.22 LR sporter accuracy

[peerlesscowboy]

What degree of accuracy should one expect from a good quality .22 long rifle bolt action sporter, specifically a Remington model 504?
From the box new I got 2 1/2 inch groups at 50 yards, Weaver V7 scope on Weaver "tip-off" mounts. That's like 5 moa :groner:
I've tried recrowning the muzzle, glass bedding the action & floating the barrel, then putting forend tip pressure back on the barrel, three different scopes and two different sets of mounts. 8 different kinds of ammo including even some old Federal "Gold Medal Match". Best accuracy so far has been with Winchester High Velocity Hollowpoints but that's only just under 2 inches At 50 yards, this is all from a sandbag rest on a good solid bench.
Beautiful little rifle but I'm thinking it should shoot better than this? Comments?..........suggestions??

John C. Saubak

[stubshaft]

Have you tried Wolf MT or SK match ammo? My box stock 597 went from 1 1/2 "@50 to .4" by using them. I've shot 4 five round groups with an aggregate average of .202"@ 25 with this same rifle/ammo combo.

Although there is no one absolute for which ammo will shoot well (match grade ELEY shot .75" @ 50) the rifle itself will tell you what it likes.

[LAH]

Call Remington & ask their standards for this rifle.

[bobthenailer]

I would send it back ! theres definatly something wrong !
I have a old REM 541 S with a Leupold 3.5x10 AO that will shoot a few brands of normal quality 22 lr ammo in 2 inches or less at 100 yards. Im not talking about match ammo !

[gnoahhh]

I wouldn't keep that rifle around very long. My standard for a "sporter" .22 is at least an inch at 50 yds. No more than ½" for a target rifle.

[high standard 40]

I also have a 541S with Leupold 10X and using Wolf Match Target, it will usually deliver about 1 1/4" groups for 5 shots at 100 yards.

One thing to consider. A 2 1/2" group at 50 yards will most likely open up to much larger than 5" at 100. Most standard rimfire ammo will provide decent groups at close range but group poorly at 100 yards. This is where match grade ammo really starts to shine. I shoot smallbore handgun silhouette and have tried a lot of ammo over the years. Just about anything will group well enough at 25 yards but it's at 100 where the real winner will rise to the top. I now shoot Wolf Match Target in most of my guns. I used CCI Standard for a few years but was getting occasional fliers at 100 yards that would ruin an otherwise good score.

All this being said, if your rifle can only deliver 2 1/2" at 50 yards with the ammo you tried, I'd consider finding it a new home.

[KCSO]

If a 22 won't shoot into an inch at 50 yards I don't consider it accurate. I have a 514 with a set of Redfield peep sights that will go into 1/2" at 50 and has went into 1 1/2 at 100 yards with no wind. I would also clean the barrel down to bare metal and then lap with JB's bore paste and see if that helps. The gun should do a lot better.

[williamwaco]

I have had really good results with Federal AM22 Auto Match.

I originally bought it because it was the only thing I could find that would reliably cycle my 1911 .22 conversion.

I then discovered that it is amazingly accurate. Sub 1" at 50 yards with a sporter ( Winchester M63 ) and around 1/2 inch from a Kimber M82.


About $15 for 325 at Walmart.



.

[Ickisrulz]

My CZ 452 shoots 1/2 groups (50 yards) with most of the "better" ammo. With Eley Match ($16 a box) it will shoot essentially one hole at 50 yards

[MBTcustom]

CZ 452 ultra lux .625 ten shot groups at 50 yards. (remington goldbullets 550 value-pack)
I got tired of dealing with BS like you are experiencing, and decided to find out what the most accurate, out-of-the-box .22 was. The answer across the board was CZ 452.
It is sad that American firearms manufacturers do not value accuracy anymore. Actually they seem to throw fit, form, and function out the window entirely leaving only a rifle that looks good from a distance.
I had a ruger 10-22 that would shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, brand new! (Ruger's blatant disregard for quality and accuracy is becoming legendary)
I bought a marlin bolt action .22 Mag that would only give me 2" groups at 50 yards.
I hated to give my money to the Check republic but American rifles cannot be depended on for accuracy.
Every now and then you might get an exceptional piece, but usually, you have to be ready to rebarrel to get good performance, as well as taking a few ounces worth of sharp edges off with a file, only then can you expect to get a decent rifle.
The one exception to this bleak situation could be Savage. They have always handled like junk and looked like junk, and had junky trigger pulls, but they have always been pretty accurate. And lately I have been very surprised by the improvements they have made to the look and feel of their latest rifles. If I were to buy a new American rifle at this point, it would almost surely be a savage.
I hope Remington will do right by you.

[Larry Gibson]

Hard to say as I've dealt with several M504s and they've all been "tack drivers". My owm M504 shoots the better match ammo and weight sorted cheaper bulk ammo (swaged in either Waltz die or Paco tool) into 1" or less at 100 yards (10 shot groups). 1/2" or less groups at 50 yards is common.

Larry Gibson

[725]

Some questions come to mind: What's the bore look like? Any dovetail cuts for sights? Hows the trigger? Is the chamber properly cut? (Lead / throat) Aside from that, I generally get best accuracy from standard velocity ammo. All in all, too much to have to do with, what is supposed to be, a quality rifle. I'd send it back.

[snowwolfe]

CZ 452 ultra lux .625 ten shot groups at 50 yards. (remington goldbullets 550 value-pack)
I got tired of dealing with BS like you are experiencing, and decided to find out what the most accurate, out-of-the-box .22 was. The answer across the board was CZ 452.
It is sad that American firearms manufacturers do not value accuracy anymore. Actually they seem to throw fit, form, and function out the window entirely leaving only a rifle that looks good from a distance.
I had a ruger 10-22 that would shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, brand new! (Ruger's blatant disregard for quality and accuracy is becoming legendary)
I bought a marlin bolt action .22 Mag that would only give me 2" groups at 50 yards.
I hated to give my money to the Check republic but American rifles cannot be depended on for accuracy.
Every now and then you might get an exceptional piece, but usually, you have to be ready to rebarrel to get good performance, as well as taking a few ounces worth of sharp edges off with a file, only then can you expect to get a decent rifle.
The one exception to this bleak situation could be Savage. They have always handled like junk and looked like junk, and had junky trigger pulls, but they have always been pretty accurate. And lately I have been very surprised by the improvements they have made to the look and feel of their latest rifles. If I were to buy a new American rifle at this point, it would almost surely be a savage.
I hope Remington will do right by you.

I'll agree CZ is the best bang for the buck but if you want a more accurate rifle and one that is built in the USA buy a Cooper. I've owned Kimbers, Anshultz, CZ, Remington, Marlin 39a, Savage, etc. None would shoot as good as an out of the box Cooper. If I can not shoot a 1/4 inch group at 50 yards with any of our four Coopers I know it is me, not the rifle.

[Mk42gunner]

Have you tried a different scope yet?

I haven't shot a Model 504; but the Model 581 that I gave my nephew would shoot 1/2" groups with Eley Tenex, and roughly 1 inch groups with regular .22 Long Rifles.

My CZ452 shoots about like goodsteels' rifle.

Robert

[peerlesscowboy]

................ I would also clean the barrel down to bare metal and then lap with JB's bore paste and see if that helps.
Is that the same stuff as "J-B Bore Bright"?
I gave the rifle a good bore cleaning this evening with Hoppes #9 and noted a few specks of lead came out with the first couple of dry patches. The bore looks OK to my untrained eye but not real shiny, chamber looks OK to me also. I'm thinking a bore lapping sure couldn't hurt anything, might try some of that J-B Bore Bright before I give up on it.

[peerlesscowboy]

Have you tried a different scope yet?

I haven't shot a Model 504; but the Model 581 that I gave my nephew would shoot 1/2" groups with Eley Tenex, and roughly 1 inch groups with regular .22 Long Rifles.

My CZ452 shoots about like goodsteels' rifle.

Robert
Yes, I've tried 3 different scopes. Besides the old Weaver V7......., an old Weaver V 4.5 & a brand new Leupold VX-II 3-9x33mm Rimfire EFR. Also besides the Weaver "tip-off" mounts I tried Burris "Z" rings. None of which made any difference so I've ruled out a "sight" problem.

[kmag]

Think I would contact the manufacturer and if I didn't get an offer to return it, think I would trade it for some other brand. If you decide to trade, take a look at the Savage Mark ll FV it is made in a long barrel and a 16 1/2 length. I just bought a 16 1/2 and am satisfied with it. Have tried it with 7 brands of ammo and so far it shoots the Remington Golden Bullet in the 525 bulk box best. 1/2 to 3/4 at 50 yds. I will not use expensive match ammo, I just refuse to pay 15 or 16 bucks for a box of 50 twenty-twos. I even shoot the more economical stuff in my Anschutz sporter and even after 30 years of use it shoots a tad better than the Savage. Also I'm using cheap scopes, a 2X7 on the Anschutz and a 3X9 on the Savage. These are BSA Sweet 22's

[870TC]

My CZ 452 shoots 1/2 groups (50 yards) with most of the "better" ammo. With Eley Match ($16 a box) it will shoot essentially one hole at 50 yards

I get the same results with my CZ-452 Trainer, right out of the box with a Bushnell 3x9 rimfire scope.

[roysha]

Try some Aguila SE hollow points. It is reasonably priced and quite effective out to 50-60 yards on small game with proper bullet placement.

Anyone that suggests one needs to purchase $10-15.00 a box of 50 ammo to get their rifle to shoot well really needs a reality check. Of course if the rifle is in the Olympic class and the shooter has those equal capabilities, that is a different story.

I have tried the red box Eley Tenex, the Federal top target ammo and some of the high dollar RWS target ammo, in many different rifles over the years and from my observation it only marginally improves the accuracy and that only in select rifles, certainly not 4-5 times the cost worth of improvement. In fact in one instance, a M-52D WIN with a 12x Unertl 2" Ultra Target, the Ely Brown box shot better then the Tenex.

[Multigunner]

Trigger pull and follow through are more important with a .22 RF that with higher velocity cartridges. The barrel time of the .22 RF is several times that of most center fire rifles.
A rifle may have the mechanical potential for sub MOA grouping but a lousy trigger or poorly fitting stock can make it difficult to shoot to its best performance. Proper length of pull for the individual is very important.

Probably the most accurate .22 rifle I've used was a beat up old J C Higgins autoloader that belonged to my older brother. I had no problem putting bullets through the neck opening of a 6 oz coke bottles lying on their side with iron sights at 50 yards.
It digested any and all .22 cartridges equally well, and cycled flawlessly with shorts, longs, or long rifle ammo of every available make.

I've done a good deal of BP shooting and some archery, so I developed good follow through early on. This also helps when shooting air rifles, especially spring piston guns.

PS
I wouldn't give a nickel for a recent model Savage .22 autoloader, but the Savage bolt actions are consistently great shooters for the price. The basic .22 Bolt action is based on the Savage nshutz target rifle. The target rifle had dual lugs while the sporter has only one (the bolt handle root). Their .22 Magnum uses the two lug bolt.

[calkar]

Sounds like a lemon. I just got a CZ lemon (the silhouette model), 6" vertical strings with wolf at 100m and a bad trigger. Sent it back trigger is the same and their gunsmith shot a 1.700 or so with Black Eley at 50m and customer service honcho Matt Hunter said thats within their specs. Wow! Trigger would pull all the way to the back of the trigger guard without firing. Then engage and disengage safety. When safety was disengaged rifle would fire.

[PB234]

Calker,

I have two CZ rimfires (452 American and 452 full stock) and they are terrific. If you remain unhappy with the piece and willing to send it to a smith in Illinois I have one who is excellent with CZ rifles. Private message me for more info.

PB234

[gmsharps]

I know you have probably recehcked but take another look at the scope mounts.

gmsharps

[405]

Bulk vs good vs top of the line ammo won't matter much with what appears to be a gun problem. Something is not right with the gun or the scope. Most decent 22s, sporter or whatever, should shoot somewhere around 1/2-1" at 50 yds with decent ammo. I've found for casual 22 sporter use the CCI Blazer is as good as any for the price. The really good and expensive ammo usually can only justify itself with the truly good target/match type rifles.

[NickSS]

I own several sporters none of which are remingtons. Two are CZ 452s, one a Ruger 7722 and one Browning T bolt. All these rifles will print 1/2 inch groups with their favorite ammo at 50 yards and sometimes smaller groups. The CZs are the least critical as they seam to like almost anything I put in them. My little 452 scout is my favorite and it will shoot into 2.5 inches all day long at 200 yards with Winchester bulk 555 ammo I get from Walmart My CZ Lux is a bit more critical as it likes a smaller variety of ammo.

[303Guy]

I have a Remington 512 Sport Master. I won sillywet club competitions with this rifle but when I fitted a silencer with misaligned baffles it shot all over the place. Turned out the muzzle was funnel shaped. I chopped off the silencer threads and it's groups tightened up considerably. It's real accurate now. Something to check. Something else is the bore diameter. I have a barrel that is somewhat larger than it should be. No idea how it would shoot. Then again I smoothed out my Dads rusted bore Orberndorf Mauser using abrasive kitchen cleaner. It's still rough but does not pick up lead and shoots pretty good. The abrasive only took off the sharp edges of the rust pits.

[Herb in Pa]

Remington 504's in 22lr with sporter barrels were hit or miss in the accuracy department which is why they were discontinued and reborn as the 547. The target models with the heavier barrel and laminated stocks in 22lr did not suffer the same accuracy issues. I own a 504T which shot acceptably with the original heavy barrel, but is markedly improved with the Lilja it now wears. I'm not sure if Remington produced the sporter barrels in house, but the new incarnation of the sporters use Shilen barrels.

It's a very robust action design with a decent adjustable trigger........just too bad that the bean counters at Remington went on the cheap with the original sporter barrels.

[Tallyman]

Many years ago I purchased a Savage-Anschutz Model 141 .22 sporter at a gun show. The seller was not happy with the accuracy of the rifle and sold it to me at a reasonable price. I had many brands of .22LR ammo on hand and brought about 7 different brands with me to the rifle range. I also brought multiple bullseye targets with me. I believe there were 10 bullseyes on each target and I set the targets on the 50 yard range.

Using a bench and sandbags I started shooting 5 shot groups at each bullseye with a different brand of ammo. I also put a copy of the same target on the bench in front of me and recorded what ammo I shot at each bullseye.

After a few groups I started to learn something interesting. In almost all cases, the first shot was a flyer. When I changed ammo the first shot was again a flyer. I decided to put up a clean target and start over. This time I took 6 rounds out of each box and fired the first round into the back stop, then shot a 5 shot group. For the next group with a different brand of ammo, I again fired the first shot into the back stop and then fired another 5 shot group.

I repeated this until I had fired a 5 shot group with each brand of ammo. The target revealed some interesting facts. Each group was different. One group might be high and to the left, the next group might be to the right of the bullseye at 3 o'clock., the next group would not be a group at all and the next one would be clustered into a 1/2 inch group.

I repeated this exercise several times until I knew what ammo my rifle liked and what it didn't. Ironically, some of the most expensive Winchester and CCI ammo performed the worst and the cheaper Federal bulk pak and CCI Blazers did the best. In fact, the Blazers shot consistently the best groups and that is my preferred ammo to use in that rifle even today.

So before you condemn your .22 rifle as being inaccurate, try firing groups with different brands of ammo. It took me a long time to find the right dog food that my dog actually enjoys at every meal and a little experimenting with .22 ammo to find the best ammo for my Savage-Anschutz Model 141.

[Dave Bulla]

Sounds like you've already tried most of the obvious stuff like multiple types of ammo, different scopes, different mounts, glass bedding, floating the barrel, pressure point at the fore end, recrowned the muzzle etc.

About the only thing I'd say is left would be to clean REALLY good, go through a lead removal process then lap the bore with JB bore paste. I'm thinking there is a chance that you had some kind of burr in the bore that might have caused leading to occur. Leading is not normally a problem with a rimfire 22 but if there was a rough spot of some sort or maybe a tight spot where a dovetail was cut or where the rollstamp was put on the barrel, it might be enough to cause your problems. Once it starts just a little bit, it only gets worse unless you can get it back down to clean metal. When running a super tight patch through the bore, does it kinda hang up anywhere?

Since you recrowned the barrel already, you probably can't send it back.

By chance, did you recrown BECAUSE you were getting bad accuracy or BEFORE you were getting poor groups? Have you ever recrowned a barrel before and was it done correctly?

Even a cheap, beat up 22 should shoot better than 2" at 50 yards. A quality sporter should shoot under 1/2" and a real good one will shoot a rough hole off sandbags with a good scope and trigger.

That's all I can think of for now.

[Herb in Pa]

Here's one of the many threads on RFC dealing with the 504..........


http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305771&highlight=remington+504

[Multigunner]

A possibility has occured to me. I've seen a few .22 bores that had crossways striations on the top of the lands for the full length of the bore.

I looked into possible causes and found that some button rifled, and perhaps some hammer forged barrels, if the bore is not properly finish reamed to a slick surface before rifling it will have these striations left from the boring operation.
I suppose this could happen with cut rifled bores as well, but if cut rifled the striations would only remain on the top surface of the lands, while button rifled or hammer fored bores would have the striations in the bottom of the grooves as well.
The article I found this in had images of sectioned barrels demonstrating this defect.
The author mentioned having a button rifled barrel that became metal fouled in only a few shots fired. A barrel from the same blank chambered at the opposite end did not foul at all.
The process of passing the button through the bore under great pressure had pushed the top edges of the striation in only one direction. This left the surface of the bore as a microscopicly toothed file . When chambered from the end opposite to the direction the button had been passed the edges had been turned over in the direction of bullet travel so no grinding away at the jacket took place.

I think the only way to correct such a problem would be by lead lapping, though fire lapping might do the trick.

I've heard of some rifle bores being lapped both before and after rifling was cut, probably to avoid these sorts of striations on the lands.

[peerlesscowboy]

Sounds like you've already tried most of the obvious stuff like multiple types of ammo, different scopes, different mounts, glass bedding, floating the barrel, pressure point at the fore end, recrowned the muzzle etc.

About the only thing I'd say is left would be to clean REALLY good, go through a lead removal process then lap the bore with JB bore paste. ..............
Happy to see the thread had a revival here :D
Update;
At the suggestion of lapping with J-B Bore paste upthread I tried it and I'd definitely say accuracy is much improved, enuf so that I'm convinced that is/was the main problem.

[peerlesscowboy]

...................................
By chance, did you recrown BECAUSE you were getting bad accuracy or BEFORE you were getting poor groups? Have you ever recrowned a barrel before and was it done correctly?
I took the rifle to a professional gunsmith to have the action glass bedded and the barrel floated because of the poor accuracy out of the box, he (the gunsmith) suggested the crown didn't look right so I told him to go ahead and recrown it then also. ........so I assume it was done correctly? Looks good to me.

[jh45gun]

CZ 452 ultra lux .625 ten shot groups at 50 yards. (remington goldbullets 550 value-pack)
I got tired of dealing with BS like you are experiencing, and decided to find out what the most accurate, out-of-the-box .22 was. The answer across the board was CZ 452.
It is sad that American firearms manufacturers do not value accuracy anymore. Actually they seem to throw fit, form, and function out the window entirely leaving only a rifle that looks good from a distance.
I had a ruger 10-22 that would shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, brand new! (Ruger's blatant disregard for quality and accuracy is becoming legendary)
I bought a marlin bolt action .22 Mag that would only give me 2" groups at 50 yards.
I hated to give my money to the Check republic but American rifles cannot be depended on for accuracy.
Every now and then you might get an exceptional piece, but usually, you have to be ready to rebarrel to get good performance, as well as taking a few ounces worth of sharp edges off with a file, only then can you expect to get a decent rifle.
The one exception to this bleak situation could be Savage. They have always handled like junk and looked like junk, and had junky trigger pulls, but they have always been pretty accurate. And lately I have been very surprised by the improvements they have made to the look and feel of their latest rifles. If I were to buy a new American rifle at this point, it would almost surely be a savage.
I hope Remington will do right by you.

Did you shoot different brands of ammo with that 22 mag? Marlin Bolt actions normally shoot very well Your comment about American rifles is BS I use a Marlin 80 for Silhouette shooting. I have a Sears branded 80 also that shoots as good. My Henry 22 mag with the ammo it likes will shoot ragged one hole groups at 50 yards if I do my part. Lots of American brand 22 rifles are accurate.

[303Guy]

Lots of American brand 22 rifles are accurate.Makes sense to me. My cheapo Remington Sportmaster is as accurate as can be, as old as it is but it did have a worn muzzle which once cut off, became accurate at longer distances. I have another similar Remington I haven't tried yet.

[mainiac]

CZ 452 ultra lux .625 ten shot groups at 50 yards. (remington goldbullets 550 value-pack)
I got tired of dealing with BS like you are experiencing, and decided to find out what the most accurate, out-of-the-box .22 was. The answer across the board was CZ 452.
It is sad that American firearms manufacturers do not value accuracy anymore. Actually they seem to throw fit, form, and function out the window entirely leaving only a rifle that looks good from a distance.
I had a ruger 10-22 that would shoot 4" groups at 50 yards, brand new! (Ruger's blatant disregard for quality and accuracy is becoming legendary)
I bought a marlin bolt action .22 Mag that would only give me 2" groups at 50 yards.
I hated to give my money to the Check republic but American rifles cannot be depended on for accuracy.
Every now and then you might get an exceptional piece, but usually, you have to be ready to rebarrel to get good performance, as well as taking a few ounces worth of sharp edges off with a file, only then can you expect to get a decent rifle.
The one exception to this bleak situation could be Savage. They have always handled like junk and looked like junk, and had junky trigger pulls, but they have always been pretty accurate. And lately I have been very surprised by the improvements they have made to the look and feel of their latest rifles. If I were to buy a new American rifle at this point, it would almost surely be a savage.
I hope Remington will do right by you.

Ive got a 77/22 ruger that will shoot .5 or under @50 yards,with only trigger work done to it.

I have 2 different marlin 39 leverguns,that will do under an inch@ 50,with the barrell mounted open sites.

Thats pretty good shooting,from where im from,,,dont see no need for a foreign made gun....

[leadman]

I have found that the CCI 36gr HP ammo shoot well in all of my 22s. Some it is the most accurate, some it is #2 or #3 in the various guns.
It is outstanding in my left hand 581.
I had never had any leading in previous years but about 6 months ago I was shooting some bulk stuff, think it was Federal, and it leaded the bore of my 581 and accuracy deteriorated.

[stryker60]

You might try this guy's method:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335936


James

[Forrest r]

Herb in PA nailed it when he said that the accuracy is hit & miss on the Remington 504’s. I’m a huge Remington rimfire fan & they really dropped the ball on with these rifles. They put 1 in 14 twist bbl’s on them. The 1 in 14 twist bbl’s are normally on 22 mags, Remington 22-250’s & some of the high end (Anschutz) biathlon 22lr rifles.

Right out of the Remington brochure for the 504, note the rate of twist listed for the 504 bbl.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/504FactoryBrochurePg41.jpg

[dano440]

try finding a bullet that is around 1080 to 1150 fps non-hollow point around 40 grains and see what happens

suggestion: Eley Sport $3.49 per box of 50 then weight them and find the most come weight. then burn the rest in a handgun.

[peerlesscowboy]

Hi guys again,
Update;
I gave up on the original barrel after lapping with bore-brite a couple of times with no beneficial effect and installed a factory contour Lilja barrel. Had it out to the range yesterday and it'll now shoot sub 1/2" @ 50 yds with Federal HV Match ammo [smilie=w:

John C. Saubak

[Forrest r]

Glad to here you got your sporter straightened out. What a shame it took a new bbl to get it right. Like I said earlier,Remington really dropped the ball with the 504.

I'm a huge Remington fan & perfer the 540 series rifles/actions. Remingtons own words are that the 540 series rifles have the fastest lock time of any rifle we've ever produced. My 541-s rifles, these were made to compete against the Anschutz 54 sporters.

2 Remington 541-s rifleshttp://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/both541s.jpg

The rifle that the Remington 541-s was designed to beat, an Anschutz 54 match sporter.http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/54sporter.jpg

Another gem that Remington made (6,375) that isn't well known, the 540x. This rifle will easily give the Anschutz 64 match rifles all they can handle & then some.http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/scoped540.jpg

Any gun maker can come up with a lemon or a bad rifle, it happens. CZ makes one heck of a solid sporter that's hard to beat. A CZ lux that's setup for silhouettes.http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/luxlyman.jpg
I'm no br shooter & the design of the CZ lux doesn't ride the bags well (hog back butt & swabiel forend), but it will put some lead on paper. Some 4 shot grooups shot @50yds.http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/czlux13mm.jpg