Fact or myths of reloading

[newcastter]

I have heard that you should not reload brass fired out of a glock because of a unsupported chamber, So does this mean I should not pick up brass at the range?
Anyone know if this is a fact or just a myth?
Also has anyone else heard of any myths out there or even facts that are questioned?

[Walter Laich]

I heard that casting will save you money :)

[Ben]

It will save you money ( after you've spent $4,000 dollars on molds, sizing dies , top punches, lube sizers, etc. )

[Moondawg]

I heard that black powder smoke smelled good and that shooting BP didn't gunk up your firearm.

[1Shirt]

Just 4 grand Ben? Must have all been wholesale!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[mongo]

I use a Lee sizer die and it removes the bulge out of the brass. I put a storm lake barrel in my Glock and have shot many a once bulged case with no problems at all. I pick it all up, Then I go down to the backstop and pick up all the lead and re-use it also, If its free its for me, LOL

[newcastter]

I heard that casting will save you money :)

Yes I started out reloading 1 cal. 2 years ago and now I reload for 4 cast for 2 and swage for 1 thats cost me around 1,000 plus the gun I had to build to shoot my .223 swaged from 22LR
So reloading and casting will save you money will save you money is a myth Good One

[Reverend Recoil]

Story I have often heard, "Reloads of mixid brass lots and brands will not shoot accurately."

I use mixed brass and match bullets for my 223 Rem/5.56 NATO service rifle practice loads. My experience is at 200 yd. they shoot well as any other ammo I have fired.

[Dframe]

"Glock Brass" is real. The notoriously loose 40 glock chamber sometimes will cause a bulge in the case wall. Usually careful resizing will "Iron" it back into place. I may be overly cautious, but I do not reload glock brass to maximum pressures. Just being a bit careful in case the brass could be weakened slightly by a relatively large displacement in the case walls. I've shot 40 calibre glock cases at slightly lower pressures for many years without a problem.

[Jammer Six]

Speaking of Glocks, I heard that you can walk right through a metal detector onto an airliner with a fully loaded Glock.

[1hole]

Four very common myths:

Neck sizing cases will get better accuracy and they will last longer too.

Seating rifle bullets at or into the lands is more accurate.

Powder charges need to be consistant to .1 gr. for accuracy.

Bullet 'tension' (inside neck diameter) should be at least 3 or 4 thou smaller than bullet diameter.

[superscifi12]

I heard that black powder smoke smelled good and that shooting BP didn't gunk up your firearm.

Both of those are not myths - it smells great and stays clean.

[zomby woof]

It will save you money ( after you've spent $4,000 dollars on molds, sizing dies , top punches, lube sizers, etc. )

Yea,
I'm still waiting to save money.

[noylj]

Four very common myths:

Neck sizing cases will get better accuracy and they will last longer too.
This is usually true, in my experience. However, with an off-the-shelf rifle, you'll never see the difference.

Seating rifle bullets at or into the lands is more accurate.
Again, many time this is true. Somewhere between on the rifling and 0.02" off the rifling.

Powder charges need to be consistent to .1 gr. for accuracy.
It is impossible to convince some how ridiculous this one is. A 43.0gn charge, and they are convinced that their rifle can sense that 0.1gn too much or too little powder.

Bullet 'tension' (inside neck diameter) should be at least 3 or 4 thou smaller than bullet diameter.
Should be 0.002-0.001". 3-4 will give case bulge and can swage a boolit down.

[Got-R-Did]

I don't know about saving money, but I do shoot nearly three times as much.
Got-R-Did

[waksupi]

Speaking of Glocks, I heard that you can walk right through a metal detector onto an airliner with a fully loaded Glock.

Yeah, right. Let me know how that works out for you.

[jeff423]

My brother in law lived once in MA. He told me he had to keep drinking beer because he was making so much money returning the empties.
That's the way I feel about reloading - every time I shoot 100 .38 specials I'm saving $28.00, and that's the cheap stuff. Maybe I should "not shoot" Hornady Critical Defense, then I'd be saving $68.00 per hundred. At that rate I'll soon be a millionaire.

Jeff

[41 mag fan]

I heard that casting will save you money :)


I heard that too...rest assured it's a myth on my end.

[MBTcustom]

Well you did right by asking these fellas instead of blindly believing whatever is fed you by the gun manufacturers/ammo manufacturers/media/government. However, if you spend a few months on here and read, read, read, your BS-ometer will start getting much more sensitive. I used to think that my knowledge of reloading was totally BS free, but the list of myths that I operated on is growing and growing. At this point the only thing that I know for sure that I had right when I came here was that guns go bang. Boy I'm glad I found this site!

[Kevin Rohrer]

I have heard that you should not reload brass fired out of a glock because of a unsupported chamber,

Myth, myth, myth.

[Roundnoser]

Yeah, right. Let me know how that works out for you.

The feds don't allow internet access in prison.:shock:

[cardonasharp]

The cost to set up is very expensive. It depends on the type of press you purchase. Single stage press like a Lee is about $30.00 to Dillon 1050 $1100.00.
It cost me about $3.00 to $ 4.00 to reload 50 45ACP rounds. I am using free wheel weights. So it all depends on how much you go to the range to justify the original cost of your set up and how fancy to want it.

[wiljen]

Surplus powders are inherently dangerous because you never know what the burn rate is going to be unlike canister grade stuff.

Lead bullets will wear out a barrel more quickly than jacketed.

Lead bullets dont need lube, jacketed bullets do just fine without it so lead should be ok too.

It's ok to fire 308s in a 30-06 chamber, that is what they were designed for by the military.

Duplex loads are creating a bomb on purpose.

The 9mm is a much better round than the 38 special.
'
The Mauser action is a much better design than the 1903, 1917, etc etc etc (Most of which are direct copies of the Mauser).


The list of garbage that floats the web makes the junk floating in the Pacific from the Japanese tragedy look like a fly swimming in Lake Superior.

[milprileb]

I got a lot of Glock fired range brass and reload it for my 1911 and it works just fine.

Since the choir is talking about myths on reloading I will lay a few on you that are not myths but facts:

a. Reloading is a hobby and you buy any tool you want cause you decided you needed it...just like any tool set.
b. Like any tool set you actually use: it pays you a life time of use dividends
c. Reloading/ casting is enjoyable hobby. You would not be reading this far if it was not.
d. Folks talk like its nothing to spend huge bucks on a rifle but they will snivel about the
small cost of reloading tools to keep such rifles stoked with match grade ammo.
e. Reloading does save money but if you meter your time as a element, then you will lose out. If your time is so expensive, then give up on reloading and don't go shooting either and for goodness sakes, give up on hunting entirely. No profits in days spent and not bagging
a trophy buck with your time meter running.

I own over 90 weapons: reloading is the support system that allows me to enjoy a shooting life and that is pure fact.

Want a myth ? You can save money getting married !
Want a fact about that: Bachelors should practice "Catch & Release" with women.

[7of7]

...
I own over 90 weapons: reloading is the support system that allows me to enjoy a shooting life and that is pure fact.
...

90,... Isn't that a bit excessive for one person to own? :kidding:
If you need some assistance excercising all of them, just give a call... [smilie=s:

[1hole]

Myth: Neck sizing cases will get better accuracy and they will last longer too.

noylj: "This is usually true, in my experience. However, with an off-the-shelf rifle, you'll never see the difference."

In my 46 years of reloading experience neither part of this myth is 'usually' true. The accuracy part is (very) occasionally true but I'd have to ask what percentage of us you suspect use anything other than "off the shelf" sporting rifles?

Cases usually fail due to neck splits and the necks don't care if they were sized in a Neck or FL die. Well, Lee's Collet and other brands of bushing neck dies change that, a little bit, but what percentage of us would you guess actually use either of those specialty dies?
------------------------------

Myth: "Seating rifle bullets at or into the lands is more accurate."

noylj: "Again, many time this is true. Somewhere between on the rifling and 0.02" off the rifling."

Many is not most, sometimes it's true but rarely. So, the stand-alone statement is a myth.

Most "off the shelf" rifles using common game bullets will shoot their best anywhere from 20 thou off the lands to as much as five or six times that much; none of that is "at or into the lands." Efforts to load our sloppy chambered factory sporters with conventional bullets as if they are BR rigs is amusing, at least to me.

[22Short]

Hmmm... my Glock 22 (40 S&W) does not bulge it's brass at all. But it's a 4th generation gun. I believe the early guns did. :eek:

[1Shirt]

I do have to say that I have found that neck sizing (using lee collet dies) improves accuracy as long as:
1.Cases are trimmed as necessary.
2. Necks are annealed (about every 4-5th loading for me).
3. Loads are exact with pdr and blt wt.
4. Same lots of brass (headstamp) are used.
5. Blts are seated to length close to the max of the bbl capacity.
This seems to be particularly true with the smaller cals like .224 and .245 up thru i7MM for grouping. Differences from my experiance can make as much as 1/4 to
1/2 inch in groups. Have found this to be true of both production rifles as well as heavy varmint rifles. Just my opinion however.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[newcastter]

"Glock Brass" is real. The notoriously loose 40 glock chamber sometimes will cause a bulge in the case wall. Usually careful resizing will "Iron" it back into place. I may be overly cautious, but I do not reload glock brass to maximum pressures. Just being a bit careful in case the brass could be weakened slightly by a relatively large displacement in the case walls. I've shot 40 calibre glock cases at slightly lower pressures for many years without a problem.

How do you carefully resize "you raise the ram and lower it"

[toolz568]

I have had to run the brass through a Lee bulge buster die. Most of the time it works; sometimes it gets put in a pile to become 45 bullets.

__________________________
I used to reload to shot, now I shoot so I can reload.

[John Boy]

Gents, I'm a BPCR shooter and sight in at 200yds for range shooting out to 1000yds.
BPCR Facts:
* Neck sizing cases will get better accuracy ... 0.001 to 0.002"
* Bullet dependent ... Seating rifle bullets at or into the lands is more accurate.

Myth: Smoking ones pipe while reloading is unsafe and not relaxing! :popcorn:

[newcastter]

* Bullet dependent ... Seating rifle bullets at or into the lands is more accurate.


What is BPCR?
How does one find out how deep or not deep to seat the bullet to be at or into the lands?

[wiljen]

What is BPCR?


Black Powder Cartridge Rifle competition



How does one find out how deep or not deep to seat the bullet to be at or into the lands?

find a lead bullet that has a long full diameter length. For example something like the 314299 makes a good choice in 30-06 etc. Load a bullet in a case with no primer or powder as long as possible and do not crimp it.

Close the bolt on the round to push the bullet back into the case. You should see marks on the nose of the bullet where the lands touch and by measuring the distance from the case mouth to those marks you know the length of the throat.

Different bullets will still need to be loaded to different overall lengths as different bullets have differing ogives.

[Recluse]

Four very common myths:

Neck sizing cases will get better accuracy and they will last longer too.

I've found I get more consistent accuracy with neck-sized cases. As far as lasting longer, I can tell that with rimmed cases, such as .303, they absolutely last longer. But I'm also a fanatic about annealing my cases, too. And no rifle round that I want to be accurate gets loaded without first being fully prepped (cleaned, trimmed, chamfered, etc).


Seating rifle bullets at or into the lands is more accurate.

That's pretty open ended and it depends on the individual weapon/cartridge composition (components used to assemble the cartridge)/conditions at the time the weapon is fired.

I personally have found it to help consistent accuracy in virtually every instance for me, but then again, see above and you'll see that I'm very consistent with my preparation work, so bullet seating depth is part of the overall process and equation for me.

Simply seating to the lands by itself? *Shrug* Dunno. But I do believe that along with everything else you do as a serious handloader to assemble a case, it is part of the overall difference in improved accuracy.

:coffee:

[Sonnypie]

It will save you money ( after you've spent $4,000 dollars on molds, sizing dies , top punches, lube sizers, etc. )

It certainly does save you money!
It's that first boolit that costs $4,000.00
After that, the rest are free!

(Is casting boolits tax deductible?) :groner:

[Chicken Thief]

Static will make powder (black and smokeless) go bang!

[Reload3006]

LOL Its true its true send it to me for safe disposal:bigsmyl2:

[Dennis Eugene]

Originally by goodsteel
At this point the only thing that I know for sure that I had right when I came here was that guns go bang. Boy I'm glad I found this site! Sorry buddy, but it is the primers and powder that go bang the gun just lays there. :kidding:

[cigarman454]

I have heard that you should not reload brass fired out of a glock because of a unsupported chamber, So does this mean I should not pick up brass at the range?
You do need to pick it up at the range and ship it to me. I'll dispose of it properly.:bigsmyl2:

[UNIQUEDOT]

It's that first boolit that costs $4,000.00
After that, the rest are free!


Perhaps that first boolit should be placed behind glass and put on display. :mrgreen:

[lead chucker]

It will save you money ( after you've spent $4,000 dollars on molds, sizing dies , top punches, lube sizers, etc. )

Yes but that $4,000.00 puts meat on the table.

[KohlerK91]

Efforts to load our sloppy chambered factory sporters with conventional bullets as if they are BR rigs is amusing, at least to me.

What are you saying; should we just "slop" together some ammo for our "sloppy" chambers.

[drklynoon]

Interesting read here. I neck size my .303 because it shoots great like that and my .303 eats brass (except for Norma) As far as not shooting Glock Brass if it reshapes without splitting I wouldn't worry about it.
Casting/Reloading saves money. Well this can be true. I save a bundle shootiing my .45 colt. 50 dollars a box versus 8 dollars that adds up quick.

Myth: You can't reload accurate ammo with Lee tools.

[MightyThor]

Speaking of Glocks, I heard that you can walk right through a metal detector onto an airliner with a fully loaded Glock.

When you go to try this I would like to be there to watch. This would make a great "World's Dumbest... " video.

[newcastter]

Seeing I'm only into reloading for 2years now I have alot to learn so I need to hear more from you guys.
So far I'm hearing some good stuff but I would like to know more actual facts and myths as well, I am learning alot from this forum so thanks alot guys.

[milprileb]

It certainly does save you money!
It's that first boolit that costs $4,000.00
After that, the rest are free!

Now that is a Classic, I will frame it and put over my bench. My wife will certainly agree no doubt.

As to the offer of help exercising my 90 plus weapons, I had to pull my favorite 15 and focus on them. Otherwise, I get no where and master nothing. If I cast for all of them, I need a foundry.

[1hole]

"What are you saying; should we just "slop" together some ammo for our "sloppy" chambers. "

You jump too fast and much too far. Facts are facts; no factory rifle is made to BR standards so "precision" work and components passed the finite accuracy limits of the rifle are meaningless. But, if you find that offensive, you have my blessings to agonize over all the trivia you wish - trivial pursuit can be fun. All I'm saying is I've learned there are limits to what any firearm will ever notice in its ammo.

I used to go WAY overboard loading for factory rifles myself, at least until I learned what actually matters, and expect you will too. But you'll have to get there with experience, not reading reloading columns in magazines or listening to gun shop bull sessons.

Have fun!! :)

[Reload3006]

"what are you saying; should we just "slop" together some ammo for our "sloppy" chambers. "

you jump too fast and much too far. Facts are facts; no factory rifle is made to br standards so "precision" work and components passed the finite accuracy limits of the rifle are meaningless. But, if you find that offensive, you have my blessings to agonize over all the trivia you wish - trivial pursuit can be fun. All i'm saying is i've learned there are limits to what any firearm will ever notice in its ammo.

I used to go way overboard loading for factory rifles myself, at least until i learned what actually matters, and expect you will too. But you'll have to get there with experience, not reading reloading columns in magazines or listening to gun shop bull sessons.

Have fun!! :)
+1 100%

[mdi]

I have heard that you should not reload brass fired out of a glock because of a unsupported chamber, So does this mean I should not pick up brass at the range?
Anyone know if this is a fact or just a myth?
Also has anyone else heard of any myths out there or even facts that are questioned?
I understand that .40 cal ammo (a high pressure round) shot from a Glock with an "unsupported" chamber can be dangerous reloaded (weakened brass + high pressure = kaboom...). I don't shoot .40 S&W, so all this is from what I've read on the subject.

[mdi]

I been reading some more of the posts here and some of the "myths" debunked are facts/methods/ practices that will differ from gun to gun, not absolutely true nor false. For example distance from the lands to the bullet. The only "fact" about this is some guns shoot more accurately with bullets close to the lands (.005" to .010") and some want bullets farther away (.020" to as long as will fit the case). Calling either case (far from lands vs close to lands) a myth is inaccurate at best. Same with cast lead bullet diameter vs groove diameter, guns differ in what shoots best from them...

[1hole]

"The only "fact" about this is some guns shoot more accurately with bullets close to the lands (.005" to .010") and some ..."

Mdi, being a myth doesn't require that something never be true, it's enough that it's usually untrue. In this instance, the "myth" comes when it's stated that "seating on the lands" gives best accuracy. That's wrong because it doesn't allow for exceptions which, IME, are about 95% of the time when shootin' factory rifles. Anyone who makes a flat out statement about ANYTHING that is supposed to be dependable for 'best' accuracy will lie to you about other stuff too.

[mpmarty]

Regarding boolit in lands, How about all those spendy pretty Weatherby rifles out there with their half inch of freebore? Anyone care to comment? My neighbor swears by his 300 WM as a tack driver. I haven't had the pleasure of trying it out from a bench.

[newcastter]

Heres a myth I have heard/read before, Myth- A 1:9 twist barrel on a AR will not stabalize a 75gr bullet or more
This weight shoots the best at long ranges with my 1:9 twist barrel

[wv109323]

I have read after a guy on another forum. He is a commercial reloader. Here is what he believes and practices.
His insurance company will not allow him to sell his reloads to someone that he knowingly fires them in a Glock.
He will not reuse brass fired in a Glock nor will he obtain brass if there is a remote chance it came from a Glock.
He claims the damage done to the brass casing is irreversable after it has been fired in some Glocks. He claims resizing or roll resizing will not "undo" the damage. The damage to the case depends on the tolerances of the Glock chamber and the particular thickness of a piece of brass. The damage is microscopic and is a metalurgical failure not visable to the eye.
The caliber most acceptable to catastrophic failure is the .40 S&W, the 9MM and then the .45ACP in that order. This is based on operating pressures, Pistol design and brass dimensions.
He goes by the name Ammoguru. Google it. It seems to me he knows what he is talking about.

[miestro_jerry]

Another Glock myth, the 45 GAP is a crappy round. I own a Glock G37 and a G38, both 3rd generation pistols (I believe). The 45 GAP is an odd round, but many police departments seem to be buying them. Plus when the local Cabela store had an end cap loaded with 45 GAP, it empty quickly.
Will this cartidge hang around, who knows, does the pistol shoot reloads, very well. I just don't shoot cast bullets or copper washed bullet in my Glocks or my HK P7.
After far accuracy, I have no problem with the pistols, the ground hogs don't get back flip me off, so it must be good.

Jerry

[newcastter]

Here is one please everyone with "factual opinion join in" Myth or Fact "Don't carry any reload for protection cus if you have to eliminate someone the prosecuting attorney will try to eat you alive because there is no research on the lethality or consistency of the load"

I have heard and read this opinion, I also know folks on this forum who carry their own swaged bullets in there carry weapon so whats the actual risks???

[GT27]

I have never had a CCI primer failure in the 30 years and tens of thousands of rounds I've reloaded!( Not a myth) Only 1 case failure!(Not a myth) still have all fingers,and thumbs on both hands(Not a myth) Knocking on wood after these statements (Definitely not a myth) GT27:bigsmyl2:

[waksupi]

Here is one please everyone with "factual opinion join in" Myth or Fact "Don't carry any reload for protection cus if you have to eliminate someone the prosecuting attorney will try to eat you alive because there is no research on the lethality or consistency of the load"

I have heard and read this opinion, I also know folks on this forum who carry their own swaged bullets in there carry weapon so whats the actual risks???


Right around zero.

[warf73]

Regarding boolit in lands, How about all those spendy pretty Weatherby rifles out there with their half inch of freebore? Anyone care to comment? Mine will shoot nice sub 1/2" off the bench when I do my part. My neighbor swears by his 300 WM as a tack driver. I haven't had the pleasure of trying it out from a bench.

The above statement being said my dad bought one because of how well mine shot. His on a good day will shoot 1 1/2" groups may it be factory ammo or worked up handloads.

[0verkill]

Biggest reloading myth:

Handloaded ammo is not as good, safe, reliable or accurate as factory ammunition. HA!

[3006guns]

One of my all time favorites from Phil Sharpe:

"This author agrees. Most of these foreign rifles are pure junk and will hang on the wall if this author has anything to say about it".

Quoted from memory. Anyone want to buy all my junk/dangerous milsurps that I've been having fun with for over thirty years?

[0verkill]

For some reason that myth never seems to apply to German rifles, at least that I've heard. At least that myth has lead to me getting a couple of Carcano's cheap.

Here's another - Cast bullets are only good for plinking, and even then only if you don't mind cleaning your gun for hours afterwords. I'm sure everyone at this site "knows" how "true" that on is.

[Roundnoser]

Yeah, right. Let me know how that works out for you.

His lawyer will.

[Mike Kerr]

I have been patiently waiting for the savings from reloading for a long time. Maybe I should check the mailbox again tomorrow, the savings are bound to arrive soon.

This thread is a hoot.

:):):)

[blikseme300]

I heard that casting will save you money :)

+1[smilie=l:

[largom]

I have been patiently waiting for the savings from reloading for a long time. Maybe I should check the mailbox again tomorrow, the savings are bound to arrive soon.

This thread is a hoot.

:):):)


I would need a bigger mailbox. Maybe thats why my savings have'nt shown up yet.

Larry

[newcastter]

I am actually seeing savings now. I can go out and shoot whenever I want even if I'm broke I can load a few boxes and role.

[Waldog]

I have heard that:
1) People hear Angels while loading on a Dillon.
2) You can never get a double charge with a auto-index progressive press.
3) The only color in the rainbow is Blue.
4) LC 7.62 brass was never fired in a Machine Gun
5) The only handgun worth having is a 1911 in 45ACP

[LUBEDUDE]

I have heard that:
1) People hear Angels while loading on a Dillon.
2) You can never get a double charge with a auto-index progressive press.
3) The only color in the rainbow is Blue.
4) LC 7.62 brass was never fired in a Machine Gun
5) The only handgun worth having is a 1911 in 45ACP


Good ones!

[smilie=l:

And #'s 1,3,and 5 are very near and dear to my heart!

[Jammer Six]

Oh.

Those were angels?

[kmag]

myth: Don't ever tumble a loaded round to clean it. It will break down the powder into a finer powder and burn faster and raise the pressure. Someone should tell our ammunition manufacturing company's to stop doing it.

2: Told an old gunsmith recently that I cleaned a trigger group with WD-40 and compressed air because I was out of gun scrubber. He stated " Don't ever spray WD-40 on gun springs it will make them soft. This man had been a gunsmith for many years, he is in his late 70's and has been a factory service rep. for most firearm company's in the past.

3: Had another gunsmith in NC unload his S&W mod 19 and only had 5 rounds in it. Asked why and said to always rest the hammer on an empty chamber. That way if the hammer was struck or the pistol was dropped it would not discharge. He had a range beside his shop we went to it and gave him a demonstration of the safety features built into modern smith firearms.

4. A police Sgt./ range officer at a large PD told me that putting Dry Slide in a S&W action would gum the gun up and ruin it.

5. Dry firing a 38 spec. will break the firing pin.

Can't count or remember all of the BS I've heard over the years.

[waksupi]

I've never heard of WD-40 making springs soft, but it does enough other bad things to a gun, that I never use it on them. I suppose if enough of it builds up, it could slow a spring.

[jimkim]

Lee presses will date your sister, knock her up, then dissolve.

[Mooseman]

I was told on another Forum...
You will die from Lead poisoning if you cast Boolits![smilie=b:

[rsrocket1]

You'll shoot your eye out.

[KYCaster]

Everything you read on the internet is true.

Jerry

[BD]

In my experience the more sloppy a bottle neck chamber, and or throat, the more benefit there is from neck sizing brass, both in accuracy and brass life. The two significant examples I own are milsurp swedes, and Weatherby mags.

I've owned a half dozen old swedes, and still shoot two regularly. All the swedes I've tried, (at least the ones that hadn't been wreaked by Bubba), would hold 1" to 1 1/2" @ 100 yards with jacketed ammo. Any of those swedes which would hold an inch proved capable of 1/2" using the same load in brass formed to that particular chamber and neck sized only. The two I kept will hold near 1/4" when I'm on my game.

I only have the one .270 WBY mag, but it's on it's second barrel, and both barrels showed 1/2 the group size and twice the brass life using neck sizing only. In my experience absolute accuracy in the .270 WBY is a somewhat unique game. Interestingly both barrels produced smaller groups at 300 yards than @ 200. Go figure. I'd love to see a real slow motion video of this barrel shooting.

IMHO using neck sized only brass gives the bullet a much better chance of being somewhat centered in the long throats common to these two chamberings. In both instances there's not much chance of seating out far enough to get near the lands.
BD

[altitude_19]

"A half-charge will actually cause a pressure spike and blow up your gun."
Yeah... I'll have to remember that I can get higher pressure from lower charges. In theory I should be able to get peak velocities from .1 gr charges. :coffeecom

[Springfield]

Half-charged cartridges WILL blow up your gun as long as you remember to fill up the other half with an extra bullet. [smilie=l: Almost did it once due to a die full of sticky lube. Now I clean them out more often.

[Jammer Six]

"The dangers of exceeding the upper limits of various loadings should, by now, be clear to the reader. There is, though, an apparent danger from going in the opposite direction. A certain amount of press has been given to a phenomenon known as detonation. This involves excessively high pressures generated by reduced loads of slow burning powders-- charges below those recommended by the reloading manuals. Never guess at the burning characteristics of a powder, nor exceed the recommended charges on either end of the loadings recommended in the manuals."

C. Rodney James, The ABC's Of Reloading Sixth Edition, (Iola: DBI Books, 1997), 15-16.

[KohlerK91]

"The dangers of exceeding the upper limits of various loadings should, by now, be clear to the reader. There is, though, an apparent danger from going in the opposite direction. A certain amount of press has been given to a phenomenon known as detonation. This involves excessively high pressures generated by reduced loads of slow burning powders-- charges below those recommended by the reloading manuals. Never guess at the burning characteristics of a powder, nor exceed the recommended charges on either end of the loadings recommended in the manuals."

C. Rodney James, The ABC's Of Reloading Sixth Edition, (Iola: DBI Books, 1997), 15-16.

There are people out there a whole lot smarter than the average "Cast Boolit forum member". They probably have more advance preasure testing gadgets too. So.......

Ill take there word for it. I for one am not willing to challange published load data.

[koehlerrk]

Some of these are legendary. I've been casting for three years now, mostly during the winter months. I get a lead test done every spring. To date, doc says any lead in my blood is below the threshold of the test, so he tells me to keep doing what I've been doing handling dear old galena.

Favorite myth? That the black powder flintlock is a terribly inaccurate weapon.

[rasto]

"A half-charge will actually cause a pressure spike and blow up your gun."
Yeah... I'll have to remember that I can get higher pressure from lower charges. In theory I should be able to get peak velocities from .1 gr charges. :coffeecom

I observed this "myth" on my own rifle.
I was disassembling .223 and pouring out the powder to be still in IPSC factor and obey recoil.
One fired shoot was so hot causing overpressure marks to the brass and the primer went out.
Hopefully it was shoot from my stubborn M4 Norinco and no visible damage caused.

[altitude_19]

Still can't buy it. That 223 could have just as easily been a double charge. theres ready no way to be sure. Does anyone have a documented case of a cartridge intentionally being undecharged and blowing up a gun? I was willing to hear the theory until I couldn't find a single verifiable instance of it happening...

[MakeMineA10mm]

I have heard that you should not reload brass fired out of a glock because of a unsupported chamber, So does this mean I should not pick up brass at the range?
Anyone know if this is a fact or just a myth?
Also has anyone else heard of any myths out there or even facts that are questioned?

For the most part, only an issue for the 40s and even then, there's a way to fix 'em:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/358543/redding-g-rx-base-sizing-die-kit-40-s-and-w

[MakeMineA10mm]

Still can't buy it. That 223 could have just as easily been a double charge. theres ready no way to be sure. Does anyone have a documented case of a cartridge intentionally being undecharged and blowing up a gun? I was willing to hear the theory until I couldn't find a single verifiable instance of it happening...

It's really, really hard to double-charge a 223...

[altitude_19]

And really, really impossible to prove what was in the round In question when it went off.

[KohlerK91]

Still can't buy it. That 223 could have just as easily been a double charge. theres ready no way to be sure. Does anyone have a documented case of a cartridge intentionally being undecharged and blowing up a gun? I was willing to hear the theory until I couldn't find a single verifiable instance of it happening...

You could be the first to try it if you would like to. Down load them in increments all the way to zero and have "someone else" post how far you got.:kidding:

[altitude_19]

You could be the first to try it if you would like to.
Already did. I dropped charges down until I was hitting below 300 fps and nary a sign of high pressure, despite my best efforts regarding variables in angle and attitude. I was even shooting over the chrony to watch for a spike in velocity that would follow a spike in pressure (equal and opposite reactions, people...remember?). Again, I ask if anyone can show where someone has intentionally replicated this condition with a camera rolling? I have heard valid THEORIES about how such a thing can happen..I'm just waiting for an intentional replication of the phenomena to prove it before I drink the kool-aid.

[KohlerK91]

Already did. I dropped charges down until I was hitting below 300 fps and nary a sign of high pressure, despite my best efforts regarding variables in angle and attitude. I was even shooting over the chrony to watch for a spike in velocity that would follow a spike in pressure (equal and opposite reactions, people...remember?). Again, I ask if anyone can show where someone has intentionally replicated this condition with a camera rolling? I have heard valid THEORIES about how such a thing can happen..I'm just waiting for an intentional replication of the phenomena to prove it before I drink the kool-aid.

Well then I gues you are just smarter than all the powder, primer, ammunition and bullet manufactures. You must have a fancy lab for testing preasure too.

Wait ........all you have to do is look for flat primers. No flat primer. Must mean no high preasures. Theres another myth.

High velocity= high preasure

Low velocity= low preasure

I am not too sure those two are fact.


Why dont they publish load data all the way down to Zero. It should be safe in ALL combinations of caliber, powder, brass, primers, and bullets. After all it's safe, you tested it.

There must be a reason for published load data. I am pretty sure they dont just make it up. Ther must have been an unsafe sitiuation somewhere in testing.

[Jammer Six]

If you go outside the bounds of manuals, avoid my range, please.

[rasto]

Somebode wanted proof?
Here you are
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7261/img3363n.th.jpg (http://img851.imageshack.us/i/img3363n.jpg/)
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/824/img3364zl.th.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/img3364zl.jpg/)

American Eagle (the flash hole was drilled as necklace)
There was no necessity do deprim the case after shoot because there was no primer!
I do not know the exact amount of powder but something around 17-18gr.
For somebody it is a myth but for me it is a very real thing

[waksupi]

We now know that we have another member who we can never rely on any load information he may give.

[rasto]

waksupi your post was as response to mine? Because I was just replying to misbelievers that it should happen and it is not the myth only.
I happened to me an year ago so I couldn't remember details.

[Murphy]

FACT: If you cast and reload enough years, you'll be able to speak of misses you've made that will make the even the most cynical of people doubt your word.

Murphy

[altitude_19]

If you go outside the bounds of manuals, avoid my range, please.
You can't make me! :Fire:

Somebode wanted proof?
Here you are
Again: Sorry, but it's no good unless you INTENTIONALLY assembled the undercharged cartridge in attempt to blow up the gun. Not calling you stupid...but the scientific method dictates that this can't be called a valid experiment. It's only an event that prompted the formulation of a hypothesis.

We now know that we have another member who we can never rely on any load information he may give.
Oh, no. PLEASE! Please take my load data! :kidding:

Well then I gues you are just smarter than all the powder, primer, ammunition and bullet manufactures. You must have a fancy lab for testing preasure too.
Good chance of that, but I doubt it. I call those guys the authority on everything. And all those geniuses to whom I've hand-built candle-lit shrines in my basement have yet to successfully replicate this happening in their fancy labs for testing "preasure." YET AGAIN: Tell me if they have.
Seriously...all this flaming for saying "show me"?
:hijack: All the same, the ideas of taste and manners aren't ENTIRELY lost on me.
Think I'll try to crank up another thread to learn more about this. And yes, I AM here to learn. [smilie=2:

[waksupi]

waksupi your post was as response to mine? Because I was just replying to misbelievers that it should happen and it is not the myth only.
I happened to me an year ago so I couldn't remember details.


Nope, not you!

[Casting Timmy]

Read PO Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol 1, it has a section about reduced loads. I can't remember if he was able to duplicate it, but he believed in it from all the blow up guns sent into him and the loads that they were shooting. I glanced at it tonight and he was talking about some of the more favorable conditions for making it happen.

The set of books are great for learning more about reloading myths, he did a lot of experiments blowing up guns to try and learn the truth of what caused what. The one experiment I though was interesting was starting with a 30 caliber barrel and shooting 30 caliber bullets, then redoing the chamber and throat bigger so 8mm bullets could be loaded and firing them through the barrel. If I remember right the pressure gauge couldn't even tell the bigger bullet was there. The bullet swaged down so fast it had no effect on raising pressure.

They're a great set up books and I believe that old reloading book website is going to start carrying reprints. I alwyas forget that website's name......hopefully someone else will remember it.

[altitude_19]

Read PO Ackley's Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol 1, it has a section about reduced loads.
I'll have a look. Thanks!

[Waldog]

Also look in Phillip Sharps book on handloading. It's an OLD book first published prior to WW II. And, published again a few timea in the 1950-1960's. He discusses blow-up with dramatically reduced powder charges.

[gandydancer]

I have heard you should always shoot your blackpowder firearms into the wind so when you go home your wife can enjoy the smell to. kind of like booze on your breath?

[noylj]

It has NEVER been shown in lab conditions. It can not be replicated.
Every one of those blow ups is MORE likely to have been a double charge.
People make mistakes. Powder has a set energy content and burn rate.
Apocryphal and anecdotal stories are not proof.
Light loads of 296/H110 does not blow up guns. Having a bullet and wad of partially burned powder stuck in the barrel will be a cause for problems if not noted.

[Reload3006]

It has NEVER been shown in lab conditions. It can not be replicated.
Every one of those blow ups is MORE likely to have been a double charge.
People make mistakes. Powder has a set energy content and burn rate.
Apocryphal and anecdotal stories are not proof.
Light loads of 296/H110 does not blow up guns. Having a bullet and wad of partially burned powder stuck in the barrel will be a cause for problems if not noted.

I wonder why Winchester Olin perpetuated this myth. Interesting.

[bmac1949]

MYTH: Reloaders and boolit casters can always come to a consensus on any issue.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Does anyone have a documented case of a cartridge intentionally being undercharged and blowing up a gun?

Only if it was a squib that stuck a boolit in the barrel! i contacted the powder companies about a decade ago asking the question you have put forth here and the responses i got from them was that "no one has ever been able to prove or disprove this phenomenon because no one has ever been able to duplicate it in laboratory tests".

[Saint]

If you consider how much I shoot my .44 mag I have already reloaded enough to pay for every bit of reloading equipment I own. Only problem with that mentality is that if I wasn't reloading I wouldn't be shooting it near as much. So in truth even though a box of reloads cost 1/4 the cost of factory I probably wouldn't be able to stomach 40+ bucks a box to shoot. LOL.

[ErikO]

The feds don't allow internet access in prison.:shock:

It's hard to get on the Prison Pistol Team as well. ;)

[Ickisrulz]

I have seen where people say not to vacuum up powder. I do with a shop vac, not a carpet type unit. Any evidence to the vacuum starting fires with spilt powder?

[W.R.Buchanan]

newcaster:

You need to do a search on the glock bulge, fixing the glock bulge, loading the .40 S&W, using a Lee FCD to fix the Glock Bulge, the unsupported chamber. and a few other topics that escape me.

All of this stuff has been discussed in excrushiating detail many times.

First learn what a "unsupported chamber" is,,, Then figure out if Glock really needs to be included in the same sentence.

The correct answer is 'NOT"!

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

newcastter: I have been trying to dispell this myth ever since I have been here. It gets brought up about once a month. Please don't be offended by my tone, I am old and grumpy. Besides this answer was not directed at you only.

Here's what you need to know.

By understanding what an unsupported chamber is,,, you would find out that all automatic pistols have them. They are a necessary reality. The fact that no one made this point, is exactly what my primary input was.

A fully supported chamber in a handgun is only possible on a revolver. Auto pistols have feed ramps, and those feed ramps must intersect the chamber at some point, and this point is where the cartridge is unsupported, or more properly "not fully supported."

Glocks are no worse than any other auto pistol in that regard. Granted the 1st generation Glock 22's were a little looser than the 2nd generation Glock 22's are, but that was fixed 15 years ago. By simply replacing the barrel any Old 1st gen Glock can be brought up to current specs in that regard.

The only reason all the other brands of pistols were not criticized for unsupported chambers is because they didin't exist yet! Glock preceeded them by 10-15 years.

Thus Glock got stuck with this bum wrap. It has become the lie that has been told so many times it is now considered the truth. IT is BS! The infamous Glock Kaboom! ooh scary.

This barf about "unsupported chambers" was perpetrated by some gun writer long ago and it has been regurgitated on Internet forums to the point where people use it like they know what they are talking about. It is a technical term that makes them sound knowledgable.

As far as the other references I gave, if you take the time to read them you would understand all of the nuances of loading the .40 S&W cartridge, how to fix the case bulge, what actually causes the case bulge in the first place, etc. and successfully and safely reload brass left by others who were to scared to reuse it.

Please don't take the tone of the comment the wrong way. I offered the only real answer to your question on this entire thread.

If you are loading .40 S&W and you are not picking up your brass, then I assure you someone else is. If there is a bunch there then get it and read the references above and use it. We all do.

"You can't use lead bullets either , because of the polygonal Rifling." That is another BS line that people barf up here consistantly. Yes you can, just ask around.

The first pic is the unsupported area in a Glock barrel. The second is the unsupported area in a 1911 barrel. Which one is more unsupported? Answer: the 1911, not the Glock.

But both are supported where it counts, and that's all that matters.

Randy

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2b43c795723.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3728)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f2b43e3c8fe7.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3729)

[newcastter]

Now that is some good info I can absorb and use, Thanks for your input and thoughts Randy

[Jammer Six]

I thought you couldn't use lead boolits in a Glock.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I thought you couldn't use lead boolits in a Glock.

Don't tell my buddy that. He's been using them in his Glock 23 .45 Cal. since he bought the gun. He's never blown the gun up and never had a problem with his reloads. The gun is ten years old or older and as far as I know, he's never changed the barrel either.

BTW, I'm not making any commentary one way or the other about Glocks in general. Only that my buddy has never had a problem with the Glocks.

[Clark]

I bought an old Glock 22 40 S&W 10 years ago.

It had a chamber so sloppy it did not meet SAAMI max dimensions.

Worse, the feed ramp intruded .235" and with the web of the cases .18" thick, that left .055" of thin unsuported case wall at the bottom of the chamber. This would make guppy belly case bulges with 30% more than book load powder charges.

So I TIG welded up the chamber and re cut the chamber to .180" feed ramp intrusion.

Now I can shoot 15.5 gr 800X 200 gr, which is the max load for 44 mag, and nearly a triple load for 40sw. That is not a practical load, as it takes double compression and more to get the powder to fit. And the recoil is so bad that a couple shots makes the hand hurt for hours.

[reloader45]

I have heard that you should not reload brass fired out of a glock because of a unsupported chamber, So does this mean I should not pick up brass at the range?
Anyone know if this is a fact or just a myth?
Also has anyone else heard of any myths out there or even facts that are questioned?

I have a second generation Glock22 (40s&w) that has been feed 100s and 100s rounds of lead and jacketed using the same casings at or near max and loaded on a Dillion 550B without any problem other a sore back from picking up where ever the cases land!
Other wise a Myth! Possibly started by those that are trying to tell their wife why they need a different barrel!!

[Big brass ones]

I like the unsupported barrel rumors and get lots of 40 S&w brass that way. I use to reload as is without bulge busting and would get a stubborn case or two that would not chamber. Finally i had one stuck so bad that I had to resort to tools to remove it. There is no forward assist on a pistol for a reason!!![smilie=b:

now i bulge bust with a FCD and innards removed.

[nanuk]

perhaps someone needs to sacrifice a rifle, and load some rounds with very slow powder, and only half a case, then shoot it straight down.....

303guy shoots straight down... but he hasn't blown a gun up yet.

[nanuk]

The feds don't allow internet access in prison.:shock:

Up here they do... the Criminals have a Constitutional right to it... go figger....


Speaking of Glocks, I heard that you can walk right through a metal detector onto an airliner with a fully loaded Glock.

sure you can... but you may get shot!



Lead bullets dont need lube, jacketed bullets do just fine without it so lead should be ok too.

IIRC, Layne Simpson, in an article in one of the Hodgdon Reload Manuals talks about that. He recommends no lube on the first round in a Muzzleloader.


It's hard to get on the Prison Pistol Team as well. ;)

several years ago, the Indigenous Summer Games, the Small Bore Rifle and Handgun shoot was held in our Maximum Security Prison, indoor shooting range.

[Bwana]

W.R. Buchanan writes:
"A fully supported chamber in a handgun is only possible on a revolver. Auto pistols have feed ramps, and those feed ramps must intersect the chamber at some point, and this point is where the cartridge is unsupported, or more properly "not fully supported."
I would say that the chamber on my G32 and the aftermarket Wolf 357 Sig bbl are fully supported. At least as supported as any rifle bbl. Also, concerning the proposition that revolver chambers are fully supported, I would disagree to the extent that in a swing out clyinder the chamber is "not supported" in the area where the extractor is. And in guns such as the Ruger single actions, and the afore mentioned guns, most of them have the clyinder bolt slot over or near to over the center of the chamber. This is where excessive pressure will manifest itself first due to harder extraction because of the thinner chamber wall.
The rest of your post is pretty much spot on.

[beex215]

if you reload lead, you will automatically get lead poisoned

[.22-10-45]

A very experienced reloader..loaded for quite a few police depts., once told me never to prime a case & leave unloaded for any length of time..His thought was, seating a primer puts tiny cracks in sealant & admits moisture? .... But fact. brass has been sold primed for years?

When I was a kid...couldn't wait to be old enough to shoot black powder..either in a M.L. or ctg. ......I just knew it was gonna have that sweet aroma my toy caps had!

[Three Bears]

Myth or fact? "One small drop of sweat in your molten lead pot and the entire batch blows up in your face". Have seen video of a guy dripping water in the lead pot and steam comes off - like a hot iron...:Fire:

[LUBEDUDE]

A very experienced reloader..loaded for quite a few police depts., once told me never to prime a case & leave unloaded for any length of time..His thought was, seating a primer puts tiny cracks in sealant & admits moisture? .... But fact. brass has been sold primed for years?




Speaking of primers: :coffeecom

A lot of these anal guys that shoot competition, uh well, me too (anal that is), would claim that if a primer hit the floor it would be contaminated, or at least if left past the 5 second rule. :brokenima



Well I've loaded primers found in the deep dark recesses under the bench that have been there for no telling how long.
I even found a Winchester primer that was OUTSIDE after I had quit using them and switched to Federals for well over 5 -6 months!
Guess what, it and all the the others went BANG!

Those primers made nowadays are pretty tough suckers. :wink:

[Casper29]

The. Brass from a Glock. Does have a bulged but Lee makes a bulged buster for range brass they work very well

[303Guy]

On the reduced loads causing kabooms - it has been duplicated in the lab. The powder burn rate is dependant on sufficient pressure build up but if the boolit can move forward quickly and freely the pressure drops and combustion slows and the boolit stops and can't get moving fast enough when the powder really starts to burn. Loads developed in a test barrel for the 6.5 Swede blew up factory guns. It was a powder specific thing but it explained what was happening. As for reduced load blowing up guns? Only if there is enough of it. It does not detonate. I've had projectiles jamb in the throat, trapping all the powder gasses in the chamber. Nothing happened. But then I had chosen a load that could not produce the pressure. It's a weird thing. The gun goes 'click' then nothing. Then you wait and wonder what happened then there's that hiss as the pressure escapes. (If there is no hiss then give the gun to someone you don't like [smilie=1:).

I use a filler when firing straight down although I have tried it without a filler.

[Bwana]

On the reduced loads causing kabooms - it has been duplicated in the lab. The powder burn rate is dependant on sufficient pressure build up but if the boolit can move forward quickly and freely the pressure drops and combustion slows and the boolit stops and can't get moving fast enough when the powder really starts to burn. Loads developed in a test barrel for the 6.5 Swede blew up factory guns. It was a powder specific thing but it explained what was happening. As for reduced load blowing up guns? Only if there is enough of it. It does not detonate. I've had projectiles jamb in the throat, trapping all the powder gasses in the chamber. Nothing happened. But then I had chosen a load that could not produce the pressure. It's a weird thing. The gun goes 'click' then nothing. Then you wait and wonder what happened then there's that hiss as the pressure escapes. (If there is no hiss then give the gun to someone you don't like [smilie=1:).

I use a filler when firing straight down although I have tried it without a filler.

Ok, let's see the data and the report. In court they call this reporting hearsay and while it may be interesting it is generally not admissible.

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=LUBEDUDE;1631943]Speaking of primers: :coffeecom
".....if a primer hit the floor it would be contaminated, or at least if left past the five-second rule."


Absolute, utter BS. A perfect example of one of the baseless MYTHS of handloading.

A few years ago, I did a test on primer contamination. I immersed (SUBMERGED!) some Large Pistol primers in a variety of liquids:

-WD40

-Hoppes #9

-gun oil

and left them to marinate for a while, removing a few from each bath every day for test-firing. It took THREE DAYS of total submersion before any primer displayed any weakening of its detonation,compared to an un-soaked 'control' primer.

Does anyone REALLY think that momentary contact with a floor is going to "CONTAMINATE" a primer?

Sheesh....

[Jammer Six]

I've always wondered-- does the five second rule apply to the floor of the men's room at a gas station?

[noylj]

The five second rule only applies to dry floors that you have control over and only for dry food. Butter, jam, etc. will fail the 5 second rule.
PS: where did ect. come from. It is etc. for et cetera.
Sorry, these pedantic moments come and go...

[Jammer Six]

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen a dry floor in a men's room.

[Mooseman]

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen a dry floor in a men's room.

Sounds like you need to stand closer....

(And WHO reloads in a gas station bathroom ? )

[Andy_P]

I bought an old Glock 22 40 S&W 10 years ago.

It had a chamber so sloppy it did not meet SAAMI max dimensions.

Worse, the feed ramp intruded .235" and with the web of the cases .18" thick, that left .055" of thin unsuported case wall at the bottom of the chamber. This would make guppy belly case bulges with 30% more than book load powder charges.

So I TIG welded up the chamber and re cut the chamber to .180" feed ramp intrusion.

Now I can shoot 15.5 gr 800X 200 gr, which is the max load for 44 mag, and nearly a triple load for 40sw. That is not a practical load, as it takes double compression and more to get the powder to fit. And the recoil is so bad that a couple shots makes the hand hurt for hours.

Typical interesting, thoughtful, innovative stuff from Clark - thanks. Most enthusiasts haven't had a single original thought, much less put any into action, and I've lost count with Clark.

[miltfarrow]

Funny! :)

[LUBEDUDE]

[QUOTE=LUBEDUDE;1631943]Speaking of primers: :coffeecom
".....if a primer hit the floor it would be contaminated, or at least if left past the five-second rule."


Absolute, utter BS. A perfect example of one of the baseless MYTHS of handloading.

A few years ago, I did a test on primer contamination. I immersed (SUBMERGED!) some Large Pistol primers in a variety of liquids:

-WD40

-Hoppes #9

-gun oil

and left them to marinate for a while, removing a few from each bath every day for test-firing. It took THREE DAYS of total submersion before any primer displayed any weakening of its detonation,compared to an un-soaked 'control' primer.

Does anyone REALLY think that momentary contact with a floor is going to "CONTAMINATE" a primer?

Sheesh....


I have heard of similar tests before.

Glad to hear it first hand.

[newcastter]

My Lyman Reloading manual say's NOT to even touch a primer with bare hands which I have done many many times as it is not easy pouring primers out of a square case into a round lee primer feed.

[Char-Gar]

My Lyman Reloading manual say's NOT to even touch a primer with bare hands which I have done many many times as it is not easy pouring primers out of a square case into a round lee primer feed.

I have long thought that Lyman uses idiots to write their stuff. This just proves it.

[429421Cowboy]

I have been warned many times about the evils of cast bullets of any type by the owner of our LGS, so much that i would now avoid them like the plague, if only these darn critters would quit dying when i shoot them and my guns would start to lead after all the boolits run down their bores!

[Bret4207]

Myth or fact? "One small drop of sweat in your molten lead pot and the entire batch blows up in your face". Have seen video of a guy dripping water in the lead pot and steam comes off - like a hot iron...:Fire:

Sort of a myth. What has to happen is for the liquid to get beneath the surface to a certain degree before it boils. If you were to take and ice cube and hold it under the surface at the bottom of the pot, you'd be a very unhappy person. Gently lay an ice cube on the surface of the melt and not much happens. Same for the rain drop, sweat, bug, whatever. Until it breaks the surface enough to get at laest partially under, not much much happens.

Ever see blasters work? Blow a mess of explosive on level ground and not much happens to the ground under the charge. Bury the charge and things change. Same idea.

[mud lake]

Sort of a myth. What has to happen is for the liquid to get beneath the surface to a certain degree before it boils. If you were to take and ice cube and hold it under the surface at the bottom of the pot, you'd be a very unhappy person. Gently lay an ice cube on the surface of the melt and not much happens. Same for the rain drop, sweat, bug, whatever. Until it breaks the surface enough to get at laest partially under, not much much happens.

Ever see blasters work? Blow a mess of explosive on level ground and not much happens to the ground under the charge. Bury the charge and things change. Same idea.

I can only report on my one and only experience with liquids and molten lead. Somehow water was introduced into the pot on the kitchen stove (cooling the mold?) and the after effects was a ceiling full of lead splotches, same for the area around the stove. My Guardian Angle was on duty so no harm came to me, God protects drunks and stupid young men with no experience and no mentors. This was my first attempt at casting and did I read up on it first? Like I said, Stupid and Young - I certainly didn't do any exhaustive reading on the subject. Let's face it, it can be dangerous and is dangerous if you dont know what your're doing. Now I wear the same gear as when welding - long sleeved shirts, full face mask, leather gloves and apron. Now I am too old to take chances cause I want to get even older!!

[dragon813gt]

Everyone on the Internet is capable of shooting sub M.O.A. groups offhand with every firearm conceivable at any distance. I find that one very entertaining. Maybe it's because I hunt. But all I need is minute of deer accuracy. And I like ringing gongs more than trying for one hole groups.


Brought to you by TapaTalk.

[Texantothecore]

"Black powder becomes more powerful and more dangerous as it ages."

Rough quote of an interview with a curator of an exhibition of blackpowder rifles at a large museum in Chicago. It appeared in the Chicago Tribune.

The admittedly young curator also stated in the interview that after having an "expert", with special tools and chemicals (Dawn Dishwashing liquid, water and an clock oiling syringe), empty one gun of powder and ball and a half full powder horn: "It was the equivalent of 10 lbs. of Dynamite!"

The young lad should be allowed to handle neither Dynamite nor black powder. His ignorance is astonishing.

[Texantothecore]

She: .50 calibre black powder rifles are illegal.

Me: Indeed Madame? I own two ...

Madame: No, I know they are not legal.

Me: Madame, I am sure that the expertise of someone who has never in her life handled a firearm is vastly superior to someone like myself who has actually shot them for two decades.

Madame: Well! (she leaves in a huff)

[Catshooter]

303guy,

I too would like further data on this please. Link or something?

From what I have read no lab has been able to make it happen.

Thanks.


Cat

[Bwana]

Everyone on the Internet is capable of shooting sub M.O.A. groups offhand with every firearm conceivable at any distance. I find that one very entertaining. Maybe it's because I hunt. But all I need is minute of deer accuracy. And I like ringing gongs more than trying for one hole groups.
Brought to you by TapaTalk.

I don't remember the last time I fired a rifle off hand. But then I don't hunt, or kill critters, either.

[Jammer Six]

I think off hand rifle shooting is a defensive tactic used against dangerous game, like geese and ducks.

[SandSquid]

Yea,
I'm still waiting to save money.

Simple.....
When a bud asks: "can you reload .## caliber for me"

If it's a caliber I shoot, I tell them:
I give you back 1 reload for each 4 good brass you give me.

If it's a caliber I do not shoot I tell them:
"You buy the dies, primers, powder, bullets, and provide the brass. When I'm dome I keep the dies and any left-overs"

:idea:

[DeanWinchester]

Myth:
You can cast for guns you have and save money


Fact:
You can build guns for boolits you already cast and spend a fortune.
...and the congregation said AMEN!

[Benji40]

loooove this hobby

[sourceofuncertainty]

Myth: it's easy to get cheap or free wheel weights.

Fact: maybe for many of you 15 years ago, and maybe for some of you now. But it sure ain't for me :-)

[newcastter]

Myth, Steel cases cannot be reloaded.
I just loaded 100 223 wolf steel cases with ease.....

[noylj]

My results for that little trick is that the reloading goes just fine. The "in-the-gun" performance, however, leaves a LOT to be desired.
For steel cases, would the annealing operation be to heat them up and then let them slowing cool in order to "soften" the case mouths?

[huntnfish72]

Reloading saves money.... That there is funny

[MasS&W]

.38 special with cast bullets can't kill things.

[newcastter]

You cant shoot a Gas Check boolit without the Gas Check

[I'll Make Mine]

You can't push cast bullets to factory jacketed velocity.

[Rangefinder]

You can't push cast bullets to factory jacketed velocity.

Shhhhhhhhush!! I've never told any of mine that yet and don't need 'em finding out now! They all just think I'm feeding 'em 'normal' ammo and haven't caught on yet! If my bores all start leading and accuracy falls off the table tomorrow, I'm blaming you! :D

[bowhunter]

56799 that throwing a double charge of bullseye would blow a 38 up.

[gunoil]

I have paid for all my lee stuff . I have saved a ton of money reloading cause i shoot almost every day. And weekends too! I work at fort bragg, i cast my own bullets, i dig in berms for lead and ride round town for WW (wheel weights) at 18 wheeler tire shops. I literally scoop up brass some weekends. I have 3 gallon buckets full of 45,40,9's. I even have half shoebox of 380. I buy powderand primers at county bi-monthly gunshow. I made my SS brass washer from youtube. I cast from a 20lb lee lead pot. I love reloading and this site is bigtime help, and youtube, and loadmaster.com....

[Jon]

That's my biggest fear with bullseye. If there is any doubt, the powder goes on the scale. Although my plinking loads are light enough, I could probably get away with a double charge.

[o6Patient]

Separating cases by weight, separating bullets by weight, trickling charges right down to
perfection, developing loads to the half tenth .. will make your hand loads significantly
more accurate.

[375supermag]

The biggest myth regarding reloading is that you will save money.
You will not!
You will be able to shoot a lot more for the same expense, but you will never save a dime.
In fact, over time, you will most probably move from reloading to casting to custom guns and acquire more and more expensive reloading and shooting equipment.
And you still won't save any money, but you will have invested a lot of time and money in an enjoyable hobby.
I am OK with that dynamic...what would I do with all that money I spent on shooting and reloading, anyway?

[Flinchrock]

Separating cases by weight, separating bullets by weight, trickling charges right down to
perfection, developing loads to the half tenth .. will make your hand loads significantly
more accurate.

Well,,,it ain't likely to make 'em any LESS accurate!!!

[L Erie Caster]

The biggest myth regarding reloading is that you will save money.
You will not!
You will be able to shoot a lot more for the same expense, but you will never save a dime.

Actually I have saved a lot of money, because I am too busy reloading to go to the bars and chase women. It’s all in how you look at it. :drinks:

[jdowney]

The biggest myth regarding reloading is that you will save money.
You will not!
You will be able to shoot a lot more for the same expense, but you will never save a dime.

That is it exactly, my hobby budget tends to expand to meet available liquidity at any given time :mrgreen:

[Love Life]

Separating cases by weight, separating bullets by weight, trickling charges right down to
perfection, developing loads to the half tenth .. will make your hand loads significantly
more accurate.

Separate bullets with a comparator first and THEN separate by weight.

Weigh each case empty and separate. Then grab your largest batch and weigh them all full of water and separate even farther. That is what is called fun!

[I'll Make Mine]

Separate bullets with a comparator first and THEN separate by weight.

Weigh each case empty and separate. Then grab your largest batch and weigh them all full of water and separate even farther. That is what is called fun!

Fun has some odd definitions. It certainly sounds like the goal here is to wind up with batches of cases too small to load a magazine with, and batches of boolits too small to fill even a single small batch of cases. If you want ultimate accuracy, just use the same case over and over, without sizing, and keep your boolits uniform in size and weight (and paper patch). Haven't heard of bench rest masters shooting a whole match with a single case?

[noylj]

If, and only IF, you are doing long distance shooting will any of the many anal-retentive activities actually make any difference on target.
Of course, within reason, such activities can not hurt accuracy. The question is if they actually make a difference.
For handgun at less than 50 yds--no difference.
For rifle at less than 300 yds--no difference.
If you want to make blanket statements, back them up with actual test results.
With respect to sorting brass, I have, after well over 100 5-shot groups in each caliber, found that sorting makes no difference in accuracy out to 50 yards with MY handguns and, in most instances, for no other reason than randomness, the mixed brass has a very slightly smaller average group size. NOT statistically significant based on a T-test at 90% fiduciary limit though.

[Kydaddy]

Reloading saving money is like your wife saying how much you saved because it was in sale :)


Actually I have saved a lot of money, because I am too busy reloading to go to the bars and chase women. It’s all in how you look at it. :drinks:

[David2011]

Definitely a cse of shooting more for less for me.

After the tens of thousands of rounds I've shot in USPSA, steel plate, PPC and ICORE matches I realize that I would have seriously crimped the budget and would have endured a lot more recoil if not for casting and reloading. Over the last 8 years the cost per round has probably averaged five cents. Over the same time frame factory loads have run $0.40-$0.45 each for the rounds I shoot the most. I would have either spent a great deal more or shot a lot less. That much factory ammo would have run at least $32K so even after the cost of all of the casting and relading gear, I'm way ahead. I'm also self sufficient for everything I shoot and almost everything I own for a long time. Never got into shotgun or 7.62x39 reloading. In fact, I have two rifles in 7.62x39 that I've never shot and one was bought unissued.

The rifle rounds I reload the most are .223 and 6.5x55. Factory loads of the quality of my handloads like Hornady Premium runs a buck a round. My handloads in .223 run about $0.25 and less than 35 cents for the 6.5, using V-Max for the .223 and Nosler Ballistic TIps for the 6.5.

David

[fishin_bum]

I save LOTS of money on Ammo .223 savings is .30 to .40 cents a round. But I spent my retirement money and my kids inheritance on reloading and swaging equipment. But I think bullets will be the new GOLD Soon!

[Area Man]

5) The only handgun worth having is a 1911 in 45ACP

I'd be interested in seeing this myth debunked. I was in my late 20s when I realized there were other ACP type cartridges that weren't a 45. I wAs in my mid thirties when I learned there were non1911 45s available. I'm 40 now and it never occurred to me to actually purchase one.

Hmmm, learn something new everyday if you're lucky. Guess I'm done for the day

[Catshooter]

Area Man,

Debunking the 1911 myth is as easy as picking up any one of many other 45s and shooting it. The 1911 was cutting edge in 1911 and for many years thereafter. But that was a long time ago and technology has moved along. It's just that many shooters haven't. :)


Cat

[noylj]

I would say the 1911 is STILL Cutting edge.
Rather have a 14-45 than a hi-cap 9x19.
Since I have many and they all are very reliable, I have no complaints and haven't seen another pistol that was any better--unless you are judging based on weight. Or, you fear cocked-and-locked.

[km101]

Reloading/casting does save you money! All the time that you are at the reloading bench or casting pot is time that you will NOT be spending on "bad habits" such as drinking, gambling, racing, etc., thereby saving you all the money that you would have wasted on those pursuits! Over the years I must have saved thousands of dollars by reloading and casting! :Fire:

Besides reloading is not nearly as hard on your liver as drinking, so you save on Dr. bills and medical expenses too! :castmine: