1902 Rem Roller

[tbierley]

I just my hands on a 1902 Rem Rolling Block in 7MM. The bore looks very good and the action is very tight. But there is some pitting under the wood. The wood looks not very good. Does any one know were I could find the stock and upper and lower wood for her. I want to keep her in her military dress for now. Thanks

[bigted]

LOL...if i were a paronoid freaky kinda fella and sure that the world is out to get me id be thinking rite about now that i been took...only kidding here...i just purchased a 1902 roller in 7mm myself and the only question i have is the wood.

i hope your as proud of getting such a treat as i am...[even tho it is still on the dog sled to me...LOL]. im hoping that mine has a good enough bore to be a shooter so i can just have fun with it. there is a place to buy wood for these but im sure that whomever knows this place will proudly turn you onto them...have fun with your roller.

[tbierley]

I will try to post some pics of the old girl in a day or two. The price was me at the right place at the right time.

[no-horse]

http://www.rollingblockparts.com/
I just my hands on a 1902 Rem Rolling Block in 7MM. The bore looks very good and the action is very tight. But there is some pitting under the wood. The wood looks not very good. Does any one know were I could find the stock and upper and lower wood for her. I want to keep her in her military dress for now. Thanks

[leadman]

Be aware the chambers on these 7 X57 RBs are normally longer than the current standard. Everyone thinks these have excessive headspace but this is the way they were chambered.

So if your chamber is long you can use the Cream of Wheat fireforming to fit your brass to the gun. Make sure you do not push the shoulder too far back when sizing.

I had one of these that had BATJAC stamped in the stock. Was told it was John Waynes movie company.

[Montana Ron]

I have had issues with these and over sizing the cases in the neck area and then sizing in a 7MM die just enough to have it lock up and fire with bullseye and cream of wheat to fire form cases resolved all the problem I had.........full length sizing is out and to start out full length sizing and seating a bullet will be a bad mistake as fire will come out and you'll trash brass instantly........................Go slow and think about each step and this will become a good shooter.......don't push the shoulder back re sizing
but just size part of the neck................[smilie=2:

[MtGun44]

Been shooting them since I was a teen. VERY accurate rifles if the barrel is good.
I keep brass segragated for the #5 and use the Lee collet sizer to keep from resizing
the brass.

Mine will do ~1" at 100 dead stock with 35 gr of 4064 under a Hornady 175 JRN. My
rifling is very worn, and have not yet tried cast. I have a couple of molds that I think
may work in it, too many projects.

Unless the wood is completely trashed, you will significantly lower the value by replacing
it. At minimum, wrap the wood carefully, box it and mark it on the outside which gun
and SN "original stock" or similar and store it well so you or your heirs can find it later
to replace if a collector wants it.

Bill

[tbierley]

I am going to shoot it this weekend. I looked down the bore the rifling is gone in the last 2ins or the bore. If it shoots ok I will not mess with it. But if the thing keyholes I am going to courter bore it. Will keep everyone posted.

[leadman]

Where are the pictures??

[MtGun44]

Good plan if it keyholes. Long 175 Horn RN or Fed 175 factory RN shoot well in mine.

Bill

[tbierley]

here a pic of the rifle. Not a good pic

[tbierley]

I went out and shot the rifle today. It shot good but I had to drive the case out the chamber the case had flat primer and grown .25in in length. I was using SB ammo. I think was to hot. I will try some reloads with Trailboss next time.

[Multigunner]

Around 1915 the British navy bought a large number of Remington single shot rifles chambered for the 7mm Mauser cartridge.
These would have to have been Rolling Blocks much like this rifle.
Anyway the rifles were withdrawn from service, the stated reason being defective breech blocks, but I suspect that British manufactured 7mm Mauser ammo was just too hot for these rifles.
Britian manufactured milspec ammo in many calibers, they used a number of rifles of foreign design as well as the standard British service rifles for naval sharpshooters and to arm crews of trawlers and other non warship vessels.

The Remington was strong enough for the earlier loadings of the 7mm Mauser, but by 1915 some countries were pushing the cartridge to obtain maximum performance, so the Rolling block was at times over amped.

I would be very leery of using modern 7mm ammo unless I knew for a fact that it was loaded with the older rifles in mind.
Mild handloads would be the safest route, even if the rifle is in great condition.
Its a BP era design not much more advanced than the Civil War era breech loaders from which it sprang.
As others have noted theres really not much margin of safety in this design should a case rupture.

[4060MAY]

an article in the SPG black Powder News Issue 57, Spring 2007

Has all the information on 7mm Rolling Blocks...seems they are not 7 x 57 Mauser..but 7mm Spanish something or other

The issue 57 is no longer available, but contacting SPG, a copy of it may be available..I have this copy but copyright's prevent me from copying it

http://www.blackpowderspg.com/0607.html

[leadman]

I shot the S&B ammo in my Mauser. 175gr bullet at almost 2,600 fps. That is a stout load.

The flattened primers could just be from the brass being too short, but you may want to reload with a milder load.

[tbierley]

I am going to start loading them with trailboss and start casting. Today I am going to pull some bullets and load to 30/30 specs. I will also pull some and drop the load by 10 to 20% of factory loads.

[no-horse]

try http://www.rollingblockparts.com/ he has parts for a 02

[MtGun44]

S&B is hot, if I had know you would try that I would have warned against it.

Try 35 gr of 4064 and Hornady 175 RN, mild and accurate in my 1902 RB.

Bill

[tbierley]

Is that the reason the cases had to be driven out of the chamber?

[tbierley]

What is the pressure of that load data that posted?

[Multigunner]

The Book "Rifles and Ammunition, and Rifle Shooting" published in 1915 mentions a South American 7X57mm Mauser cartridge intended for use in a model 98 type action that pushed a 150 grain bullet to 2,900 FPS. Such a load could be very hard on a Model 93 Mauser much less a 1902 Rolling Block.

I hope the S&B ammo did not damage the breechblock or swell the chamber.

[tbierley]

I dont think it did any harm. I am not shooting any more of it. Before I shoot anymore I pull the bullets and lower the powder charge. Thanks for asking.

[MtGun44]

Most handload data for 7x57 is maxed out at 45,000 psi.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

an article in the SPG black Powder News Issue 57, Spring 2007

Has all the information on 7mm Rolling Blocks...seems they are not 7 x 57 Mauser..but 7mm Spanish something or other

The issue 57 is no longer available, but contacting SPG, a copy of it may be available..I have this copy but copyright's prevent me from copying it

http://www.blackpowderspg.com/0607.html

You mean the 1897, 1902 and 1910 7mm Rolling Blocks weren't chambered in the same 7mm that was the round for the 1893 and 1895 7mm Mausers Spain bought?

Seriously, the 7x57mm round was known as 7mm Spanish because Spain bought their Mausers in 7mm(x57mm). Whether the reason for the longer chamber was the most frequently claimed reason - allowance for less than perfect condition military ammunition (Latin American countries didn't always have the most technologically proficient soldiers, which had some impact on maintaining weapons and ammunition), or the less frequent reason cited of stretch of the cases due to block movement in the rolling block action, the 7mm Rolling Block rifles and carbines were intended for use with period loadings of what we now know as 7x57mm Mauser.

Ed

[tbierley]

I have loaded up some rounds today. Frist I loaded some 173 SP to 35grs of W760. Good rounds but got powder blow back in my face, the cases did not seal to the chamber. But not problem with cases coming out. The next were same bullet but with 13.0grs of TrailBoss, rounds fired good no blow back and cases came out with no problem. Help I need to know some good load data. Thanks

[MtGun44]

The cartridge is the same as 7x57, but the chambers are cut generously in any RB because
they have essentially no camming ability to force a loaded round into a dirty or fouled chamber.
My brass is not stretched all that bad, and my friend's 1902 was not either.

He loaded for years with a Lee Loader - which was perfect because it only neck sized his
brass. I strongly recommend neck sizing brass for these rifles. In my experience, mild
loads will have a protruding primer because the primer pops out to the breech face, but the
case is not stretched back due to low pressure and it is held in place by neck and forward
case friction on the chamber.

I use the Lee collet sizer and it works very well, giving perfectly straight necks.

Bill

[tbierley]

Do you thing the load in my earlier massage is safe load for this old girl?

[MtGun44]

No idea about Trail Boss, but I know that 35 gr of IMR 4064 under a Hornady 175 RN is
safe and accurate.

Bill

[tbierley]

I went out and shot the Rolling Block today. And very happy with it. It shoot very good at 25yds. I was hitting cola cans and at 50yds I was hitting 2 liter bottles. The load I was using is 174 FMJ and 13grs of TailBoss. Had to set rear set 200yds for 50yd shots. Thanks for the help.

[hickstick_10]

I shoot federal factory 175 grain loads. No case seperations, no badly bulged brass but the necks do need to be sized down a fair bit. The lighter 140 grain loads seem to be a little hotter, and while they shoot fine, I prefer the heavier bullet.

There is alot of fear and misinformation about these guns, much of it generated by people I am suspicious who have never shot one.

[frnkeore]

"There is alot of fear and misinformation about these guns, much of it generated by people I am suspicious who have never shot one. "

+1

Frank

[MtGun44]

I, too, have had good results with the Federal 175 RN factory loads in my #5 RB.

My best hunting handload is 35.0 Gr 4064 under a Hornady 175 RN.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=4726

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=161&pictureid=4727

The Fed factory is about 2.5" high and 1" right for the factory sights, but my handload
is about 1" low at 100 yds. with the factory sights. Given my 60 yr old eyes and the microscopic
front sight and tiny rear notch, I think this is pretty good accuracy from the old girl.

I used the Lee collet die to neck size these cases and recommend it for this application.

You would NOT want to stand out there. ;-)

Mine has a great trigger pull, too. Very light and crisp.

NOTE: I edited my earlier post. I was away from home and quoted the load from memory
one grain too high, so I corrected it.

I have done some fast shooting with this rifle that most would think is BS if I quoted the times
that I got in some fun match 'walk and fire' "hunting" scenarios. That gun is amazingly fast for
what it is, much quicker than I would have ever believed myself if I hadn't don it. Extra rounds
between the fingers of the fwd hand, then an open pocket in a light jacket for more.

Bill

[hickstick_10]

Mtgun44

Have you tried resizing 30-06 brass to 7mm? I read somewhere a man tried it in hopes of the thicker necks taking up some of the slop in that area of the chamber.

I dont shoot a 30-06 so I'd like to know before I go try 50 cases or so.


Im a big fan of smokeless "transition" rifles, and just recently got my 7mm rolling block to go with my 303 martini enfield, I wish more of these guns were turned into smokeless sporters, as I can come across 4 or 5 danish or egyptian rolling blocks for every 1897 or #5. If I can come across another 7mm thats shot out I would love to have it built into a svelte hunting rifle.

[MtGun44]

Never have needed to. I strongly prefer to have the headstamps on the cases match what
it actually is. I load for a LOT of different guns and if I had odd cases laying around with
the wrong headstamp, I'd go nuts.

That said - no particular reason why it shouldn't work. The 7x57 is the parent case for
the .30-06, of course. AND the .45 ACP. I'd get a few rounds of range pickup or big deal
a few from a friend before I'd do anything with 50 cases. I don't think you'll gain much,
really.

Don't sweat the necks. Get a Lee collet sizer and you'll be fine if you segregate the brass for
that rifle only. If you only have one 7x57, then no sweat. I have a number of them and really
need to keep this rifle's brass segregated.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

Mtgun44

Have you tried resizing 30-06 brass to 7mm? I read somewhere a man tried it in hopes of the thicker necks taking up some of the slop in that area of the chamber.

I dont shoot a 30-06 so I'd like to know before I go try 50 cases or so.


Im a big fan of smokeless "transition" rifles, and just recently got my 7mm rolling block to go with my 303 martini enfield, I wish more of these guns were turned into smokeless sporters, as I can come across 4 or 5 danish or egyptian rolling blocks for every 1897 or #5. If I can come across another 7mm thats shot out I would love to have it built into a svelte hunting rifle.

It would work. Easiest way to go about it (I think) is the RCBS file and trim die. Anneal, lube and run it into the die - cut the excess brass "neck" off and file smooth. Take the finished case out of the die. If the resulting case is too thick in the neck, you'll need to turn the neck.

I agree with Bill about headstamps. I do have an exception for my M-1910 cases, because I have other 7x57mm rifles. I form the RB cases out of .270 Win brass. I don't own a .270, so no chance of mix-up because of the headstamp.