Is it possible to design a more ugly revolver!!!!

[rbertalotto]

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=as8kgedab&v=001KvOA9nYSxsoh9ZZ88UodqF3JiVDsAIn2PebB1QqvxpdZX nrch1s2zX80d4-5LABIIBSIkBsC9iE9JknQouQlktNeYc967_gcxk3qcGVjQ16-EdCxOjYiSbPbCDUIYjXbEUTQqgg1oKLIZ5LkBd0ZpSaaWCTxVK 9mIK-XfV7UNHv0gWaGkHpsrw%3D%3D

Rugers new LCR in 22RF

https://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs019/1102873718336/img/383.jpg

http://https://origin.ih.constantcontact.com/fs019/1102873718336/img/381.jpg

[Love Life]

Yes. It is called the Rino.

[Olevern]

Ever looked at a Nagant?

[Wheeler]

I think the Rino wins the ugly award.

[Matt3357]

Yeah the Rino is by far much uglier. Then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The Rino is the biggest leap in revolver design in a long time. And I hear they are pretty accurate.

Matt

[Walt]

The Brits can sure make an ugly revolver! Some Webleys are better than others but there ain't none of them pretty.:)

[x101airborne]

IMO, all that is going to do is encourage someone to carry a 22 instead of a proper caliber for personal defence. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to get shot with a 22 and a 22 deployed well is better than a slingshot, BUT.... I wonder the wisdom behind this move.

[Olevern]

I think I'll stick with my S&W models 18 and K-22 - now there was some good lookin parents involved there, on both the smith and wesson sides.

[Matt3357]

airborne,

I was thinking the same thing when I saw this post. I have read stories about some women that just are down right scared and stubborn about larger, harder to handle cartriges for self defense. It would be a last choice, but still a choice none the less. Unfortunately, a choice I don't get to make regardless of what I want to carry living in the great communist state of IL.

Matt

[bearcove]

I saw a LCR at the gun shop today. It was ugly but not cheap! Just glanced but I think it was $435.

[Snyd]

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/img_1432-tfb.jpg

http://bigstickcombat.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/chiappa-rhino-front-380x433.jpg

[Matthew 25]

uhh, yep. the rhino is exceedingly unattractive.

[BCall]

I just don't understand Ruger. The new SP101 .22 looks nice, seems like a good way to go. But this? I don't see the use, other than practice, which I think would be better served with light loads from one in 38. They won't do a 5 shot 480 Blackhawk, but they will do this?

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Now if the Rino looked more like this:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=643&pictureid=4644

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=643&pictureid=4645

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=643&pictureid=4646


Mateba Automatic Revolver

The Rino seems to be a Non-Auto version of a Mateba.

The Rino just needs to be offered in a a full size version with choice of 4" and 6" barrels in calibers .357,.44, and .45ACP/45AR Everyone say Mmmmmmmto the latter choice.:grin:

Without the Auto mechanism it should cost waaaay less than a Mateba.

Plus it wouldn't be quite so :???: funky lookin', and I'd have one... Provided they don't up and Polygonal rifle the thing.


Not sure who took the pictures, but I like 'em.


The Ruger kinda grows on you after a bit.

[MtGun44]

Come on. Read the Ruger report. They have customers (who don't reload, I'm sure) that want
to upgrade their skills when .38 Spl ammo is extemely expensive, so they want a training
gun just like their carry gun, but with cheap ammo. If you have a LCR .38 Spl for carry, this is
like a .22 conversion unit on a Colt, or a .22 conv in an AR-15.

Makes perfect sense to me all around.

Bill

[Russel Nash]

When does the recall start?

[161]

I have to admit when they came out I held one for a few minutes, put it down never to be interested again. But I'd like to shoot the LCR .22. If it goes bang 8 times in a row all the time every time it has a place for CCW.

[BossHoss]

The women in my family carry the LCR 38, with a ballistic shoot through purse.

No prob for them, as they are all firearm enthusiasts, shooter, hunters.

The main goal was to find a load that wasn't harsh. Easy enough.

The .22 version is likely only for the timid, in which case, they may not be ready for carry, imo. Now if they were acclimated to centerfire calibers, had no prob shooting them, and THEN they wanted the .22,,....OK.

But , if the only way someone will shoot a handgun, or entertain carrying one, is if it is the .22 .....maybe they should re-think the whole carry thing. Timid, scared, apprehensive, hesitant, talked into it, .....not someone who should be carrying. It is an accident, or a bad incident getting worse, waiting to happen. Pepper spray on keychain, Tae Kwon Do classes, or a large dog, would be better protection choices for such a person. Just my honest, informed opinion from experience.

I too live in the Pariah State Illinois. Won't stop anyone I love from protecting themselves, and those family members that live north in WI, now have their permits.

I or my family members, would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six. No Person in IL has ever gone to prison for protecting themselves. The DA might try, but a jury won't convict a righteous citizen who was genuinely protecting themselves.

[Jim]

Boss, I did a Google search for 'ballistic shoot through purse' and couldn't find anything. Can you help me out with a link?

Thanks,
Jim

[357shooter]

I've gotta admit to liking the quirky LCR look. Definately unique and out of the norm of a typical good looking revolver though.

[jh45gun]

I have always said a 22 LR is better than no gun at all but if Ruger was gonna do this they made a mistake in not making it in 22 mag at least with the mag it would have been a better marginal defense gun. 22 mag kills big for its size. Never could figure out why some women are afraid to shoot a larger hand gun when other women shot trap with a 12 gauge and enjoy it.

[1Shirt]

Ugly is as ugly is perceived. I think that the 3"410 Judge is also in the ugly catagory.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[BossHoss]

Boss, I did a Google search for 'ballistic shoot through purse' and couldn't find anything. Can you help me out with a link?

Thanks,
Jim


The one made of ballistic grade material i think is made by CYA.



but this one is one of styles that a niece who is a cpa carries.

http://www.usgalco.com/ViewMorePic.asp?ProductSKU=PANBRN

[Love Life]

Those matebas look sweet!

[contender1]

No matter which gun manufacturer it is, and no matter what they build there will always be folks who think it's ugly, it the wrong caliber, it's too short, it's too long, it has wrong sights, etc. You can not please everyone all the time, no matter what.

I will quote a wise saying; "If you can't say something nice, it's better to say nothing."

That said, a little background on me & my thoughts.
I have been a NRA Women On Target Instructor almost as long as the program was introduced. My wife is the coordinator for our local clinics, and is considered by the NRA as one of the top lady WOT clinic Instructors in the entire country. We have a very successful program.
That said, a LOT of ladies who want a gun for protection etc come to our clinics, and are AFRAID of recoil, noise etc from handguns. When properly instructed, MOST of them are capable of handling a caliber bigger than a 22LR. However, 99.9% of them do NOT reload, nor will ever be "gun people." A comparable practice gun in the same platform is highly desirable. With a lot more ladies getting into shooting, it only makes sense to me to offer things they will enjoy. Just today, at my range, during a regular USPSA match, a lady & her husband were visitors. She wants to become a better shooter, and was looking at the match to help her become a better shooter. She currently has a small .380 auto. Well, we were all nice, and patient to her questions, and when we explained that USPSA minimum caliber was 9mm, she looked at her husband & said; "I need to buy another gun."
With that thought, it only makes sense for a lot of ladies to own two guns. A 22LR in the LCR, and a 38/357 LCR. THey won't be reloading, they will save a lot of $$$ on ammo by practicing with the 22LR & carrying the 38/357.
And, we have MORE ladies into guns, even if just a little bit.

I think Ruger is doing the right thing by introducing this model.

And BTW; on the Ruger Forum about a year ago, a guy was asking a lot of questions about the possibility of converting a 38 spl LCR into 22 LR JUST FOR PRACTICE purposes as the cost of ammo was prohibitive to him. He was totally planning on doing it.

I think it'll be a good seller.

[Russel Nash]

A friend of mine is an instructor with the NRA too....

He also just so happens to get deep discounts with Ruger because of that.


Just sayin'....

[Lefty SRH]

I'm glad Ruger came out with a .22 LCR, it makes sense. I don't think the LCR is ugly, the Rhino wins that award! I enjoy my LCR.

[exile]

My wife puts up with my shooting obsession, but doesn't really enjoy it herself. She will shoot my centerfire handguns if I talk her into it, but really enjoys my Single-six the most. If this really ugly gun would get her shooting more, to me it would be worth its weight in gold. Likewise, I have many female acquaintances who would like to carry but would only shoot a .22. I have a friend who has a Taurus .22 magnum snubby that refuses to function, and a Charter Arms .22 snubby that won't eject the spent cases.

For those of us who enjoy shooting it is hard to imagine someone who would only shoot a small .22, but old age, infirmity and a need for cheap practice make this gun perfect for some.

I watched a You-tube video the other day, from a guy who uses balllistic gel and tests various ammo. He got 21 inches of penetration from CCI Stingers! I would rather have my wife, my neices and many of the women I know shoot someone with eight of those than be raped or murdered. Hard to rape anybody when you have eight holes in your chest.

Besides, five shot .38 snubbys may be easy to operate, but they are not easy to shoot. The aluminum frame guns are easy to carry but tough to shoot, the steel frame guns are hard to carry but somewhat easier.

To my way of thinking, every time Ruger comes out with a new design, it pisses off the the gun-banners and gives someone a job, so what's not to like?

Personally, I would not buy one, but I think one of the biggest gaps in the industry is a small .22 revolver that is reasonably priced and will function every time. Maybe this is it.

[bobthenailer]

Those Rino's and Matebas are so ugly they each need to be put in to 2 gun bags

[Snyd]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/04/20/rossi-circuit-judge-lever-action-410-45/

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/circuit_judge_lever-tfb.jpg

[jh45gun]

My wife puts up with my shooting obsession, but doesn't really enjoy it herself. She will shoot my centerfire handguns if I talk her into it, but really enjoys my Single-six the most. If this really ugly gun would get her shooting more, to me it would be worth its weight in gold. Likewise, I have many female acquaintances who would like to carry but would only shoot a .22. I have a friend who has a Taurus .22 magnum snubby that refuses to function, and a Charter Arms .22 snubby that won't eject the spent cases.

For those of us who enjoy shooting it is hard to imagine someone who would only shoot a small .22, but old age, infirmity and a need for cheap practice make this gun perfect for some.

I watched a You-tube video the other day, from a guy who uses balllistic gel and tests various ammo. He got 21 inches of penetration from CCI Stingers! I would rather have my wife, my neices and many of the women I know shoot someone with eight of those than be raped or murdered. Hard to rape anybody when you have eight holes in your chest.

Besides, five shot .38 snubbys may be easy to operate, but they are not easy to shoot. The aluminum frame guns are easy to carry but tough to shoot, the steel frame guns are hard to carry but somewhat easier.

To my way of thinking, every time Ruger comes out with a new design, it pisses off the the gun-banners and gives someone a job, so what's not to like?

Personally, I would not buy one, but I think one of the biggest gaps in the industry is a small .22 revolver that is reasonably priced and will function every time. Maybe this is it.

Guess I got to disagree with that I have read the recoil stories on line and I was surprised when I shot my Taurus 85 aluminum frame revolver the recoil was very manageable. But then every one is different in how they handle recoil.

[FN in MT]

When does the recall start?

[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:[smilie=l:

MY thoughts exactly!

[oldgeezershooter]

Funny, I've never seen an ugly gun.

[Shooter6br]

How about the old rocket powered gun. Gyro Jet? Worth money though

[Shooter6br]

Gyrojet

[buck1]

Funny, I've never seen an ugly gun.

I can help you with that! LOL!!

[Depreacher]

HEYYYYYYYYYY!!!! We Webley lovers have been slapped in the face twice on this thread. Took my Mk VI out of the safe and it looked purty to me!!!! If James Bond had been handed a Mk. VI to shoot, he would have thrown that pesky .32 PPK away. He would have become a Webley collector, and married Ms. Moneypenny to boot. That's the TRUTH, I swear it. Preachers aren't supposed to swear, but this have gone far enough. [smilie=l:

[stubshaft]

Rino wins the fugly award.

[Viper225]

If you are posting on this web site, it is almost a sure bet that you are a reloader. I really hate to bust your bubble, but I have discovered their are lots of shooters who do not reload. I know, this is hard to believe.

I hang out on the Handgun Hunter Forum some, and lots of handgun hunters do not reload. I can not even imagine not reloading my hunting ammo.

Next if you are posting on this web site it is almost a sure bet that you shoot a great deal. Again hard to believe, buy lots of gun owners do not shoot much at all. Sad, But True. That includes folks who conceal carry.

The 22 LCR is a very good J Frame size practice revolver. The LCR 38 is a very popular handgun. A companion practice gun with the same nice trigger will be a winner.

At our Sportsman's Club we shoot a monthly Defensive Pistol Match. We have a Rimfire Division. Rimfire Division shoots the same course of fire as everything else. If you were scoring the targets, you might have a little more respect for the 22. I score lots of targets shot with a 22 that a single target paster will cover both bullet holes. The 22 is accurate, controlable, and has a very fast recovery time for follow up shots.


It is called Ugly. It is no more ugly than the 38 Version that is very popular.

I read above that it needs to be a 22 Magnum. A 22 magnum is not cheap to shoot. Cheap ammo is a major selling point of the 22 LCR.

I read above where someone was worried that people would start carrying one for Self Defense. Well that might not be a bad thing in some cases. Lets do a little thinking here about concealed carry, with J Frame Size Revolvers as the subject.

If a lady is going to carry a concealed weapon, is it going to be a heavy steel handgun, or an airweight one? Sure Bet on the Air Weight.
Will the average lady enjoy shooting an airweight J Frame size gun in even standard 38 Special? Probably Not
Is she going to shoot enough 38 Special ammo to be accurate with an air weight J farme: Probably Not
How many of us think a lady shooter would shoot a low recoiling 22 J Frame size gun more than a 38 Special Chambered one? Most Everyone
A 550 Pak of bulk 22 is about the same cost as a box of 50 38 Specials. You can fire 11 rounds of 22 for practice for the same cost as 1 round of store bought 38 Special. Will you get more trigger time for your money with a 22? You Bet

Now a Big One. Would a lady shooter be better armed with a 22 she shoots a lot, and is accurate with, or a 38 she does not shoot hardley at all, and is scared of?

When I am working with a new lady shooter at the range, I always start them out with live ammo shooting my 617. I want them to get in quite a bit of trigger time with something they are not scared of to start with.
The 22 LCR is also a great training piece for the same reason.
Lots of lady shooters will never feel comfortable shooting an airweight 38 due to the recoil on such a light weight gun.

What is she better armed with? A 22 LCR in her pocket, or a Model 60 or 64 in her dresser drawer?

Another thing, I wish they made the SP101-22 in a snub version as a companion piece to the 38 version. It is a great trail, and trapping gun as is. A version fitting in your 38 SP101 holster would be a great practice gun also.

Just my 2 Cents

Bob

[Hardcast416taylor]

And to think that I thought they had quit making boat anchors?Robert

[jameslovesjammie]

The Chiappa Rhino IS available in a full size frame. It is available in 4, 5, and 6" barrels. Ugly as it may be...I would seriously consider a 5 or 6".

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/products/340-071mid_0.jpg

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/products/340-072mid_0.jpg

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/products/340-073mid_0.jpg

[btroj]

I will never underestimate the ability of a gun company, and it's designers, to produce some ugly guns. Not sure what market they are after but it sure isn't me.

I personally will not own a Glock. They are a wonderful gun. Reliable, durable, easy to operate, but ugly as heck to my eyes.

The Rhino is the worst I have sen lately, although the Mares Leg lever gun is a close second. They are both ugly and seem to be answers looking for a problem.

[Four Fingers of Death]

They are all pretty ugly, but the Rhino takes the cake! Mind you with that low slung Bbl, it would shoot well and recover from recoil easily. I carried a Model 10 for many years at work and I can't see the point of big ugly revolvers when there are plenty of easily concealed autos out there that are plenty powerful.

As far as I'm concerned, if it is an auto, it's gotta be a 1911 (although I am fond of GeeLocks), if it is a revolver it has to be a Smith, A Ruger Single Action or a Colt Old Army (or clone). Redhawks look pretty good as well although I have never used one. Life is too short to shoot ugly guns and if my life depended on it, I'd want a proven platform, I don't want to be a guinea pig!

[VA Shooter]

I have 5 friends that are going to order the LCR 22 Im thinking about it I might hold out for a 327 I feel it coming I think Ruger will sell a bunch of these Jeff Quinn has a review on it. Man I love my Rugers

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have 5 friends that are going to order the LCR 22 Im thinking about it I might hold out for a 327 I feel it coming I think Ruger will sell a bunch of these Jeff Quinn has a review on it. Man I love my Rugers

Suppose they would weigh next to nothing and would carry well in a track suit jacket or similar informal garb. A 22 in the hands of a cool, calm citizen with a combat mindset would be a nasty piece of equipment which would make a lot of noise and do pretty serious damage. Ask people who work in ER, a gunshot wound from a 22 is way serious!

[jdmudcat]

The Charter Arms Goldfinger is ugly. I got a good discount on one last year because the manager said they could not sell it because it was too ugly and no one would buy it. I kinda like it.
JD

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Charter Arms Goldfinger is ugly. I got a good discount on one last year because the manager said they could not sell it because it was too ugly and no one would buy it. I kinda like it.
JD

I reckon that looks ok! It sure looks sinister enough and would really get the villians attention if pulled!

[Multigunner]

I was immediately reminded of a scene from an old Humphey Bogart film. Bogie was in a cab talking with the driver and asked if he had a gun handy, the driver (Elisha Cook?) pulled out what may have been a Montenegrin revolver of the largest type. Bogie said "that thing should have wheels on it".

The Montenegrin revolvers were built to a specification intending that every citizen have a powerful repeating firearm bought at his own expense, to be used for homeland defense in case of invasion. They may have intended that the citizens buy repeating rifles, but the revolvers filled the specification well enough, and cost a lot less.
Some were truly huge, and as butt ugly as any you can think of.

PS


The 11.25x36mm cartridge is much longer than a .44 Magnum. It was loaded with black powder and fired a 310-grain bullet at almost 900 feet per second. It was the ‘Magnum” of the era, more powerful than contemporaries like the .45 Colt and .44 Russian
At least there was no lack of stopping power from these monsters.

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.gundigest.com/gun-collecting-firearm-collecting/the-revolvers-of-montenegro&sa=U&ei=zc7wTsbSM4TagQesqKiLAg&ved=0CAwQFjAE&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNG5htJyeLhORGcdBL054-Syic2cOQ

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yer learn something every day!

[olafhardt]

I don't think it is ugly. Have any of you who dis the 22 for SD ever shot any thing with one. Not targets or tincans, but blood and muscle and bone. I have. Some dropped dead and some ran off. But they all left me alone. Go shoot some dogs, pigs, cattle or horses, I'll bet they haul tail. Thugs will too.

[machinisttx]

No matter which gun manufacturer it is, and no matter what they build there will always be folks who think it's ugly, it the wrong caliber, it's too short, it's too long, it has wrong sights, etc. You can not please everyone all the time, no matter what.

I will quote a wise saying; "If you can't say something nice, it's better to say nothing."

That said, a little background on me & my thoughts.
I have been a NRA Women On Target Instructor almost as long as the program was introduced. My wife is the coordinator for our local clinics, and is considered by the NRA as one of the top lady WOT clinic Instructors in the entire country. We have a very successful program.
That said, a LOT of ladies who want a gun for protection etc come to our clinics, and are AFRAID of recoil, noise etc from handguns. When properly instructed, MOST of them are capable of handling a caliber bigger than a 22LR. However, 99.9% of them do NOT reload, nor will ever be "gun people." A comparable practice gun in the same platform is highly desirable. With a lot more ladies getting into shooting, it only makes sense to me to offer things they will enjoy. Just today, at my range, during a regular USPSA match, a lady & her husband were visitors. She wants to become a better shooter, and was looking at the match to help her become a better shooter. She currently has a small .380 auto. Well, we were all nice, and patient to her questions, and when we explained that USPSA minimum caliber was 9mm, she looked at her husband & said; "I need to buy another gun."
With that thought, it only makes sense for a lot of ladies to own two guns. A 22LR in the LCR, and a 38/357 LCR. THey won't be reloading, they will save a lot of $$$ on ammo by practicing with the 22LR & carrying the 38/357.
And, we have MORE ladies into guns, even if just a little bit.

I think Ruger is doing the right thing by introducing this model.

And BTW; on the Ruger Forum about a year ago, a guy was asking a lot of questions about the possibility of converting a 38 spl LCR into 22 LR JUST FOR PRACTICE purposes as the cost of ammo was prohibitive to him. He was totally planning on doing it.

I think it'll be a good seller.

A snubby revolver is, IMHO, the worst choice for a carry gun that 90% of the shooting community could make(the other 10%, or less, actually practice with what they carry). An ultra lightweight version like the LCR or Scandium S&W's just makes it worse. A .22 version is a great idea, but it really doesn't make any sense to practice with a 22 and then carry a different gun. Undoubtedly, the POA/POI will be different between the two. Recoil is different and shot to shot recovery will be as well.

I fully understand the reasoning for a cheaper to shoot version of whatever the carry gun is. That said, from talking to other people who carry, a large percentage rarely practice, and if such a gun were available, their carry gun would never leave the holster.

[Love Life]

I could put a serious hurting on somebody with a fistful of 22lr. So could many others. The debate of the 22lr comes up frequently, and I will stick with my usual response. Nothing likes having holes poked in it by high speed projectiles. When you shoot an animal/person with a gun they tend to knock it off. The "I saw him take 4,000,000,000 shots and keep coming because he was high!!!!" does happen, but nowhere near as much as TV and people would have you believe.

I could go into the whole shot placement thing, but that hes been beat to death more than the carrying reloads for self defense issue. I don't know at what point the average human started being born with kevlar skin and titanium bones. I must have missed it some where.

Humans are a wild card. Some will take a burst of 7.62 from a m240G to the guts, and turn around and run up the street. Others will take a single hit from 5.56 and drop. A combo of shot placement and kinetic energy deposited etc.

Final thought. If you have to shoot in self defense aim for the goods. If you can pull off head shots than shoot them in the "T" box. If not then aim for the lungs, solar plexus, kidney area etc. Also shoot for the pelvis. You may be on drugs, but the body is going to have a hard time doing it's natural thing when the pelvise is shattered. Lts also not forget the thighs which carry more support bones and the femoral artery.

[machinisttx]

If you are posting on this web site, it is almost a sure bet that you are a reloader. I really hate to bust your bubble, but I have discovered their are lots of shooters who do not reload. I know, this is hard to believe.

I hang out on the Handgun Hunter Forum some, and lots of handgun hunters do not reload. I can not even imagine not reloading my hunting ammo.

Next if you are posting on this web site it is almost a sure bet that you shoot a great deal. Again hard to believe, buy lots of gun owners do not shoot much at all. Sad, But True. That includes folks who conceal carry.

The 22 LCR is a very good J Frame size practice revolver. The LCR 38 is a very popular handgun. A companion practice gun with the same nice trigger will be a winner.

At our Sportsman's Club we shoot a monthly Defensive Pistol Match. We have a Rimfire Division. Rimfire Division shoots the same course of fire as everything else. If you were scoring the targets, you might have a little more respect for the 22. I score lots of targets shot with a 22 that a single target paster will cover both bullet holes. The 22 is accurate, controlable, and has a very fast recovery time for follow up shots.


It is called Ugly. It is no more ugly than the 38 Version that is very popular.

I read above that it needs to be a 22 Magnum. A 22 magnum is not cheap to shoot. Cheap ammo is a major selling point of the 22 LCR.

I read above where someone was worried that people would start carrying one for Self Defense. Well that might not be a bad thing in some cases. Lets do a little thinking here about concealed carry, with J Frame Size Revolvers as the subject.

If a lady is going to carry a concealed weapon, is it going to be a heavy steel handgun, or an airweight one? Sure Bet on the Air Weight.
Will the average lady enjoy shooting an airweight J Frame size gun in even standard 38 Special? Probably Not
Is she going to shoot enough 38 Special ammo to be accurate with an air weight J farme: Probably Not
How many of us think a lady shooter would shoot a low recoiling 22 J Frame size gun more than a 38 Special Chambered one? Most Everyone
A 550 Pak of bulk 22 is about the same cost as a box of 50 38 Specials. You can fire 11 rounds of 22 for practice for the same cost as 1 round of store bought 38 Special. Will you get more trigger time for your money with a 22? You Bet

Now a Big One. Would a lady shooter be better armed with a 22 she shoots a lot, and is accurate with, or a 38 she does not shoot hardley at all, and is scared of?

When I am working with a new lady shooter at the range, I always start them out with live ammo shooting my 617. I want them to get in quite a bit of trigger time with something they are not scared of to start with.
The 22 LCR is also a great training piece for the same reason.
Lots of lady shooters will never feel comfortable shooting an airweight 38 due to the recoil on such a light weight gun.

What is she better armed with? A 22 LCR in her pocket, or a Model 60 or 64 in her dresser drawer?

Another thing, I wish they made the SP101-22 in a snub version as a companion piece to the 38 version. It is a great trail, and trapping gun as is. A version fitting in your 38 SP101 holster would be a great practice gun also.

Just my 2 Cents

Bob

Might as well give them a NAA in .22 short if all that you're concerned with is them being armed. .22 LR, like the ancient .38 SPL 158 RN, is a notoriously poor stopper. Sure, it'll poke holes in people, but so will a decent pellet gun.

Something of note(and this is coming from someone that is generally not a proponent of autoloading handguns): The Keltec PF9 weighs an ounce or so less than the LCR and holds three more rounds. The Keltec P11 weighs about the same and holds 6 more rounds. Both are roughly the same size as a J frame/LCR. There are LOTS of good, reliable 9mm self defense loads, versus two or three for the .38. You can buy two of the Keltecs for the price of one LCR. 9mm ammo is a little cheaper than .38....I'm seeing a difference of about $100 per 1k rounds.

If you're in the mood to do some reading, I suggest reading some of what Martin Fackler has written on the subject of terminal ballistics. Check out his credentials first, the guy knows what he's talking about. http://rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

[machinisttx]

I don't think it is ugly. Have any of you who dis the 22 for SD ever shot any thing with one. Not targets or tincans, but blood and muscle and bone. I have. Some dropped dead and some ran off. But they all left me alone. Go shoot some dogs, pigs, cattle or horses, I'll bet they haul tail. Thugs will too.

My grandfather killed lots of big hogs(300+ pounds) with a single .22 short behind the ear. That said, I remember shooting one coyote 15 times with a marlin model 60, with a combination of head and chest shots. I quit shooting when it disappeared into a brush pile. I was good enough with that rifle to hit flying sparrows, and that yodel dog fell or stumbled every time I fired.

Marginally adequate with precise shot placement. Wholly inadequate with anything less than precise shot placement. That is the .22 lr.

[Bullet Caster]

I'm just wondering how many on this forum have ever shot another human being. I've only had to do it once and that was enough for me. Do I wish I could take the bullet back? NO. The thug deserved what my .45 1911 could dish out.

Now about the .22. My wife has a .22 High Standard with a 4" bbl. 9 shot she has shot since she was a kid. Can I talk her into shooting any of my pistols or rifles? No definitely not. She always say that center fired "guns" hurt her ears, but the .22 doesn't. I'd rather her carry the .22 than nothing at all. At least she's familiar with her pistol and is a good shot with it. I often tell her not to stop pulling the trigger until it is empty if accosted by anyone wishing to do her harm. A .22 has its place especially in the hand of a practiced shooter. Just my take on the subject. BC

[Love Life]

The Chiappa Rhino IS available in a full size frame. It is available in 4, 5, and 6" barrels. Ugly as it may be...I would seriously consider a 5 or 6".

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/products/340-071mid_0.jpg

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/products/340-072mid_0.jpg

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/sites/default/files/products/340-073mid_0.jpg

They have a 6 inch version and it actually looks pretty decent.

[rintinglen]

In 1992 I rolled back up to a shooting, where the victim who had been shot multiple times (at least 4, perhaps, 6). Those macho studs who congregate on the web would probably not want to have traded places with him.
The victim, a slightly built, male, hispanic, had been drinking and had got in an argument with another hispanic. Tempers flared and the two stepped outside to finish the argument. The victim reached for his Buck Knock-off Folder, and was confronted with a .25 auto. He ducked behind a telephone pole, and raised his arm as though to ward off the shot. He had a bullet wound through his right hand, one in his right forearm and one in his right bicep. He had also been shot in the right side, just above the hip, in the right leg near the knee and in the right ankle. When I arrived, he was crying, cradling his wounded arm in his left as blood coursed down his leg and flooded over his shoe. Did he pull his "cuchillo" and carve up his opponent? Not hardly. He wouldn't have been able to whip a healthy 8 year old at that point.
His shooter fled the scene and was reported to have returned to Mexico.
6 casings were recovered at the scene and the victim survived and was turned over to INS.
A mouse gun is not my first choice, nor second, nor third. But it is much better than nothing. At the very least, it will give you a leg up in the fist fight that follows. And the mere presence of a fire arm, strongly presented, may be sufficient to forestall the need to use it, at least, in my experience.

[DLCTEX]

The ugliness of the Rhino is easily fixed. Put it in a rug and keep it zipped. If you ever pull it on a bad guy, he'll die laughing.

[Love Life]

The ugliness of the Rhino is easily fixed. Put it in a rug and keep it zipped. If you ever pull it on a bad guy, he'll die laughing.

Zing!!!!