Ruger#1 vs New Win High Wall

[218bee]

I've always wanted a modern single shot and have never had the money when I've come across one I've liked. I now see both Ruger and Win make their respective models in 300 H&H. To me this would be a great "one gun" rifle if I were ever forced into such an ungodly situation.
My purpose for this rifle would be twofold...hunting and reloading/ load development. As for hunting this would be a lower 48 proposition for 98% of what I hope to do. What I really enjoy though is reloading and playing with a rifle to see what its capable of. But I am not looking for a discussion of the caliber as thats a whole new can of worms.
So I've heard all about the Ruger forend and the steps many take to improve that fit for accuracy. Never heard much good or bad about the Winny. Looking for people with experience with one or both of these for their likes and dislikes about them. I'd be putting a scope on rifle if I did buy one...any problems there/ How are the triggers? fit and finish? anything else I should be aware of?
I would hope 1" @ 100yds accuracy with tailored loads would not be too much to ask for is it? Thats better than needed for hunting but I would hope that would be achieveable. Any thoughts (besides caliber choice) will be appreciated.
What say ye.......:coffee:

[Gtek]

I have three Browning/Win-Japs, I am very happy with mine. Two of them required just a touch to float handguard, they were floating but fit really close. .223, 30 WCF, 32-40. I breech seat the latter two. The .223 is .3"-.5" @ 100 with my roll your own. Triggers have been very lightly touched, still at 2+. Fit and finish were really nice, factory trigger could be better. Good luck with your mental volley ball! Gtek

[uscra112]

The Winchester, without a doubt.

For one thing, the Ruger has too darned many moving parts. And there are all the well-known problems with making it accurate.

The Winchester is a pretty simple, and very strong machine. And it warn't for not reason that a good few of the old Schuetzen geniuses used the 1885 action, including Harry Pope.

As for strength and build quality, I would trust a Jap/Browning, but anything from Europe or South America I would be leery of. (That's based only on reading - all of mine are originals.)

I for one have never have gotten used to not having an exposed hammer on a hunting rifle. My Borchardt is a fine piece, but I can see why it wasn't popular with hunters back in the day. Maybe it's because I cut my teeth on a 336 Marlin?

Scopes have to be mounted on the barrel, but that's no big deal.

In my experience, one MOA is pretty darned good for a High Wall of any stripe, but it's also much better than I can shoot without a solid bench and bags, so I don't sweat it with any of mine. One MOA with the .300 H&H may not be do-able at all, but what do I know? All three of mine are varmint calibers. (Although I'm switching one to the .357 Max.)

The .300 H&H will be a he-man cartridge in any single shot. I presume you're immune to recoil.

[NickSS]

I have owned both and for care free good accuracy the Winchester gets the nod. I had at least 3 No 1s that never did shoot as well as they should have compared to zero problems with Browning/ Winchesters I have owned. As to strength they are both about as strong as any person would want.

[bigted]

i also will chime in with the had///have both and they both have their place...having said as much id endorse the jap hiwall over the ruger. where the ruger has it over the hiwall is the firing pin...it is outta sight for the unexpected ocasion of a blown or punchture primer. the action is just as strong i believe on the hiwall but the firing pin is directly exposed behind that hammer rite even with your cheek / eye. this does not hampper me at all tho.

my hi-walls...[ i have 4 ] all shoot minute of angle and the browning bpcr was the last to do so but finally figured it out as well. my 45-70 will cluster 5 into an inch easy with my load and the 38-55 with jacketed loads will do 3/4 inch at 100 for 5 almost every time i wanna do so.

will your 300 come into the 1 inch at 100....yep no doubt about it with the hi-wall...more work involved with the ruger in my opinion but im bettin you could bring it in as well with the correct foolin.

buy the hi-wall tho and enjoy the distoric lines when fondeling it round the campfire. and for the respectfull look that we all desire ...purchase a unertl scope with the outside adjustments and learn to pull it back n turn it a bit to the right with every shot and the 24 inch long scope in the adjustable mounts will have everybody wondering just what in the world did you bring grandads gun out for...LOL

ENJOY

[Tatume]

Currently I have six of one and two of the other. Both models have the fore end attached to a hanger. Sometimes the older Rugers benefited from shimming the fore end down, away from the barrel. The older Winchester (Browning/Miroku) models sometimes bind on one side, and must be shimmed or relieved to free it.

That said, none of my recently-made Ruger No. 1 rifles had fore end issues, and my most recent Miroku High Wall had the fore end bedded at the factory, with what appears to be Marine Tex.

Both are fine guns, and you should make your choice based on what appeals to you. You'll find either to shoot well.

[Shooter]

I have both. The Ruger handles better than the highwall. The safety is easier to use than the hammer, and there is less to catch the fingers.

[Reload3006]

Both are beautiful works of art and I would almost do deviate things for one. So far I just cant justify the cost maybe some day.

[Gunlaker]

I've had some of each. The short barrel on the Ruger #1 would make it a handier hunting rifle in bushy areas. But as far as accuracy goes, the modern 1885's I've owned were certainly more accurate than the Rugers. I never liked the feel of the Ruger trigger compared to the 1885 either.

Chris.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, I like single shot rifles, but for hunting don't want to be dealing with an exposed hammer and agree that the safety is much quicker to deal with.

For a varmit rifle, the high wall would be a joy to use, but for hunting, again there is the hammer. SORRY, it is just a personal thing and nothing against any who might use and like the exposed hammer rifles.

Break open single shots like the handi-rifle -- won't go there again for personal reason, just WON'T!!!!!!!!!

Thompson Center Contender etc. -- like them and have been there and done that but not in rifle barrel lengths.

AS to the "well known" problems with getting a RUGER #1 to shoot, well don't go there until you have seen it for yourself. Most of it is just ol'wives tails, or just plain bull from someone with a hate for RUGERs in general.

This is not to say there are not #1 rifles with issues, but I truely believe the same can be said for the High WAll. There is nothing mechanical made by man that does not have an "issue" at some point for some reason.

My self, I have owned and loved RUGER #1s for years, and never, not once have I had one which would not shoot and do so in fine fashion.

AS a matter of course, I come down BIG on hunting rifle consistancy and for that reason, bed and float the forearm wood on a #1, just like I float any bolt action hunting rifle I may have. Bedding depends on what the stock is made of.

So, go with what rings your bell, but forget the "well Known" issues with getting a RUGER #1 to shoot. Most of the "well Known" issues are the few real "issues" passed many times from one person to another.

There is not a single #1 I have used and enjoyed over the years that I wouldn't welcome back in less then a second. Not one!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[218bee]

thanks for the info guys....don't know if I can afford one at this point but sure am thinkin of ways to do so.

[Hang Fire]

The Winchester is a pretty simple, and very strong machine. And it warn't for not reason that a good few of the old Schuetzen geniuses used the 1885 action, including Harry Pope.

From what I have been reading, the Marlin Ballards were the most celebrated rifles of the Schuetzen era. The Ballard actions were highly praised by Pope and he mated many of his legendary barrels to them.

[rr2241tx]

The Winchester is a simpler design and in the field simple often equals reliable. Also sounds like you would be well served by a single set trigger which will help with your 1MOA goal and could be switched out for the stock trigger for hunting.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

If you have a "single set trigger" like a Canjar, there is no need to do any switching.

I would guess, they are still being made, but the Canjar single set trigger was a great way to go.

The "set" portion or the trigger was inset into the wide trigger and to set, you simply pushed forward on the trigger and the set portion popped out sightly from the face of the trigger.

The wide trigger looked a lot like the "trigger shoes" which attached to the standard trigger with a couple of small set screws and allowed for what might be a better feeling trigger.

In fact, if you were not aware of the Canjar trigger, You would very likely not even know what you were seeing.

AS per the High Wall being "more relyable" because of less parts, well that is simply a non-issue. AT least, I have never seen or heard of parts breakage on a #1.

It really comes down to what rings your bell, as they are both fine rifle. Different yes, but both fine.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[August]

The Hi Wall is John Moses' first design. Number 1 Hi Wall, the patent model, is in the Cody Museum and it will have you standing flat footed in awe if you ever get there to take a look at it.

The No. 1 (3) is Bill Ruger's homage to John Moses and a fine tribute.

Have both, shoot both, love both. It's possible to disassemble the Ruger, the Browning (Winchester) not so much.

[uscra112]

From what I have been reading, the Marlin Ballards were the most celebrated rifles of the Schuetzen era. The Ballard actions were highly praised by Pope and he mated many of his legendary barrels to them.

True, the Ballard was indeed very popular, and I can see why - my .22 offhand rifle is a Ballard, also one of my Lovells, built by Sedgley. But Harry's personal rifle for many years before his eye injury finished his shooting career was a High Wall, much modified as only the master could do it. Dr. W.G. Hudson, one of the only men who could consistently match and even beat Pope, used a number of actions, including High Walls. A lot of Pope barrels also went on Stevens actions, especially during the short period when he actually worked at Stevens. And Marlin stopped making the Ballard in 1891, so if you wanted a new action from then on it was a Winchester, until Stevens introduced the Model 44 1/2 in 1903.

[DHB]

If you go with a new Browning/Winchester I believe they come with the barrel drilled and tapped. Scope sighting is then not a problem. I shoot #1s, #3s, Brownings Winchesters, and Originals. I like the John Browning design, High Wall, MUCH better. If I'm not mistaken some of the High Walls (modern) appear to fall only to half cock when you try to manually lower the hammer. My Winchester 22 LR does this. If the rifle is empty, I would prefer the hammer to rest on the block. Getting one hole groups (clover leafs) is much easier in a High Wall than a Ruger from my experience. Ruger is the stronger action. Good luck and let us know.
Happy Birthday Jesus! God Bless Us Everyone.
DHB

[Tatume]

Getting one hole groups (clover leafs) is much easier in a High Wall than a Ruger from my experience. Ruger is the stronger action.

As the owner of mulitple examples of each, I can say without doubt that they are equally capable of fine accuracy, right out of the box.

The Ruger is probably the stronger of the two actions, but the distinction is academic. Both are offered by the factories chambered for belted magnums, and have adequate margins of safety.

Take care, Tom

[montana_charlie]

As for strength and build quality, I would trust a Jap/Browning, but anything from Europe or South America I would be leery of.
I won't weigh in on either side of the topic, but I have read the replies.
I am amazed to read the statement above.

The Europeans were building exquisite firearms when the Japanese were still dependent on swords and arrows.

That's not to say that Japan has not learned to build fine firearms ... but the Europeans certainly have not forgotten how to.
The thread author would like to have a rifle chambered in .300 H&H.
That means Holland & Holland ... a European rifle and shotgun maker who still puts a thousand hours into every gun they turn out.
Absolutely every part is hand fitted to every other part within the gun.

CM

[big dale]

I traded for a Ruger #1 in 338 Win Mag for a very good price due to all the scabbard wear on both the stock and the rest of the rifle. It always shot groups of about 1.25 inch from the bench and kicked like a mule. It was more accurate than I could stand to shoot for long. After about a year I traded it for a Model 700 Varmiter in 223 that I still have 25 years later. My first Ruger #1 was a heavy barreled model in 25 Super. I have also had several other #1's and I like them a lot. I have always wanted one of the Winchesters with a heavy barrel in 25/06. Maybe some year I will find one when I have a few bucks.

I hope you enjoy chasing single shot rifles for a few decades like I have.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[oldred]

The Hi Wall is John Moses' first design. Number 1 Hi Wall, the patent model, is in the Cody Museum and it will have you standing flat footed in awe if you ever get there to take a look at it.

The No. 1 (3) is Bill Ruger's homage to John Moses and a fine tribute.

Have both, shoot both, love both. It's possible to disassemble the Ruger, the Browning (Winchester) not so much.



The original high walls and the newer ones are not to be confused as being the same, actually comparing them is comparing apples and oranges since they share little in common except for the general outline and the model name, they are two COMPLETELY different rifles! The new Browning/Winchester (Jap) rifles are almost as different as the the Ruger, NOTHING internally is the same and there is only a vague similarity on the outside, other than the fact they are both falling block designs they share nothing in common. The older original designs were very simple and very strong rifles and while the new model 1885s are also strong they are not the simple design of the old 1885s and are a completely new and more complex rifle with quite a few small internal parts.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ah yes, the 300 H&H --------------------

Please no one miss understand me here, the cartridge is a fine one and is well proven in many areas.

However, unless I desired to take a trip down memory lane I might choose something other then the, "Super 30."

Again, fine cartridge! But, if I didn't want the better proformance of say the 300 win. mag. or the 300 Weatherby, why not go with another classic cartridge, namely the 30/06 Springfield.

The 300 H&H sits just about middle between the "06" and the 300 Win. Mag. and will save you a fair amount in brass and powder costs, and all the while the 06 will loose you very little to nothing in game taking ability.

Now, one point possibly in the back of your mind is the fact that a single shot rifle in 300 H&H is just a quick trip with a reamer from becoming a 300 Weatherby, and brass for the 300 Weatherby is just a quick trigger pull away from the 300 H&H.

In goes a 300 H&H cartridge to the Weatherby chamber and, bang, out comes a 300 Weatherby case all fire formed and ready to go into your 300 Weatherby sizing die.

So, that would save LOTS of bucks over buying Weatherby brass.

But yet, other then the possible trip down memory lane I might really think about the 06/300win mag options.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Tatume]

Several people have used the term "Jap" in this thread (and others). As the son of a WWII veteran who fought in the Pacific Theater, I grew up understanding this to be a racist epithet. I’m not accusing anybody of anything, just pointing out that the term can be misunderstood by some.

[oldred]

Jap is just short for Japanese so it shouldn't be considered racist, I think "Nip" would be however.

[TCLouis]

True Single Shot Rifles have a Hammer, every time, always.

It is written in stone . . . or at least it should be.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, my RUGER #1 has a hammer and it is just where I like it, inside, out of the way, unseen. ;) :-P

CDOC

[montana_charlie]

Jap is just short for Japanese so it shouldn't be considered racist, I think "Nip" would be however.
How far would one want to take this conversation?
Jap is short for Japanese, and Nip is short for Niponese ... as in people from Nippon.
Similarly, Canuk is not intended to insult Canadians and Ozzie is not meant to demean Austrailians as they are just short versions of the 'proper' terms.

Gook, zip, or slopehead would be racial epithets ...

CM

[oldgeezershooter]

Just my two cents. I have two Ruger #1's a Varmit barell 25/06 and a medium sporter in 45/70 and both have outstanding accuracy.
The 25/06 will shoot MOA all day long and the 45/70 is almost there.
All it took was playing with different loads and bullets and boolits, not to mention powders, but I have worked up some dandy loads for both.

[Char-Gar]

I have both and like them. The handling qualities and method of operation is just a matter of personal choice.

My Rugers (No. 1 and No. 3) have been accurate rifles, but the No. 1 does require a little fiddling with to get it to do it's best.

The Japchester does very well right out of the box.

As far as ultimate accuracy goes, I also will give the Japchester the nod by a small degree. I highly suspect it is the quality of the barrels vs. the quality of Ruger barrels.

[Gtek]

Recon to base - over. We have confirmed PC on slope - over. Awaiting orders before engage - over. Gtek

[bigted]

Base to recon...Base to recon...you have a go...i repeat...go go go!!! confirm after action over.

[XTR]

Personally I think the 1885 is just damned gorgeous, so I bought one. You can get a #1 for about 2/3 the price I think.

[oldred]

I always liked the looks of those things too but could not justify the cost of a new one, since I like working with guns as much as shooting them I decided to build my own. The receiver and internals were machined from a block of 4140 HT steel and the barrel is a Green Mountain 2" round blank that I milled to a tapered octagon. The wood came from a local walnut tree that was about to be cut up for firewood but was given to me for the asking. It is chambered in 45/90 with a 32" barrel and weighs 14 1/2 pounds, the pics were taken just prior to bluing. I did some redesign of the trigger group to eliminate the external screws and pins that hold the trigger assembly and sear, this was done to give a cleaner exterior of the receiver and to provide for trigger adjustment.


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/1314485488.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/1314489384.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/1314486030.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/1314485884.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/IMG_3717.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/IMG_2834.jpg

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Eeeeeeeeeeyooooooow,

Dat do be nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CDOC

[50-170-700 sharps]

WOW! That is one sharp looking rig oldred!

[williamwaco]

To me this would be a great "one gun" rifle if I were ever forced into such an ungodly situation.


Perhaps I misread your meaning here but I think you are asking about a"SHTF" rifle.

If that happens, the LAST thing you want is a belted case. You need something that can be made from readily available ( military ) cases.

For that purpose I would not consider anything that could not be made from the .30-06 case.


But, If I misread your meaning, go with the Winchester ( or Browning) - ( Same gun ).

I have owned six ( 6 ) - yes six Ruger No. One rifles. NONE of them could be counted on to beat 3 MOA.

I have owned 2 Winchester 1885's and both will average 1.5 MOA with cast bullets and an occasional one half MOA "teaser".



Note that in both cases, I am talking about "out of the box accuracy." If you want to tinker with it then choose the one that calls out to you.





Merry Christmas.



.

[pilot]

Oldred, I'm in awe.

[BruceB]

Interesting thread.

I have (and really enjoy) two #1 rifles at this time. Several others have come-and-gone over the last few decades.

All these #1s gave at least usable accuracy, and weren't sold due to failures to perform.

The newest one here is in .303 British, and is too new for a fair evaluation. The other is a #1H in .416 Rigby. It will group TEN RCBS 416-350s under an inch at 100 yards, running at over 2000 fps. This performance comes with just a 4X Leupold and retirement-age eyes....what's NOT to like?

I find the high-wall rifle to be butt-ugly, compared to either the #1 or its little brother, the low-wall. "Life's too short to shoot ugly guns!" Strictly due to its appearance, there won't be any of this type in my racks. Is this a too-feeble excuse? I appreciate the design's sterling qualities, but just can't get past the clunky appearance (in MY eyes, at least).

Oh well....differences of opinion make horse races...

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

BruceB, guess I come down with you as per the shootability of the #1.

I may bed and float the forarm of my #1s, I do the same to other hunting rifles, any brand any type, but never have I come anywhere close, even remotely close to the experience that WilliamWaco talks about with the #1.

I haven't been forced to bed and float to get the rifles to shoot well, I bed and float because I come down hard on consistance of point of impact on hunting bolt actions, single shots or whatever. I don't do the potential problems of wood to metal contact on hunting rifles. I Just don't go there!

My first - late 60s - early 70s - was a 7 Rem Mag and it, like everyone since, has been a good shooter.

Now if William's experience is that he picked up some factory loads and his rifle didn't like them, well OK I understand. Otherwise, I don't want to ride an airplane with William, cause he is one unlucky dude!

However, each and everyone of my RUGER single shots have been hand loaded for, the loads worked up for that rifle. That is what I do with center fire rifles, be they RUGERS or another brand, and no matter what the action type.

Maybe I have just been lucky, but that 7 Rem mag was a long time ago and as said, everyone since was a good shooter.

Personally I don't have any issues with the high wall, other then I don't like exposed hammers on game hunting rifles. Would be great to have one for a varmit/ground critter/wolf rifle, but for hunting, make my rifle hammerless.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[bigted]

wowww ...thought i just read that somebody does not like the flowing lines of the winchester/browning hiwall in any of its sexy configurations...had to be a miss-print tho as im sure that there is nobody that would actually put in print that they dont like the hiwall look with the flowing lines that make it one of the classics' of all time!...lol just pullin yer leg bruceb.

bet you cant tell what rifle is dear to me huh? some fall hopeless over the sharps...some a snazzy boltgun...myself it has always been the winchester origanal hiwall that does it for me...i have 4 of the new ones and i will bring home an origanal when i find what im looking for. have been in love with the hiwall since a boy so i always go goo-gaa over a nicely built anything that resembles a hiwall...yep even the jap-chesters...i doubt you will have anything that recoils any harder then the 45-120 i had in a lite barely 8 lbs rifle either and i shot this with the deep curved butt-plate and i tought me the importance of allowing the curve to grace my arm not my shoulder.

back to the origanal question...HIWALL OR RUGER...whichever gun feels best and looks rite to ya will serve you for a very long time to come and will definetly do all the accuracy that you want to squeeze into it.

have fun with your choice and post your results here as i for one will want to read your experiences and choice and why.

as for the belted case thing...i wouldnt have it any other way either...either belted or rimmed as this gives a firm place to chamber to and the 375 ruger tought me the importance of a good belt or rim to properly chamber to. ran a case neck too far on 50 cases and almost every one miss-fired due to the primer being too far away from the pin. dont have that to worrie with when i meet ol grizz in a tight spot any more...all have a rim or belt to chamber against so that primer stays rite where is is spose to be.

that 300 h&h will serve you well and im confident the rifle you wrap around it will do the same.

[scb]

The No. 1 (3) is Bill Ruger's homage to John Moses and a fine tribute.



The #1 (#3) is an updated copy of a Farquharson.
http://luxusgunstock.com/500ne-1.jpg
(image form http://luxusgunstock.com/html/body_500ne.html)

oldred, Very nice work.

[lbaize3]

I have a Ruger #1 in 45-70 that I really, really, really like. I have never had a Winchester high or low wall. But I really, really, really want a low wall in 32-20 with double set triggers.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

WOW SCB, that is one class gun.

That piece of French walnut is real eye candy as is the color case hardning on the action!

Have stocked a #1 barreled action a time or two, and wow what a beautiful end result.

CDOC

[scb]

WOW SCB, that is one class gun.

That's what I thought as well. Fantastic craftsmanship. There are a few other pix's on the link provided.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks SCB, I had't noticed the link.

Still one class firearm!!!!!!!!!!!! A beauty for sure.

However, sure glad that Bill Ruger and company saw fit to give the design the "RUGER" treatment, for a number of reasons.

#1, Ruger put a class single shot into the hands of people such as myself, where I could NEVER afford to own a rifle such as the one pictured.

And #2, after looking at the link, clearly Ruger retained the finer points of a great gun and greatly improved the lines and contour of the action. Much trimmer and smoother.

Kind of like the Public Broadcasting "road show" where they show a lot of really nice and many times VERY pricey vintage items, I'd quickly say, "SOLD" knowing that for the value of that great English rifle, I could buy a number of #1 Rugers and have great fun and enjoyment using and handling my plain Ol'RUGER #1.

Sure fun to look!!!!!!!!!! EYE candy kind of like going to the COOPER OF MONTANA web site and slobbering over the rifles they sell, or the Sharps rifle sites ---- What beautiful examples of the craftsmans art in gun making!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[218bee]

Thanks for all the input guys. What I need to do now is try and save some coin. Hard to do with a son in college and a daughter who will be next year. I expect them to pay for 80% or so of their education but dont want them to be saddled with debt when they get out either.
If only I would have thought to marry an eskimo maybe the govt would give me some financial aid.
That homemade rifle is very gorgeous and I wish I had the talent to make one half as nice. The Farquarson is also gorgeous.
I like the 300H&H as its old and just a little different. Not intended as a SHTF rifle. I know its just a souped up 30/06, but whats wrong with that. I always leaned toward cartridges that have fallen out of favor which is why I like the 222RemMag, 6mmRem,257Robts,35Rem,218Bee,6.5Swede,etc.. I realize there are more modern cartridges that may be ballistically better but none of the above make me feel wanting something different.
Anyway I appreciate the input and thoughts and IF I can get the cash together I will certainly post what I get and my results with it.

[smith54]

I have used the Ruger's for years and I really like them. I have a Browning B78 in 22-250 which shoots great, but I like the #1 better--aesthetics I guess. I have some #1's chambered in the heavy hitters like the 505 Gibbs and the .577 Nitro and they work flawlessly. The 300 H&H is a grand old cartridge. The 300 Win. mag might be good choice also. Good luck on whatever you decide--single shot rifles are addictive.

[shovel80]

Ol Red...that is a truly amazing and Beautiful Job!....

Terry

[oldred]

Thanks, I had always liked those high walls but a really nice original or a new Winchester/Browning was just more than I wanted to spend so I used an original that belongs to a buddy of mine as an example to copy. I made what I consider some improvements in the 100+ year old design by securing the trigger group internally and mounting the sear in a carrier instead of suspending it on a pin run through the receiver like the originals. This eliminates the two screw heads that show on the outside of the originals and also the sear pin ends that would normally appear just under the hammer on an original, it was done to give a cleaner outward appearance but also allows for trigger adjustment which was an added benefit. I built this rifle on a 14x40 lathe using a milling attachment since I don't yet own a milling machine but it was a fun project and I am now in the planning stage of building a much lighter scaled down version, probably a 17 HMR.

[OuchHot!]

oldred that rifle is magnificent. I envy your skill and art. How did you broach the breechblock race ways? thanks

[oldred]

Fitting the breechblock seemed to be one of the more challenging tasks at first but in the end turned out to be not so difficult. I toyed with the idea of using a broach but the inside corners need a slight radius for strength and this would have required a special broach so I had to come up with another way. What I did was to start with a drilled hole at the correct 7 degree angle to the breech face and then I milled it out to the point in the pic below with a long 1/4" end mill, this left it with a 1/8" radius in the corners. Since the raceways were now to the proper dimensions except for the corner radius it was as simple as using a small file with a safe edge so that only metal in the corners was removed, by using the finished-to-size breechblock and lay-out fluid to insure bearing surfaces were left untouched the corners were easily fitted. This resulted in a very closely fitted block that slides smoothly with no detectable slop.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh269/dwmiracle/IMG_3724.jpg

[OuchHot!]

thanks! IT was buggin me how you did that. Very nice work.

[Typecaster]

I have original highwalls (3), #1s (3), and #3s (2). Wow…don't tell my wife that I have that many.

All are fun and elegant, but I'd give the nod to the highwall for a classic design, especially with a Unertl scope. What a combination! Kind of like the Browning .22 Automatic with the old 3/4" Redfield 4x—another lovely combination. Which leads me to my wish list—

What I'd REALLY like, though, is to find someone who makes aftermarket #3-style finger levers for a #1. Any suggestions?

Richard

[Flinchrock]

Somewhat off topic maybe,,,but what do folks think about the Uberti Highwall???

[Typecaster]

OK, I sit corrected. The latch arrangement is different between a #1 and #3. My wish won't work.

Richard

[218bee]

oldred....again I envy your skill.
I tried makin a double barrel shotgun once by strappin together two single shots with balin wire...didnt work too well :redneck:

[WinMike]

I'm going to resurrect this thread.....just saw oldred's work, and I'm in awe. I hope you post more photos when it's finished.

As to the original OP's question, I don't have a high wall answer.....but, FWIW, I owned a Ruger #3 in 22 Hornet (I think they made them in only 22 Hornet and 45-70!). Anyway, I never could get it to shoot, so when the Browning Low Walls came out ('93-'94?), I bought one in 22 Hornet. Accurate out of the box; I still have it, and it will put many bullets into tiny holes @ 100 yds.

I liked it so much I bought one in .223, .243 and .260. But that's another story.

[Guy La Pourque]

If I were to consider this a 'one gun solution' I would go with the Ruger and hate myself for it.

I have a No.1 and it is superbly accurate (25-06 Varminter, does 1/2 ~ 3/4" groups all day with pet loads). It ain't bad to look at, and it has taken the bumps and knocks of a camp rifle and keeps on ticking. Everyone sells them, everyone can afford one, and the gunsmiths know them inside out. For practicality, for me - the Ruger has it hands down.

But practicality be damned - I see the octagonal barrels, the exposed hammers and the fine wood of the 1885 - and cost be damned, I am going to have one shortly. The gun has soul, history, romance and nostalgia that the Ruger does not.

[Ed in North Texas]

The thread author would like to have a rifle chambered in .300 H&H.
That means Holland & Holland ... a European rifle and shotgun maker who still puts a thousand hours into every gun they turn out.
Absolutely every part is hand fitted to every other part within the gun.

CM

Charlie - Don't say that too loud. The Brits are kind of touchy when it comes to someone calling them "Europeans". :bigsmyl2:

Ed

[WinMike]

The Brits are kind of touchy when it comes to someone calling them "Europeans".

Well, you could use the terminology my sainted Irish Grandpa used: "G*d#@)@!*n murder'n thievin' no-good Brit ba&^%*s^ds!" :Fire:

And he didn't care how touchy they might be.....!

[209jones]

I have and have had a few Rugers and have 3 Miroku highwalls,two are Browning and one is Winchester (the 300H&H). I prefer the Octagon barrel and the look of the 1885, the Brownings had better wood than the Ruger, the Winchester wood is mediocre at best. At present I like the Winchester 2012 calibre offerings moreso than the Ruger ( I am trying to acquire a 6.5x55 Low Wall). It really comes down to what calibre you want it in, as to which to get. Ruger 300H&H is still readily avail NIB, 1885 in 300H&H & 375H&H is gone from Win site now. Like any rifle you buy, you may get a sweetheart that shoots what you want right off the bat, or you may get one that is finicky or obstinate.

Nice work there Oldred, that looks like a sweetie.

[williamwaco]

They are both beautiful rifles.
I think I kinda lean towards the Ruger for looks.
I would trust either with any cartridge they can chamber.

I have owned five or six Rugers in various calibers.
None of them were acceptably accurate.
Two to three MOA +/- getting progressively worse as they warm up.
( I do understand that they can be "made" into tack drivers. I am not interested in that. )

I have two of the Winchesters and both did MOA out of the box.


Pay your money and take your choice. I would NOT worry about the strength of either.


.

[NSB]

I have and have had a few Rugers and have 3 Miroku highwalls,two are Browning and one is Winchester (the 300H&H). I prefer the Octagon barrel and the look of the 1885, the Brownings had better wood than the Ruger, the Winchester wood is mediocre at best. At present I like the Winchester 2012 calibre offerings moreso than the Ruger ( I am trying to acquire a 6.5x55 Low Wall). It really comes down to what calibre you want it in, as to which to get. Ruger 300H&H is still readily avail NIB, 1885 in 300H&H & 375H&H is gone from Win site now. Like any rifle you buy, you may get a sweetheart that shoots what you want right off the bat, or you may get one that is finicky or obstinate.

Nice work there Oldred, that looks like a sweetie.

You can still buy NIB Win High Walls in both calibers on gunbroker.com They are offering some fantastic deals on these right now. You can get either for between 800-900 dollars. List is around 1400.