Co Ax and the 2 Step Dance

[milprileb]

Among other presses, I have the Forster (aka Bonanza if you are that old) Co Ax press. It has great leverage and it has some really irritating characteristics that grow on me.

The handle is too long for pistol loading and while they make a handle that is shorter (or you can fabricate one), its a PITA to punch out the roll pin and change out handles. Some sort of screw ought to be there so you can change out handle lenghts.

Secondly, to operate the long handle when loading rifle ammo, you got to step back two steps to the rear as you pull the handle toward you and step up 2 steps to return handle to full upright position. Or you can stand sideways to press and pull handle in a arc down and up which is still not very user friendly.

After awhile that gets kinda old. Also, they offer a short handle with ball grip but the long handle has a bicycle grip. Ball handle is far more comfortable.

This is a long snivel but I really think some solution can be applied to take the awkwardness out of handle arc, lenght and design and make this press perform more ergonomically. I called Forster on this and got a YAWN. They are a good company but innovation is not setting the world afire there on product improvements.

Anyhow, I decided to flog myself about the Co Ax.

[zxcvbob]

I have a newer CoAx; its too-long handle is held in place with a set screw instead of a roll pin. I have a piece of 3/4" wooden dowel, I wonder if a short piece of that with a wooden ball on the end would make a nice pistol-reloading handle?

[milprileb]

Set screw eh? I will pulse Forster for that.

I don't know about most folks but I find a ball handle superior to a bicycle handle for comfort and range of motion. Its second to roller handles in speed and comfort. RCBS at one time had a shovel kind of handle that rolled in hand for one of their bigger presses about ten or so years ago.

[odis]

Sounds like you should be listening too some good Tango music while you reload.

[milprileb]

odis... maybe that is right, I usually listen to Meat Loaf and may be off step !

[1hole]

The excellant old /odd Bonanza/Forster Coax has ergonomics that turn me off too.

I'd have one as an extra IF I could get it for maybe $30, otherwise I'll stick to a conventional press design.

[canyon-ghost]

It's the same with older Rockchuckers, bicycle grip. If you call RCBS though, they ship the new ball handle to you for free. Then again, Rockchucker is an entirely different press from Forester. I love RCBS' customer service, they are the greatest I've seen.

[milprileb]

I forgot to say that one of the issues I have is beyond range of motion, its comfort with aging joints and some arthritis. Anything I can do to make a press work easier on the old arms and shoulder would be the ticket.

[PacMan]

I completely remove the handle to reload pistol ammo.
Some like them some dont. I do.

[1in9twist]

No more 2 step.

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3817.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3824.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3829.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3820.jpg

This offset lever is identical in height to the factory lever, but kicks out 5" to allow you to stand in one spot to operate your press. The first horizontal surface also serves as a short\quick lever as well. Design also works well for lefties.

Or

Factory height roller lever.
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3840.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3845.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3847.jpg

Or a cute lil stubby 6" version. (No wisecracks)
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3853.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp206/1in9twist/Co%20Ax/IMG_3856.jpg

The handles can be swapped out in a heartbeat if desired with a quick pin. (Supplied)

Thoughts? Questions? Floggings?? :mrgreen:

[milprileb]

Nearly choked on the coffee this morning seeking those photos. Gets my
blood up it does. The roller beats that D handle shovel type RCBS handle
put out years ago which I was thinking had some merit but would not
take out the 2 step entirely and this roller bent handle will.

I amthinking that longer handle has that first bend which one could
use for grabbing and using for pistol loading, and not have to use the
roller at all for the short cases. However that little stubby handle kind of
sank that idea right away.

Would something like this work for my Lyman 4500 lubrisizer ?

Email inbound

[Bret4207]

It's funny, but I don't recall having to dance with my Co-Ax or having any issues with pistol ammo. I have 4 presses permanently attached to the bench and they all have their quirks, maybe it's bench height that is causing some of this? Mine are up quite high.

[bbqncigars]

I've always used my Co-Ax on my short bench (converted desk), and sit to one side. For most cases I grab the handle just over the yoke and it's just a flip of the wrist to work the press. Why complicate things if you can avoid it?

[milprileb]

Bret, how high is your bench and how high above that do you have presses set up?

Do you stand or sit when using press?

[canyon-ghost]

If you get the chance to pick up a used Rockchucker, I'm sure you'd like the leverage. They have considerable mechanical advantage, love mine.

[milprileb]

Canyon Ghost: a Rock Chucker with a roller handle angled forward like on that site Inlinefabrication.com might be the perfect solution to max leverage for case forming which I don't dare do on my Co Ax as I don't think it will take the pressures.

[canyon-ghost]

When it comes to case forming, a Rockchucker can crush brass. I use Alberto VO5 hairdressing gel, has lanolin, for case lube. I credit that idea to Ed Harris, believe it or not, it's real slick for brass. Only takes a tiny dab for 100 cases.

I reform 223 to 7mmTCU sometimes, no big deal.

My way of making the press easier is #0000 steel wool to polish the ram. I use it lightly in conjuction with cleaning the ram with Rem Oil or Kano Kroil (whatever penetrating oil is on hand). I wipe it down after that with tee shirt cloth and lube with a heavier oil and choke tube lube(graphite). I can make them pretty slick.

[milprileb]

Jezzzzz, I was using Imperial Sizing lube for case forming. I better get some
hairdressing gel. I will ask my daughter to find it, I sure ain't going to any store
and ask for such an item.

[canyon-ghost]

It's an old guy thing, comes in a tube. Remember Fonzi on Happy Days' greasy hair? Yup.

Now you got me laughing, Ed Harris says his tube lasts about 10 years (he's bald nowdays), consider that! Roflmao!

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/3rdshooter/contenders/22Hornetcases005.jpg

It's traditionally a man's product anyway.

[LUBEDUDE]

As I read the OP, Inline Fabrication came to mind instantly.

Way to go Dan!

[Bret4207]

Bret, how high is your bench and how high above that do you have presses set up?

Do you stand or sit when using press?

The bench is about 45" high, the presses mounted to the top at that height and I stand for all reloading/casting operations. Could just be the angle I stand at and the way I have things set up. I imagine there's an awful lot of variation in the way we all do things. I would never, ever cast while sitting for example. Others would never, ever stand to cast.

[quasi]

that offset co-ax handle with roller looks like a great idea.

[Sonnypie]

There is a VERY pissed off brass monkey out there.
I use a Co-Ax for 30-06 reloading. I do depriming, neck sizing with a collet die, and seating on it. Mostly sitting down.
I looked in my drawer of odds-n-ends for driving and such and had a nice billet of .750 round brass bar.
A little spinny-spinny with various grits, and any brass monkey would be envious....

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny%27s/PB120374.JPG

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny%27s/PB120375.JPG

And so far, I have not found any reason to switch back to the longer handle.

[odis]

There is a VERY pissed off brass monkey out there.
I use a Co-Ax for 30-06 reloading. I do depriming, neck sizing with a collet die, and seating on it. Mostly sitting down.
I looked in my drawer of odds-n-ends for driving and such and had a nice billet of .750 round brass bar.
A little spinny-spinny with various grits, and any brass monkey would be envious....

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny%27s/PB120374.JPG

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny%27s/PB120375.JPG

And so far, I have not found any reason to switch back to the longer handle.I think it looks great, your bench makes mine look like a .... a well a big mess which it is.

[milprileb]

Impressive handle, great innovation.
Short handle does say a lot about the leverage of the press.
That hunk of brass has weight to it and must enhance
the leverage a bit on the down stroke.

[Bret4207]

Out of curiosity I tried all my presses yesterday. I do the same small "dance" with each- a slight shifting of my weight to the left and then back to the right as I run the handle down and then back to the left as I lift it. It's the same for the Co-Ax, RCBS RS, Lee Challenger, Lyman All American and Spar-T. I also note I shift my hand on the lever of all of them through the stroke.

Whatever, I'm sure OSHA would find something wrong with all the presses!

[milprileb]

Bret, I think , on my part, its got a lot to do with older age and ranges of motion
that are tolerable or not. The Co Ax has become a bit distracting so I am into a major
handle change of some sort. Not a press I can sit on stool and operate.

That all said, maybe OSHA will determine I am the one that needs to be replaced.

I don't have any issues running my Dillon 650 with the roller handle and I am eying such
a handle for my Rock Chucker press.

Of course, all of this is in the Elective category, the factory handles all work the presses and its more of convenience over necessity for most folks. However, a change to a roller handle on my Co Ax just might make it more user friendly and I am going to buy into that.

There probably is not a perfect press or handle combination but I admit, I chase rainbows to seek the ultimate press for some reason. The Co Ax was such a purchase after 30 yrs of wondering about it.

[ronbo]

Have had my coax for almost 40 years but have never liked the handle grip. Yesterday I shortened the factory steel handle a little and attached a wooden ball dolls head from a craft store for $2 to the end of the handle.

http://i44.tinypic.com/207w4ec.jpg

[zxcvbob]

I bought a 2" wooden ball from the craft store and a 3/4" oak dowel to make a short handle. Already drilled a hole in the ball, but then I found a broken sprue cutter handle from a Lee 6-hole boolit mold. (the cast steel part snapped when I tried to cut the sprues when the mold was cold, I'm sure nobody else here has ever done that...)

Anyway, the handled looked about the right size, so I measured it and it's pretty much perfect. I cut it off just below the ferrule and it's a tight fit in the Co-Ax handle socket. It looks about like a wooden version of Sonny's brass monkey, and it's already stained and lacquered. I can take that dowel back to Home Depot, and I still have the original long steel handle if I ever need it for sizing military .30-06 brass, etc.

So if *you* have a broken Lee sprue handle in your junk bin, now you've got a use for it :)

[Sonnypie]

Out of curiosity I tried all my presses yesterday. I do the same small "dance" with each- a slight shifting of my weight to the left and then back to the right as I run the handle down and then back to the left as I lift it. It's the same for the Co-Ax, RCBS RS, Lee Challenger, Lyman All American and Spar-T. I also note I shift my hand on the lever of all of them through the stroke.

Whatever, I'm sure OSHA would find something wrong with all the presses!

Yep.
They make big bucks with video tapes to get the girls to do what we do naturally in our loading rooms. :grin:

[Sonnypie]

Impressive handle, great innovation.
Short handle does say a lot about the leverage of the press.
That hunk of brass has weight to it and must enhance
the leverage a bit on the down stroke.

Just a chunk of rod I had, that happened to be the right diameter.
Sometimes I'm just luckier than I have a right to be.
It does seem to work fine for me.

I didn't like the throw of the original handle. I found myself choking up on it. So the shorter handle was a quick change for the better.
I have 3 functions for the press:
1. Decap for cleaning.
2. Neck sizing.
3. Bullet seating.

I tried the priming feature, but still prefer to hand prime with one of my Lee primer tools. :roll: The round tray type. Yep, I'm old fashioned. :lol:

I didn't throw away the original handle though....

[milprileb]

(the cast steel part snapped
when I tried to cut the sprues when the mold was cold, I'm sure nobody else here
has ever done that...)

Reaching down into my box of broken things which were engineered to break in the hands of an idiot, I just happen to have such a handle.

However, that little roller stubby handle sure looks sweet. I am going to try the roller handle longer version for Co Ax model and convert my RCBS rock chucker to a roller handle. I hope this will make things easier on my wrist which lets me know long strings of FL sizing 30 caliber brass on the rock chucker is not welcomed. Old age creeping in my joints makes the purchases a worthwhile objective.

The broke off Lee mold handle will serve for short handle till I evaluate all these rollers. I may go the dolls head on dowel approach or the stubby roller approach if the Lee handle is found wanting.

I get little wrist drama and don;t have to move about when I use the roller handle on my Dillon 650. I guess I lucked out on handle , bench height and arc movement as this situation works very well for me. I hope I can replicate this with roller handles for Co Ax and RC. I will say this, for me the roller handle on the Dillon is pure joy to use. Every time I crank that handle, its one of those satisfying things of "Oh yeah", this is the way to go sort of sensation.

[flashhole]

Interesting mods, shows where there is a will there is a way. Personally, I did not like the ergonomics of the Co-Ax press at all and don't miss not having it on the bench. The brass monkey dong is nice though.

[gefiltephish]

I have some of Latesmith's roller handles on my star and LCCT. Maybe he'd make some up for the Co-Ax? That said, one thing to consider is that they do add to the overall width of the press, if your bench is already crowded this could be an issue for you. I have t-bolt tracks embedded in the full length of my bench, so I can slide tools whichever way I need at any given time, or easily remove what's not needed.

[milprileb]

How about a roller handle for Lyman 450 / 4500 lubrisizer ? Any love there to be gained ?