H&R 32 S&W Top Break

[leadman]

I stopped in a pawn shop today and was looking at the guns when I spied this old H&R in the case. Now I need some help figuring out if this is a black powder gun or smokeless.
From an internet search I got this info.:

The address and patent date are on the top of the rib on the barrel, should be made between 1891-1919.

The serial number is under the left grip panel at the bottom. made between 1890-1906.

The cartridge name is on the left side of the barrel in front of the cylinder, should be a smokeless frame.

It has probably been fired with smokeless as the is debris in there barrel and no corrosion.

Now I need to find brass and maybe a die set.

[Larry Gibson]

Sweet!

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

I thought it was sweet too Larry. It is in very good shape and as tight as any I have seen.

From looking on the web it is right at the break point for black to smokeless.

I looked thru all my stash or brass and found 3 cases, 1 modern solid head and 2 balloon cases. The balloon head cases were loaded when I found them a long time ago. when I broke them down they were loaded with black powder.

[RicinYakima]

Leadman,

I have been shooting my 1914 vintage Hopkins and Allen and 1922 Iver Johnson with 7 grains of black powder, just to be safe. It is a little more work, but what a kick. The H&A is a Safety Police with a six inch barrel. I have used 1.4 grains of new Bullseye, but that load splits most of the old balloon head cases.

Ric

[jh45gun]

Look under the grips if coil spring should be smokeless.Flat spring BP

[canyon-ghost]

Nice H&R! Love to see that one.

[leadman]

I think I found out what this gun is. According to Bill Goforth (deceased) on TheFirearmsForum
in a posting on 3-23-2009 answering another members question he posted some info that I used to identify my gun.

It is a Premier Second model small frame top break, third variation,caliber only marked on left side of the barrel, patent date 10-8-95, made 1909-1913.

Since the caliber date is marked on the left side of the barrel this is a smokeless action.
This madel was made from 1905 to 1941.

I found other references on other sites to the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel as a smokeless action. I think this is correct as Numrich has parts schematics for this gun and all of the main springs are flat steel.

Should be a fun little plinker. Wish I was 30 years younger so I could actually see these little sights!

[Bret4207]

I have it's twin from IJ! In fact it's the only 6" IJ I've ever seen. Love the gun, hate the "sights", if you can call them sights.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd think it would shoot very well with the Hornady or Speer HBWCs over a small dose of Bullseye?

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

SWEET little roller ya got there!

[NoZombies]

Ive kicked myself several times for passing up a similar gun in .32 S&W long. it was in nice shape, but the timing was a little off. I couldn't see the sights, and I wasn't sure I wanted to put forth the effort to get the timing back up to snuff.

Is the cylinder bored straight through on that one, or is it counter-bored?

[leadman]

It is counterbored so it has throats.

Picked up a box of new Winchester 32 S&W ammo today for it, now have to order the dies.

[revolvergeek]

That is a slick little .32! Congrats!

[Olevern]

beautiful find, keep it and enjoy shootiing it. When your eyes get too old to see those tiny sites you can always get your money back selling it to a collector.

[leadman]

Got the dies on order but I am having problems finding a load with Unique and the 93gr RN boolit. Lots of data out there for the 32 S&W Long, but very little for the "short".

I will call Alliant on Monday and ask for some data. Might also call Hodgdons also.

Anyone shoot the Lee boolit in their 32 S&W and want to share their load data?

[Fishman]

Leadman, if you haven't found any brass yet, send me a pm. I could give you a hundred once fired 32 s&w.

I haven't loaded any yet, but as I recall, the load I found for the 93 grain lee was only 1.0 gr of bullseye. Please verify this before using.

[Fishman]

I did some looking and found this thread with some good information:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=123401

In this thread, NoZombies recommends 1.0 gr of bullseye with the 93 grain lee bullet. Since he is a fan of all things .32, I'd bet that is pretty good info.

I also found a load from a 1997 date Winchester loadbook. It drives an 85 grain lead bullet at 595 fps with 1.4 grains of 231. Pressure is 9,500 cup. I think you could use this to obtain a safe load for the 93 grain lee.

[NoZombies]

Yup, the 1.0 grain bullseye load has worked in my dad's old top break S&W pretty well. I don't shoot it often, or for score, but it will ventilate a tin can just fine with that load.

I still haven't cronographed the load, but I'm betting the velocity is shy of 600 FPS from my guns 3" barrel.

Good luck, and remember that same set of dies will load the long cartridge (and probably .32 H&R mag too) so you can find your next .32 without worrying about the dies :Fire:

[Mk42gunner]

Yup, the 1.0 grain bullseye load has worked in my dad's old top break S&W pretty well. I don't shoot it often, or for score, but it will ventilate a tin can just fine with that load.

I still haven't cronographed the load, but I'm betting the velocity is shy of 600 FPS from my guns 3" barrel. I'm thinking it might be around 450 or so, Lyman says 1.0 Bullseye behind an 84 grain 313249 is doing 468.

Good luck, and remember that same set of dies will load the long cartridge (and probably .32 H&R mag too) so you can find your next .32 without worrying about the dies :Fire:

Unless you get one in .32 Short or Long Colt

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, third edition has some data for .32 S&W. They say to use only the starting loads in top break revolvers. (I didn't come up with this, another member posted it a few days ago).

Good luck, I like that little gun.

Robert

[leadman]

Fishman, thanks for the offer of the brass. I bought a box of Winchester 32s so have enough brass for now.
I must have 15 different shotgun/pistol powders but no Bullseye or 231. Since it is Monday I will call a couple of the powder companies and get some recommendations.

Was on Backpage here in Phx. this morning and there is almost the same revolver for sale except it is nickel plated and a 22lr. They are asking $245, I paid $129 out the door.

[Fishman]

Fishman, thanks for the offer of the brass. I bought a box of Winchester 32s so have enough brass for now.
I must have 15 different shotgun/pistol powders but no Bullseye or 231. Since it is Monday I will call a couple of the powder companies and get some recommendations.

Was on Backpage here in Phx. this morning and there is almost the same revolver for sale except it is nickel plated and a 22lr. They are asking $245, I paid $129 out the door.

Well if you get to having too much fun with it and need some more brass just ask.

I picked up an H&R Young America revolver to play with a while back and the cylinder doesn't always index reliably in double action. It's got a 2.5" barrel so it isn't the target variety :) I'm hoping it's just gummed up inside but I haven't gotten around to poking about and finding out.

[leadman]

Hodgdon had just one load for the 32 S&W with a lighter boolit and 231, Alliant's tech is off until after the first, Accurate I had to leave a message for. Glad they have plans for the holidays.

I may buy some TrailBoss like the Hodgdon tech suggested.

[NoZombies]

1.0 grains of tite-group will do the trick as well, if you have any of that handy.

[leadman]

I got some data using #2 from Accurate so may load soon.

I took it to the range yesterday and shot some of the Winchester factory ammo. Velocity was around 550 to 600 fps. This ammo is very dirty and was not very accurate, not that I expected it to be a tackdriver. Shot about 6" low and to the right at 10 yards. Group? was about 12" at least.

The muzzle crown has a little damage to it so I hope after I correct it that the group will shrink some. Reloading may also help.

Still a fun little toy, but man is the hammer spring stout!

[leadman]

Well, I took the H&R to the range Thursday with loads from Accurate in tow.
The start load was .6grs of #2. The first shot was very low recoil and no hole in the 4' X 4' target at 10 yards. I opened the gun and checked to make sure the boolit had left the barrel. All was good so I thought a minute and decided to fire another of the same load, knowing what the outcome could be. This time the boolit did not make it out of the barrel and could be seen right at the muzzle. I put it in the case and easily removed the boolit at home.

Accurates data was for a 4" barrel and if my gun had a 4" the boolit would have left the barrel LOL! It probably would not have made it to the target though.

Accurates data has .9grs as max so I am going to try some .8gr loads to start next time. I would like to try some Unique or 700X but have no data so am going to write a couple more e-mails.

[NoZombies]

Yeah, the ultra-small case capacity with the relatively large (vs capacity) bore diameter mean that smaller charge increments produce larger disparity in velocity.

If you were closer, I'd give you a half a pound of bullseye or tight-group. It would last you years if you just used it for the .32 S&W.

[leadman]

I managed to find some data for Unique with a 85gr boolit so will reduce this slightly and give it a try. Also e-mailed Alliant so will wait until they answer before loading.

I did notice that the Win factory load and the 2 shots of my reloads are extremely dirty. Looks more like I am firing blackpowder than smokeless.

[leadman]

I pulled a boolit out of the Win factory case today and it was interesting. The SAAMI spec for the bullet in the 32 S&W is .315", my barrel is .3135", cylinder throats are .314".
The Win boolit was swaged at .310", pure lead, no lube! Do ya think this could be why it does not shoot very well?!

I loaded some cases today with Unique and 700X and .313" boolits. these are 30 to 1 lead/tin so I hope they bump up a little. The mold is dropping at the .313" so if these don't work I'll try pure lead and then maybe an inverted gas check.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

So far i have just shot my little Iver Johnson 1904 32 s&w with Winchester factory ammo , i bought the box about 8 years ago and it was about 15 dollars , i never really shot it very much. i paid almost as much for that box of ammo as i did for the gun. it came with a fair amount of pitting but for a little old pocket gun it shoots strait enough

it is so low pressure brass should last a long time

the 2 book loads i see for it are 1.2 gr hp-38 with a max of 1.4gr and 1.4gr win 231 listed as both starting and max

[leadman]

Ben at Alliant wrote me back stating they had no data for the 32 S&W. Hard to imagine.

If my loads don't work when I test them then I may buy some TrailBoss. Just hate to spend more money on powder when I have so many already.

[leadman]

I finally had some sucess this week with the 32S&W. Tried some "quesstimated" loads with Unique and 700X. The starting loads were dirty and not very accurate, but my "max" loads had cleaned up and where about 2" at 10 yards. I consider that pretty decent considering the sights on this gun and my old eyes.
I will load some more to confirm the loads, but it looks like the 700X is a little cleaner than the Unique.

[olafhardt]

I got a 3" Premier off the web. It was a mess but cleaned up OK.. I made a 0.2 ccdipper out of a 22short case filed down a little. I used this with 231 and a single hornady -0-buckshot seated to a OAL of 0.88 ". I think this load was a little hot as the gun seems a little loose now. I think the gun had hardly been fired and is still breaking in. I am going to do some more filing on that dipper. I used Win brass and WSP.

[Denny303]

lots of good info in this thread, i bought an h&r 32s&w a couple years back, idk why but i love the top break! im ready to start loading for it after i get some brass and bullets. i like the buckshot idea for plinking around may have to look into that. will have to get me a lee mold too.

[troy_mclure]

i just got my great grandfathers h&r top break 3" revolver in .32s&w.

ive been loading up .5cc(4.9gr) pyrodex under a 0 buck(.320), 49gr round ball. its fairly accurate at 7 yds.

quite a bit of fun to shoot.

[.5mv^2]

I have a break top 32 sw that I have shot some low powered 1.5 g of w231 in 32acp brass. I push the bullets in so they don't look like 32acp's. I have them firing some Berry plated bullets.

[Denny303]

.5 that load according to hodgdons data is just over max load in the 32 s&w but under loaded for the ACP, might be a lil on the danger side especially with the ACP case in a S&w chamber, even tho the slight rim on the ACP might keep it from pushing thru the cylinder. not tryin to preach, just lookin out for ya

[gunfan]

I LIKE it!

Scott

[leadman]

I cast some of the Lee 93gr RN out of 30/1 and sized to .313", loaded 700X with 1.1grs being the best load.
Got a little leading in the barrel just ahead of the forcing cone so will try some unsized boolits next trip.
My barrel measures .3145" but I don't have a a .314" or .315" sizer so will try them unsized. May have to get a sizer if they won't chamber.

Average group size with the .313" boolits runs about 3" at 10 yards. The gun is probably more accurate than that but the tinyyyyyy sights on this gun are a chore to line up. Oh to be 25 again!

Anyway it is shooting pretty good considering what it is and the age. It never fails to draw attention at the range.