Cleaning trouble

[idahoron]

SO I get this private message from a guy a while back. I am not adding his name to protect the innocent. Anyway he asked me how I get my guns to fire every time. So I sent him a note. I am going to copy and paste this in case anyone want to see how I do my cleaning. He used this method and his guns went to shooting on the first cap. I am sure this would work on inlines as well but I use this on my TC Renegades and Hawken. Ron
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What I am thinking about your procedure is you get the bottom of the barrel a little too moist. Then you fire the caps into the moist bottom and things get sticky and nasty. You pour the powder in and maybe the first few tiny grains are into the moist sticky cap powder mixture. That is not a good mix.

Ok let me go on farther. Here is my procedure to load.
I get to the range with a gun that has oil in the barrel.
I use a jag and push a dry patch down and pull it out.
I turn it over and push it down again and leave it there.
I use #11 mag caps. Put one on and fire it into the patch. I do this 2 or 3 times.
I pull the patch out and make sure it is burnt good.
If you pop a cap and it doesn’t look like this pop another one until the oil is gone. By using the patch to catch the fire and the oil as it blows down the barrel it is ready to fire. At the peak of hotness.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Patch1.jpg


Now It is ready to load. I pour the powder down and lean the rifle over with the lock down. I tap the rifle on the butt of the stock to get the grains of powder to settle into the nipple area. Then I finish loading.

OK between shots I clean the rifle.
I squirt some windex on a patch but not too much. I swab it, and repeat if I have to.
Then I put a dry patch on and push it down and pull it out. Turn it over and push it down again.
NOW!!! I Fire 2 or 3 caps again with the patch on the jag. Check to be sure the patch is burnt. If so load again if not fire a couple more caps.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Patch2.jpg

This patch above was not burning well enough so I popped a couple more caps to get the gunk and windex out.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Patch4.jpg



I have seen sticky black thick stuff stuck on the bottom of the patch that
would have fouled up the load if the patch had not caught it. Here is a couple of pictures that show the gunk that would have blown back down the barrel. This wet sticky gunk is what causes most guys to have hang fires and even not fire at all.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Patch5.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Patch6.jpg


I think firing caps into the patch makes a huge difference. Ron

[Hellgate]

Great idea. Thanks for passing this bit of wisdom along.

[Mk42gunner]

So correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds to me like you are firing 3-4 caps for every time you fire your rifle?

I have always cleaned my caplock rifles with hot water and dish soap, usually Dawn. After the water evaporates a light coat of oil protects the bore until nest time.

I will fire a cap with the muzzle next to a leaf or dry dust to ensure the flash channel is clear before loading the first shot, but after that I just load and shoot.

Robert

[idahoron]

Your right. I fire a couple two or three caps before I load. This insures I get a perfect fire every time. I never come home telling the story about the one that got away because my gun had a hang fire or the load didn't go off at all.

Your thinking is flawed. When you fire the cap with the muzzle near a lief you blow the oil down the barrel not OUT of the barrel. The first powder that goes down sticks to that oil and the oil contaminates it then it is pushed down to contaminate more powder. Most of the time when guys have hang fires it is the first load after it is cleaned. Look at those patches. The wet gunk that stuck to them would be stuck in your barrel. That wet gunk could and does contaminate the powder. If you don't like my method you don't have to use it. We all do things different. Ron

[DIRT Farmer]

I agree Ron, oil is the main problem and too wet wiping patches. When shooting in compitation with a shot gun, I fire two to five caps till it sounds right, then load a blank and quickly blow out the gun. Of course on the range there is a CO 2 discharger on hand and if it is nessary the load can be blown out. After using a discharger, the flash channel cam be damp from condensation and you have to start over.
MK42, if a damp patch goes to the bottom, clear it out. I solve the problems by shooting flint in the field, but that rules out Ron's system of shooting.

[Newtire]

Thanks for the post Ron. That's the one thing I've been having troubles with lately and now I know. Makes sense to me._________________________________

[waksupi]

Ron has it pretty well corraled. Back when I was still hunting with the cap locks, I would use paper towel to swab the barrel completely dry. I would remove the nipple, one of the few times I remove one on a cap lock, and use a a pipe cleaner to swab any oil from the flash channel, and be sure the nipple was completely free of oil. I would then replace the nipple, and use a patch as Ron says, to be absolutely sure you had all the oil out of the bore when firing a few caps. I would then put in the powder charge, and tap the side of the rifle a few times, to be sure the powder was settled in the breech, out to the flash channel under the nipple. The patched ball would then be seated, and after that, I run a lightly oiled patch down the bore. If you clean and load a caplock like this, it will generally go off when you want it to, even if not as reliable as a good flintlock.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

That's not the only way to have absolutely reliable ignition. I clean with water mostly with a very few drops of dish detergent. Plug the nipple /touchhole with a toothpick. Squirt lots of liquid down the barrel upright . Put your thumb over the muzzle and invert and slosh a time or two. With a tight jag and patch started in the barrel, pull the pick and PUMP in short strokes . Everything in there is mostly soluble and squirts out. Once or three times gets you a clean patch finally. Dry with several patches.

Listen for the air being forced through the flash channel. When dry , I plug again and this time the wd-40 goes in.....lots. Pull the toothpick and PUMP using a patch ot two to a degree of oiliness you can tolerate to leave. Clean the exterior. Wad up a clean patch to be under the flint in the pan or the hammer on the nipple.

Later, before you go to hunt or the range, dry out the bore, pan, nipple with a clean patch. Listen for air hissing. I leave a dry patch on the rod jag sitting in the barrel overnight typically.

As long as the bore is clean and dry, air hisses, and nothing is visibly oily, the fact it sat in oil does not matter. Now, I always clean with a range rod, remember jags get smaller from wear and replace them as you need that tight fit, and don't skimp on patches. I may lick a patch in the squirrel woods after a couple of shots to WIPE, but the guns get cleaned at the range, at the camp, or rarely at home.

BvT

[Marvin S]

I clean mine with Alcohol before loading for a hunt.

[mooman76]

I've never had a big problem with ignition. I just pop a couple caps before loading and then load. On a very rare occasion it doesn't fire first shot, but then I just pop another cap and it's fine after that. Don't over oil the barrel after cleaning.

[Omnivore]

What is this "oil" thingy you speak of? Never heard of it. I never use "oil" in my bore.

Swab with a tight-fitting jag and patch with plain hot water (and what is this so-called "soap" stuff?) with one end of the barrel in the water so the hot water is drawn up into the bore and forced out briskly through the flash channel and nipple hole, remove barrel from water, drain it, swab, being sure to use the sub bore-sized jag required to get down into the powder chamber in the breech if applicable, and swab some more with Bore Butter as it dries from the heat. One cap popped before loading and it fires 100%. Hundreds of shots this way using black powder can go off without so much as a delay. Once I forgot to pop the cap and it made no difference.

At the range if I have to clean the bore, I'll swab with a moist, not wet, spit patch, then a Bore Butter patch, pop one, load and fire. Ignition is virutally 100%. This is a Lyman 50 cal caplock with hook breech, having a powder chamber of about 35 cal. Other designs might be more finicky. I don't know, but you certainly don't need "oil" (liquid at room temp - otherwise it's "grease", I figure. Bore Butter usually qualifies as "grease" but home-made mixtures work as well) or soap in a ML bore.

[idahoron]

No oil? That is asking for trouble. Popping a cap after range cleaning not pushing a patch down is saving you what a cap and a patch? Look at the crud that the patch is catching. IF you guys want that in your breach and barrel fantastic. Ron

[samcolt87]

just use hot water and dish soap on my sporterized hawken. Don't even bother to remove the nipple anymore. Works fine.

[idahoron]

You will have to look for the thread about the guy that was removing the nipple and broke it off because it had never been out. I like my rifles more than that. I take them out clean them and I even replace them about every hundred shots or so.

A few of you guys didn't read the post very well. This thread is not about what is best to clean with. I see you guys are posting like the guy above.
"I just use hot water and soap. Works good for me"
That is what we all do. The post is about after that. You oil your gun and store it. Then you go back to the range later on. OR your at the range and your cleaning BETWEEN shots.
Now if some of you are breaking out the hot water and soap at the range good for you. If your not having trouble that is great.
When I have seen guys have trouble with hang fires and loads that won't go off most of the time you can point the finger at swabbing between shots, or not getting the oil out of the rifle before they loaded.
If you don't use oil Bless you. If you don't clean between shots again bless you. But if you clean between shots at some point your going to have a hang fire. The original post was about how to keep that from happening.

[troy_mclure]

i fire 3 caps before i load the first time. ill put a patch in the muzzle for each shot. the patch gets blown out showing a clear path of fire and a dry chamber area.

[smoked turkey]

Prior to this post I usually only fired one cap with the muzzle pointed to a leaf or a blade of grass. A clear nipple was basically all I was looking for along with drying out what ever oil may be lurking in the breech plug area. This time I ran a patch down the bore with it at the breech plug and when I examined it I was amazed at what appeared to be damp grey crud on the patch. By the third cap the patch was looking like those shown in the opening thread. I will use more than one cap in the future as this has shown me that in spite of all the dry patches I run down the bore, there is some oil lurking in there that needs to be fully removed. This thread has been helpful to me, even though I didn't get hang fires or failure to fire before. I just think this is good insurance when going to hunt with the rifle.