My new NYS 50-70 Rolling Block

[Garys007]

I finally got a chance to get some pictures. Took the last couple of days taking it apart and cleaning it up real well.

It's in excellent shape and I just needed to clean out some of the gunk down in the receiver assembly. Bore is beautiful with no pitting or rust at all.

Now I just need to slug the barrel and then get a mold, brass, dies, etc... so I can shoot it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_205684ee5ead27dd5d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2961)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_205684ee5eadecc463.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2962)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_205684ee5eb46d0a81.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2963)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_205684ee5eb5038acd.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2964)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_205684ee5ec189e14b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2965)

[school of mines]

That's a dandy! I have been looking for a nice NYS 50-70 roller and haven't managed it yet. Let us know what the barrel slugs at. I'm curious!

[leadman]

That is a great looking rifle. I am sure you will enjoy it.

[218bee]

I love the 50/70. Rifle looks great and I bet you'll be suprised at how well itll shoot.
May I suggest Lyman 515141 or see if ya can get in on GroupBuy for a hollow base version.
And Black Powder of course....have fun

[Garys007]

Thanks guys. I can't wait to shoot it. Someone just pointed me to the group buy and I am definitely in. Perfect timing.

Black powder is the only way to go with this rifle.

[Hang Fire]

Whoa, that rifle is sweet.

[bigted]

so what is the difference in messurements in the action/hammer area on this roller as compared to a 1902 version?

[StrawHat]

ALways nice to see another 50-70 getting ready to be used. I like mine (Trapdoor) better than the 45-70. Hits harder and somehow it is easier to work up acceptable loads for it.

Here is a link to the GB mentioned in Post #4.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=116326

[45bpcr]

I've been shooting mine a bit.

The only mold I have for it is the Lee 902066 I belive. The 515 grain one.

I've used black powder and a very light load of Trail Boss 9 grains

The Trail Boss load is nearly silent but will keep 10 shots in 3 inches at 100 yds.

45bpcr

[Garys007]

Bigted, what measurements in the receiver are you referring to? I'd be happy to take a measurement of my rifle for you.

StrawHat, I can't wait to shoot it. I have a while before I can purchase all of the components that I need. I already jumped on that GB. It sucks that I have to wait till April. In the mean time, I'm going to pick up a Lee mold to hold me over till I get the NOE mold.

[John Boy]

Gary, here is the description of the NY State Militia 50-70 Remington Rolling Block rifle:

New York State Militia Model 1871 Remington Rolling Block Rifle - caliber 50-70 Govt

The .50-70 rolling block rifle remained the standard arm of the New York State Militia until the late 1890s. These rifles had the locking-action (with half-cock safety) that was used in the Springfield Model 1871. The configuration is a three-band rifle with 36-inch barrel, slotted screw-in cleaning rod which ends one inch short of the muzzle, and trigger-guard mounted rear sling swivel. The only receiver markings are the Remington patent dates, ending in 1871, on the upper tang. The hammer is unique in having an unusually high spur, the breechblock spur protrudes horizontally, and both have shield-shaped checkering (rather than the usual simple cross-hatching). There may be up to three cartouches on the buttstock; on the left, RPB on the wrist and HSH in the middle, and on the right wrist, SNY, but some guns will have the HSH in a serpentine banner outline on the left wrist. The bayonet is a Remington angular-bladed socket bayonet.

The rifle will shoot famously with the original 450gr bullet - with black powder of course. ;-) Here is a picture of my 50-70 'Famous Miss' on a 1000yd target. The little spinner was 2' to the right of the target that I was shooting at - a windy day. My spotter said - 'That sucker had to be doing 150 mph when hit :D
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Ridgway%20May%202009/IMGP0220.jpg

[MtGun44]

Thanks for the mention of the HB Group Buy! I just went over and asked to be on the
list for my NY RB.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

Thanks for the mention of the HB Group Buy! I just went over and asked to be on the
list for my NY RB.

Bill

Ditto.

[218bee]

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on that group buy mold. I think its gonna be fun. I shoot the Lyman 515141 now in my Trapdoor and itll be nice to try something new. You're gonna love the cartridge. I wish my eyes were better to use the Trapdoor for hunting but I have enough trouble seein a target in bright light....its hell to get old. I do have a roller action I may put a 50/70 barrel on and try and get it scoped so I can hunt with it.

[bigted]

garys007...thanks for the offer for the meassurements on your new to ya roller.

ive been told that the 50-70 will probably need to have some metal removed from the hammer if i re-barrel mine to the 50-70 so i was wondering what is different on your remington then my 1902 #5 roller that is chambered in 7x57 mauser. i am thinking about re-barreling it to the 50-70 cartridge since i know that rifles such as yours were so chambered so the only thing i can think is that some how they made the action a little different in meassurements.

i guess the meassurements i would look at would be;

thickness of overall action at the barrel.

distance from the top of action to the top of roller when open.

distance from the barrel face to the tip of the full cocked hammer tip that hits the fire pin.

distance from barrel face to the front of the action where the barrel screws into the action and the forend attaches.

i will hardly be surprised if all these meassurements will all be the same rifle to rifle so maybe im not seeing what he is talking about.

thanks for your time and meassurements in advance.

Ted

[Ed in North Texas]

BigTed - I suspect the answer as to why metal would need to be removed from the hammer is clearance to load the .50-70. I don't know that is the case, but with the substantially wider case it seems logical that the nose of the hammer on the 7mm No. 5 action might stick up a bit too high to allow the larger case to be loaded without interference.

Ed

[Garys007]

Ted,

Here is what I measured:

thickness of overall action at the barrel.

1.32"

distance from the top of action to the top of roller when open.

Not sure what measurement you are looking for.

distance from the barrel face to the tip of the full cocked hammer tip that hits the fire pin.

1.67"

distance from barrel face to the front of the action where the barrel screws into the action and the forend attaches.

1.47"

I hope this helps

Gary

[bigted]

thanks gary. i apreciate that. it will give me the opertunity to see if there is any apreciatable difference betwixt these actions.

[Swampman]

Anyone have any smokeless loads for the .50-70?

[gandydancer]

Anyone have any smokeless loads for the .50-70?
sure do. from accurate arms using 5744 50/70 bullet 425 L 30 grains--1419 vel

bullet 550 Lead 25 grains 1208 vel all loads are from accurate arms over 20 years ago

good luck getch

PS love all of them ol rolling blocks. puchased 5 of them from George Layman in the late 90's George wrote a book on rolling blocks.

[atr]

Beautiful rifle !!!!

[bowfin]

I am glad to see that rifle fall into the hands of someone who will enjoy it at the range. It gives other people a chance to enjoy it as well when they get to see it, look at one of the cartridges, ask some questions and then see it shoot.

[Ed in North Texas]

Anyone have any smokeless loads for the .50-70?

I'll dig some up for you tomorrow. It's kind of late to go diggin out load books right now.

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

Swampman - forgot to ask what boolit you have, or were planning to use. You might want to find a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3d Edition ( probably the 1st two editions also - check with a local library?). It has loads for 515139 (334 gr) 515141 (422 gr), 512138 (440 gr) and 515142 (498 gr) - all weights in No. 2 alloy. Their loads use several smokeless powders, Black, Pyrodex and each lists a duplex load too.

I checked Loaddata for the latest Lyman Cast manual. If Loaddata has all the entries from the 4th edition, there are no BP or Duplex loads listed in #4.

[Garys007]

Bowfin,

It's funny you mention that. I went to the range Saturday and as I was setting up to shoot, the local cowboy action group was setting up for one of their meets and happened to see my Pedersoli Sharps rifle sitting in the gun rack. I would have had my Rolling Block, but I'm just finishing up loading my first rounds for it. Well, boy, they came over and started discussing various black powder guns.

They asked me to come down to their next shoot. I told the them that I didn't have all of the guns needed and guess what, they offered to let me use whatever guns I didn't have. I think some of the nicest people you will meet are fellow shooters.

A little later after shooting for a while, two guys come up to me and start asking about my rifle. They were shooting in a different pit completely on the other side of the range and heard a "different" rifle report and was curious as to what it was. Well when they saw how beautiful the rifle was and how big the cartridges were (45-70), they must have had a thousand questions.

These were 2 real young guys shooting AR's and had never seen or heard anything like it. I live on Long Island, NY and there's not a big following of this type of shooting. I offered to let them shoot a couple of rounds, but they were happy to just watch and see all of the smoke.

So it is fun to go out with these rifles and have people see and hear them.

[Ed in North Texas]

I finally got a round tuit and started loading a few rounds for the NYSM. Being anxious to get it shooting, I decided I'd just load a few rounds instead of fireforming the cases with a wad and COW filler. My Lyman 515141 throws a .5125 boolit from the soft scrap mix already in the Lyman pot.

Obviously I skipped the sizing step. When I went to run the first case through the M die, it would not enter the die. Checked further and the 515141, sized .512 in the 450, would not quite go in the case. So these new Starline cases aren't really big (checked several more, and none would enter the M die). I went ahead a loaded a few without the expander, the .512 boolits wouldn't quite go in, but pressed in without any shaving.

I also tried it with Buffalo's 12.7x44R formed from .348 Winchester cases. A .504 boolit would easily slip into the new case, but when I pressed the case a little way into the M die body, the .504 would no longer go into the case.

What was Lyman thinking? The .50-70 is nominally a .515, not a .500 (and I'm not sure a .500 wouldn't be too large for this die). Has anyone else had this problem? Or is this an error and I ought to see about Lyman fixing it?

If this is normal for the Lyman .50-70 die set, I guess I'm going to have to open the M die body, either the slow way myself (and how well does Crocus cloth, etc. work on these [ guess they are hardened] bodies?), or have someone do it for me.

Added Info: I called Buffalo Arms this morning to check with them and make sure I was correct that this is an aberration. It is and I've sent an e-Mail to Lyman to see what they will do about it. Apparently someone got the wrong M-2 die body when putting together the 50 R neck expansion die.

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

Lyman responded to the message, telling me to return the die for a new one. By that time I had tried to use the sizing die (if the brass fits the chamber, why use a sizing die) on the 12.7x44R new brass (a .504 slid almost to the bottom of the case). There is/are a burr/burrs on the threads of the sizing die, so I sent both dies back with a letter explaining what the problems were. So 2/3ds of the die set were missed by QC. I bought my first Lyman die set, along with a Spartan press, in 1967 after returning from RVN. I've never had a problem with Lyman dies before. I'm really disappointed.

Balancing that out, I took the NYSM RB to the range yesterday. I had dropped my eyeglass case at the tractor dealer, had to go get the glasses and the range was on the way. :-) With my old pair of glasses I couldn't see the rear sight (I don't know if my new glasses will be any better - presbyopia strikes again), though the front sight was OK. Pulled the front down until I couldn't see it any longer, then brought it back up to where I thought the top of the rear might be. I'll post a picture of the last group of 7 later (my youngest son met me there and after he had some fun with it, that was all the loaded rounds I had left).

[Ecramer]

I'm getting ready to load .50-70 for a 2nd Model Allin Conversion using new Lyman dies and a Lee 450-grain bullet. I'm crossing my fingers I don't have the same issues you've had.

[Ed in North Texas]

Here's some pix. Load was Lyman 515141 (as cast .5125, sized .512 homemade lube), Starline cases, Remington Magnum LR Primers, 70 grains (weighed) KIK 1.5 F, .30 Veg card wad, compressed by boolit covering all lube grooves.

Next time I take it to the range, I'll try my current glasses - which will probably result in worse performance than this. If I could see the rear sight, the elevation would take care of itself and I could drift the front sight if needed. Hold was dead center, 50 yards - group was 7 o'clock. As I said before, these 7 rounds were all that my son left me (but I didn't start with that many anyway as I was also fire forming 12.7x44R). Wish I could say I called the high one, but I'd have to see the sights to do that. :sad:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_174564f199971bb22d.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3519)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_174564f199988d2b4b.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3520)

Thumbnails turned out to work OK

Ed

[Ed in North Texas]

Update:

Lyman came through with new die bodies. And I had contacted Kenn at G.S. Womack about the existence of an aperture (peep) rear sight for the No. 1 Military Rolling Blocks. They exist, though there is no windage on them. And I sent a check out this morning for one. Screw holes match those of my NYSM, so I should be good to go.

Ed