Forster Bench Rest Seating Die question

[Tom Myers]

I have been setting up my Loadmaster to load cast bullets in 30-30 Winchester caliber.

My Cases are all neck turned, annealed and fire formed..

A new over sized mandrill for the Lee Collete die was turned to 0.310 inches and leaves the neck absolutely concentric with the case body and just 0.001" under my 0.312 sized Ranch Dog C311-170-RF bullets.

All goes well until the bullet seating stage and the Lee Dead Length Seater just doesn't cut the mustard. None of the bullets end up concentric and some of the bullets and necks are at least 10-12 thousandths out of line.

I need a good in line seater that can be can be used in a progressive setup and also adapted to seat cast bullets.

Doe anyone know if a 30-30 Forster Bench Rest Seating Die is constructed so that the 0.308" neck sleeve and seating stem can be replaced with a 303 British 0.311" neck sleeve and seating stem?

Thanks all.

[Sonnypie]

Good question, Tom.
How about you call them?
Here's the page with their Number. (http://www.forsterproducts.com/contactus.asp?catid=19938&fileID=24817)
Using cast boolits opens a whole new realm of worms to be sorted out.
Here is a Forester bench rest page (http://www.forsterproducts.com/store.asp?pid=34621) that shows a break down of die parts. And here is the same but for the micrometer type (http://www.forsterproducts.com/store.asp?pid=34618).

If you have a single stage press, you could try seating a few that way and see if the condition improves. (Before giving up on the Lee die)
Personally, I load all my rifle ammo single stage. I actually tried it in my progressive, but felt I should just go back to my old ways, and leave the progressive for my pistol loading.

I wanted to get away from my 30 caliber button expander (mine is not removable). So I took the decapping pin assembly from a 270 die set, and put it in another die to do my decapping with. And it works great for my needs.
Then after cleaning, I can neck size my brass and it hasn't been changed from fire-formed by a button being shoved in it, and drawn back out.

Point being, I guess, is that you can often move things from one die to another to fine tune it to your needs.

And finally, what I did with my Lee Dead Length Seater die was to remove the top, turn the pusher upside down, so I have a flat faced pusher to seat my Lyman 311291, 170g cast bullets. And that really works great for me!
No fiddling around, just a nice flat face against the rounded cast bullet tip seating the bullet. I think I'm getting decent results (http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny%27s/PB020361.JPG).
(And I can always turn it back over for pointed FMJ bullets. What it was designed for.)
As cast boolit users, we are like the poor red headed step children to the industry. A bunch of non-conformists. :|

[felix]

Yes sir, Tom! I have several custom FL dies made by those folks, and they are my choice vendor for such dies. I prefer the FL sizing by them too, because they know how to fit them for the gun and boolit style. Send them fully expanded cases WITH the boolits you are going to load. Inform them the amount of seating friction and crimp desired as well. Have them turn in the case mouth just enough to hide the case mouth for not letting the boolit seat deeper under recoil. ... felix

I forgot to mention to have them make the shell holder for the dies too. Height of holder should adjust the die to do zero headspace. Turning the die down further will shorten the brass so that after press rebound the case headspace will be zero. This is why I want FL sizer...to size any range pickup to fit the gun perfectly. ... felix

[Doc Highwall]

I have reamed them to .3120" for seating my .310" to .311" bullets in my 308Winchester, then made a custom seater to fit the SAECO #315 bullet.

[Tom Myers]

I have reamed them to .3120" for seating my .310" to .311" bullets in my 308Winchester, then made a custom seater to fit the SAECO #315 bullet.

I had thought about that but I have no way of reaming them About all I could do is try to hone them with emery paper on a split stick in a hand held drill. A couple of thousandths isn't too difficult to do but I am worried about being able to hone out enough and still be concentric.

Are the neck inserts really hard? Would they need to be annealed before attempting an enlargement?

I e-mailed Forster about the feasibility of substituting the 30-30 neck sleeve with a 303 British neck sleeve and they replied something to the effect that I should only shoot 30-30 ammunition in a 30-30 rifle. I e-mailed them again explaining that was not my intention and just what I was attempting to accomplish but never received a reply, so not much help there.

[Tom Myers]

Yes sir, Tom! I have several custom FL dies made by those folks, and they are my choice vendor for such dies. I prefer the FL sizing by them too, because they know how to fit them for the gun and boolit style. Send them fully expanded cases WITH the boolits you are going to load. Inform them the amount of seating friction and crimp desired as well. Have them turn in the case mouth just enough to hide the case mouth for not letting the boolit seat deeper under recoil. ... felix

I forgot to mention to have them make the shell holder for the dies too. Height of holder should adjust the die to do zero head space. Turning the die down further will shorten the brass so that after press rebound the case head space will be zero. This is why I want FL sizer...to size any range pickup to fit the gun perfectly. ... felix

Felix,
That looks like the way to go if loading with a single stage.
What I am attempting is simplicity, rapidity, consistency, concentricity, repeatability and reasonable accuracy through using a Loadmaster press.

With the collet sizing and de-capping die, the necks are concentric and sized to 0.310" and I can eliminate lubing and subsequent removal of the lube.

At present, in the priming station, I am using a backed out 38-55 sizing die with the de-capping stem replaced with a 0.310" expander and belling step which leaves the necks concentric after the slight belling.

The powder charging station uses a Lee Perfect Measure which drops very consistent charges of case-filling powder.

Then comes the seating die station. No concentricity control whatsoever.

Last is the Lee factory crimp die. It does an excellent job, does not affect the concentricity of the finished round and eliminates the need to check for length once the case has been initially trimmed.

Selecting loaded rounds that are concentric results in excellent accuracy while those that resemble a dogs hind leg shoot all over the place.

If I can eliminate the seating concentricity problem, the loading process can be a model of simplicity. Gather up empty brass - tumble (or not) - load - shoot.

[felix]

Tom, I agree with what you are doing whole heartedly. I make approximately 200 rounds per year, if and when I make rifle rounds, so operational speed is of no concern to me. My bench gun uses hand dies made with the same reamers as the barrel was finished with, eliminating all concentric problems. When a factory gun shoots good, then that gun gets the custom Bonanza/Forester dies. Trimming is not necessary for the most part once the case finally fits the gun. ... felix

[Larry Gibson]

I e-mailed Forster about the feasibility of substituting the 30-30 neck sleeve with a 303 British neck sleeve and they replied something to the effect that I should only shoot 30-30 ammunition in a 30-30 rifle. I e-mailed them again explaining that was not my intention and just what I was attempting to accomplish but never received a reply, so not much help there.

I would just order the 303 seating sleeve. They are no doubt the same external size for ease of manufacture. You may have to take a little off the top or bottom but it should work fine.

Larry Gibson

[garym1a2]

I have a loadmaster and the way the shellplate moves on loading I do not consider it a geat machine for seating rifle bullets to the same length everytime. I use mine only for 9mm, 40, 45 type work. The rifles go on the classic cast turrent.

[Tom Myers]

I telephoned Forster this morning and asked what could be done. I spoke with 3 different persons and each was pleasant, courteous and willing to do whatever was necessary to get the job done.

Someone also recognized my name from the email that I had sent and apologized for not answering sooner as they were somewhat busy and short handed.

As the 30-30 Bench Rest Seating Die is the only one they make that utilizes a crimping process, the neck cannot simply be reamed, they will need to hone the neck portion out to the size needed and then use a 0.311 seating stem. A lot more work for them but they are only charging their flat fee of $12.00 for the extra work.

I just received a nice email from them stating that the die is being processed to my specifications and if, after I receive the die and all is not to my satisfaction, I am to contact them and they will make it right.

Now that is superb customer service. I just wish that they manufactured dies for the larger straight walled cases. I would be sending a lot more business their way.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been using Forster (formerly Bonanza) products for years and have several sets of their benchrest dies. I also have used the Forster trimmer (have 3 + the drill press trimmer) that I trim, outside neck turn and HP with. Nothing but good products and good service from Forster:)

Larry Gibson