My"Trouble" with my BT Sniper Bullets

[heliman]

My first post. See how it goes. First off I live in Alberta and if it wasn't for you Americans we would never have any of this. No one up here has even heard of swaging. So thank you. I recieved my BT dies last week and I have to say if everyone was as obliging as Brian is, commerce in this world would be GREAT. He went above and beyond. Thanks again. Before any more, I have to say that my only "trouble" is that these bullets are way to pretty to shoot! I'm not going over what others have said to date but would like to add some of my observations as a starting swager. No one seems to have talked about time involved in the making of these little gems, not that it matters, but for interest sake. I trimed 500 cases using an arrow cut off saw that I had. Took an hour. Defineatly better to cut first. Annealed using what we call a tiger torch, big propane thing, which took 1/2 hour. I use stainless tumblers with TSP and Lemon Shine for 15 min. They come out better than new. I loaded them up in my Dillon 650 and ran them through the expander. A little slower than normal because some hang up on the ejector but still got them done in 45 min. Core seated 100 in 10 min. Same for the notch die. Couldn't use the progresive because the bases fit inside the cases so they won't feed. Took about 10 min to point form. I figure about 1 hour a 100, and anouther 10 min for casting a 100 cores, which is great when you consider jacketed hollow points cost close to $40/100 up here in the frozen North. I tried using Dillon lube but I found it was not quite good enough. If I used Brians on every 5th one it worked OK. Thats all I have to say about that for now except I'm having a blast! Hope I can post a few pics.
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http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eebf56b7ec1c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3041)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eebf59578453.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3042)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eebf5c144d1d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3043)

[frank martinez]

Outstanding. Good to see that the rest of us beginners have a chance.
Frank

[BT Sniper]

Congrats on the successful first post, pics and all, and a big your welcome! Seeing you guys have sucess like this right from the get go is very rewarding and certainly makes the extra effort worth it on my part. Yes they do look great and even better loaded :) ! Don't be shy to use plenty of lube. Every 5th one sounds a bit sparse to me. Maybe every other at the least. Anhydrous lanolin is cheap!

As for giving hope and a chance to all beginner swagers out there..... well, I'm here to help as much as I can.

I still consider the 45cal from 40S&W brass to be one of the more challenging bullets to make, wait till you see how fast you can make 40 cal bullets from 9mm brass !!!!!

Good shooting and Swage On!

Thanks for your support,

BT

[DukeInFlorida]

heliman,

Welcome to the forum, and to the wonderful world of swaging your projectiles.

Your experience with trimming, assembling, etc, isn't unique. However, I promise you that you will come up with some methods, using your tools and techniques, which will greatly speed up the process.

You're way ahead of where most of us were when we first started swaging the .40's........... you were smart enough to buy the notching set up. Brian should have given you (and I presume that he did, as part of the notchin kit) the expander for the brass. It doubles as the way to also seat the core. I set mine up in a single station press, and run the expander/seating top punch (installed in the notching housing) into the brass to open it up, retract and drop in a core, and press it home with the same tool in a second motion with the same tool while the brass is still in the shell holder. Saves a lot of time that way!

I am using a manual trimming tool, with the power driver insert in place of the crank handle, and trim the brass very fast that way! Much faster than cutting from the side with a saw. I'm saving up to buy an after market chamferring cutter for the trimmer, which will chamfer inside and outside while I trim to length. That will also save a LOT of time.

Once swaged, I also run all the projectiles through my CH4D cannelure tool, which I got through Brian. I found it necessary to do that to prevent setback in the powerful 44 mags I also swage. But since I got the cannelure tool, I am running a cannelure around all swaged bullets. That way, I have a nice cannelure to crimp the case into. Makes for a better grip, and the powder seems to burn better. Without the cannelure, I was getting the same result that I would otherwise get with jacketed bullets with too loose a crimp.

I'm currently looking for a way to speed up the cannelure process, since I hate having to lean on the lever an rotate the handle. Would love a power version of the cannelure machine.

So, congrats and welcome to the forum. Hope that you won't be a stranger.

[BT Sniper]

I'm not sure the expander mandrel will produce desirable results when used to seat the core when making the 45cal from 40S&W brass. Since we are using a 158 grain .358 mold for the core and we need to smash it flat while expanding the base of the 40 S&W from .425 to .445 all in one step, the core seat die is the best tool for the job.

Heliman has a 40 cal die coming next and he'll get to see how easy the 40 cal bullet is to form from the 9mm where we can use the expander mandrel to push the core to the bottom of the case then notch it, but for the 45s........ we need that core seat die for best results.

here is the 45 cal seated core next to the .358 158 grain cast boolit
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060591.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060585.jpg




Here is a 40 cal 9mm case with a 120 grain .356 cast boolit seated with the expander mandrel, by the way heliman, you can complete these steps and have your jackets notched and core seated ready to be formed when your 40 cal die arrives.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060582.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060583.jpg

[heliman]

I never thought about getting the .40's ready ahead of time. Good idea. When I notch as deep as your picture, BT, I can't seem to get it into the sizing die. Is it easier in the .40? Also will a 124 boolit work for the core are does it have to be 120?

[BT Sniper]

Yep, just notch enough for your personal prefrence or as much as you can and still be able to get the case into the point forming die. If you can't get the notched jacket into the point form die you've gone to far :) . Measure and check, see how much you can get away with. If you kept the diameter of the biggest part of the notch to under final bullet diameter you will have no problems. Typically we can get away with a bit more but don't go to extreem trying to use the point form die to bring the notched portion back down in size.

Your 45s look perfect. To get the bullet jacket to fracture along the notches takes very little notch at all. Matter of fact I have had succes with notches so small you could barily see them. So our long, awesome notch is purely for looks and to allow use to shorten the overall length of the bullet a bit.

The 124 grain mold will work just fine in teh 9mm case for a 40 cal bullet. I like the 120 better but yes the 124 makes great bullets too.

[cgtreml]

Welcome to the madness. A little of topic but what is the beautiful 1911 doing in Canada? Just a little confused.

Chris

[heliman]

They do let us have nice guns up here, too! Just a few more hoops to jump through. The real shame is they won't let us use them for anything but punching paper. By the way, that Kimber Gold Match is the most accurate gun I have. I tried some of my new swaged bullets out. The felt recoil is slightly more than my cast boolits, probably due to them being slightly longer. No signs of over pressure. I don't think they are quite as accurate as the cast but it could be that I was paying more attention to the shooting as to the hitting. Still grouped under 4" at 20 yards free hand. I had one hang up in the ramp but it was one that the lead was back a bit and had sharp edges. Loaded on top of 4.5 gr of Titegroup. All and all very happy with them wich is good because I just finished 500 of them!

[a.squibload]

Oh great, another BT victim! Nice lookin JHPs.
You guys keep making me want that notch die,
maybe Sandy Claws will bring me one...

[BT Sniper]

I'm working on a simple insert for the universal die that will roll the tip of the jacket inword to aid in any potential feeding issues. Seems the 45 is a bit more likely to catch on the tip of the bullet.

Glad the shooting is going well for you. 500 bullets ready to load AWESOME! Yes another victim :)

I'll keep you all posted on the new insert for the universal die.

It will make the tip look more like this, standard 500 cal on left and new tips on right.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060606.jpg

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[miestro_jerry]

Where in Alberta? I used to live outside of Calgary, many years ago. Had no problem shooting, but then again there is a lot of open space in Alberta.

Jerry

[heliman]

I live in Red Deer. We have a couple of good ranges, one indoors, but you aren't allowed to legally discharge a handgun outside of a registered gun range though you can get a permit to carry if you work or trap/guide in the bush where there may be bears.
Here is a couple more pictures. One of the set up I use for trimming and one of 550 beauties ready for the bench!:bigsmyl2:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eef522d1bcdb.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3066)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eef533d25c6d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3067)

[BT Sniper]

I like the trimer and of course the pile of bullets looks awesome!

Very simple and easy design with the trimer, reminds me of a meat slicer and I imagine it must work in the same way. Quick and easy, nice thinking!

Swage On!

BT

[zuke]

I live in Red Deer. We have a couple of good ranges, one indoors, but you aren't allowed to legally discharge a handgun outside of a registered gun range though you can get a permit to carry if you work or trap/guide in the bush where there may be bears.
Here is a couple more pictures. One of the set up I use for trimming and one of 550 beauties ready for the bench!:bigsmyl2:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eef522d1bcdb.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3066)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_211024eef533d25c6d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3067)

What kinda blade do you have on the grinder?
Where did you pick it up?
Great idea!

[a.squibload]

Did you use a router to cut that slot?
I imagine it needs to be a tight fit.
I got the Lyman trimmer and the Harbor Freight
mini-saw, they are not compatible.
The trimmer chuck is just too big for the little chopsaw.
Haven't devoted any more time to it but thanks
for the ideas, I like the shorter jackets.

PS: I lube every bullet, very lightly.

[BT Sniper]

I first thought router out a slide too, but it looks like it is simply a flat edge bumped up against another flat edge. Good to go!

Thumbs up to Heliman for a bit of simple thought process.

Swage On!

BT

[heliman]

They are small metal cutoff wheels I got at the local hardware store. The holes were slightly small so just drilled them out. I cut the dado on my table saw slightly undersized and sanded the upright for a tight fit. You can't see it but there is another board on the flat, screwed to the upright, to insure everything stays true. Screw a shell holder at the appropriate height and you are good to go. Rub a little soap or wax in the dado so thing slide smooth and you can run close to 1000/hour through it. You need to wipe the brass dust out every so often. I found that the brass cut better before annealing. Also, I put the brass in my stainless tumbler, after annealing, without chamfering and all the burrs were removed. Only 3 in 500 needed anything, which is great 'cause I hate that job. I lubed all the cases with Dillon lanolin spray lube but found that after it dried the cases hung up a bit but hitting every 5th case with Brians lube wetted things up and kept everyting moving along.

[zuke]

Thank Ya!