synthic vs wood stocks pratical vs beautiful

[Judan_454]

I really like wood stocks for the beauty but synthic stocks are more pratical but not as beautiful as there wood counterparts. Would the be any accuracy differences bettween wood vs synthic if all other factors were the same? I am leaning toward buying rifle with walnut stock because I like the looks of a wooded stock, because no two stocks look the same they have there own charater.

[Lloyd Smale]

i think wood would be more rigid compared to a cheap plastic stock but a good plastic stock would be just as rigid if not more.

[Dan Cash]

Like you , I prefer a good wood stock. Plastic or fiber stocks do absorb recoil in a hard kicking gun and I have shot a plastic stocked Winchester M70 and a light Remington mountain rifle and found them to be as accurate or more so than their wood stocked counter part. On the other hand, I have a wood stocked 1965 vintage M70 that has not shifted its point of impact in over 20 years despite a move from KY to ND . You pays yer money and takes yer choice.

[smoked turkey]

Good wood and blued steel is my preference also. However in reality I think the synthetic stock is less prone to affecting accuracy when weather conditions are taken into account. I am a bit of a clutz when it comes to doing things. I seem to always be able to put a small ding in a wood stock just getting it out of the safe. I can really do it up big on a hunt where I am walking up and down the hills and valleys, jumping over small streams, climbing into tree stands, well you get the picture. For a "working" gun I prefer stainless/synthetic for overall durability.

[JesterGrin_1]

Besides Synthetic there is also Laminate Stocks. Kind of the best of both worlds. It is wood but a Laminate so it is not effected by humidity as solid woods are and is stronger. Such as from BOYD'S Stocks.

I will say I also really like nice solid woods. But when I built this rifle I also wanted to hunt in any weather and wished for each shot to go where they should. And yes plastic has its place but I thought this looked better and only weighed 3 OZ more than its plastic counterpart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin%20XL-7%20build%20to%2035%20Whelen/35Whelen4.jpg

This is the start of another rifle I am having done. Yes a bit WILD I know lol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMG_2861-1.jpg

[Judan_454]

Besides Synthetic there is also Laminate Stocks. Kind of the best of both worlds. It is wood but a Laminate so it is not effected by humidity as solid woods are and is stronger. Such as from BOYD'S Stocks.

I will say I also really like nice solid woods. But when I built this rifle I also wanted to hunt in any weather and wished for each shot to go where they should. And yes plastic has its place but I thought this looked better and only weighed 3 OZ more than its plastic counterpart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin%20XL-7%20build%20to%2035%20Whelen/35Whelen4.jpg

This is the start of another rifle I am having done. Yes a bit WILD I know lol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMG_2861-1.jpg Those a beautiful stocks, I have to say really do like them.

[felix]

Synthetics are best without doubt, but the laminates are the best of both worlds when the glue used is a polymer rather than natural. ... felix

[Reload3006]

I understand your appreciation for a beautiful walnut or Maple stock nothing is more beautiful. I suppose it all depends on what you want your rifle for. IMO if your going to be shooting inside 200yds a wood stock will not be so affected by the weather that you would miss a deer size animal. If on the other hand you plan on doing some extreme long range hunting such as Varmint or Dall Sheep or Antelope then a synthetic or Laminate stock would be a better choice.

[JesterGrin_1]

Go to BOYD'S Web site. they have many styles and colors that will not break the bank. The two above are $99.00. BUT I would recommend to have pillars installed as well as bedded. But you do not need to right away. They are designed for a pretty much drop in fit with a floated barrel.And if shooting a large caliber or any caliber for that matter that you feel will kick I would also replace the recoil pad with a good grind to fit model.

Not an employee I just like there stocks lol.

[Judan_454]

I understand your appreciation for a beautiful walnut or Maple stock nothing is more beautiful. I suppose it all depends on what you want your rifle for. IMO if your going to be shooting inside 200yds a wood stock will not be so affected by the weather that you would miss a deer size animal. If on the other hand you plan on doing some extreme long range hunting such as Varmint or Dall Sheep or Antelope then a synthetic or Laminate stock would be a better choice.

I was wondering how Carlos Hathcock made some of his extemely long shots in Vietnam 400 to 800 yds with model 70 winchester and model 700 remington with a wood stock .I think in Vietnam it was extremely humid. I myself shot in some highpower rifle matchs with M1 Grands out to 600 yds and was always amazed by how accurate these WW2 rifles shot with woods stocks and peep sights.

[Baja_Traveler]

Of course you can have the best of both worlds and get a strong super light weight composite stock and have it Hydro Dipped (http://www.hydrodipping.com/Wood%20Grains/index.html#) in a nice wood pattern...

[felix]

Yes, if you are the type who likes function over art. Leave the wooden stocked gun in the trunk, and place the car out into full weather 24/7. Never bring a gun into the house unless the house air is identical to outside air. ... felix

[nanuk]

anyone remember the name of the company that made "Plastic" stocks with a wood grain overlay?

I read where you couldn't tell the difference until you took the rifle out of the stock

"Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder" Some folks like the plastic Stainless etc....

others like a straight plain wood stock with NO checkering.

Personally, I find checkering and engraving FUGLY

[Reload3006]

I was wondering how Carlos Hathcock made some of his extemely long shots in Vietnam 400 to 800 yds with model 70 winchester and model 700 remington with a wood stock .I think in Vietnam it was extremely humid. I myself shot in some highpower rifle matchs with M1 Grands out to 600 yds and was always amazed by how accurate these WW2 rifles shot with woods stocks and peep sights.

Carlos Hathcock wasn't shooting a factory production rifle either. it wasn't just a wood stock. + its not the humidity that is the enemy its the "change" in humidity and barometric pressure that effects Wood stocks. it also effects laminate and plastic stocks too just not to the same degree.

[Judan_454]

Carlos Hathcock wasn't shooting a factory production rifle either. it wasn't just a wood stock. + its not the humidity that is the enemy its the "change" in humidity and barometric pressure that effects Wood stocks. it also effects laminate and plastic stocks too just not to the same degree. Yes I do agree that Carlos Hathcock wasnt shooting factory rifles I think he had a armmor to take care for his rifle and no one else touched it. I think he made longest shot was with a 50 BMG heavy machinegun with a scope mounted on it. I think it was well over 2000 yds and I dont think that was a match tuned rifle. To me that just shows me what kind of the skill this man had. As the old saying goes its not gun, its the skill of the operator.
For most of us whether its wood,laminate,or plastic its not going to matter at some ranges we shoot or hunt at. All the new rifles and shotguns you see a are plastic stocks with black or camo patterns for me thats not beautiful but I also like log home too. lol. But do stand corrected on the laminate stocks I really like the way they look.
This is a picture Carlos Hathcock's rifle.

[BD]

Nothing like a nice walnut stock, epoxy pillar bedded with a free floating barrel. Fly it from 98% humidity in the South Carolina Low Country to 50% humidity at 9,000 feet in the Colorado Rockies with no change in zero, and it still looks like a classic.
BD

[Rick Hodges]

A proper wood stock can be every bit as accurate as a composite stock.....just not mass produced by semi skilled workers for a price.

I own both, hunt with both in all types of weather, and find no difference in accuracy or consistancy. The plastic stocks are much noisier and colder to the touch but they also seem more durable and resistant to careless handling.

I love the looks and feel of fine walnut.

Rick

[Judan_454]

A proper wood stock can be every bit as accurate as a composite stock.....just not mass produced by semi skilled workers for a price.

I own both, hunt with both in all types of weather, and find no difference in accuracy or consistancy. The plastic stocks are much noisier and colder to the touch but they also seem more durable and resistant to careless handling.

I love the looks and feel of fine walnut.

Rick Well said, Im glad their are still a few people that like the beauty of fine wood.

[Uncle R.]

I like a nice wood stock too - but a quality synthetic stock is more functional in every way save one. A quality synthetic stock is lighter, stronger, more stable which probably means more accurate, and depending on design is quite likely to absorb recoil better.
<
What is the one way in which wood is better?
<
Wood doesn't feel as cold on my cheek when I'm aiming the rifle in a November hunt.
<
Uncle R.

[waksupi]

Laminated stocks don't have to be ugly. This is the last personal rifle I built for myself when I worked at Serengeti Rifles. It is also the only Mauser in existence with the Serengeti logo on it. And yes, it IS a laminated stock.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=39020

[405]

As far as the OP, I think utility vs beauty is 100% in the eye of the beholder and the matter is generally 100% subjective.

IMO, a rifle like the SS Win 70 CRF (top) in a good quality synthetic stock is as utilitarian, brute tough and reliable as it gets. While a rifle like the flinter (bottom) in a figured maple stock is as attractive as it gets. Also, I never have cared for laminates. They work well for utility but are not attractive to my eye, even the super high dollar ones show the lamination seams on top and/or bottom midlines.

[KCSO]

Where do you hunt, how do you hunt? A wood stock with GOOD properly dried walnut PROPERLY finished wit a GOOD waterproof finish (not linseed oil) will stand up to MOST conditions. It will not stand up to days in the rain if you came to say Alaska from Wyoming. In 1986 a buddy of mine took the walnut stock off his Ruger 25-06 because in 3 days of rain in Colorado his poi changed enough that he missed a nice bull elk at 200 yards. When he checked the rifle the gun was off by over 6" at 100 yards. He put on a then new Bell and Carlson stock and the poi hasn't changed since. My father in law took his M70 Winchester apart in 1948 and soaked the stock in varnish and turpentine and then dried it off. He then put beeswax under the buttplate and in the interior inletting. He then used Linspeed on the outside and it never changed impact from then on, BUT he never hunted for days in driving rain either. Laminated stocks are much better than solid wood but still need a good finish inside and out. I am not a plastic fan but can see where it might have it's uses but I would rather have wood and am willing to accept it's drawbacks in certain situations. My m/l hunting guns are all finished inside and out and with the heavy octogon barrels I have never had a problem with poi changing. My Krag hunting gun hasn't changed on me yet but it was waterproofed and sealed with beeswax like Dad's gun.

[TNsailorman]

The question asked earlier was who made the really nice woodgrained synthetic stocks. I had one on a Swedish 96 sporter was done right. Barrel cut to 25", bolt handle cut and a Model 70 style handle put on it, bolt polished and a really fine pattern swirl added, deep blue with a high polish. The woodgrain patttern was a very high grade usually found on the very highest grade of turkish walnut. It was made by Bell and Carlson in the early 90's as I recall. It was beautiful. I just recently sold it as I am downsizing what I have to a bare minimum using rifles.

[Brithunter]

The problem today is that unless your prepared to buy the stock wood then wait for at least 5 years with it hanging somewhere in side a shed or outhouse to dry properly the wood will likely walk with moisture changes. Kiln dried wood is pretty crappy in this respect and it's alos weaker that proper air dried wood. It's best to get the blank green and dry it yourself but who is going to wait about 7-10 years to make their stock?

You don't hear of the wood stocks on best quality rifles like those made by Holland & Holland etc having stocks warping. That's because they use air dried wood and when they get a stock blank they store in in their drying rooms for at least 5 years before offering to customers.

I have antique rifles that the stock bedding is just as it was made back in 1897 or 1893 we wouldn't be able to say that of today's modern mass produced wood stocked rifles. The DWM I have for about 1897 spent it's early years in South Africa before spending the next 100 in Scotland. The rifle was exposed to lots of damp up there judging by the rust I had to deal with yet the stock is fine apart from a slight split at the tang caused by the Mauser tube stock spacer rusting and swelling.... yep it had that much rust on it:-

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/319133/9877134.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/319133/9877161.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/319133/3107665.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/319133/3107647.jpg

That is the DWM Boer Plezier rifle in 7x57 Mauser of course.

I will not have a plastic stocked rifle I hate them. Horrid cold, slippery and cheap things....................... Yuck!

[Canuck Bob]

I prefer lever rifles with thier two piece stocks and the inherent problems often associated with them. Walnut has never failed me with extremely wet weather followed by bitter cold often in the same day. I'm talking solid hunting performance and not tack driving precision.

Even a year ago I would have said I would never consider anything but walnut and blue. I've found the laminate stainless models starting to appeal to me as a possibility. There is something interesting about a rifle capable of rock solid performance under any conditions. Of course I am no longer capable of meeting that standard myself and maybe never was! One thing though, the rifle might be capable of extreme hard use but the scopes aren't to the same degree.

However in the end it appears my meager collection of peep sighted lever actions and milsurp are going to outlive me by a long shot, shoot straighter, and with less scars. I wish I had aged as gracefuly as my decades old 444. It is hard to picture some of the new designs aging gracefully. The plastic and potmetal in my vehicles and power tools is good for maybe 10 years before it needs recycling or trashing.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am all about good looking wood, but the rifles I have that are wood stocked don't see rain except from inside the house.

I have several guns with laminated stocks and so far none of them has changed a POI from when sighted in.

That said my Mauser .22 made in 1929 was sighted in in 1978 and has never changed since.

I am not a big fan of Plastic stocks just because I don't like black guns.

We should qualify "Plastic Stocks" also, because we what passes as plastic nowadays is certainly not the cheap stuff we saw on BB guns, and Remington Nylon 66's. Most of them are pretty sophisticated material, and work extremely well. I think the term "composite" better describes these products.

A $400 McMillian stock is NOT a cheap plastic stock, and it will never alter the POI on the rifle that is in it. That being said, even the Cheap $80 ones will never change either.

I personally think they look like ship, but if you were making an assault rifle to be used in harsh conditions you certainly wouldn't use a nice piece of walnut on it would you?

Come to think of it, I have never seen an AR with a wood stock. I wonder if one even exists.

Point of all this is,, Wood has its place, and composite has it's place, and the Laminates kind of bridge the gap between the two.

My current Mauser to .45 ACP project is going to have laminated stock, but my Springfield 03A3 is getting a nice piece of walnut. Any rifle I build to be used in the rain forrest will have a "Plastic Stock" on it. Kind of all makes sense don't it?

Randy

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'm easy either way, but my fav hunting issneaking and crawling through the blackberries in Victoria after Sambar and it rains as often as not there. The plastic stocks need to be filled with expandable styrine to shut them up, the wood ones are pretty quiet.

I have a couple of Remington 700SPS (affectionately know in Australia as the S##T Plastic Stock, lol), one in 270W and the other a DG in 375H&H. I wasn't hot or cold over the stock, but they are quality, serviceable and accurate rifles that are made by our Allies (you guys) so I went with them. WHat I have found is that the plastic stock and the squishy squashy (contracted out to Limbsaver I believe) recoil pad work a treat! The 375 with factory 270Gn ammo (not much dearer than brass) gives a very stout recoil and the rifle jumps everywhere, but it is easy on your shoulder, really strange, but good.

[Dirty30]

Posts # 17 and 18 make me feel like there is still hope for this world. I have hunted in heavy rain and snow with wood stocked rifles and never had a problem. I have never taken 600 yd shots while hunting either though so I can't argue that point. I would speculate though that the average guy isn't going to have trouble hunting with wood. There aren't many of us who do extremely long range hunting. Then again, there aren't many of us who have any business doing so.

[Bullet Caster]

The only "plastic" stock rifle I own is a Remington Apache 77 with a nylon stock. I got it in OD green because I love OD green. One AK has a laminate stock that I think is very pretty--I call it my tiger eye stock. The other one has a walnut stock on it and it is pretty as well. But my most favorite wooden stock is curly maple. There's nothing better looking than curly maple especially on a muzzleloader. Just my thoughts. BC

[stubshaft]

Synthetics are utilitarian and stable but to me nothing says fine gun better than a beautifully grained wood stock.

[NickSS]

Most of my rifle have wood stocks and they do not really drift much at all from year to year. I dug out one of my older rifles from the back of the safe a week or two ago. I had not laid a hand on it for nearly 25 years and I dug out some ammo I loaded in 1982 for it and went to the range. I fired all 40 rounds I brought with me and that rifle printed its groups right were I had zeroed it the last time I fired it and the groups were the same size. The rifle is a Ruger M 77 I bought in 1972 in 7X57 Mauser. Average group size for five shot groups was .875 center to center at 100 yards from a bench rest. So wood stock work just fine. But then so does synthetic and laminated stocks. I will say this a wood stock is more liable to change POI over time than a synthetic but it does not occur very fast like during a hunt. My experience is that other issues are much more likely to occur like your sights being screwed up by the rifle being dropped.

[Lloyd Smale]

Lots of bench rest competions have been won with rem 40xbs wearing wood stocks. One thing ill add is that you hear alot on wood stocks warping and changing poa. Ive never seen that happen. Id bet its more a case of back 30 years ago before stockmakers used good finishes. Best they had back then was linseed oil. Anymore most all wood stocks from the major manufactures are sealed up pretty well.

[lead chucker]

I love the feel of a wood stock especially when its cold out feels wormer than my synthetic stocks. I also find my self taking better care of my guns with wood stocks. I like to keep them looking good.

[Shiloh]

I love the beauty and feel of wood.

Shiloh

[Casting Timmy]

I think both have their advantages, and disadvantges. I just bedded my Remington factory stock and am waiting for it to warm up to test it out. Half way threw I was thinking about just throwing the stock away and getting a wooden stock for my rifle.

I still am thinking about putting some metal stiffeners in the front half of the stock, but I want to see how it shoots bedded and the fore end cleared out to not hit the barrel.

Wood or plastic, don't be afraid to cross drill it out so the epoxy locks itself into the stock and the adhesion if any will just be a bonus for holding the bedding in the stock.

[405]

WHat I have found is that the plastic stock and the squishy squashy (contracted out to Limbsaver I believe) recoil pad work a treat! The 375 with factory 270Gn ammo (not much dearer than brass) gives a very stout recoil and the rifle jumps everywhere, but it is easy on your shoulder, really strange, but good.

Agreed, that is a strange sensation for certain! I've shot a 1980s vintage Win 70 375HH quite a bit in last couple of years. All factory gun. Fairly nice walnut stock with a squisshy Winchester factory pad... I think the kind they were using during those years of production. Mercy does that rifle jump around on recoil shooting from the bench and it does jolt the jaw with full power Jbullet loads! In contrast I have a much later Win 70 416 all factory of about 2006 vintage about the last of the Connecticut guns. Likewise it has a nice walnut stock but a much different Winchester factory recoil pad of what appears to be very plain dense rubber. It is not at all squisshy. It does not jump around on recoil and if you relax the shoulder muscles just a bit when shooting it doesn't pound nor jolt the jaw. But, no matter the stock or pad with either gun off the bench just be sure to have plenty of scope eye relief!! I've learned to always wear a ball cap when shooting that type gun. When the scope starts ticking the bill it's getting close to the brow. :) The first and last scope eyebrow I got was in 1968 shooting a regular 06 bolt gun off the bench- promptly swore off that habit.

[grumman581]

I recently bought a Marlin 1895GS and went hog hunting at a nearby heavily wooded area. The finish on the stock was perfect before the endeavor, but after a few days, it definitely shows scratches on it. Although I prefer the look of a good walnut stock, I will admit that the utilitarian black plastic stocks are a lot more forgiving of abuse.

Speaking of abuse... Look at what the high school JROTC drill teams use for their rifles these days... Many are using M1903 demilitarized clones made by Daisy which use a high impact plastic stock...

http://www.odcmp.org/503/daisy_drill.asp

I've watched the JROTC kids practicing for their exhibition drill competitions... When they are first starting out and learning the various spins and tosses, they drop the rifles quite a bit -- sometimes in the dirt, but often on concrete or asphalt... I would hazard to guess that they put more abuse on one of these rifles in a semester than most of us put on our rifles in our lifetime...

Apparently, this one was a wooden stock...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9q7b_2tkMo

Skip to around 2:20 to see the beginning of the "oops"... If you watch to the end, you'll see that the stock broke into two pieces and the sling is all that is holding it together...

[John 242]

Yes I do agree that Carlos Hathcock wasn't shooting factory rifles I think he had a armmor to take care for his rifle and no one else touched it.

The Winchester Model 70 Heavy Barrel target rifles used initially by the Marine Snipers in Vietnam came from two locations- as former hunting rifles from Camp Pendleton via the PX system on Okinawa and as former match rifles from the National Matches. They were free floated and glass bedded by USMC armorers. All were chambered in .30-06 and typically equipped with a 8x Unertl scope.

According to Maj (Ret) Jim Land, who created the Marine Corp sniping program from scratch, GySGT Hathcock's rifle would shoot 2 MOA and was full of rust pits in the barrel. He also mentioned the Unertl scopes as not being satisfactory due to breakage and that they would often fog.

Personally, I think that a properly glass bedded wood stock, with a free floated barrel would be sufficient for 99.999% of shooters and shooting situations. I like wood and carbon steel, but I don't pooh, pooh, on a good synthetic or stainless steel, either.

By the way, after retirement Maj(Ret) Jim Land became an NRA Secretary.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/usmc-sniper-rifles-2/

[John 242]

Brithunter-
Sir, that is a fine rifle.

[grumman581]

One of these days, I'm hoping to get around to building another AR-15 with a set of walnut furniture... Everyone has black plastic furniture on their AR, but you just don't see any with nice walnut furniture... It will be different...

Something like this:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/woody_4.jpg

Or this:
http://www.spambob.net/collinleon/ar-15-walnut-640.jpg
Not that I'm exactly a fan of a red colored upper and lower, but the wood does look nice...

[Judan_454]

The AR really looks different with wood but it looks great. I might even buy and AR rifle it they looked like that.

[grumman581]

The AR really looks different with wood but it looks great. I might even buy and AR rifle it they looked like that.

For that look, you're going to be building your own... They're not very difficult to build, depending upon how much work gets done by the kit provider. I went with the Del-Ton kit and it only took me about an hour to build it and the only experience that I had was just from minor disassembly of firearms for cleaning...