Neck reaming for the '06

[Finnmike]

I've done some searching but have not found consistent, detailed info on the necessity of inside neck reaming for CB loads in the 03A3.
I neck size only with the Lee collet neck sizer, and do not crimp. My boolits are sized to .311, and some will seat a little too easily even with sorted cases. Should I resort to inside neck reaming (and I suppose, outside neck turning) or is it too finicky for as-issued shooting at 100/200 yd ranges only? BTW I'm getting MOA or near MOA at these distances off the bench but occasional vertical stringing and flyers.

[garandsrus]

Finnmike,

If you ream or outside turn the neck, the boolit is going to fit even more loosely. If you want more neck tension, you will need to get a smaller collet (or whatever it's called) that goes in the neck sizing die. My other guess is that you aren't running the brass far enough into the die.

If you are using a gas checked bullet but the gas check is not sized, the gas check will be larger than the boolit so it will expand the case neck, causing the boolit to fit loosely or fall through.

I full length size for the 03A3 and have good results.

John

[fa38]

I have turned the necks of my 06 brass for cast bullet shooting. After turning the thick part is .012 and the thin part not touched by the neck turning tool is anywhere from .0105 to .012. The turning cuts anywhere from 1/3 of the neck to all of the neck.

I checked the necks with a ball mike and some of the cases had a portion of the neck as large as .016.

I neck size using a Lyman Precision Alignment die with neck sizer buttons in the die.
With unturned necks and using a .334 sizer button I was getting different bullet seating resistance. Some felt loose and others tight. With the turned necks and using a .330 button the seating pressure feels about the same. The fired cases measure .340 and the sized cases measure .330 so the neck brass is being worked quite a bit.

I have never used a Lee collet neck sizer and don’t know how they work but maybe you need a smaller mandrel or what ever it is to size the brass down more. Outside turning would give you a more uniform bullet case dimension.

Shot these two 10 shot groups today at 100 yards with my Remington 03a3, issue rear, Lyman 17 front.. The group on the right measure 1.81 and the group on the left measures 2.42.

Same load except the right group used LBT Blue Soft and the left group my homemade lube. 180 RCBS Flat Nose, CCI 200, 19.7 grs. 4759. As it is cold here in Wisconsin I load 5 into the magazine in the range house and then go to the bench outdoors and shoot them. Back into the range house for a bit of warming and load 5 more, then back to the bench.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_35374ee57321c1cda.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2960)
I must have done something on the bench to get the group on the right to sort of two group.

[Finnmike]

I understand the conflicting views. My Lee neck sizer works fine, maybe I will give the neck turning a go to increase uniformity. Part of what makes the whole sport interesting.

[Maven]

Finnmike, Isn't neck turning done to fit cartridges to tight, i.e., benchrest chambers? Unless your '03 has such a chamber, why do it? Btw, I've done it only to make the necks more concentric in my '06 (Mod. 70 Win.), but could see no improvement at all on the target as a result. As for inside neck reaming, I don't think I've ever needed to do that to any .30-06 brass and I've been reloading it since 1986. (Other calibers, yes.) Lee collet dies or, as previously suggested, bushing dies (Forster, Redding, Wilson) seem to be the better way.

[Char-Gar]

Necking reaming was popular in the Days of Yore with smaller high pressure, high velocity rounds. The brass would flow forward building up in the neck, increasing thickness and resulting in higher, often too high pressure. The fix was to ream the inside of the neck to remove the excess brass.

Outside neck turning has replaced inside reaming for the above purpose. Outside neck turning also has other uses.

1. It will produce a case neck of uniform 360 degree thickness and supposedly enhance accuracy. I suppose for bench rest and match shooters, it might produce a small accuracy boost, but I have never noticed it doing anything wonderful for me and my shooting.

2. It is often helpful in cast bullet shooting, IF the bullet is so large, that the round won't chamber easily and/or not have enough clearance for the brass to expand a tad when the bullet is released.

I have a Krag rifle with a .312 groove diameter and required a .313 bullet for decent accuracy. A round loaded with a .313 bullet is a tight fit in the chamber neck, so I neck turn a few thou off the case necks to fix the issue.

I have not found it to be needed or helpful to turn the neck of cases fired in an 03A3 rifle. The military chamber is plenty generous to allow a round with proper sized case bullet to be chambered and fired without issue.

Caveat: As you look at gun boards on the Net, you frequently find arm chair experts who like to major on the minor issues. Posting about the esoterica of handloading makes them look like knowledgeable and experienced folks, which most often they are not. The net result is it gets new folks chasing rabbits that don't need to be chased. Pay more attention to your targets, than gun board blather! Lots of us muddled through to good shooting long before there were computers, the Internet or a digital anything. Hell, I can remember when the transistor was a technological miracle!

[Finnmike]

Wow...just the input I was looking for, gentlemen! I'll go back to ensuring uniform case lengths. As a side-note, I also got an eyefull out of reading the article on the development of 2-groove barrels from the Remington Society page.

[fa38]

For my 03-A3 I use range pickup cases from our annual deer sight in. I run them thru a small base die, trim to length, turn the necks, work over the flash holes, and primer pockets. After the first firing some of them get really short 8 to 10 thousandths, while most shorten only 2 or 3 thousandths. I think the variations are due to brass hardness by having been reloads for some of the sight in people.

I used to do all the above plus weighing the case when I shot hunter rifle using 300 Savage brass reformed into a 30x47 case. I still do it for almost all of my shooting including the cases used in my Schuetzen rifle where I breech seat the bullets. In a breech seating Schuetzen rifle the case has almost no effect unless there is an extreme variation in internal volume.

Maybe doing all the above for an 03-A3 is just a waste of time. Not much if anything about the action, stock, barrel or gunsmithing is bench rest quality. It does give me something to do shooting related, keeps me out of the bars and it sure can’t hurt the accuracy of the rifle.

[Char-Gar]

fa38

1. If top end accuracy means anything to you, stick with one make and lot of brass.

2. If you loaded the rifle in the range house and went to the bench with a loaded rifle, we would kick you off the range. Don't care how cold it is.

[sundog]

All of my dedicated brass for military bolt matches for 03A3 is outside neck turned, primer pocket uniformed, flash hole deburred, neck sized and kept to uniform length. I think it makes a difference, but if it does not then two things have happened. It helps my confidence and it didn't really take that long to prep it.

I cannot prove this, nor would I want to try, but I think it helps make uniform neck tension and improves concentricity. It also allows more clearance for fatter boolits. Since about 1995 I have shot well over 6,000 record rounds in military bolt matches, and it works for me.

[Larry Gibson]

Inside neck reaming (if done correctly) or outside neck turning can improve the concentric uniformity of the bullets alignment with the bore. This is particularly the case with milsurp cases from ball ammo, especially those formed from another case (8mm, 7mm, 7.65, et. from '06 cases). All things being equal though you need to be shooting at 200+ yards and/or have a rifle capable of very good accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[fa38]

>>>>char gar

2. If you loaded the rifle in the range house and went to the bench with a loaded rifle, we would kick you off the range. Don't care how cold it is.<<<<

The bolt is left on the shooting bench and its a pretty lonely place during the winter.
Hell we can even carried loaded firearms in the car during deer season or with a concealed carry permit

[Char-Gar]

Here is Texas anybody can have a loaded rifle or shotgun in their car, as long as it is not on the property where alcohol is sold. It does not require a license or permit of any kind. Anybody can also have a loaded handgun in their car under the same circumstances.

You can walk down the streets with a loaded rifle or shotgun and do so lawful. Not so with a handgun. You must have it concealed and have a CWP.