in the bullet casting world.

Bwana

12-25-2011, 04:32 PM

I have a bunch of Lee equipment and a bunch of the others as well. Let me diverge from the main topic and relate an encounter with Lee's management that happened about 17 years ago. I was messing around after developing my "disc checks" and had made an item in a machine shop class that I was taking so I could learn something about lathes and milling machines and have access to the equipment. I thought that this item would fit in with Lee's product line and be a good seller for them. I called them up and was put in touch with one of their management. When I explained what I was calling for he said that they did not take unsolicited ideas and he did not even want to hear anything about it, not one word. I tried to make my case and he was very firm. I said ok, and he apologised but said that it was to prevent someone from saying that they had stolen their idea even if they already had a similar product in the works. Seemed like a screwed up way of doing things; but, I could see his point. So that item went back on the idea shelf and a few years later I figured a better way to do the same thing and didn't bother anybody with the new idea.

trapper9260

12-25-2011, 04:53 PM

I have some lee items like the BHN tester I know I needed one and could not afford the hight price on so I did some reading hear what was said about lees so I got it and it works for me just right. I also have some of there orther things and molds ,all I can say is each company has it place for each person it is up to that person of what they want and need and afford. It is up to the one that is buying what they want and use and afford . I do trapping and it is the same way with foothold traps ,you have the not so high price ones and you have the high price ones , it is up to the buyer.

exile

12-25-2011, 05:19 PM

All my stuff is Lee. I agree that in addition to making fine products in America, Lee forces the competition to keep their prices down. As far as I'm concerned, my Lee Classic Cast press ($ 59.00 new) is the best on the market, especially for a left-handed hand-loader.

exile

1hole

12-25-2011, 08:39 PM

"... he apologised but said that it was to prevent someone from saying that they had stolen their idea even if they already had a similar product in the works. "

That is a very real item of concern for a lot of manufactors because a bunch of them have had to defend themselves in court over it. And, considering the average IQ of many juries, you may understand that sometimes they still lose!

John Boy

12-25-2011, 11:30 PM

Many of are in agreement - Lee Precision with John Lee at the steering wheel has put many products in the hands of reloaders - that work and for prices that are reasonable. Some say cheap.

I'm a BPCR shooter of many calibers. I was surprised that no one mentioned the Lee Perfect Powder Measure that I use for all my BPCR reloads. Twenty four buck for a powder measure that drops consistent accurate charges. Here's a test I did comparing the Lee to some of the best measures ...
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7037

Dannix

12-26-2011, 01:03 AM

and a few years later I figured a better way to do the same thing and didn't bother anybody with the new idea.
Curisoity is about to put me into the morgue. Could you "bother" us here? :mrgreen: Are your "disc checks" like Wilk gas checks (http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl134partial.pdf)?

I'm using a Lee classic cast as my one and only metallic reloader. Got other red items on the bench, but they are MEC. Got a Dillon 650 on the to-buy list, but its lower on the list compared to the MEC gear and Star sizer that was on the list. (shrug).

gandydancer

12-26-2011, 01:43 AM

I buy what works best for me. and I use lee for just about all my reloading. some items are not well made so I stay away from them. my press is a redding T7 and a RCBS ammo master & I have used a lee press for years. I have a dillon 550 with a lot of extras I have not used in 15 years just rusting away in the celler. no longer shoot in 45 matchs don't need it I like to take my time reloading and just about all my dies are LEE some custom made by lee.and some molds. and their hand primer is the best. GD

Bullet Caster

12-26-2011, 02:17 AM

I also use Lee exclusively unless I can find a deal on something else. My press is a Lee Breech Lock press as are all my dies are Lees too except for my 30-06 dies and they are RCBS thanks to a member here. All my moulds are Lees as well as all my case prep tools, i.e., shell holders, case length guides, cutter and chamfer tools. If it were not for Lee, I wouldn't be able to reload or cast anything. Nothing wrong with Lee in my book. BC

Recluse

12-26-2011, 02:18 AM

I remember asking a deer I shot and killed a few years back if he was bothered by the fact that the shot that did him in was constructed using primarily Lee equipment.

He never did answer me.

:coffee:

timbuck

12-26-2011, 02:30 AM

If Lee makes what I need, I buy it.
I wish they made the 325WSM.
I have the Lee Classic Turret Press. Only problem I had was with the auto index.
Once I figured out what I was doing wrong (short stroking), it runs great.
It does what I need.

Bwana

12-26-2011, 08:26 AM

Curisoity is about to put me into the morgue. Could you "bother" us here? :mrgreen: Are your "disc checks" like Wilk gas checks (http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl134partial.pdf)?

I'm using a Lee classic cast as my one and only metallic reloader. Got other red items on the bench, but they are MEC. Got a Dillon 650 on the to-buy list, but its lower on the list compared to the MEC gear and Star sizer that was on the list. (shrug).

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=74391
&highlight=disc+checks

They are just like PatMarlin's PB checks. I started making them about 25 years ago and fired a bunch of them on my 295 and 340 gr 44 boolits out of my two DW 44 mags. My method of production was a little slower (?) but they work great. The pics are no longer there.

Rokkit Syinss

12-26-2011, 08:37 AM

Not a thing wrong with Lee as long as you know what you're getting. Good dies, OK molds, case trimmers work but they are not for high production.

DODGEM250

12-26-2011, 08:50 AM

I have no problems with Lee either. Everything I own is Lee. I have no issues with my molds, beats the extra $30-$45.00 for a Lyman. Why the Lyman is so great is beyond me. I have borrowed a couple of Lyman molds, and I don't see any benefit on this end. My presses are Lee as well, no issues with them either. There's no need for debate between the two though, what it boils down to is your personal requirements, budget, and quantity needs. My reasoning is, if you shoot paper and don't hunt, buy something that will mass produce. If you hunt and shoot paper a little, buy Lee, it's more adequate.

daboone

12-26-2011, 11:27 AM

The ingredients that made America strong, American made, innovation, and very competitive pricing. Lee also has the attitude that make you smile when reading his book and advertising. Kinda reminds me of Mr. Herter's wonderful catalogs.

HeavyMetal

12-26-2011, 12:31 PM

Bwana has hit the nail on the head with the problem at Lee Precision.. it's management.

Most of the products Lee makes are good solid ideas others not so much.

examples are the zip Trim and the Lee Load Fast. I will admit this is a personell preference thing and Lee has the 3 jaw chuck as an option to the Zip Trim and it is one of there best ideas!

The real compliant with Lee is management or lack there of!

QC doesn't exist and they depend on there distributors to handle most of that and, I suspect, at the distributors expense. I have seen this business model in other industries!

Customer service? That can be iffy and, if you've been on site long enough, you may be aware of group buy issues when they were the only mold maker willing to cut "custom" designs.

If you called to see what took them so long to do a job they'd bump your project to the bottom of the list for having the nerve to question them about it!

Several GB's had to be re cut, one in particular about 3 times before they got it right!

This is one of the reasons we now have makers like Mihec doing GB's for the site and providing better service to boot!

Some will say we get what we pay for and in all case's this is true!

However when I submit the asking price for any product without haggling or whineing I feel it shoud be delivered in a reasonable time frame with reasonable quality!

If the manufacturer is loosing money on the deal he needs to say so and adjust pricing.

If the manufacturer is havng labor problems or training issues he needs to say so, and this is important, he still needs to stand behind his product line and services!

So has there been some a little "bashing" of Lee here? Absolutely!

By listening to your customers issues, and I will admit some are BS, one improves ones products if he cares to listen!

Case in point: Lee Precision is a paying advertiser on this site, see top of any page, and, the rumor has it, they visit the site regularly.

Yet I have never seen a post by anyone claiming to be a company rep ( please point me if I have missed such a post) defending the position or asking for examples of customer service or QC "mistakes".

I have not seen a post asking about the GB's that have gone elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong but I have not 'seen" a mold GB go to Lee in a long time.

You'd think in tough times losing any business would run up a red flag and at least generate an appeal to try them again.

So far as I know no such post has been made, must be nice to be able to throw customers away!

In conclusion let me say I still buy Lee stuff and I suggest Lee stuff to people starting out or needing some special gadget they didn't know exists.

But I always add the proviso that customer support is iffy at best!

geargnasher

12-26-2011, 01:34 PM

"You'd think in tough times losing any business would run up a red flag and at least generate an appeal to try them again."

Lee isn't experiencing "tough times" at all right now. They had to build and tool an entirely new facility to even begin to keep up with the demand for their products in the last three years. I think their current problems are related to growing pains, and the production and facility level is exceeding the effectiveness of the original company's business model. They are at the point now where ISO compliance and hiring outside production management consultants would do them a lot of good, but to do that they'd have to revamp the entire concept of how this once small familiy business was run, and no doubt add significant cost to the end products. I also don't think they have any interest in getting involved with internet forum discussions about the merits of their products. That can and does get ugly fast. Remember that Lyman used to be a site sponsor? Remember how THAT worked out?

Gear

Thecyberguy

12-26-2011, 02:03 PM

I have had a few minor issues with a few Lee things. A couple due to my own ignorance. I have had nothing but good service and in each case was treated well and fairly.

"Correct me if I'm wrong but I have not 'seen" a mold GB go to Lee in a long time."
I have seen a few folks try to start a group buy and were stormed with so much "bashing" it was just left to die. Nothing wrong with stating that you had a bad experience, but some folks seem to go way beyond that. Too bad.

I even started a thread here asking if in fact Lee group buys were dead here and had many responses that pretty much said yes. Like I said Too bad.

That being said ...watch the ones that come after me for saying such a thing!!!!!

Mossy Nugget

12-26-2011, 03:48 PM

I was off and loading with the lee anniversary kit right away as everything needed but dies and case length gauge comes with it. I load about 150 rounds a week. Likewise the loadall for shotshells provides 100 shells for Sunday clays. The chamfer tool won't do outsides of short cases, the scale is difficult but useable. Today I load 4 calibers, and the lee classic turret press would be ideal for that. I would recommend the challenger kit for beginners today as I prefer the feel of the hand primer. If my modest needs wear out my lee equipment, then I might concede to those who spent much more. I chose to buy more powder, primers, and lead instead. Haven't been sorry so far.

fortrenokid

12-26-2011, 03:55 PM

I , too, have a "chamberpot full" of Lee Products, particularly moulds and die sets. All of 'em work great and so, so much more inexpensive than most competitors. And I reload cartridges from 25-20 WCF to 577 Snider.

I have had GREAT customer service from them.

A while back a decapping pin on a 45LC die broke. I thot nothing about it ... the set had loaded 10's of thousands of 45LC's over 15 or 20 years. I wrote and told 'em the warranty had long since expired and asked the cost for a replacement. Told 'em at the same time I needed a shellholder for 45 Auto Rim and asked the cost for it. Faster than you can say "Holy S@#T" I had a replacement die with decapping rod AND a 45AR shellholder and NO CHARGE. Not a penny! Nada!

Then, in early December a 30-06 case got stuck in the full-length resizing die (yes, I'd polished the case and sprayed it with Hornady One Shot). Sent the die w/stuck case and asked their assistance in getting it out, my efforts having failed. In a few days, and this was during the Christmas rush, I had a brand-new 30-06 full-length resizing die AND a free tube of Lee case lube and, you guessed it, NO CHARGE.

Lee is tops in my book and I plan to keep using 'em for as long as I draw breath.

HeavyMetal

12-26-2011, 04:09 PM

the fact that thecyberguy started a thread concerning GB's through lee, and the negative response he got, shows the point I made in my previous post: the manufacturer has to care about his customer or his business goes 'elsewhere"!

Many got tired of the response from Lee when inqiry's about paid for GB's were rebuffed.

Guys like Mihec stepped up saw a market niche to be filled and did so with product that can only be described as excellent and in reasonable time frames as well.

Now I have several GB molds made by Lee and all are excellent, I was lucky not to have been involved with the first ill fated h&G 68 copy lee made for the site.

I also realize they are growing as a company but, and this is a big but, smart management does not allow company growth run away like a wild horse! Anybody here remember New York Seltzer???

A prime example of corperate mismangement! I did business with New York Seltzer during the time they were in busness and, as the company grew, stupid moves went from plain stupid to "magnum" stupid!

One of my guys was literally trapped under thier scrubber by a TIGER left to wander the facility!

A California thing to be sure but still why spend money buying a TIGER when you need to hire people to help run your business?

I've said it before and I will repeat it now I do not mind paying for tools! Lee has a number of almost idispensible items that I have on my loading bench.

The product, for the most part, is excellent but pictures and stories of new product being "jacked" when it comes out of the box is unforgiveable in the amounts we seen come out of Lee's inventory judging by the posts seen on this site alone!

If a mold design was suggested as a BG, and it was one I wanted, I would have no qalms about making a purchase "provided" reasonable delivery time and QC could be "garronted" by the manufacturer!

Mihec is, as far as I know, a one man band with a single CNC machine and he manages very resonable pricing and delivery times.

Is it an unreasonable request to ask why can"t Lee do the same?

fj3fury

12-26-2011, 07:09 PM

I only bash stuff that I have had problems with. With that said I'll list those..

Lyman .223 two die set that stuck more casings than i care to count back in the early 1990's.

Lyman .270 die set, expander cracked.

Lee .329" mold. The sprue cutter was warped and I replaced it with one from a Lee mold I seldom use.

Lee wadcutter mold for the 38/357. The bottom of the mold was out of square and finished with what I surmised with an angle grinder. I fixed it by cleaning it up with my mini mill and a face mill cutter.

Lee single cavity 150 grain fn for 30 cal mold, somewhat older one. I scrapped it after after it flew out of the handle, when I was hitting to release the bullet, and landed in the quench bucket. The mold was smoked thoroughly to release the bullets.

Lee 6 cavity 230 grain tc mold, cam lever to open the sprue cutter on the first casting session. I repaired with a cut down piece of tool steel.

I mentioned Lyman twice. So while most of my turkeys were Lee, I didn't pull any punches. I will say that I like Lee die sets a lot, especially the collet dies.I have for the most part gave up on their molds.

DCM

12-26-2011, 07:28 PM

I am very "high maintainence" when it come to loading equipment, I have some expensive high end tools and presses. That said I also have a stack of Lee boxes next to the other red, orange yellow,green blue and the other green boxes. I also have 7 of Lee perfect powder measures!
I am very fussy about what I use for certain things but I usually find the Lee products to be of high quality and great value.

mold maker

12-26-2011, 08:28 PM

It isn't the brand that does the work. It's just a tool.
Thank God for LEE.
We'd all be paying extreme prices for ammo, if it weren't for Lee keeping the reloading/casting prices down for all of us.
If ya only see red when ya think about LEE, then by all means buy the rest, but remember who kept them all affordable.

405

12-26-2011, 08:33 PM

Well, cheap is always attractive but sometimes at a price.

I too have a mixture of brands. I have a few Lee molds that I consider as spares. Generally, they are kinda junky. Of the 10 or so Lee molds I have, I only use (1) as my primary mold for a particular use. The Lyman, Ideal, T/C, RCBS and Mountain Molds I have are plain and simple superior to the Lee.

While the internal specs on Lee dies seem to be pretty close to correct some of their design features would leave a neanderthal scratching his head. Aluminum locking rings with rubber O rings that lock nothing???? Die stems that have internal O rings that lock nothing???? Decapping/neck button stems with friction collets that don't lock???? Hand priming tools of plastic and chrome plated pot metal????, etc.

But, some of Lee stuff is really good. I like their large mold handles. I like their rifle (not pistol) factory crimp die for certain things. I like their old, original hammer driven reloading system.... it can produce extremely precise ammo. I like their neck collet sizing die.... very concentric neck to body specs for precise ammo. I like their cast bullet sizing push thru die.... very precise bullet sizing with near zero runout... and they can easily be honed out for custom sizing. I like their case trimming system... it is precise and can be easily changed for custom lengths and uses but ughh it is tedious.

I guess if there weren't some real stinkers in their product line and the QC wasn't iffy, there wouldn't be many complaints and this thread wouldn't have legs.

40Super

12-27-2011, 03:34 AM

I'm with 405 . I have a mixture of colors on my bench(It used to be only green),I've tried all of them amd they all do the same thing for the most part,but I have only had problems with one die and it was Lee(the very first Lee that I bought because so many people stood up for them).I looked up inside the die and the surface that sizes the neck was rough and not polished very good.

Now that said die would not size the rifle cases that I bought it for, it took quite an amount of pressure to use,and the sound coming from it told me what was going on. I tried every lube I had plus went into the garage and tried several thick oils, finally seized one(I knew it would happen).I pressed it out and called Lee. The guy I talked to said "if you want the die to work use Lee lube",that is arrogent . He wouldn't even listen to me when I told him the surface was not right or that the other case lubes I used(Imperial sizing wax and RCBS case lube) worked fine for everything else so why wouldn't it work on their die. That put a sour taste in my mouth for that company.

I took that die set back to the lgs that I bought it from and told him the story(he was a Lee fan of sorts),he took the die out , put it in his press out back and promply seized a case using LEE lube! He then traded even up for a RCBS set and I had the 100 cases sized in 20 min,no issues. The ironic part is that I bought the Lee because they were "cheaper" and I don't reload that caliber much so I wanted to save money. After $25.00 in extra gas I ended up with one of the brands that I normally get. Didn't save anything.

Now yes they(Lee) do make some good stuff and it works as good as the "others" but just looking at past threads here and on other forums it is clear what brand has the most issues. That is the price difference.

TinCan Assassin

12-27-2011, 04:20 AM

cajun shooter

12-27-2011, 11:20 AM

First I will say that I started with the Lee hammer kit in 38 special after coming home from the army in 1969. It sacred the hell out of me when a primer would be set off in the seating process.
I now do all my loading on the Lee Classic turret. I loaded with nothing but Dillon and to me it is still the best. I had to sell a press to make money and the Dillon 550B loaded out brought over $500 as opposed to the hundred the Lee could sell for.
I have had problems with various Lee dies including the pistol crimp dies.
You will not see one piece of Lee Equipment at any serious gun competition.
I ordered 4 of the Lee Custom group buys and custom big lube bullet moulds. I had to send three back for several problems including undersized cavities. I ordered a 200 grain and a 250 grain moulds in 45 Colt. I requested that both moulds drop .454 bullets as my revolvers were at .4525 and I shoot 100 % Black Powder. The moulds were dropping bullets at .449.to .452 from one 6 cavity mould. Pat in Customer Service told me that I was being a impossible customer. I asked him what was so impossible about requesting a mould that drops .454 bullets. He did not answer. I sent the moulds back several times at my cost and then when I requested a refund from the seller it took over 5 months of letters.I then purchased a Lee Pro pot to try it out against my old Lyman 20. The Lee dripped and the rheostat would have temperatures all over the place. Trying to keep a even temperature was impossible. The last straw was when the entire lever device pulled loose from the pot and dumped hot lead all over my bench.
If you doubt the skimpy set up take one of your tiny self threading screws on top out and see that it is only in the very thin pot metal.
I wrote a long letter suggesting that this problem be looked at before some one was injured and they sent me no answer and a new pot which I sold the same day received.
If you have had good luck with your Lee Equipment then all the best to you. After 40 years of loading I know that they have border line products with a few that are very good.
I have nothing but praise for the Lee Classic Turret, the Lee hand press, and the Lee universal decapping die. I do know that Lee tools allow people to get started at a low price and to use things that they could not buy other wise. However I will say that the quality control and the persons in charge like Pat do nothing for the company.
This is not a put down or spreading rumors but the facts of my experience. Take Care David

pmeisel

12-28-2011, 11:16 AM

I have a rainbow bench, lots of Lyman, Lee, and RCBS.

Never had any real difficulties with any of them. I like Lyman M dies and Lee FCD's -- wish they cross-licensed. Eventually --

KCSO

12-28-2011, 01:40 PM

My only problem with Lee is that after all these years they still don't make a mould in a proper size. If you want to reload a 30 you need to buy a 32 mould ect. A 38 mouold that drops a 356-357 bullet just isn't real usefull as is. But I have used Lee dies since they came out with few complaints and I still have my first Lee loader.

Idaho Sharpshooter

12-28-2011, 03:13 PM

Geargnasher,

for true precision work you must also: Paint to cover

Texantothecore

12-29-2011, 06:05 PM

My reloading bench is all red. My portable outfit I use in the field (stored in my field bag) is all red. I have been very pleased with Lee products and I suspect that I will be using them for the foreseeable future. The only exception will be some molds that they don't make such as Postel and other BPCR and long distance rounds.

I couldn't be more pleased with a supplier.

machinisttx

12-30-2011, 01:11 AM

I've got stuff from lee, RCBS, redding, lyman, hornady, and probably a few others I've forgotten. I've never been very impressed with anything from lee, and consequently I don't purchase their products anymore. The majority of it will work adequately for the intended task if you're not terribly picky. I am picky, and Lee just doesn't deliver what I want in reloading equipment.

The Lee PPM is an excellent measure if you only load stick or flake powder. If you like to load ball, prepare to have it leak all over your bench in addition to the measure becoming almost inoperable due to binding.

The original "O" frame press was fine for handgun cartridges, but entirely inadequate for rifle. I broke the linkage on one sizing .308 brass....Lee charged as much for the replacement part as a brand new press.

Their handgun dies might work for you, or they might not. The seater plugs fit no bullet known to man and inevitably seat bullets crooked. The sets I have *just barely* size cases enough, and in a couple of cartridges, not enough. They all gather dust on a shelf now.

The hand press is a great little portable press, though you're gonna need a lot of muscle to FL size rifle cases.

The safety scale works well, but unfortunately is limited in capacity. Not a good choice if you want to sort bullets or brass by weight.

Ultimately, quality costs money. That said, sometimes you're paying more for a name/status than you are for the quality of the item. In Lee's case, you generally get about what you pay for.

Pigslayer

12-30-2011, 08:01 PM

I started out buying small things from LEE back in the 70's. Was always satisfied . . . no complaints. I have a LEE Challenger press for light stuff & several push thru sizers. Again no complaints. I have five of LEE's molds, one of which I had a little problem with . . . I worked it out. Overall, LEE makes good stuff.

jonk

12-31-2011, 02:29 AM

If you have your neck tension right, I'm of the opinion that the Lee collet sizer dies for rifle rounds are the best on the market......period. better than Redding, RCBS, etc., in that they are designed to eliminate bullet runout.

Their standard dies are not as fancy outside as others, but offer the most robust decapper/expander with the least abrupt shoulder of any I know of.

Their bullet molds... well I prefer Lyman but it's a cost benefit thing. When I can get 2 or 3 Lee molds for the price of one Lyman, that's a no brainer.

I don't care for their scale, their chamfer tool, or their #18 shellholder.

Their progressive presses are hit or miss. They work ok but are finicky. Once working though, they produce ammo every bit as good as more expensive models.

Their customer service is fantastic. I know, I know, RCBS... I'm the one guy who has had nothing but trouble with them, which I won't go into more now. Lee on the other hand has always been very courteous and fast.

Plus they are made in America and produce goods at a fraction of the cost of competitors. I point to them when someone says "Americans can't produce quality goods at a good price anymore."

Love Life

12-31-2011, 04:15 AM

My reloading bench is multi colored. I buy dies based off of what is cheapest at the time. I have a RL550 from Dillon and it truly is the bees knees, but I still break out my Lee O frame press for my rifle rounds.

The lee autodisk is hands down the best powder measure I have used for reloading pistol cartridges on a progressive press. I have one Dillon powder measure and the rest are lee auto disks. They work just fine with the RL550. The Lee perfect powder measure also works well.

Both of my casting pots are Lee. Whenever a person comes to me and says "I'm thinking about reloading. Can your price me a set up?" I will price them a set up from Dillon and a setup from Lee. Usually they go with Lee.

The only thing I don't like about Lee are the sizing dies. Of the 10 Lee sizers I own I had to open them all up .001 to size correctly.

Also LLA is awesome!!

cajun shooter

12-31-2011, 12:03 PM

LLA may be awesome to a smokeless shooter but to someone who shoots only the original gunpowder it is little less than a thick gooey tube of oil that has no use what so ever. May make good target; have not thought or tried that yet.
It may also (IF YOU HAVE PLENTY OF TUBES) be a good front or rear differential lube for getting you home if you bust a hole in one of them on on a rock. Take Care and Have Fun shooting!! David

zuke

01-01-2012, 09:02 AM

Beekeeper

01-01-2012, 01:14 PM

When I started reloading 50+ years ago everything was green.
When I put it all away to raise a family ( servicemen had to do things like that) The yellow was getting popular.
When I returned to reloading I remembered a couple of Lee whackum loaders I had and went looking for Lee equipment.
I still have my green equipment and still use it but find very little if any diference between it and the Lee.
I no longer shoot Match so the micrometer seaters and sizers are not needed.
All in all I am very satisfied with Lee but like the OP I would like to see some realistic mold sizes for us picky shooters.I think they make them for the masses as they do for most of their equipment and that is their niche in the reloading world.

beekeeper

Recluse

01-03-2012, 11:03 AM

The majority of it will work adequately for the intended task if you're not terribly picky. I am picky, and Lee just doesn't deliver what I want in reloading equipment.

I'm picky as hell, especially over my rifle ammunition. With that cheap O-ring press (Challenger) and cheap Lee 30-06 dies and my load components, I can shoot five-dot "clovers" at 100 yards all day long and MOA at 200 yards.

For what it's worth, I've loaded well over 5,000 rounds on the cheap O-ring press without a single malfuction or linkage problem, including forming .270 to 30-06, as well as full-length sizing scores of .308, .303, 30-30 and .223.

The Lee PPM is an excellent measure if you only load stick or flake powder. If you like to load ball, prepare to have it leak all over your bench in addition to the measure becoming almost inoperable due to binding.

Two Hornadys, one Lyman, one RCBS later and the Lee powder measure is still standing on the bench, and has only leaked once--when I failed to close it shot before taking it off the stand to dump the powder.

Those MOA loads are measured out with that Lee powder measure, and rarely do I have to use the trickle. Both 335 and W748 flow extremely well through that little $20 Lee measure, and in fairness, the Hornady metered the ball powders every bit as well as the Lee.

But when it comes to the stick and flakes, I've yet to have, find or try a powder measure that throws as consistently accurate as that little Lee.

Their handgun dies might work for you, or they might not. The seater plugs fit no bullet known to man and inevitably seat bullets crooked. The sets I have *just barely* size cases enough, and in a couple of cartridges, not enough. They all gather dust on a shelf now.

I've got an attic full of IPSC and PPC and LE tournament trophies, all won with ammunition loaded on a cheap Pro1000 and with Lee dies with seater plugs that "fit no bullet known to man which inevitably seat bullets crooked."

Gathering dust? Swapping & Selling will get you a few bucks for them.

The safety scale works well, but unfortunately is limited in capacity. Not a good choice if you want to sort bullets or brass by weight.

While eerily accurate, only the Pro1000 has caused me to swear more and louder than the Lee Safety scale--and I have one of their early ones, in green, of all colors!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_73384f031a3515423.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3278)

Ultimately, quality costs money. That said, sometimes you're paying more for a name/status than you are for the quality of the item. In Lee's case, you generally get about what you pay for.

I'll put their Classic Cast single stage press up against any Lyman or RCBS or Hornady in existence. Same goes with their Classic Turret.

Don't get me started with their progressives, however, or some of their doo-dads which are absolutely innovative, like the Zip Trim or adjustable powder bar, but made so poorly as to cause a nun to prefer group sex as opposed to trying to fix or use the parts.

There are other considerations as well:

1. How often does one reload? For the casual reloader who might pull the handle and reload 500 rounds of 9mm a year just to stay in practice, a Dillon 550 is a waste of money and resources.

2. How does one treat their equipment? I've seen people tear up crowbars and anvils. Usually the same folks who can buy a one-ton dually diesel and have it go bad in the first forty-thousand miles, then blame everyone but themselves when they failed to rotate tires, change filters, use good fuel, etc etc.

3. What is one's budget? Not everyone can afford a Lexus or Mercedes, but a Toyota Corolla will get you down the road just as quickly and often times more efficiently when you weigh your investment ratio into the mix.

Anyone who says you can't make good ammo with Lee or any other brand other than Dillon is full of bovine excrement. Tools help, but ultimately a craftsman is just that.

I've got blue and green on the reloading bench at the hangar, and primarily red in the reloading shop at home (Lee, Hornady, MEC) and other than the Pro1000, I haven't had any problems with any of it, and some of that stuff is going on thirty-plus years old and gets lots of use on a weekly, often daily basis.

But then again, opinions vary.

:coffee:

jcwit

01-03-2012, 01:32 PM

On this we agree, Recluse.

Josh Smith

01-03-2012, 02:20 PM

Hello,

I prefer Lee dies.

Their powder dropper is pretty good, better than I expected from plastic.

I'm a fan of the disk powder thrower.

The hand priming tool is OK. I snapped the handle on mine and ordered a couple more to keep on hand. The new handle is an improved design.

My press is, and always has been, a Lyman turret. I got it for the price of shipping from someone who replaced it with something different. My preferred scales are a Lyman/Ohaus D5 and an old Redding oil-dampened antique. Didn't like the Lee safety scale or the Lyman 1000XP digital.

I really like the Lee ram prime, but wish they hadn't discontinued the type that automatically feeds the primers. I prefer not to touch them, so use the hand primer most.

I like the Lee furnace I have as well as the moulds. The dipper serves, but only because I'm a lefty and Lyman only recently came out with a reversible cast dipper.

I've been thinking about grabbing a Lee single-stage press for a few lighter chores.

Just some thoughts.

Regards,

Josh

Cowboy T

01-04-2012, 12:00 AM

My reloading bench is almost entirely Lee. The notable exception is the RCBS 10-10 beam scale.

Lee Precision makes gear that isn't Dillon- or RCBS-level. It doesn't have to be. Not everyone needs a Mercedes S-500 when a Honda Accord will do the job nicely. And that's the thing about Lee gear. It serves a different market, the "Honda Accord" market, at an appropriate price point, and the gear does do the job nicely. My Pro 1000 in .38/357 will click north of 30,000 rounds very shortly.

My moulds cast well. A couple of them drop boolits a little small, but Lee-menting the mould takes 10 minutes. I just did it to my 452-200-RF. My .358" cast maybe a thousandth or two large, which is preferable over too small. I don't even have to size these boolits. They shoot well as is.

I will continue to buy Lee gear as I need it.

greenwart

01-04-2012, 12:18 AM

My friend has been teaching me to cast and we started discussing the need g for a 401 bullet to shoot out of our 10mm and 40s&w's. He mentioned that the Lee 6 cavity 175 truncated cone had a fairly good reputation and he wouldn't be adverse to going halves on one. I ordered one from midsouth and with handle have got barley over $50 in it. I have had three casting session with it and have produced about 1000 boolits each time . I am extremely happy with the mold. I am a price performance guy and this mold delivers so much so I have a 6 cavity 158g 357 on order.

DollarBill

01-04-2012, 11:14 PM

Started out long time ago with the wackem 12 ga. Lee loader. Loaded tons of shells with it and the guy I gave it to still has it and uses it.

Started loading 9mm with the small lee single stage press, and have about 2000 from that one. Tons of work to do it that way but they always go bang.

Got a 4 hole progressive turret press for Christmas this year and let me say that I like it. It works, the safety primer works flawlessly, the Auto Disk throws perfect charges so far, and its a bunch easier to load now than changing the dies for each station.

For me their equipment has always worked. Dies, molds sizers, so I keep using them. So if that's the case.... then use what you want.

If you want to buy me all the other equipment, dies, molds etc. Then fine. But I don't have the extra $ for other colors, so I got what I got.

If you like it. Use it. If you don't. Don't. Always remember opinions are like armpits; everybody has a couple and sometimes they can be repulsively fragrant. So.. I just go with what makes me happy. Haven't had the reloading fairy bring any other stuff so I just sit here and crank em out and grin.

Ya'all have a great one
$Bill

troyboy

01-05-2012, 09:37 PM

Lots of parrots.

Sonnypie

01-05-2012, 11:04 PM

...and a few carrots. :mrgreen:

Elkins45

01-10-2012, 11:28 PM

I assembled my first reload (357 magnum) with a Lee Loader hammer kit and RCBS scale in 1980. Who knows when I would have started if I had needed to wait until I could afford a press and dies too? When I finally got a real job some years later I bought an RCBS press because that what was sold in the LGS. Had there been Lee presses back then I might well have bought one.

I cast my first bullet with a Lee mould sometime in the late 80's, lubed it in a Lee aluminum pan and sized it with the Lee hammer thru sizer. Who knows if I ever would have started casting if I had needed to save up to buy a Lyman mould, handles and lubrisizer. I didn't buy my first non-Lee mould until 2010.

I can't imagine I'll ever need to buy a new press, but if I do I'll probably look a Lee first. My general pattern is to shop Lee first, RCBS next and then everybody else third. It seems to work for me.

ADfields

01-11-2012, 05:05 AM

I love Lee dies, they are every bit as good as any and better than many. Love the Factory Crimp dies, got to have them! Some of their stuff is real “economy” stuff and I won’t bother with it, it works, does as designed and is cheap on the wallet starter equipment just not up to what I do on my bench. All in all I love Lee, they have cheap stuff that works, if you want better quality stuff they have that also, they cover any problems you might have promptly and very fairly . . . what’s not to like about Lee?
:bigsmyl2:

Idaho Sharpshooter

01-11-2012, 01:52 PM

I started reloading with a Lyman tong tool. It worked, just took me about two minutes to load a round.

Today I have several SDB's and a couple 550's, along with an RCBS A4 and a Forster single stage. No red on my bench.

IMHO, Lee has figured out a way to make every single product they make look cheesy. Bullet moulds are so good RE Quality Control is such that we have stopped doing group buys with them and gone to a better quality NOE mould.

Corollary: a kid down the street has a GEO Metro convertible. I have a Jaguar XK-8 convertible. He does not compare his car to mine, even though they both perform the same job of transporting two people with the top down so passenger and driver can enjoy the sun on a nice day.

jimkim

01-11-2012, 04:05 PM

Umm, Forster presses ARE RED!!!!
So what you are saying is Lee presses have better wiring and get better mileage than a Jaguar?:coffee:

MtGun44

01-12-2012, 02:21 AM

Hey gear, I LIKE their chamfering tool!

Bill

Cowboy T

01-13-2012, 09:32 PM

Lots of parrots.

Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.

BRRAAAAACK! (whistle)

:kidding:

jimkim

01-13-2012, 09:56 PM

Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.
Lots of parrots.

BRRAAAAACK! (whistle)

:kidding:

Sure are huh? :bigsmyl2:

Thecyberguy

01-14-2012, 02:04 PM

I guess I missed it. How does "Lots of parrots" have anything to this post?

jimkim

01-14-2012, 02:41 PM

I guess I missed it. How does "Lots of parrots" have anything to this post?

To me it's the same old my RCBS RC is so much stronger than the Lee Reloader thing I've been hearing for 30yrs(?). If it's not 30yrs it sure seems like it. I even had my favorite cousin scold me for buying a used Lee turret press twenty years ago. He even enlisted his father, just to add on to the, what was at that moment a completely humiliating experience. I went home and stared at my little press that I had been so proud of. In a few years I still had it, and it still hadn't broken, and my pride was back. I kept it for twenty years, and finally gifted it back to the original owner. I have now realized when comparing apples to apples(cast iron to cast iron, or light weight aluminum to aluminum) the Lee presses are the better products, with the exception of the progressive presses. I'm not completely sold on the Loadmaster*. When you compare presses in the same price range the other companies don't even come close.
The Lee Classic Cast cost $73.00 at FS Reloading. The RCBS Partner pres cost $67.00 at Bud's Gun Shop. That's hardly a far comparison, but the Green Parrots have been doing it for years.

The reason I'm not sold on the Loadmaster is I think there is just too much stuff going on, and I like my Dillon RL-300. The fact that, although I sacrifice speed, it uses many manually operated things is a plus to me. I like less complicated machinery. If they would come out with a completely manual Pro-1000 with an old fashion primer system, I might get one. Better yet would be a progressive press based on the Lee Classic Turret using the same manual systems as an RL550.

Thecyberguy

01-14-2012, 02:59 PM

To me it's the same old my RCBS RC is so much stronger than the Lee Reloader thing I've been hearing for 30yrs(?). If it's not 30yrs it sure seems like it. I even had my favorite cousin scold me for buying a used Lee turret press twenty years ago. He even enlisted his father, just to add on to the, what was at that moment a completely humiliating experience. I went home and stared at my little press that I had been so proud of. In a few years I still had it, and it still hadn't broken, and my pride was back. I kept it for twenty years, and finally gifted it back to the original owner. I have now realized when comparing apples to apples(cast iron to cast iron, or light weight aluminum to aluminum) the Lee presses are the better products, with the exception of the progressive presses. I'm not completely sold on the Loadmaster*. When you compare presses in the same price range the other companies don't even come close.
The Lee Classic Cast cost $73.00 at FS Reloading. The RCBS Partner pres cost $67.00 at Bud's Gun Shop. That's hardly a far comparison, but the Green Parrots have been doing it for years.

The reason I'm not sold on the Loadmaster is I think there is just too much stuff going on, and I like my Dillon RL-300. The fact that, although I sacrifice speed, it uses many manually operated things is a plus to me. I like less complicated machinery. If they would come out with a completely manual Pro-1000 with an old fashion primer system, I might get one. Better yet would be a progressive press based on the Lee Classic Turret using the same manual systems as an RL550.

I can show targets that have 3 shots touching each other from 100 measured yards loaded on my Lee cast turret. I believe that Lee makes many good products. I guess I could be called a red parrot.... lol

I guess I just don't see where calling someone a parrot helps lend any credibility to Lee or any other company.

In fact I didn't even know what you meant.

I agree that there is way too much Lee bashing that goes on for the reason of justifying paying more for a similar product.

I do wish those folks would simply say they prefer their choice over others. No need for calling names....I guess.

But that is covered under the "freedom of speech".

I like Lee and have a bunch. I have had excellent results with Lee. But, I am sure folks have had good luck with other products as well.

I was just wondering. Thank for the explanation.

Reload3006

01-14-2012, 03:52 PM

I own a lot of lee gear. some if it cant be beat at any price. I personally dont believe there is a better universal decapping tool on the market. I do not like their presses. Personal preference. And I am entitled to it. I happen to like Hornady dies the best. But I own more RCBS than any. Lee makes fine tools. Most are entry level. and do a good job. Other tools have nicer features that I for one am willing to pay for. On other tools I am not. I Dont bash Lee products I just dont happen to care for a lot of them.

But what intrigues me the most is why people are so touchy about their Lee gear? I dont give a tinkers damn if anyone approves or likes what I use or not. I am not in the least offended by it. If a snob thinks he should only load with Dillon more power to him (I by the way am a Dillon owner as well as Lee and RCBS and Hornady and Redding and Forster and sinclair) Some are cadalliacs others aren't even good enough to be a Ford but they all serve a purpose for me. I love some and hate others. I would recommend some and not others. Take off your touchy shorts and roll with it. Do you own LEE precision? if not what does it matter to you? LMAO

jimkim

01-14-2012, 04:26 PM

That was just my explanation. I'm sure others would have another. I use several different brands and so far I like all the stuff I've bought. Being a single father and raising two kids on my own, kinda limited my funding. I learned a long time ago, to appreciate value and learned to properly use and take care of my equipment.

Thecyberguy

01-14-2012, 04:27 PM

I could care less what people think of my stuff.

The reason I am "touchy" is that many new folks come to these forums for advice and get put off Lee produces because of the bashing that Lee gets.

I have never bashed anyone's products. I try to give my honest appraisal of any equipment I give one for.

I think it is a dis-service to new folks in the casting and hand loading hobby to turn them away from equipment that could serve their purpose very well and for less money.

jimkim

01-14-2012, 05:10 PM

My explanation of the "parrot" remarks are what they signify to me.

While I don't, now, hold any regard(low or otherwise) for what anyone, says about my equipment, I did at one time. People I respected spoke very harshly about it. It put me off for some time, and being cash strapped I felt I had wasted money I couldn't afford to part with.

I am touchy because I remember what it was like, and had I listened to them, I would have sold my equipment at a loss and probably never reloaded again. I believe these experts do way more damage than they are aware.

I enjoy picking back a little too. Especially if they are really bashing something. I can't really tell if they know what they are talking about. Sometimes I think they just "parrot" something they heard. It does grow rather tiresome.

Pigslayer

01-14-2012, 07:40 PM

LEE makes good stuff. They all make good stuff. Splitting hairs is a fruitless venture. I've owned & still do own Redding, RCBS, Lyman & LEE. LEE performed every bit as good as the others at a lower cost. Go figure!

garym1a2

01-14-2012, 08:16 PM

My hand press, my classic cast press and my classic cast turrent press are great. So are my 6up molds. The perfect powder measure is pretty good. I like their dies and have them in 9mm, 40, 45,acp, 38 and .223..

Using their boolit sizers and LLA I lead up too much so I use a RCBS LAM and a good lube.

The load master STINKS. I can run my Classic cast faster and not destroy a ton of primers.

Thecyberguy

01-15-2012, 10:06 AM

The load master STINKS. I can run my Classic cast faster and not destroy a ton of primers.

garym1a2, I am very interested in the Loadmaster for 45ACP.

Why do you say it stinks?
I see the comment about the primers, but I understand there have been some changes recently.
Do you still have your LM?

I have the new cast turret and love it. I can load ammo quite quickly with it, but was thinking of the LM as a move up.

Please elaborate on you bad experience for me and the rest of the folks that will come along.

Hand loaders and few and far between in my area. There is nobody here that I can go to and ask about or watch a loadmaster in operation, so forums like this and folks like you become my "buddy next door" to ask these question of.
Thanks,

aarolar

01-15-2012, 10:38 AM

What I hate to see is someone new wanting to get into reloading and a bunch of guys start telling him lee sucks and start telling him he needs 1500$ worth of Dillon products on top of all the components he is going to need. How many people do you think got turned away because its too expensive to get started? I started at age 15 with my dads lee loader I found in his guncabinet along with some old powder and primers after I played with that for awhile he suprised me one day with the lee single stage kit and now at age 26 I have a whole room in my house didicated to reloading with nothing but lee equipment.

fryboy

01-15-2012, 11:04 AM

parrot ... usually squawks words heard before with no concept nor understanding of what it's ummm "parroting" , but nevertheless keeps umm sqawking ....
from my point of view it's almost humorous ( almost ...) mostly i feel no need to bash anything , it either works or doesnt , and most things work to some extent , the bashing however ..i believe is more a statement of a character flaw or perhaps a need to justify and reflects much much more on the basher than the bashee ( equate it to a bully in school if you prefer ) ford dodge or chevy ... all basically do what they are supposed to yet we have our own individual preferences ,some feel that that qualifies them to have a free reign to bash ( refer to that comment about basher and bashee...) but then again some folks believe that bashing/complaining some how makes them superior ( and that's where i find humor lolz ) there's alot unsaid about operator ability but that bashing does tend to leave clues IMHO .... your opinions of course will be your own and trying something yourself IS the only way you'll know if it works for you ( but some folks do like to tell the man doing something that it cant be done .... even when it's obvious it's getting done ) :shock:

Texantothecore

01-15-2012, 03:37 PM

Thecyberguy

01-15-2012, 04:22 PM

Fixed cost for a new reloader is:

Lee Classic Loader: less than 35.00, shipped.

"How many people do you think got turned away because its too expensive to get started?"

Most of the people who ask about reloading get turned off by the fixed cost of very fancy, hi-tech systems. My students get turned on when I have them reload with an LCL.

Lee stuff is quite good and my reloading bag (I don't need a bench because of the cool portable stuff that Lee makes) is solid red.

I think that is what was being said.
Lee makes very affordable products.
But , if many folks (the experts in a forum) tell you (as a newbie) not to buy LEE because they are not good products and tell you that you need a pile of expensive equipment, well, it might turn you away, figuring you can not afford to be a handloader.

Pigslayer

01-15-2012, 05:29 PM

Josh Smith

01-15-2012, 09:15 PM

You know, if it stuffs a bullet into a case well enough to be accurate, I couldn't care less whose name is on it.

Lee has some pretty ingenious stuff. I really like their powder disk thrower. I do not like their scales -- but that's pretty much it. I've heard bad things about their deburring tools, but do not know why.

Then again, I didn't know about deburring before I started loading rifle cartridges. Maybe it's too long to work for some handgun cartridges? That could be it. Either way, I spin cases with a drill and do all the work that way from sizing to deburring, and it just takes a split second touch to take the burr off.

Before I got wise and started cutting brass down with a hacksaw blade (also while spinning...) after forming 7.92x57 from .30-06, I found their trimming tools to grind them down just fine.

Their perfect powder measure isn't better or worse than others I've sampled. It's the only one I've owned and do wish it wasn't plastic, but it seems to do well. I'm very particular about loading and weigh each charge before dumping it into the case, and theirs gets me to within +/- 0.1 grain when using stick powder like Varget (my favorite stuff!) on most throws.

As I stated previously, my first (and only) press is a used Lyman Turret, the original. Been thinking about a regular Lee single-stage for loading rifle as I only use the press to decap/flair and seat. I've tried separate crimping dies and decapping separately and I really just don't notice an advantage. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Dunno. But everything else is done off-press.

I use a press a lot more for pistol, and that's where a the Lyman turret really shines.

Thought about a progressive to load pistol rounds, but that's really beyond my needs at this point. Besides, I sort of like taking a day to listen to the old Gunsmoke radio show and do some handloading. It's as relaxing to me as a good campfire on a chilly night.

Most folks start off with a single-stage and increase as they learn and increase volume; I seem to be doing the opposite. Paying five minutes' attention to a rifle cartridge that I intend to use with precision is a lot more satisfying than spending seconds bulk rifle or handgun that may not be as precise.

That said, I handload for old milsurps, the youngest of which was born in 1939 and the oldest of which was born in 1892. They have awesome bores and have the capability to take advantage of not-quite-match ammunition.

My pet 1911 is also precise, but, being a handgun, is happy with having every 10th charge weighed to make sure the powder thrower hasn't suddenly opened up (still trying to figure how this would happen) or the charges aren't too light all-of-a-sudden. The .45acp seems to be OK with a couple tenths' leeway plus or minus.

The scales used are a Lyman D5 and a Redding oil-dampened. I love the precision and speed of both, and they're not as temperamental as the electronic scale I used to have!

I just never really knew where I stood with the Lee safety scale, though. While precise enough to keep folks from blowing themselves up, I didn't trust it to be what my OCD demeanor demanded.

Oh -- the dies. I love Lee dies. They're all I use. Never had a problem with them!

Regards,

Josh

pastorcurtis

01-18-2012, 10:38 PM

The two things I replaced from the Lee start up set were the powder measure and scale. For the scale, I wanted a quicker electronic scale. I still have the Lee balance scale for back up. The powder measure was the only thing I really thought was sub par.

The only other weakness I encountered was the resizing die for 7.5 Swiss. Maybe it would work on Norma 7.5 brass, but it just won't resize .284 brass like the RCBS die will.

Boerrancher

01-19-2012, 12:28 AM

My reloading bench is covered with Lee red and Lyman black and orange, with a smattering of RCBS green. I use a Lyman 500 scale, and Lyman 55 powder measure. I have a couple Lyman presses, and a lee press. I use the Lee press most of the time, and most of my dies are lee. My casting equipment is all Lee. I grew up using all the old Herter's equipment and when I am over at Dad's I still use it. Since I can't get Herters stuff anymore, I buy Lee.

Best wishes,

Joe

kappy

01-22-2012, 06:06 PM

I have two RCBS single stages (one portable, one stationary) and two Lee Progressives.

Lee stuff is great. It isn't made with the same quality material, but there are a LOT of interesting innovations (like in their powder measures) which are incredible. A lot of time, the materials aren't important, anyway.

I like Lee. I have few problems with Lee. But... I know folks who bash any gun which isn't a Kimber, so whatchagunnado?:coffee:

Black Powder Bill

01-22-2012, 07:06 PM

I just ordered $300.00 of Lee products. My brother has never reloaded so I picked him up a classic kit. Figure he can start on his 9mm pistol cartridges. The other items in the order are for re-sale.
Even if I was a millionare I'd still get him a Lee for the simplicity of use the product offers.

Alley Cat

01-25-2012, 12:22 AM

To a certain extent, you get what you pay for but Lee products, in general, are excellent value for the money.

gl89aw

02-21-2012, 03:56 PM

I agree with Alley Cat, I have got good service from most of the Lee products I have bought,

GT1

02-22-2012, 04:57 PM

Another Lee fan here. I can say with a certainty that without Lee being in the market I'd have not likely bothered trying reloading.
I started with the hand press, and scale(which works but frustrated me a little too often, I picked up a used Lyman M5 beam scale and it is great), the dippers, a set of carbide dies and auto-prime xr.

I now have a decked out classic turret(best value in the reloading press market hands down, I think). Reloading on the Lee makes me grin, because it does so much, for so little investment.

mfraser264

02-22-2012, 09:45 PM

Also have some Red on the bench. Some of the concepts Lee comes up with are in fact solid designs and good stuff. Take the best of all and use what you like.

They have stood well behind the products from my experience and will buy from again. Money alone will create accurate shooting. The press frames are cast close to Lee as I spoke with an engineer and even had a 3D model of the press frame to look at. Each company measures success differently and they are doing well. I respect the methods they use to arrive at a concept, rather simple and effective.

markshere2

02-23-2012, 12:11 AM

I started out with a used RCBS rig 25 years ago.

When I got into reloading and casting in a big way about 4 years ago, I bought a lot of Lee stuff.
I much prefer Lee dies for depriming simplicity.

All my moulds are Lee.
My sizing dies are all Lee.
I have Lee load-all shotgun shell reloaders.

Lee is simply cost effective!

1bluehorse

03-10-2012, 05:04 PM

I've bought and used a lot of Lee stuff. The things I like and work for me I've kept. The things that didn't I got rid of. For MOST reloading tools I think there are better "quality" options. But I find no reason to "bash" Lee stuff. Opinions vary, a good example, I'm probably the only guy here that actually likes and uses the Zip Trim. Go figure...:smile: but to me this is typical Lee, theres better quality trimmers but this silly thing works for me and I like it.

Just to show I'm not a Lee hater......I have an old Lee LoadFast...and it will load shotgun shells pretty fast, however it's relagated to the top of the closet right now (and has been for a long time). If I have shotgun shells to reload I use my Mecs. The LoadFast works, the Mecs just work better.....My single stage press is a Pacific Multi-Power but if for some reason I were looking to buy a new SS, it would be the Lee Classic Cast...best of the bunch..so yea, some of it is good, some not so good..

MT Chambers

03-11-2012, 02:34 AM

Lloyd Smale

03-11-2012, 06:53 AM

yup its kind of comical that some people take the critisizing of a brand of loading product personaly. Its like you slammed the kid or something. Some guys have the attitude that if they bought it it has to be good as they couldnt possibly make a mistake. Me i tell it like it is. If its a good bargin and gets the job done ill say that and some lee stuff is good enought for even experienced loaders. But some it is junk and if i bought it and think it is junk im sure going to say something to prevent another loader from making the same mistake. IVe got loading gear from about every manufacture out there and use the **** out of it and weakness show up. If you dont want to here it then just ignore my advise and buy what you want but its absolutely silly to take this **** personaly.
Everyone here should be free and encouraged to say good or bad about any gun related products they feel strong enough about, it's just their opinion. So if i slam a product or product line, it's exactly that, an opinion.

Char-Gar

03-11-2012, 01:40 PM

I think everybody here uses some Lee products. I like their bullet sizers, collet neck dies, and shell holders. I also have used some of their rifle dies with satisfaction. So, I don't think there are any "dyed in the wool" Lee bashers here. All of us have found Lee products useful and a good value.

There are also many of us, who have found some Lee products to be total junk and like Loyd are free to express their opinions. But is seems that many folks can't tolerate anything but warm glowing reports on everything Lee makes. They take brand loyalty to the extreme and get all spun up when anybody expresses and alternative opinion. Lee fans relate to their brand in almost cultish fashion.

Like others, I have some Lee products (see above), plus most every other make dating back well over a half century. I keep the good stuff and dont keep the bad stuff.

I wish everybody would just load and let load. If you think a product is good or bad, say so, but dont get so wrapped in in a brand that you lose objectivity or become judgmental of others who hold a different opinion.

MAJ H

03-11-2012, 02:56 PM

1bluehorse

03-11-2012, 04:14 PM

Well, for some it's more about the money, for others it's more about the quality. No right or wrong to that, just differing ideas of value....[smilie=f:

Bwana

03-11-2012, 06:43 PM

Everyone here should be free and encouraged to say good or bad about any gun related products they feel strong enough about, it's just their opinion. So if i slam a product or product line, it's exactly that, an opinion.

And we all know what opinions are like. Opinions are fine as far as they go; but, reasoned thought carries so much more weight. So why waste other people's time by posting your opinion when you could tell us why you think what you do about something? I know that some people are not capable of putting together a cogent post; but, go ahead and try, you just might surprise us and yourself as well.
That's my opinion on the subject.

SquirrelHollow

03-12-2012, 02:06 AM

Well Here's why I like Lee, they are cheap and easy to deal with. I'm an FFL and do a lot of business with both guns and ammo. SOOOO easy with Lee, FFL copy 33% off everything 50% off parts and FREE shipping! That's just awesome goodness right there! Asked another 'ahmem' better manufacture about it and on top of my FFL I had to provide the following...
1. to be a stocking retailer

2. have a business license

3. retail gun store, on commercial property, w/regular daytime business hours

4. yellow pages ad

5. minimum initial order of $3,500.00 wholesale

Nice huh? I think I'll stick with Lee and shoot A LOT MORE

The whole point of the "dealer discount" through most businesses, is because they want DEALERS that will actually move their product. They don't want Joe Cheapskate that just uses his FFL to buy tiny quantities of their products for his own consumption.

Be happy that Lee doesn't care.
It's pretty rare in this day and age.

And... several of those requirements are needed to get your FFL, so it's not like they're asking for your first-born. You should already meet at least half the requirements. :roll:

largom

03-12-2012, 07:51 AM

The whole point of the "dealer discount" through most businesses, is because they want DEALERS that will actually move their product. They don't want Joe Cheapskate that just uses his FFL to buy tiny quantities of their products for his own consumption.

Be happy that Lee doesn't care.
It's pretty rare in this day and age.

And... several of those requirements are needed to get your FFL, so it's not like they're asking for your first-born. You should already meet at least half the requirements. :roll:

Yes in many cases you do have to meet several requirements to get an FFL. I think it's ironic that [in some areas] you can't get a license unless you have a store front in a commercial area, have a sales tax No., and other ****. So you spend a ton of money and still might be turned down for a FFL for some other reason.

Larry

shotman

03-12-2012, 08:27 AM

hey lets start a new one on Dillon. I bought a 650 would I buy another?? NO

RugerFan

03-12-2012, 09:47 AM

I see more posts by people complaining about Lee complainers, than I see people complaining about Lee.

zuke

03-12-2012, 08:13 PM

Dat's so true!

Wilsknife

03-12-2012, 09:03 PM

...Lee, I wouldn't be able to enjoy all the fun and games that go with casting and reloading. My only exception is a Redding powder trickler($22), Based on the reviews at Midway, it struck me as being the best out there. Happy casting and reloading to all you Lee users. :castmine:
PS I'm in the process of setting up my brand new Lee Classic Cast Turret Press. :D

:sad: "These guns [semi-auto rifles with full capacity magazines] are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people." - Mitt Romney, 2004. :-(

:D “How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual…as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised and taken care of.” - Dr. Suzanna Hupp :D

MT Chambers

03-12-2012, 11:41 PM

I don't use Lee equipment, for business purposes, it just doesn't stand up, some other makes don't as well, I certainly like the quality of gear on the group buys here, like NOE, Mihec, etc. I think Lee equipments suits the new reloader or small volume/occasional reloader. For instance, sizing and lubing bullets, I could not get by with separate lubing and sizing operations and then wait overnight to dry. I keep 2 Star sizers busy with my partner, when we go fulltime.....A lot of this carries over to reloading for my own use where i concentrate on precision/accuracy. I have come to like Redding, Forster, Sinclair, KM, Vickermann, for reloading equipment.

Char-Gar

03-13-2012, 01:26 PM

miltfarrow

03-13-2012, 09:33 PM

Have reloaded for 4 pistol cartridges and 6 rifle cartridges since 1981. I have Lee, Lyman/Ideal, SAECO, Redding, RCBS stuff. I can't complain about Lee. They fixed the few problems I had years ago. Without Lee competing, I can't even guess what Lyman and RCBS would be charging for dies. Sure, Redding stuff is expensive, but it's GOOD stuff.

torpedoman

03-14-2012, 09:14 PM

My buddy saw my lee dies and being as how all his are rcbs proceeded to tell me how bad lee dies are. When i pointer out that all dies are the exact same size as dictated by sammi specs and no manufacture can sell one out of spec and stay in business i fail to see the point of paying more than necessary to get a tool that works.

Jim

03-14-2012, 09:18 PM

jcwit

03-15-2012, 09:32 AM

I've got a few sets of Lee dies that I have begun keeping in RCBS boxes. They work MUCH better now.

afish4570

03-15-2012, 11:01 PM

Have a stock 6 cav. 356 like the Lyman 402 TC 120 gr. , 311041 Custom Group Buy and a Ranch Dog 172 gr. FP for 38/357 Marlins......Ran the two pistol molds simultaneously while using a lee bottom pour pot as my working mold. Ran an old Lyman to refill the Lee pot.......in just under 5 hrs. I made 2700 bullets, the most I had ever done at one sitting..... Try to match that with my 4 cav. Lymans. Wish Lee would offer some 6 cav. molds in alot of rifle cals.....My Ranch Dog mold was terrific.afish4570;-);-)

eric123

08-21-2012, 05:32 PM

My Lee Autoprime is close to 20 years old and has never had a problem. I like their products, and have never had a bad one.

Gliden07

08-21-2012, 08:16 PM

I just started to reload and cast bullets. If it was'nt for Lee I would still be on the outside looking in. I've had no problems with any of there products! I recieved a die set from them and the sizing and decapping die was the wrong one (in the pakage from factory) called them had a new one in 2 days!! So there customer service is real good too! I admit I can't say any of the other companies are better or worse with my limited experiance but Lee is a GREAT way to get started resonably!! And to be able to size my BOOLITS for for about 40 bucks!! There ya GO!!

ROGER4314

12-08-2012, 02:02 PM

I have several sets of Lee dies, their lead hardness tester and Lee's manual. I have NO problem with their products!

I'm a big guy who has a history of twisting socket extensions in pieces, breaking sockets and bending wrenches. My last boss called my hands the "Claws of Death"!

Lee presses are well designed to be light and strong. The parts are heavily braced and gusseted which keeps weight down and strength up. That being said, I simply won't use their presses!

RCBS cast iron presses and Dillon massive aluminum castings will stand up to the force that I can apply. The exception is the Dillon "Square Deal" press. It is designed like the Lee presses and I purchased one then immediately resold it.

Yes....I'm aware that if excessive force is required, there is probably something wrong but I look at the Lee presses and shrug. That's just NOT going to work for me!

Flash

zuke

12-08-2012, 06:56 PM

cloakndagger

12-10-2012, 08:55 PM

Ive reloaded on green, orange, and red presses, but id give any of my others up to keep my lee, the hand press is my favorite, but also near and dear to me are my lee loaders, that I saved money from lawn work and tutoring during college to buy and feed, no telling how many 38s ive pounded out with my .38 sp lee loader. As far as practicality the challenger press is IMHO the best value (and quality as far as I've found) on the market. Right now ive got the hand press set up to size my boolits while i watch TV and the "chuck" as dad calls the rcbs set up to lay out some 38 sp's, while the lee is ready to turn out a run of .303's this weekend. Were it not for lee products, I would not be loading anything but shotgun shells..

TheGrimReaper

12-12-2012, 12:02 PM

I love Lee dies and their moulds. I guess that makes me weird.

Linstrum

12-15-2012, 05:26 AM

I love Lee dies and their moulds. I guess that makes me weird.

Hey, TheGrimReaper, Weird? Maybe! But in my book it makes you an economical ammo RELOADER and a BOOLIT shooter, too! I've been using Lee stuff since about 1984 and I have never had any more problems than with other companies' stuff.

rl 1,166

waco

12-15-2012, 05:46 AM

I only have a few Lee products. I must say, I have had zero problems with any of them. Are there moulds my favorite? No. But they work, and they work well. For the money, Lee is hard, very hard to beat.

My buddy is just getting into casting, reloading. I suggested Lee everything to start with (to cut his teeth)
Price is right, and if he decides he is not that much into the whole process, he is not out a whole sh*# pile of cash.
Just my two cents.
Waco

rbuck351

12-15-2012, 09:56 AM

I have most of the popular brands of loading equiptment and have found Lee to make good stuff for the most part. I have several Lee molds and like the 6cav molds and the 2cav pistol molds. I have yet to get one of Lees nose rider rifle molds that has a nose big enough to ride anything but air. Would it be difficult to make a 309 mold that had a .300 nose instead of .298? My .338 mold is about .002 under on the nose as well. I have dies from Lee, RCBS, Redding, Lyman, C&H, Dillon, Hornady and maybe others and I like Lees as well as any. Thier primer pocket cleaner is cheesy but so is the lyman and the rcbs brush things. The Sinclair primer pocket uniformer is the best pocket cleaner I have seen. But they should be at $25 per size. I like the Lee hand press and have no problem sizing the largest cases (416Rem) with it. Sitting down I put my hands on the handles then between my knees so I can squeeze with arms and legs. I have a Lee hand primer and although I don't use it a lot, it has worked very well. I have never used Lees cast classic presses but they look very well built and if I didn't already have a Rockchucker I probably would get the Lee instead. Although some of Lees stuff is a bit cheesy I think Lee deserves an atta boy for making entry level stuff at a very low price to help get some of us less fortunate started in reloading. My first loader was a Lee hammer job in 12Ga. I still have it as well as some very fond memories of hunts that would not have happened had it not been for cheap shells for my Rem M10 pump. I used wads I picked up at the trap club and washed in moms clothes washer and bought reclaimed shot. A box of 12Ga reloads would cost about $1.50 What I find curious about Lees molds is that many cast smaller than they should. I would much rather have a mold that cast a bit large than a bit small as it's easy to size them down but not so easy to size them up although I am working on that. Sometimes you pay more for quality and sometimes you pay more for a name than it's worth. With Lee, sometimes you get quality for less and sometimes you don't.

Dan Cash

12-15-2012, 11:01 AM

hey lets start a new one on Dillon. I bought a 650 would I buy another?? NO

What do you want for it?

Bluetickhound

02-08-2013, 10:47 PM

I have been really satisfied with most all of my Lee equipment so far. The safety scale works well enough if you're willing to futz with it, same for the PPM... I have other manufacturer's equipment and I feel like I got my moneys worth but with Lee I always felt like I got MORE than my money's worth.

VHoward

02-09-2013, 12:26 AM

I do not care for either of Lee's progressive presses. I have tried both. Their single stage presses are great. The classic turret is fine. The safety scale is not fine. I almost exclusively use Lee dies except for a seating die in .357 magnum and one full length resizing die in .223. I have a Dillon Square Deal B that I load 9mm on (Dillon dies because the sdb will only use Dillon dies), A XL650 by dillon that I load .357 magnum and .223 on, a Lee Challenger Breechlock single stage (wore this out using it for something it wasn't designed for) and a Lee Classic Cast single stage (replacement for the challenger).

For the most part, I like Lee stuff. Just a few items I don't care for. I try Lee first. If I don't like it, I sell it and buy something else.

429421Cowboy

02-12-2013, 09:56 PM

I'm in about the same place as most here, there is some stuff you simply can't beat Lee for, and you get far more than your money's worth. A primer pocket cleaner for $2.50 that works just as good as a $19 RCBS, and i can chuck it up in a drill? Heck yes! That is a tool that is worth more to me than it cost, i think i got a good tool for the money. $5 to setup each of my rifle calibers to trim cases? Heck yes! I used the shell holders to spin the cases and clean with steel wool at the same time before i had a case cleaner, saved me well over $100 in case trimmer and tumbler. I have a couple Loaders, i think they are fun little jobbers and will let me load in school (well, not IN school, lol) when i am in an apartment away from my loading bench.
I do not care for the Breech Lock press, i have loaded alot of shells on my best friends, and i just prefer the smoother and more powerful stroke of my Rockchucker. Granted, he would not be able to have bought reloading gear if Lee didn't have the kit at the price point they do, and it loads just as good a shells as any, and i do like the Auto Prime system, i wish i could rig it onto my RC. Tha Classic Cast is a great press, and far above the Breech Lock in my eyes. The Safety scale is very sensitive, but not for me, too easy to bump off and kinda hard to read. Their casting tools, kits and moulds get alot of shooters into casting, and the push through sizing die is another example of a tool that is worth far more than what it costs, just based on money saved over a lube sizer.

Bottom line, I personally wouldn't go all Lee in my setup, and am not going to trade my RC for anything in this lifetime, however a Lee press would be just as welcome on my bench as a second press. I have RCBS, Lee, Lyman and Hornady tools in my kit, and that should tell you how i feel about brand preference! Yes, i love RCBS' customer service, when you buy a tool it is for life, but i think alot of their stuff is a bit crazy on the price. To be totally honest, i actually care the least for Hornady tools out of them all, but to each his own.
I am not a Lee fanatic that will spout off the latest thing Lee is trying to sell, but i will certainly look at their products first when i need something. I also am not going to instantly bash Lee as soon as they come up in a thread, generally its the guy behind the tool that has more to do with how it works! Same goes for shooting Taurus revolvers, spin fishing instead of fly fishing, driving a hybrid car, drinking lite beer, i am not gonna jump on anybody for it, because we all have our own reasons for everything that shouldn't have to be explained to anybody else.

1Shirt

02-15-2013, 04:14 PM

Lee is the Herters of today without George and his BS.
1Shirt!

EDG

02-15-2013, 06:26 PM

afish4570

02-16-2013, 01:38 AM

Some of Lee's innovations are nothing but being different to be different. I have NO idea what those moronic O ring lock rings are supposed to accomplish. If you have never used anything but Lee I guess you would find the stuff ok. I have been loading far longer than Lee has made reloading dies and I fail to appreciate some of their features. The factory crimp die is excellent. I am one of the longest users of the Lee hand primer tools - the one with the screw in shell holder.

I remembe wearing out the Lee HandPrime tool with the screw in shell holder too. I rebuilt it by fitting a piece of aluminum beer can on top the the "connecting rod" to increase the upward motion of the priming mechanism. I had worn it so bad the primers weren't being seated fully. Alittle auto chasiss grease on the moving parts occassionally kept it going for years...Alittle hint if you wish to try. Not sure if parts for this one are available any more.afish4570

ShootR

02-16-2013, 01:34 PM

My molds, melter, sizers, and dies are Lee. They all work great.

lightman

02-20-2013, 08:33 PM

I'm not a Lee fan, or a Lee basher. Most of my equipment is some other brand. Mostly RCBS, Redding, Dillon, or Sinclair. I have Lee trimmers for most all of my rifles. They work ok, no problems. My Lee universal decapping die is stronger than my much more expensive Sinclair die. Before I bought my Chargemaster, I used a powder trickler(?) and a set of Lee dippers for stick powder. I just started off with other brands, for no special reason. I've had few problems with any of my gear, and all were taken care of by the manufacturer. Lee owners do seem to be more defensive than others! 8-) Lightman

onehousecat

03-04-2013, 09:27 PM

People generally forget what they started reloading with, guess bashing Lee justifies buying the real expensive equipment. Also it has been my experience alot [not all] just enjoy complaining.

Rafe:drinks:

It is the memory of what I started out with that influences what I buy now. I've used (1) Hornady, (2)Lyman, (21) RCBS, (3) Redding, (1) set of Lee dies, and a RCBS press. When I started casting I went with a Star Lubrisizer because it was a push through, and everything else was RCBS. The only thing I have had to replace was the set of Lee dies. Truth forces me to admit that I have gone through four Lee auto prime bodies. Since the number of reloads I've made is in six digits, I freely admit I've gotten more than my money's worth out of them.

Seabee1960

03-06-2013, 01:03 AM

Two quick points from a dyed in the Wool SAECO/ Redding guy... The Lee Hand primer tool is a must have for any reloader and the .43 Mauser dies I bought from them off the shelf at Midway at 1/6 the price for RCBS dies were a godsend. Same with the collet dies for 8 X 57 Mauser. I have a nice little 88 GEW sporter with a .318 barrel. Take a $25 set of Lee dies, polish the mandrel in a drill motor and you saved youself a $125 and a 90 day wait for other .318 dies. The collet bullet crimper is a grand device.

nekshot

03-06-2013, 12:13 PM

I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring also. 40 some years ago I bought a lee hand loader and in a year I replaced it all with RCBS equipment and never looked back. Back then money was no object to me I simply got what I wanted. 10 years ago, a back broke in three areas no income for awhile, operations and all the money gone and now disabled, I thank God for Lee products that allow me now to still stay in the game! And give credit to them for upgrading their products for the little guys. And I agree their crimper is great for cast boolits.

Jay561

03-06-2013, 12:15 PM

I love Lees products. No problem with them for me.

Beesdad

03-06-2013, 01:35 PM

Most of my equipment is Lee... Works for me and now I am teaching my kids how to reload.

ukrifleman

03-06-2013, 02:20 PM

I load for 14 calibres, I use a Lee Classic Turret Press and all my other stuff is Lee except for 1 RCBS bullet mould for my Type 38 Arisaka.
I have to say, the RCBS mould produces great 140gn bullets but, it cost 3 times as much as any of my Lee bullet moulds, PLUS I had to purchase a set of handles for it (Lee) and the quality of the finished product is no better than the 6 Lee moulds I use. On top of this, the weight of an all steel mould and handles gets a bit much during a lengthy casting session. Give me Lee every time!
ukrifleman.

mdi

03-06-2013, 02:22 PM

Ever hear of "Tool Snobs"? I was a Heavy Duty Mechanic/Electrician for a large city for 25 years and saw first hand several "tool snobs". These are the guys that purchased tools based on price (highest), what tool company sponsored their favorite NASCAR or TV motorcycle builder, the flashiest/shiniest tools available, and rarely on plain fun****ionality. Any tool without "The Name" on it (Snap-on, MAC, Williams, etc.) was pure junk mainly because it is less costly and couldn't be any good (Craftsman, Proto, etc.). These tools were always kept clean and stored properly (some rarely used) and often kept visible for "show". Their tool boxes (small condos) could cost $6,000-$7,000, and most had a huge logo on them (candy apple red "Snap-On" in silver & gold or a picture of a chopper 5' long). Some of the toolboxes came with full stereo and even a micro-wave).

These are extremes but I see some of this thinking with reloading equipment. If it's not green (or blue) it couldn't possibly be any good. It doesn't cost as much as ____, so it's prolly junk. If it's the most expensive it's gotta be the best, right? My ____ is the best available ' cause that's what Joe Shooter from "Re-stuffin'" magazine uses. Read any reloading forum and you'll see this a lot, it is usually accompanied with severe "Lee Bashing" (the whipping boy of reloading equipment) and it doesn't have to be sensible or credible, 'cause it's often justified with "it's my opinion and I'm stickin' with it" kind of thinking/posting.

I'm not cheap when it comes to tools, I made my living with hand tools for mebbe 40 years, and was able to choose my tools on how they functioned/did the job as designed. I own Snap-On, MAC, even Craftsman and Harbor Freight hand tools just like I use RCBS, Lyman, Redding, Pacific, and yes even Lee reloading equipment 'cause they do the job they were intended to do...

sundog

03-06-2013, 04:09 PM

My loading bench is multicolored. That's all I have to say on the matter.

prs

03-06-2013, 05:19 PM

Sun Dog's bench is similar to mine (I bet his is not as messy). I have RCBS, Lyman/Ideal, Hornady, MEC, and some others; but mostly Lee. Three Lee presses that I use a lot. I have even mastered the Load Master so that is has no problems other lack of supplies right now. If all the loading tool supplies, save one, were going to have to close their doors and I was the one to choose the sole surivivor, I would choose Lee. On the other hand, I sure am glad we have choices.

prs

jmort

03-06-2013, 06:44 PM

"If all the loading tool supplies, save one, were going to have to close their doors and I was the one to choose the sole survivor, I would choose Lee."

Yes indeed. There is good reason Lee Precision is number one - best product for the least money. Made in USA family owned company. And a sponsor of this site.

RCE1

03-08-2013, 03:00 PM

I also have all kinds of stuff. I love my Lee hardness tester, Cast Classic Turret Press, press and priming shell holder sets and am satisfied with many of their dies. I hate their moulds and will not buy another.

destrux

03-13-2013, 02:13 PM

I probably wouldn't have gotten into reloading if it weren't for the price of the Lee stuff. I would have quit too if it weren't for discovering their powder scoops. I was weighing each charge cause I couldn't afford a decent powder measure as a kid. So tedious. I finally did get an rcbs measure, but I still keep my Lee scoops for small jobs so I don't have to set up the measure.

I've since bought much more expensive stuff, but I still prefer Lee dies over the other brands in the under $60 category.

VictimNoMore

03-13-2013, 05:35 PM

ACrowe25

03-13-2013, 08:50 PM

I definitely would have never entered the reloading hobby, if not for Lee products. They do the job at hand, and my ammo goes bang every time.
The Lee Turret press is hard to beat -in terms of price and speed, combined- for someone who learned initially on a single stage.
Lee products don't have to work my pride and/or ego; just the brass, powder and boolits.

I agree with you victim, I don't have all the money in the world to throw down on a Dillion and with Lee... it allowed me to "try" reloading before jumping in headfirst. I still enjoy my lee single stage and tbh don't want anything more. I load up a box in 30-45 minutes and enjoy every second. I don't shoot 1,000 rounds a week so a box here and there still keeps me loading more than I shoot if I load a couple times a week (which I do normally).

iomskp

03-13-2013, 10:08 PM

I too have a mix of reloading gear, my latest is a lee single stage press, it is a beast I do not think I could get a better press, well made and finished a credit to the maker.

jonp

03-16-2013, 06:48 AM

I started loading with a lee loader in 357mag for a Blackhawk I found used. H110,primers and a box of Down East boolits. Loaded thousands one at a time and still haven't worked up a more accurate load than one I found with the loader. I have a lee loader for every set of dies I have and keep a couple in my bugout bag. Without the well made and reasonably priced lee products I never would have started reloading.

8mmFan

03-25-2013, 01:06 AM

I'm another one who would never have gotten as far as I have into reloading if not for Richard Lee. All of my dies are Lee dies, and nearly all of my equipment is from Lee. I've eaten a lot of venison over the years, killed with ammo I built with Lee equipment.

For my money, Richard Lee is a genius and collectively the company is a manufacturing story Americans can point to with pride. I love Lee Precision. 8mmFan

PULSARNC

03-26-2013, 10:29 PM

If not for LEE I for one would prob not be casting The retirement budget only stretches so far and simply put I could not have afforded to get into casting if not for the Lee products .Does the high price stuff really do that much better job don't know maybee one day I will find out but for now I am more than satisfied with what I have .

Linstrum

03-27-2013, 01:05 PM

I have two Finnish m91/30 Mosin-Nagant rifles and a French MAS 36 rifle that are capable of under one minute of angle accuracy, and I get that accuracy using Lee equipment to cast and size the projectiles, and then load the cartridges. I can't improve on that accuracy using other brands of equipment.

rl 1,186

afish4570

03-29-2013, 12:37 AM

My melting pot has been going for 20yrs. and the 6 cav. molds make casting alot of good usable action pistol quality bullets quickly......just whipped up a batch of 60 # of 120 gr. TC and 175gr. FP. Would not beable to do it with my old lyman molds.afish4570;-)

Texantothecore

03-29-2013, 03:04 PM

Had it not been for Lee Precision I would never have begun reloading. When I finished totaling up the order for a die set and a Challenger Anniversary Kit I was stunned at the small amount of money required to start. Then I calculated the number of rounds (this was when ammo was cheap, btw) required to render the equipment free and it was 110 rounds.

I loaded the 110 rounds in my first load and my equipment has been free ever since that moment when the 110th round was removed from the shell holder.

I will always use Lee equipment for the following reasons:
1. It works.
2. They have replaced, at no cost to me, equipment that was lost in the mail.
3. I will be forever grateful for Lee making some darned fine equipment available to me at a cost that I could easily afford. My reloading office is full of red and will continue just that way. Period.

lmfd20

03-29-2013, 11:59 PM

Lee is where I started. I bought a single stage and a loadmaster at the same time. My next 8 sets of dies also came from lee. I have mixed in a few different green and red boxes since then. Not because they are better but because that is what was available when I needed it.

nightal

03-30-2013, 12:07 AM

I seem to be having trouble with my new Priming tool xr, the plastic lid keeps raising up while priming,causing primers to jam, or get upside down or on their side. i have taken it apart to many times to count, I spend more time working on it than it takes to prime the cases, can't prime 4-5 cases before the lid raises. when it does the primes get under the lid where it say's no primers????should I send it back? call them? I have only been able to prime 250 .45 cal cases.:x

jmort

03-30-2013, 12:10 AM

Since you have the shell holders, I would try and return it and get the New Ergo Prime. Otherwise, I would call them as the XRs can work just fine. Lee will make it right.

khmer6

03-30-2013, 12:12 AM

Let Lee know and they will make right. I received a new mold last friday, broke it on Sunday, let them know in mondays, just found the replacement part in my mailbox today

Cowboy T

03-30-2013, 01:36 PM

Lee's been good by me. Just check out my reloading videos, and you'll see it's pretty much all red. No, it ain't Cadillac gear (well, the Classic series is, but not the other ones), but it doesn't have to be. It's affordable. It works. It spits out great ammo, and if it's the Pro 1000, it spits out great ammo at high volume. It's affordable. It's pretty simple to work on and keep running. The stuff works.

Did I mention that it's affordable and works? :-)

Linstrum

03-30-2013, 08:34 PM

My reloading office is full of red and will continue just that way - - -

Gives new meaning to "office work". Who says you can't have a good time at the office!

rl 1,188

PS Paul

03-30-2013, 11:52 PM

So I'm kinda seein' a theme here. LOTS of us have been able to get into this game by the grace of Lee Precision...... I too started with a single-stage classic cast (that I STILL own and use) and NEVER would otherwise have been able to afford it otherwise.

Fast forward 30+ years and my favorite and most well-used is a classic turret by Lee.

I am in the sporting goods biz and used to work for a LARGE boating retailer. LOTS of elitist-type boaters malign, denegrate, despise, laugh at, marginalize and castigate Bayliner Boats and their owners as somehow "bottom of the rung" boaters. You know what? If not for Bayliner, MANY boaters would never have started either. So I just have to dismiss those who do the same and feel the same about Lee Precision. Be elitist all you want, but if it works for you AND allows tens of thousands to partake in this pursuit we all so much enjoy, we should be singing their praises and rejoicing in the miracle that is Lee Precision: the EVERYMAN'S RELOADING COMPANY!!

Hallelujah!!

Idaho Sharpshooter

03-31-2013, 01:42 AM

I started reloading in 1964. Lyman stuff, including pots, molds, sizers and presses. I gradually moved up to RCBS after I got out of the Army in 1971. About twenty-eight years ago I started IPSC shooting. A friend and I went in on an SDB in 45 acp. I don't know how many thousand rounds we loaded, but we had two full to the rim 3lb coffee cans and half of a third full of empty primers with zero malfunctions.

I've shot Benchrest, Schuetzen, and Cowboy Action over the years.

In the last twenty-five years I have NEVER!! had anyone admit to using Lee equipment at any match. I have, on the other hand owned eleven of the hand priming tools. All of them broke priming rifle brass at matches and at home before I gave up on them about 2000. I was on my fourth set of the punch-style depriming punches when they broke and I quit that.

From the appearance of every product, one would expect they were built in China.

In my experience, Lee products survive based on low cost. They appeal primarily to low volume reloaders, who have low level accuracy standards. I load 308 Win on one of my 550's. I have two because I am too old and lazy to switch the priming system from small to large and vice versa. My loads with good old 311332 shoot sub-moa out to 300yds out of my Savage 12BV-SS in that caliber.

Rich

I now await a barrage of responses from Lee press & die users who are consistently producing cast bullet loads in any caliber under 1moa at 100 yds.

jmort

03-31-2013, 01:57 AM

"From the appearance of every product, one would expect they were built in China"

Got to love categorical idiotic comments. Yes every single product. What are the highest rated single stage and turret presses on Midway USA? Hint, they appear to be made in China. There is a reason Lee Precision is number one. God Bless Richard Lee and Lee Precision for sponsoring this site.

PS Paul

03-31-2013, 02:31 AM

Well, it's like I stated. Maybe NOT for the benchrest crowd like sharpshooter says, but sure works like a charm for lots of the rest of us "regular shooters". Now I have loaded and shot tens of thousands of rounds over the years with a few presses. Not all Lee. but it seems a fact that those of us who started with Lee would not have been able to start at all and THAT fact makes 'em tops in my book.....

I could also make the "Zebco 33" analogy: MANY of us would never have started fishing or have been able to AFFORD fishing if not for the Zebco 33 reel.
and nowadays, just about ANY PRODUCT that can bring MORE folks to "our side of the fence" as shooters will also be held as esteemed by me. Separatist, elitist, "better than thou"positions taken by folks over products which help ALL AMERICANS partake in the shooting and reloading pursuits should be avoided, you know? Otjerwise, we don't stand divided...... we fall. That's all.

Lead Fred

03-31-2013, 02:48 AM

When I got back into reloading, I went to gun shows and bought the same stuff I used in the 60s.
All of Lee's "Perfect" line is pure Chinese garbage.
I have a brand new power drop, and scale I got from a trade, I can not give them away.
I put up 3 scales for sale. The 1966s Bonanza & Redding scales sold within days.
Still have the Lee stuff.

Cheap isnt good, its cheap, thats what China does, and some Americans are silly enough to buy the stuff

BCRider

03-31-2013, 03:29 AM

Well this is certainly a long run for a thread ! ! ! ! !

I've got a bunch of Lee stuff as well as a Dillon. For the basics I don't mind Lee presses. And their dies are decent and work. But when it comes to their progressive press setups I've got to say that they run mostly on good intentions. I've ran into a bunch of problems with my Lee Pro 1000 press that I was given a few years back. It's working decently reliably NOW. But only with a bunch of modifications done along the way.

In particular the "ski run" primer delivery system sucks the worst. I minimized the jams somewhat by fileing a couple of extra notches on the back of the plate support rod so the primer tray gets a couple of extra jiggles. But it still jams now and then with the large pistol primers when the primer plate is near to full with 100 primers. The "ski slope" also tends to work out of the shell plate holder. So I drilled and tapped for a set screw to lock it into place accurately on both the large and small primer shell plates I've got.

A dogleg shaped wire ejects the loaded rounds more reliably.

The auto index got me into more trouble than it was worth. I pulled the twisty shaft out and I index manually. Thus when the de-capping die invariably holds and re-positions the occasional spent primer back into the casing I can more easily deal with it.

I am still lured by the low cost of the Lee equipment and went looking at a Load Master on You Tube. What I found was a bunch of kludges to get the primers to feed better and some rather wizardly "how to's" on setting up the system so it would operate correctly. That was enough for me.

I went with the "blue" brand and I'm now a lot happier. Yes the Lee stuff can be made to work but not without a lot of tricks that we should not have to deal with.

I'm back to using the old Lee for the present as my Dillon is still in boxes in the garage while I get my basement dream shop renos finished. As it happens the Lee was on the edge of the massive pile so it got put back into service for the past year and a bit. But when I get my Dillon back out the Lee is going to be given to a buddy. And for all that I've fixed it up and got it working well with MANY mods I've had it. It's blue for me and I won't be going back.

ridurall

04-11-2013, 10:17 PM

For many years I was an RCBS snob and most of my equipment was green. Then I started cussing trying to use RCBS collet type trimmers and figured out that I just could not get an exact length every time with it without using a torque wrench. Then I turned to the Lee trimmers and from .223 to 50 BMG they are always the right length. I also had been using a loaned RCBS 50 BMG press for 3 years and the owner decided he was going to give reloading a try for his Barrett that the press came with. When I checked out the $579 price compared to the $215 price for a Lee 50 BMG press. I was worried that it would be made out of aluminum but when it arrived I was surprised to find out it was steel and I'm tickled pink with it. I do like my Lyman turret press for other calibers but the 50 BMG press is great for the Lee push through sizer also. I needed one sized .513 for my new 850 grain mold I just got today and my gunsmith friend turned my Lee .510 into what I need mighty quick. I have learned this evening that my Lee bottom pour ain't going to work for that big 3 bollit 850 grain mold. I'm going to have to hand dip them from now on.

jcwit

04-14-2013, 02:34 AM

In my experience, Lee products survive based on low cost. They appeal primarily to low volume reloaders, who have low level accuracy standards. I load 308 Win on one of my 550's. I have two because I am too old and lazy to switch the priming system from small to large and vice versa. My loads with good old 311332 shoot sub-moa out to 300yds out of my Savage 12BV-SS in that caliber.

With this logic the YUGO car that was imported would still be available and selling like hotcakes. After all it was just a rebranded Fiat.

jcwit

04-14-2013, 02:36 AM

jcwit

04-14-2013, 02:53 AM

In the last twenty-five years I have NEVER!! had anyone admit to using Lee equipment at any match. I have, on the other hand owned eleven of the hand priming tools. All of them broke priming rifle brass at matches and at home before I gave up on them about 2000. I was on my fourth set of the punch-style depriming punches when they broke and I quit that.

I reload .223 using Lee Loader dies and a Sinclair Arbor Press, I use a Lee Perfect powder measure to drop my powder charges, I use the old, old style Lee priming tools with the screw in shell holders.

I use Lake City brass dated 2001, Sierra Match King #1400 53 grain bullets, with 22 1/2 grains of Accurate 2015 powder, this load and equipment gives accuracy from my rifle, 1 hole 5 shot groups at just over .228 over all, providing the wind doesn't screw things up.

My loading is done in the same way as if I were using L.E. Wilson dies.

zuke

04-14-2013, 09:22 AM

jmort

04-14-2013, 09:33 AM

"All of Lee's "Perfect" line is pure Chinese garbage."

Another genius comment. Where do people get this nonsense? It's one thing to be completely wrong, as is this misstatement, but it is another to be purposefully or negligently ignorant. I believe RCBS for sure and possibly Lyman sell a few products "Made in China" Not Lee Precision. God Bless Lee Precision and Richard Lee and thanks to Lee Precision for sponsoring this site.

Ben

04-14-2013, 10:29 AM

" We are thankful to say Lee Precision products are cast, machined and assembled in the USA. "

John Lee, President

April 4, 2013

stocker1042

04-15-2013, 10:06 AM

I am just getting back into reloading. The first time I was in (2003ish) I had a basic Lee single stage press. I loaded 1000's of rounds on it. It got me into reloading for less than $250 with dies for several calibers and hooked me on the hobby. I had to get out of the hobby for a few years and now I'm back. The brand I'm most likely going to buy when they are back in stock? Lee turret press.

1hole

04-15-2013, 05:25 PM

"In my experience, Lee products survive based on low cost. They appeal primarily to low volume reloaders, who have low level accuracy standards."

I've been reloading for everything since '65 with virtually every brand of equipment made back then or since. I can say with personal knowledge that Lee's products do as well as any if they are chosen the task and used intelligently but nothing works well if it's used foolishly.

I bought two "pot metal" Lee Autoprimes in '87 because they were supposed to break easily. Neither has - yet - but there's still time I suppose; I think it's helped that my solution to difficult seating is to find out why and correct it rather than just pushing on the tool harder.. maybe??

It's worth noting, in laughter, that those who have no better judgement than to sneer at Lee's Challenger press because it's not cast iron probably need a cast iron press to survive misuse but Lee's Classic Cast is better designed and better made than any other press in it's class, at any price. It's RCBS/Hornady/Lyman that market Chinese reloading "junk" under their labels, not Lee. Anyone thinking paying more for reloading tools will automatically result in better accuracy has too little experience or understanding of tools in general to be listened to.

Anyone refusing to use Chinese stuff is probably going to be dismayed if they check the "made in" labels of their computer-printer-modem-router, CD-DVD player, camera, cell phone, most hand and power tools, nails-nuts-bolts-screws, kid's toys, kitchen utensils and gadgets, etc. Meaning it may stroke your ego to publically blast Chinese - or Lee - stuff as an "expert" but you really don't know what you're talking about.

gunshot98

04-15-2013, 09:48 PM

I started in the early 70's with the Lee Hand Loader. I loaded a BUNCH of 20 ga shotgun shell's. All these year's i've loaded with Lee and other brands and have not been disappointed in any of them. As of today i own 9 lee loaders and several others. As you can see i like variety. They all do certain things well.

Cowboy T

05-16-2014, 12:57 PM

Well, here's a real-world update re: the Pro 1000 progressive press. I've got two of these, one for small primer rounds, and one for large primer ones.

My small primer Pro 1000, which is set up for .38/357, now has just over 50,000 rounds on it. This is in about 5 years. The one part on it that broke was my fault, and Lee still sent me a replacement. Other than that, the press just pumps out .38 Special rounds without fussing. I comfortably do about 375 rounds/hour out of the thing, and that's measured over the full 60 minutes, with primer/powder/case restocks. At the rate I'm going, I should have over 100,000 on it by the year 2020. Yes, I do practice at the range quite regularly.

The other Pro 1000, set up for .44 Spl/Mag and .45 Colt, is also pretty much trouble-free. Out of that one, I get about 300 rounds/hour due to the greater surface area of brass going through the decapper/resizer die. On that one, I haven't yet broken any parts. It's got about 10,000 rounds on its meter, since I shoot a lot more .38 Spl than I do the bigger bores.

Just keep the primer chute clean, and remember to tap the primer tray every 4th or so load if need be to make sure primers are going down the chute. You do want the Pro 1000's primer chute to be full.

Are the Pro 1000's as solidly built as a Dillon RL-550B? No way, not even close. But do they really need to be?

The real question here, I think, is, "are the Lee presses good enough for the intended market?" Assuming the intended market is the hobbyist reloader like me, experience has shown me the answer is "yes".

I will continue regarding their moulds in the next post.

Cowboy T

05-16-2014, 01:20 PM

Now, regarding Lee's aluminum moulds. I use primarily the 6-cavity models. They're just that much faster than any 2-cavity mould I've ever seen. That cam-action sprue plate handle is a godsend. Every other mould maker should be using a similar design, because it works that well (pretty please, Miha? With sugar on top?).

My 358-105-SWC mould has about 40,000 boolits on its clock. Over time, in the fourth cavity, it's developed a nick. This is right where the 45-degree angled corner of the sprue plate runs across the mould; it's the 4th cavity. So, any boolits coming out of that cavity have a little spur on 'em. This also happened with another mould that I use a whole lot, the 452-200-RF. I use that one for .45 ACP and light .45 Colt. I don't know exactly how many boolits that mould has on it, but it's somewhere in the low 10,000 range. Again, the 4th cavity developed a nick where that sprue plate angle crosses over it, causing a spur on that cavity's boolits.

In all cases, the sizing die gets rid of that spur. Lee's sizing dies are, I gotta say, easy to use, and I do have time to let the tumble lube dry overnight. I usually lube a thousand or two boolits at once; takes about 5 minutes to both lube 'em and get 'em on the wax paper. Next day, they're dried and ready to go.

Given the price of Lee's moulds, I'd say I've definitely gotten my money's worth. A 6-cavity mould is right around $40 today, street price. Both moulds remain in regular use.

The Pro 4-20 downpour-spout casting pot, which is around $70 street price, also has served me well. I bought a second one just to speed things up even more. The original one did need cleaning after tens of thousands of booilts through its spout, no question (it eventually became a Leak-O-Matic). But after cleaning that spout, the Leak-O-Matic aspect went away. The new one, of course, has no such issue yet. The metal spout handle that the new ones have is heavier than the original wooden one and is probably helping keep that leakage issue to a minimum. I may get one for the "older" pot, too.

I've never used a Lyman or RCBS melting pot, so I don't have a basis for comparison. But I can say that Lee's pot is "good enough" for me to cast a whole lot of boolits with, which I have done. Lyman and RCBS ask $250 and up for their melting pots. I'm guessing that they're very good pots, too. But Lee made it affordable to even get started casting. Turns out their moulds and pots remain good enough for me to keep using them regularly, and I do.

Anything that can get more folks casting boolits is, as far as I'm concerned, a Good Thing. This is a right, not a privilege, and we need numbers. We need Lyman, RCBS, LBT, NOE, MiHec (especially MiHec!), Saeco, etc. And we also definitely need Lee.

Cowboy T

05-16-2014, 01:43 PM

And finally, the Loadmaster.

I bought a used Loadmaster from someone for about $120. This was complete with everything except the dies (even included the case collator). Had the recently updated, red-colored large primer chute assembly with it.

There's one major flaw, and it's with the priming mechanism. There's a little hole at the bottom of the primer chute that the priming ram goes through, to seat the primer. This is much like the Pro 1000's design. Unfortunately, on the Loadmaster, that hole's just a wee bit too small. This causes the priming ram to bind up against one side of that hole and not fully return to its bottom position. This is why you see about 1/3 of the shells with either sideways or upside-down primers. This is the source of the repeated claims of Loadmasters sucking monkey gonads. And it definitely is a problem.

After studying the issue, I found a fix. That hole in the primer chute needs to be milled/drilled out a bit to give the priming ram that extra room it needs. I did this with a 7/32" inch drill bit. The below picture shows the location where I did this (thumbnail is clickable). If the pic disappears, it's on the side where the "square" corner is.

http://t1.pixhost.org/thumbs/4677/21048245_lgprimertroughversion-wheretomill.jpg (http://www.pixhost.org/show/4677/21048245_lgprimertroughversion-wheretomill.jpg)

Now, the Loadmaster will put out about 250 rounds/minute of .45 ACP without fuss. Lee should make this modification in their injection-mould or whatever it is they use, to correct this at the factory. Seriously, this one mod turned the Loadmaster from a piece of you-know-what into a remarkably well-running press. The Pro 1000 is definitely faster, but the Loadmaster can do longer cartridges (e. g. .45-70 length) progressively.

There is one part that I can tell will be prone to wearing out after a while, and that's the plastic auto-indexer rocker piece. I don't foresee that happening for a few tens of thousands of rounds, but it will happen. Fortunately, it's a two-dollar part.

Also, you may occasionally need to retighten the round nut that keeps the shell plate held down. Over time, that can become a little loose, leading to primer feed actuation issues. Not a show-stopper, but just something to keep in mind. Takes maybe 3 seconds to hand-cinch it back down; don't make it Hulk Hogan-tight.

Is it a Hornady LnL AP? Heavens, no. Is it a Dillon XL-650? Not even close. Could it be "good enough" for the hobbyist reloader? I think so, with the aforementioned 7/32" hole diameter modification. I cannot say at this point that I'd use a Loadmaster for competition reloading, due to volume, but a hobbyist should be pretty well served by it.

enfieldphile

05-16-2014, 02:20 PM

Idaho Sharpshooter said, "In 25 years I have NEVER had anyone admit to using Lee equipment at any match!"

There are a lot of guys who won't admit to "after dark interludes" with big women either! ;)

I use Lee, Redding, Saeco, Hornady, Wilson, Forster, Lyman, Accurate, etc. I choose a tool based on how well it does the job, NOT on its brand name.

I have loaded tons of lead on a Lee Classic Cast turret press. It's still perfect. I don't like the Lee carbide crimp die, so I use a Redding Profile Crimp die. See? It's what works for the job. Whoever makes it, isn't important.

mac60

05-16-2014, 11:21 PM

For 4 months in 1993 Robert Frey held a 1000 yd. benchrest record (10 shots 4.076") in REGISTERED COMPETITION - with ammo loaded using Lee collet dies. In fairness to Idaho Sharpshooter, he said he never heard anybody admit to using Lee equipment at a match - not that nobody ever had.

dikman

05-22-2014, 06:55 PM

Interesting thread. Amazing how many people have had faulty/damaged bits replaced simply by contacting Lee, who then send it out. I have several Lee molds, plus a 4-20 pot (which works well, now that I've heavily modded it), but as they say you don't know how good a company is until you have a problem. My recent experience has shown that their customer relations could do with some work, and their "free" support of replacing faulty parts appears to be somewhat selective.

Don't get me wrong, their products are good value for money - as long as they do what they're supposed to and aren't faulty.

AlaskanGuy

05-22-2014, 07:16 PM

Well, let me say that I am a lee guy... My primary press is a lee classic turret.... I have a ton of lee molds, and a couple of lee single stage presses.... Only problems i have ever had was quickly replaced by lee when I followed their procedures for seeking replacement... I like lee stuff, but I am not an exclusive Lee guy... I have lyman, noe, rcbs, and about every other brand of reloading thingy that was made... But the majority of my gear is Lee... And when i wanna talk lee stuff to other lee folks, I joined Ranch Dogs Lee-loader.com ..... I have found lots of folks there that also speak "Lee-jonise" language.... Granted some of lee's stuff is like the scale and the measure have issues, but for somebody just starting out on a budget, they can be delt with....

I like lee, there, I said it... [smilie=s:

AG

Beagle333

05-22-2014, 07:37 PM

I like Lee. All of my pots and presses are Lee, as well as my scale and several sets of dies and whack-a-mole kits. Oh, and the shotshell loader. And several molds. and.... alright, I got some of it, okay?
I'd rather it be blue or green...... but due to budgetary constraints all of my own doing.... most of my stuff is red. :lovebooli

jbake3

05-22-2014, 09:55 PM

I am new to reloading and have mostly lee gear. My buddy bought all rcbs. While there are a few things lee makes, the chamfer tool for one, that arent so great the rest of the gear in my opinion is just as good as rcbs. In fact my lee powder measure throws more accurate loads than his rcbs. The only problem I have run into so far with any lee dies is with the .308 fld. I was resizing 7.62x51. No matter how much I adjusted die itnwould not push the shoulder back enough to chamber properly in a .308. I ended up buying a set of rcbs dies and they did the trick. Bottom line is lee products are just fine by me!

John Boy

05-22-2014, 11:48 PM

* Using close to 100 Lee molds, only 2 were bummers and one was a Big Lube custom one
* Haven't counted but maybe close to 30 Lee Die set
* All my rifle calibers are primed with the Auto Primer
* All my rifle calibers are loaded with the Perfect Powder Measure and a 3 Hole Turret press
* All BPCR brass is mouth expanded & compressed with the Lee Expansion Die & TOTW plugs
* All my bullets for multiple calibers are resized with the Lube/Sizer with many custom sizing dies
* Probably over 20,000 cases have been decapped with the Universal Die
* For 45 ACP & 45 Colt reloads on the Dillon 550B, the Lee Factory Carbide Crimping Die is what I use
* I borrowed a RCBS die set to seat & crimp H&G-68 bullets for the 45 ACP - the crimping sucked. Bought the Lee Die set and the rounds crimped to 0.01 and haven't had a failure to chamber round in my 1911 yet
Need I say more? Spent a lot of money on Lee equipment and am a satisfied user

MT Chambers

05-22-2014, 11:56 PM

So, to some it up, "all the complaining about Lee "precision""......is warranted.

DougGuy

05-23-2014, 12:17 AM

I used to b*tch about some of their stuff sometimes but I found out that with a lot of it, you just have to be mechanically inclined and tweak things here and there to get them running smoothly. I didn't like the priming setup on a new Load Master press, so I just hand prime where I can feel each primer better and check each one. The one thing I cannot get along with is the pro auto disk measure. Junk. My son made billet aluminum adjustable bars and I fitted them to the original auto disk measures and they work better than any other measure I have used. Again, just have to know how to tweak it..

David2011

05-25-2014, 03:35 PM

If I don’t own it or haven’t at least used it, I try not to offer an opinion- especially a negative opinion. Many “colors” are present in my reloading room.

I use Lee dippers all the time- when the RCBS Chargemaster drops .1-.2 too much, to dip out the excess.

The only real unsatisfactory-to-me item I’ve bought from Lee was the case chamfer tool. The dies, priming tool and other items work as expected. How much more can I ask?

I have their case trimmers in all of my rifle calibers and they work well. They’re much less aggravating than the Forster. Something happened to my first .223 trimmer and it started trimming too short by a few thousandths so I replaced it with another one. I think the shoulder of the case length gauge wore (cut away by the cutter) where the stem screws into the cutter. There isn’t much meat for the shoulder in the .22 caliber gauges and the shoulder stops against the cutting blades.

One of my favorite Lee tools is the Universal Decapping Die. I’m satisfied with all of the Lee dies I’ve purchased as well.

Their 6 cavity .401 TC mold is not one of my favorites. I haven’t been able to get a couple of the cavities to drop boolits easily and can cast about the same per hour with a steel 4 cavity Lyman that drops more easily. I usually remember it needs attention after it’s already hot.

A buddy shoots USPSA with an open class gun, several matches per month and loads every round on a Lee single stage press. I admire his patience. The nice Classic Cast Press has some appeal, especially with its primer handling and might be my next press purchase.

David

dudel

05-30-2014, 07:47 AM

If I don’t own it or haven’t at least used it, I try not to offer an opinion- especially a negative opinion. Many “colors” are present in my reloading room.

That's some great advice. Like David, my reloading room looks like a rainbow.

I have a number of Lee products, some that I kept and others that went away.

I REALLY LIKE their moulds, 4-20 pot, case collator (that I use to count cases), hardness tester, push through sizers, universal decapper, hand primer and Classic Loaders. I'm even in the minority of those who really like the Factory Carbide Crimp dies.

I like their dies (but they are not my favorite dies); the threaded body is sometimes a bit short for the 550b. The dies are a good values, but the free shell holder has less values for those of us that use progressives. I find the finish on the die bodies to be less than that on Hornady, Lyman, RCBS and Dillon (I've only found surface rust on the outside of Lee dies, never on the others). I like that they are one of the few who make a carbide 30 carbine die. The rifle collet dies are a great idea, nicely done. The classic cast press is nice; but I prefer my RCBS RockChucker (it just feels smoother).

I had (and got rid of) a Lee Classic Turret (a favorite of many here; but it just didn't work for me). The Perfect Powder Measure (was perfectly terrible with the powders I used). The Lee Chamfer tool and Lee Trimmers don't work as well as my Wilson tools. The Lee Safety Scale (sensitive enough; but a pain to get the setting). Works best if you set a target weight and trickle till you get the beam to zero; not so good for finding the weight of something in the pan.

I've kept more Lee stuff than I've given away; so I'll continue to consider them.

In summary, some real innovative ideas at Lee; some really spotty quality control and customer service issues.

jmort

05-30-2014, 10:03 AM

"I'm even in the minority of those who really like the Factory Carbide Crimp dies."

The Poll thread of members here has it 2/3 pro-FCD and 1/3 anti-FCD. So you are in the majority. Out in the world, it is popular and is highly rated by user/owners. On Midway USA it is one of the highest products you can find in any category, especially dies. It is the vocal minority here that get their panties in a twist if you mention the handgun FCD as it has the potential to swage down over SAAMI spec cast boolits. Obviously, if it is swaging-down your boolit, don't use it for that application. Simple and for reasons unknown to me, controversial.

dudel

05-30-2014, 10:43 AM

44Vaquero

06-06-2014, 07:01 PM

Jmortimer and dudel,

I really profess no opinion one way or the other on the value/utility of post sizing pistol rounds using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Some like it because it makes adjusting the seating depth easier or they feel aids in feeding a finicky autoloader etc. Having said that I have used it for .40 S&W without incident, with my .45 ACP I choose to use a TC only Die after seating. I think it's another tool to have in the cabinet/tool box if needed.

The one question that sticks out in the back of my mind was postulated by my Grandfather and goes something like this (I am paraphrasing) "Good God Man how on earth die we ever survive and manage to reload for the 50 years before Lee introduced the factory crimp die?" To date it's interesting to note I have never really heard a decent answer.

dragon813gt

06-06-2014, 07:43 PM

The one question that sticks out in the back of my mind was postulated by my Grandfather and goes something like this (I am paraphrasing) "Good God Man how on earth die we ever survive and manage to reload for the 50 years before Lee introduced the factory crimp die?" To date it's interesting to note I have never really heard a decent answer.
There is a reason that some refer to it as an answer to a question that was never asked. When it comes to anything there are always innovations that come along and people wonder how they got along w/out it. I'm not saying the FCD is that innovation. But there is a general precedent that's been established over the years.

dudel

06-09-2014, 09:09 AM

Jmortimer and dudel,

The one question that sticks out in the back of my mind was postulated by my Grandfather and goes something like this (I am paraphrasing) "Good God Man how on earth die we ever survive and manage to reload for the 50 years before Lee introduced the factory crimp die?" To date it's interesting to note I have never really heard a decent answer.

Well, commercial machines do provide a post sizing operation. See Camdex and AmmoMaster. I like them. I don't used oversized boolits, so I've never seen a problem from them. I do use it as a separate step in seat and crimp operations. If all is well, then nothing touches the sizing ring. If an unsized boolit got into my batch of sized ones, then I suspect there would be some contact (but I also know the round would chamber).

dikman

06-09-2014, 06:56 PM

Back on topic - twice now I have had what I consider poor responses from their "customer relations" people. Their products are fine - as long as you don't have problems.

Just sayin'......

Four-Sixty

06-10-2014, 08:00 AM

I too am of the mind that Lee makes a good product, most of the time. This year I bought a four die set that had two of one of the dies. I bought 2 three die sets that were missing the powder scoop. I bought a mold that was cut wrong. There is a noticeable gap on one corner, so one of the cavities is not useable as the sprue is not flush with the mold. I bought the reloader press and it was out of alignment making a scraping sound during part of the stroke.

I'll still buy Lee cause they're cheap, and I don't mind tinkering with them.

I like the FCD because if I can put a little more crimp on a bullet, then I "think" I can up the starting pressure and get better powder burn, and maybe a little more velocity with a little less powder. That is my hope anyway. I have not tested/proved my conjecture.

dikman

06-10-2014, 08:26 AM

I'll still buy Lee cause they're cheap, and I don't mind tinkering with them.

I agree, if the price is right I'm quite happy to work on things to improve them (but it's pretty hard to do much with an undersize, out-of-round mold as I do not have the equipment required for that little job).

dikman

09-24-2014, 08:20 PM

Just to add my latest "experience", I wrote to Mr. Lee about my problem, and after five weeks no response. It would seem, from what I've read, that in the "early" days he was very customer-oriented regarding ensuring they were satisfied with his products, but that no longer appears to be the case. I just wish I could have said otherwise.

jmort

09-24-2014, 09:00 PM

If you wrote to Richard Lee and not John Lee it would make sense that you got no response.

Garyshome

09-24-2014, 10:48 PM

No doubt Lee makes some nice stuff!

dikman

09-25-2014, 02:23 AM

I sent it to Mr. J Lee, President, Lee Precision.
Am I missing something here?:?:

44Vaquero

09-25-2014, 02:46 AM

dikman, go to Lee's web site and open a service ticket. http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Tickets/Submit/RenderForm/4 They generally respond within 24 to 36 hours during the week! We track their responses on our FB page regularly and to date not one persons request has been ignored. Include pictures too, it helps.

dikman

09-25-2014, 08:06 PM

Been there, done that......

dikman

09-27-2014, 12:52 AM

Just found a copy of the reloading book that Richard Lee wrote (2002 edition) that I didn't know I had. Very interesting reading and well-written, but more importantly it gives an insight into Richard Lee's thinking processes and ideals when he created Lee Inc.
Methinks Lee jr. doesn't quite share the same ideals as Lee sr.

jmort

09-27-2014, 01:00 AM

You may not be able to call them from out of country. I just call and they answer/respond. To me, in all my dealings with them, they just seem like real good people.

shoot-n-lead

09-27-2014, 01:55 AM

Never had them to give me anything. ALWAYS had to pay and have been robbed for shipping.

dikman

09-27-2014, 08:20 AM

jmortimer, I've gathered from your various posts on the subject that you think highly of Lee and have been, shall I say, supportive of them and their customer service. Nothing wrong with that when you get good service, and you obviously have.

What I found really galling, reading Richard Lee's book, is that on the subject of his molds he is very proud of them and their accuracy, compared to his competitors. He says that they are guaranteed round to within .0001", and in the case of black powder no more than .003" undersize - not exactly what I've ended up with. I suspect that if I was dealing with Richard Lee, rather than John Lee, I wouldn't have anything to complain about.

HangFireW8

09-27-2014, 08:52 AM

dikman

09-27-2014, 08:43 PM

That's fine if you're in the US, I'm not. It's going to cost me about AU$16 to send back a $20 mold.

dieselrealtor

10-20-2014, 04:16 PM

I started with a LCT, considering moving up to a Dillon but have no plans to get rid of the LCT. The Lee products I own outperform my expectations for the price I paid. Will be ordering some molds soon.

Good Cheer

10-22-2014, 09:41 PM

dikman

10-23-2014, 04:52 AM

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Richard Lee obviously built up a successful company by providing pretty good quality equipment at reasonable prices, and apparently put the customer first. As long as the company continues with the same quality and pricing structure they will sell their products irrespective of John Lee's attitude towards customers. Most customer complaints/problems appear to be dealt with fairly efficiently, but when the odd problem (like me) comes along they can just ignore it. After all, what can I do about it? Not much, and they know it.

But I still think that not having the decency to respond to a customer's letter is an exercise in rudeness and arrogance.

wrecksj

10-23-2014, 09:15 AM

A couple of comments...

My first loading tool was a Lee Loader for .25-20 back in 1972 for $9.95.

I still have it and it shows no appreciable wear.

I still use it for neck sizing my .25-20 because it provides perfect neck sizing WITHOUT working the case body. I cannot get any of my other press dies to avoid working the case head. If I screw them out to avoid case head impact, I only get 40%-60% neck sizing which, in my opinion, does not provide enough neck tension for loading the rounds in a lever magazine.

Of the dies, I have some RCBS, some Hornady, and many Lee. I always gravitate to the Lee option because I have found them to have fewer burrs inside - just smoother overall. I like the one piece decapper expander, which just works smoother overall for me.

I have at least one Lee Factory Crimp Die for all the calibers I reload. If I could get them to make a collet sizing die for .25-20, I would be complete.

Most practical, efficient, excellent quality and best price/performance for my reloading dollar. I suggest that you try the products and and judge for yourself in the product lines that Lee competes in.

I would suggest that the folks who complain are only trying to self-justify their own actions in spending excessive money for the same product with a "name" marketing plan.

Bob Busetti

10-26-2014, 11:00 PM

Nothing but trouble with Lee"s shell holder for the 43 Spanish. Likes to break the rim off the shell holder. RCBS works fine.

luvmy40

11-21-2016, 04:14 PM

Thought I'd resurrect this old dog!

I just picked up Lee Load Fast progressive shotshell loader on the cheap. Just a whim buy as I have no need for another 12ga loader. After putzing around with it and getting it working I called Lee Precision to see if there were any parts still available for it. (the press was discontinued in 1997 so I wasn't holding my breath). I spent about 5 minutes on the phone describing what I needed and gave my call back info to the nice women with a thick Yooper accent(I love that accent!). As promised, she called me back after about 1/2 hour with a list of parts still available and those that are interchangeable with the Load All. For a grand total of $12.00 + shipping, I am getting everything I need to refurbish the press.

I have to say that I have loaded my shotshell needs on MEC equipment since I started loading and never even looked at Lee in this capacity as I had no want for a single stage loader in 12ga and did not know Lee ever made a progressive shotshell press until I saw this one at a gun show.

I have loaded all my metallic cartridges on Lee equipment since I started loading. I started on their 3 station turret for pistol and Breach Lock Challenger for my rifle loads. Moved up to the Classic Turret, then to the Pro10000 and now run the Load master for all my pistol and .223 rounds.

I've never had any real issues with any of the Lee presses. All have their individual quirks and needed some tweaking to perfect but they all did what they are designed to do at a great price.

Most of my dies are Lee with a couple exceptions. Both of the exceptions are the only dies I've ever had any issues with. My RCBS .223 FLR gets cases stuck regardless of lube brand or method. and my CH Tool and Die .30-40 Krag FLR scratches the case at the vent every time.

I do load consistent sub MOA (my best groups are 1/2moa at 300 yards but usually around 3/4moa) cartridges for my .308 with Lee dies and the Challenger single stage press. I use an Ohaus 10-10 scale and a Hornady powder trickler in conjunction with my Lee PPM for these precision loads.

All of my molds are Lee, not that I have a lot. Two 6 cavity TL451-230-2R, one 6 cavity TL35-125 2R and one 2 cavity TL309-230 5R molds. All have worked well for me though my production numbers are probably considered low by most here. A couple thousand annually on the 9mm maybe double that in .45 and a couple hundred a year for the .30-40 all with Lee's Pro melting pot. Aside from having to clean the valve seat and plunger once in a while, it has given me no problems either.

Lee's new Auto Drum powder drop seems to be a home run so far. Very consistent, easy to set up and the quick change drums are so convenient.

I guess you would have to call me a Lee addict because If I had to get rid of my Lee gear, I'd quit hand loading and casting. No way could I justify the cost of Dillon or Hornady products(the the Hornady L-N-L ammo plant might be the one exception).

I have everything I need to load 9mm, .45acp, .380, .32 acp, .223, .308, .30-40 Krag, .243 win, .30-30 and .30-06 with the pistol calibers and .223 set up with dedicated powder measures in quick change tool heads for less $ than the base model Dillon press capable of the same work and it all works well.

EDG

11-23-2016, 03:46 AM

Most Lee dies work fine for a box of ammo now and then. Not all work properly though. I have somewhere around 15 sets of Lee dies and most work ok but none of them are my first choice. I bought those 15 sets to investigate Lee dies. I also have many, many dies by RCBS, Forster, CH, Lyman, Redding, Herters, Eagle, Krupp (same as Herters).
Lee sells some dies that are incorrect dimensionally and does nothing to correct the problem. I can understand a mistake in manufacturing but an engineering mistake by the professionals in a company and the refusal to take corrective action is not excusable.
One of these problem dies is the FL sizer for the 7.65 Argentine Mauser. The die body is too long from the case head to the shoulder datum by .010. I have 4 rifles to verify this against. I have seen numerous other complaints about this issue posted by other hand loaders. RCBS dies work perfect. Lyman dies also work for this round.
Lee also made the dies for the 7.5X54 French MAS wrong. They size the body of the case about .006 to.008 too much on the diameters. As a result the cases lengthen rapidly. RCBS dies work fine for the MAS rifles. Neither of their dies produce cases sized to match the standards published by CIP. RCBS dies size cases to match the rifle chambers. Lee just shrugs their shoulders when asked about these *****s.

Most practical, efficient, excellent quality and best price/performance for my reloading dollar. I suggest that you try the products and and judge for yourself in the product lines that Lee competes in.

I would suggest that the folks who complain are only trying to self-justify their own actions in spending excessive money for the same product with a "name" marketing plan.

mdi

11-23-2016, 02:09 PM

Thought I'd resurrect this old dog! Why? Lee haters ain't gonna change their mind, no matter how many "success stories" they read. Lee fans will just keep on reloading (even with 19 year old dies) regardless of how much the haters whine...

1bluehorse

11-23-2016, 09:54 PM

Why? Lee haters ain't gonna change their mind, no matter how many "success stories" they read. Lee fans will just keep on reloading (even with 19 year old dies) regardless of how much the haters whine...

And this is the type reply you get if you critique anything Lee with a less than a positive review. You're either a "whiner", or "hater", Lee "basher" or to stupid to use it correctly. I have a LOT of Lee equipment on my reloading bench that I like, that's why it's there. But I've also had Lee equipment that didn't meet MY expectations/needs for one reason or another. Any more if I find a Lee product that falls into this category, I just dump it and keep my opinion to myself. Tired of being insulted by the reloading "left"...

omgb

11-23-2016, 10:06 PM

I have lots of equipment from lots of manufacturers dating back in some cases over 100 years. Lee stuff is hit or miss just like everyone's. That's the truth. Their molds are an excellent value for the price. The dies are pretty good too usually. I can't stand their Rube Goldburg progressive presses. Some things should never be made of plastic but hey, the Green and Blue guys make that mistake too. Lee responded very favorably to my request for classroom learning materials so although some of their stuff is sketchy I think they are stand up people.

jmorris

11-23-2016, 10:23 PM

I can't stand their Rube Goldburg progressive presses.

When you get one so it will load 100 rounds in under 4 minutes, you do feel like you accomplished quote a goal, though.

1bluehorse

11-23-2016, 10:37 PM

When you get one so it will load 100 rounds in under 4 minutes, you do feel like you accomplished quote a goal, though.

I've seen the pic's of the one you "worked over". Amazing stuff you did there. I have two of them myself and am pretty pleased with their performance...now...

omgb

11-23-2016, 10:43 PM

Indeed one does. Honestly, none of the progressives are free fro burps and frustratingbobbles

jmorris

11-24-2016, 11:57 AM

No, at some point everything will give you trouble. Although some presses are closer to a sleeping baby than a teenager testing his luck.

mdi

11-24-2016, 01:40 PM

Tired of being insulted by the reloading "left"... Now that's an insult! :mrgreen: Perhaps you're tired of hearing replies to tool snobs, probably as much as I'm tired of those who are "superior craftsmen/reloaders" ranting and won't accept anything but the absolute best; $$$$ (by their definition). I am a lifelong machinist/mechanic and I've seen tool snobs at their best ($7,000.00 tool boxes, $125.00 1/2" wrench, purchasing tools by name only and superior attitude; "I won't dirty my hands on any cheap Craftsman tool" [or insert MAC, Proto, etc.]). There are many, many reloading tool snobs that post Lee bashing on forums, and either they rant about one out of a million bad tools (some they only heard about and not experienced) or they failed to use the Lee tool as intended. Lee is like any modern manufacturer, they will on occasion ship a "bad" tool, as will RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, and yes even Sinclair, but the Lee haters condemn every tool produced by that company as "cheap, worthless, and a total waste of money and time and go out of their way to tell the world their opinion. Many, many of the anti-Lee rants are very easily explained (like read the instructions, which I personally experienced with a new Lee priming tool) which I think only ticks off the tool snob...

If you find a "bad" Lee tool but don't post a rant about it, you are probably not a Lee hater, just a reloader that found a defective tool, but if you do rant about the entire tool line and how you are insulted by having one in your possession, you are probably a Lee Hater...

OS OK

11-24-2016, 02:09 PM

I never saw a dead horse get beaten longer or harder than the old horse named Lee... :bigsmyl2:

PS Paul

11-24-2016, 03:04 PM

I have many colors on my bench, but red gets used more than most of the others....

psweigle

11-24-2016, 03:28 PM

Heck, I still use the old lee loaders. Great for passing the time at camp. Got a lee Classic turret press, collet dies in all the rifle calibers I load, factory crimp dies, the lee breechlock challenger press, the auto-prime II, all 3 sets of the dippers(red black and yellow), plus numerous sets of dies. All my molds and sizers are lee.
I also have rcbs dies, a jr3 press, scale, uniflow powder measure, and assortment of tools that I wouldn't have it they weren't given to me. I love the scale and uniflow. The dies are as good as my lee dies, and the press is perfect for the auto-prime II. I have had to replace pieces and parts on both brands and have had no issues with either companies customer service.

salpal48

11-24-2016, 05:05 PM

I really have No opinion. I do use Lee Dies. .
Many younger Loader Grew up on Lee equipment. That all They Know or want to know. I grew up. on Lyman, Herters Lachmiller Easton and Other. That's all I want to Know

mdi

11-27-2016, 12:57 PM

I never saw a dead horse get beaten longer or harder than the old horse named Lee... :bigsmyl2:

Lee is getting a lot of free advertising...:mrgreen:

W.R.Buchanan

11-28-2016, 07:08 PM

Yes this horse has been beaten to death. I just ordered a Lee mould for .40 S&W boolits. Bet it will work just fine. I also use lots of Lee dies, in fact if it is a caliber new to me and it is available form Lee that's where I go. If they don't make it then I go to Ebay.

I grew up with tool snobs, but I haven't been a fan of Snap On since the 60's. Just picked up a box with Snap On Wrenches in it at Costco the other night. Made in China. Put it right back down.

I refuse to pay Snap On Prices for stuff I can buy at HF for 1/10th the cost.

As far as Sinclair, the purveyor of the finest Reloading Tools made, They rejected my BPM Hand Press with the disclaimer that "it didn't fit into their Product Line."

Instead they are taking on the "Lee Line of Tools" so that they can compete directly with 50 other outfits who already sell the stuff.

Makes a lot of sense huh?

However on one hand you could say since they are renown for only selling the best,,, then Lee somehow qualifies,,, and thus Lee Haters Suck Wang. On the other hand the fact that they didn't want my tool means they suck wang!

If you are only buying tools based on Brand Name you are simply wasting money.

If you are buying them as an investment you should realize that there is very little resale value in Reloading tools, just look on Ebay. A typical set of New Redding Dies from Sinclair is $180+, used ones on Ebay run around $30-50.

Randy

kmw1954

11-30-2016, 03:31 PM

Wow, I just spent almost 3 hrs reading this whole thread. Very interesting comments.

kenyerian

11-30-2016, 03:38 PM

kmw1954

11-30-2016, 04:50 PM

Well let's see, sent a Auto Drum measure back to them on Monday, received email from them this morning, received another email from them this afternoon that a replacement has been shipped with tracking number. Guess their SC/Product support really does suck!

cainttype

11-30-2016, 05:24 PM

"You get what you pay for."... In the highly competitive market of reloading equipment, that old saying is generally very accurate.
Any company out-pricing the value of it's products (including customer service) is a company that will NOT survive very long, or develop a high demand for any limited production runs.
I've used products from many manufacturers of reloading equipment for 40+ years, including LEE, products from most current makers and many long gone... NONE have had as many issues as LEE products in either design or poor qualty control.

That said, LEE does offer an inexpensive alternative to help someone get into reloading. And "YES", some of their products work well... well enough that even seasoned reloaders find enough value in them to keep them on hand.
The ONLY reason higher priced equipment manufacturers survive is because many experienced reloaders are willing to pay 3 and 4 times (at least) the intial cost for bullet molds, presses, etc. because they value the higher quality of those products that much... It isn't rocket science.

kmw1954

11-30-2016, 05:57 PM

"You get what you pay for."... ... It isn't rocket science.

And I have purchased some very high end electronics, auto parts and non gun related parts from high end companies tat have been junk. Some high end electronics that have even arrived DOA.
Seems I also remember in my life time a number of Rockets exploding upon launch. So you don't always get what you pay for!

mold maker

11-30-2016, 06:35 PM

Maven

11-30-2016, 07:13 PM

cainttype

11-30-2016, 10:25 PM

I will accept the responsibility of rescuing you from the dreaded LEE scourge. Just send all those wasted purchases to me for quiet disposal. I promise not to publicly embarrass you by telling the world you got suckered.

I've used various LEE offerings for over 40 years. Some products work fine, some are pretty unique and offer a nice option, and some are JUNK. No reputable reloading equipment maker has worse quaity control, allowing so many defective units out.

I use some LEE products with total satisfaction, but usually it's because I don't expect them to deliver an item comparable to another vender's offering that cost a lot more.
My last LEE mould purchase was 2 different 8MM in their "New" styles, since I'd long ago stopped using their old designs. One mould was useable, but the other was so misaligned as to be totally useless... Quite frankly, a 50% **** ratio is pitiful.

Luckily I had purchased them from Mid-South, and they have always been very helpful.
When asked about returning or refunding, I explained that I had ordered the mould hoping for a good one and would have preferred the mould but I didn't want to chance another reject.
The good people at Mid-South offered to inspect the replacement before shipping, so I agreed. A week later a "good" mould arrived, and gave me the chance to try a different design... So all turned out OK.

If LEE's products were "as good" as their higher priced competitors, LEE would have put everyone else out of business decades ago with their low cost... The truth is they are cheap. That's it... That's the "secret" to LEE's on-going existence.
It isn't rocket science.

No Blue

11-30-2016, 10:31 PM

Sinclair's is going to sell Lee? One of their paper catalogs appeared in my mailbox a couple of years ago, only Lee was the original hand primer, the special shell holders it uses, and the universal depriming die.

Leafing thru that catalog I can see why a lot of you peeps would be leery of Lee; all the rest of the goods were at least triple what Lee charges, and some four or five times more. And yet they do the same function.

I never had lots of money to waste, so I managed to figure out the best value when I did pull the wallet out. Most of the time.

It takes some research and knowledge about what it costs to make various items; so if I see something that has $1 of material, 5 minutes of machine time, if that, to make it, and they want $50+ for it; I know I'm getting stroked.

There used to be a relationship between cost of production and retail cost, but that seems to have disappeared over the last 20 years and it's crazy pricing and see which fools that believe 'you get what you pay for' will bite....if you understand cost of production, you'll know when it's a 'too good to be true' of a deal.

Or when you're getting stroked...

M-Tecs

11-30-2016, 11:01 PM

Through the years I have tried numerous Lee products. Some I have been very happy with initially but after extensive use they just didn't hold up as well as RCBS, Dillon or Redding products. Some of the Lee product got returned or sold after the first use. I have a fair number of Lee six cavity molds. For the most part they work well but they will not last as long as a mold made from 2024 AL.

I want to like the Lee Collet neck dies but after 4K or 5K in start having issues with them.

Other than cheap limited use molds or power dippers I don't foresee purchasing anymore Lee products.

EDG

11-30-2016, 11:02 PM

You can make general statements about knowing the cost of production but you probably do not know the cost of overhead, shipping and mark up. If you think you are paying too much you may be buying a product from a union shop in what is known as a "high cost region". The northeast and the west coast of the US are both known as high cost regions. You will note the high prices from Redding may have something to do with the labor market in New York.

Want something cheap? You can get it cheap. That does not mean the engineering is any good. The cost of the engineering only appears in the overhead. It is not part of the cost of raw material or cost of touch labor.

There is a direct connection between cost of manufacturing and retail cost and you have to factor in the lot size.
You can get a good deal on anyone's 30-30 dies but you cannot get a good deal on .505 Gibbs because they are not built in large quantity. It is no more expensive to make a set of 505 Gibbs dies from the cost or material or labor stand point. The cost of setting up for a new run of dies gets allocated over a smaller lot size of dies and drives the cost up. Modern shops organized to minimize set up labor can produce smaller lots at better prices while maintaining their profit level.
Even though the die companies organize dies into groups for purposes of pricing they undoubtedly do not make exactly the same profit on every set of dies. Many manufacturers sell products that serve to fill out their product lines to keep customers from going to another brand. These line fillers don't always make money.
I am sure they make money on 45-70 dies and make next to nothing on .416 Remington or .416 Rigby dies. It is all about volume versus the cost of set up.

Sinclair's is going to sell Lee? One of their paper catalogs appeared in my mailbox a couple of years ago, only Lee was the original hand primer, the special shell holders it uses, and the universal depriming die.

Leafing thru that catalog I can see why a lot of you peeps would be leery of Lee; all the rest of the goods were at least triple what Lee charges, and some four or five times more. And yet they do the same function.

I never had lots of money to waste, so I managed to figure out the best value when I did pull the wallet out. Most of the time.

It takes some research and knowledge about what it costs to make various items; so if I see something that has $1 of material, 5 minutes of machine time, if that, to make it, and they want $50+ for it; I know I'm getting stroked.

There used to be a relationship between cost of production and retail cost, but that seems to have disappeared over the last 20 years and it's crazy pricing and see which fools that believe 'you get what you pay for' will bite....if you understand cost of production, you'll know when it's a 'too good to be true' of a deal.

Or when you're getting stroked...

EDG

11-30-2016, 11:18 PM

Do you really want junk that does not work? I bet you would not even pay the postage much less pay what I paid for it. Now who is the sucker?

I will accept the responsibility of rescuing you from the dreaded LEE scourge. Just send all those wasted purchases to me for quiet disposal. I promise not to publicly embarrass you by telling the world you got suckered.

dragon813gt

11-30-2016, 11:22 PM

shoot-n-lead

12-01-2016, 01:49 AM

This is all very simple. Use whatever brand you want. You can find turds in every manufacturers catalog. Let's not pretend that RCBS hasn't turned out some poorly designed presses. You can discuss how it happens more often w/ Lee until everyone is blue in the face. It all boils down to use whatever brand you want. Bickering on the internet about it won't change anyone's opinion.

Bingo!

I have a RCBS hand priming tool that came out of box...a mess. I needed it, so I set about hand fitting about half of the parts to get it to work...still doesn't work to my satisfaction...not worth arguing more with RCBS about it...BUT, I won't buy another one.

With that said, I have had some real junk from Lee...not the least of which was a Pro 1000.

I use some Lee stuff, still, but I really prefer to buy used quality reloading tools rather than buy new Lee.

kmw1954

12-01-2016, 02:50 AM

Maybe I should start a list of things I've purchased over the years that turn out to be less than I expected.
Front loading washer/dryer, $3000.00+. Had to call for repair after 1 year
Oven, 5 years old, replaced igniter twice
Shallow well jet pump, have replaced twice in 6 years, well check valve have replace 8 times in 6 years
Coffee makers, lost count
Cell phones, lost count
Laptops, 3 in the last 5 years

Now the Big One, Hospital stays. 3 in the past 12 months for chest pain. 1 visit received a heart stent, 2 other stays with heart cath's were they didn't find anything! I'm not going to even state what those 3 visits cost as one even included a Flight for Life ride.

Yet you all will argue here and all the other forums I visit for an eternity which reloading equipment is junk and which is the greatest. This thread has already been going on for 5 years and has proved nothing.

Vinne

12-01-2016, 03:20 AM

luvmy40, you made a good choice. I've been playing with my Load Fast and it has been a joy to work. I have a Load All for many years now and like you didn't know about Lee's 12ga autoloader till recently. You have to mind it more carefully but it will do just as good a job as the Load All only faster. If I want to try a different load I start with the Load All then can switch over to crank em out with the Load Fast. Once you get going, you don't want to stop.

No Blue

12-01-2016, 03:05 PM

You can make general statements about knowing the cost of production but you probably do not know the cost of overhead, shipping and mark up. If you think you are paying too much you may be buying a product from a union shop in what is known as a "high cost region". The northeast and the west coast of the US are both known as high cost regions. You will note the high prices from Redding may have something to do with the labor market in New York.

Want something cheap? You can get it cheap. That does not mean the engineering is any good. The cost of the engineering only appears in the overhead. It is not part of the cost of raw material or cost of touch labor.

There is a direct connection between cost of manufacturing and retail cost and you have to factor in the lot size.
You can get a good deal on anyone's 30-30 dies but you cannot get a good deal on .505 Gibbs because they are not built in large quantity. It is no more expensive to make a set of 505 Gibbs dies from the cost or material or labor stand point. The cost of setting up for a new run of dies gets allocated over a smaller lot size of dies and drives the cost up. Modern shops organized to minimize set up labor can produce smaller lots at better prices while maintaining their profit level.
Even though the die companies organize dies into groups for purposes of pricing they undoubtedly do not make exactly the same profit on every set of dies. Many manufacturers sell products that serve to fill out their product lines to keep customers from going to another brand. These line fillers don't always make money.
I am sure they make money on 45-70 dies and make next to nothing on .416 Remington or .416 Rigby dies. It is all about volume versus the cost of set up.

I agree, there are some special considerations as to what eventually comes out as to retail pricing, but the day to day, 90% of the market, it's material cost, labor, and direct overhead.

Kind of like the difference between Apple and all the PC computers; Apple makes a 40%+ profit and most of the PC makers are lucky to make 8%. They both do the same function, but for various reasons, Apple is able to get the 'get what you pay for' crowd. None of the computer companies make any of the hardware, it's all supplied by the same group of vendors. It's only the software that is different. But it's 5 times more profit; richest company by far.

Every vendor on the planet wants the 'you get what you pay for' crowd; that's where the massive profits lie....not for me. I like for my money to stretch.

You might have different priorities....

cainttype

12-01-2016, 04:29 PM

Every vendor on the planet wants the 'you get what you pay for' crowd; that's where the massive profits lie....not for me. I like for my money to stretch.

You might have different priorities....

If your point here is that LEE is cheap, and you would rather not spend more money for better equipment, you'll find little disagreement from the "You get what you pay for" crowd.
If your trying to convince people that know better that LEE is "Just as good as...", you're never going to gain any ground.

I've clearly stated several times that not everything LEE offers is junk, but they survive mainly by selling cheap products at cheap prices.

Since this is a casting site, let's consider a simple hypothetical...
You go to an estate sale where you find two brand new double cavity moulds with identical cavities, each priced at $20. One is a LEE, the other is (NOE, Accurate, MP, Mountain Moulds, or LBT... take your pick).
You can only leave with one... Which one do you take???

If you left the LEE every time, you understand that LEE's moulds are NOT "as good as (insert name here)".
If you took the LEE, even once, you made a poor, uninformed choice.

kmw1954

12-01-2016, 05:52 PM

Since this is a casting site, let's consider a simple hypothetical...
You go to an estate sale where you find two brand new double cavity moulds with identical cavities, each priced at $20. One is a LEE, the other is (NOE, Accurate, MP, Mountain Moulds, or LBT... take your pick).
You can only leave with one... Which one do you take???

Now that is a fair and valid comparison.

What gets me going in all of these topic threads, anywhere, is when people insist on comparing the Lee Pro 1000 to a Dillon 450 or 550 and then call the Lee junk. Those 2 presses are not even in the same level. I would group the Pro 1000 with the Dillon SD with the Dillon still being superior in some ways but not others. The 450 and 550 are kind of in a class by themselves only because they have to be manually indexed. Then I would group the Dillon 650, Hornady LNL and the Lee LoadMaster in the same group and ranked in the order I have them listed. Does Dillon even make a turret press, or a single stage press?

I have only used Lee and RCBS pistol dies and honestly I cannot tell a difference in operation or performance. I would not buy or use a Lee balance scale. Who besides Lee makes and sells Powder dippers? I don't cast yet so I have no opinion or experience with molds, pots or ladles.

5 years and 248 posts later after reading this whole thread I'd seen hardly any mention of either the Hornady or RCBS progressive presses. Wonder why that is?

kmrra

12-01-2016, 06:09 PM

This a Email That I sent Lee last night:

I received my Lee 4-20 lead pot from Natches today and it was damaged, It had to come damaged from Lee because the Box that it was in is in pristine condition, no Damage what so ever. all my loading gear is Lee stuff, along with the pot I also ordered over 200 dollars worth of stuff that was also Lee Molds and sizing dies.....The damage to the pot is as follows , Valve arm assy was bent , I got that fixed, the 2 EL3444 # 6 shoulder bolts were bent ,one broke the other is bent . and the The FE3463 carriage bolt for the Valve Knob was bent at a 90 degree position, I fixed that also .......I need the two shoulder bolts EL3444 replaced . I dont want to have to pay to get new parts I will make them first since it brand new I think thats all but fair . Like I said all my stuff I Lee stuff . The pot works Great It doesnt leak like they say in the reviews , I dont want to have to write a bad review just because of a couple of parts , But I will if I have to . I have read the warranty thing telling me to do this and do that and pay with a credit card, not going to do that either , just put a couple of those 10 cent parts in an envelope and send them to the above address and I will go out of my way and give a good review for this product
Thanks for your consideration ........

I recived a response today and they are sending parts out at no charge, I wasnt about to pay their shipping charge like they say in their Warranty page.