7.54 x 54R Mosin Nagant

[Pigslayer]

I see a lot of these surplus Russian made rifles out there for cheap. They say that they are good shooters. Thought about buying one next week to play with & cast for. Any input on this beast would be helpful!!:?:

[Dschuttig]

I would suggest that you hand pick it if you can. I have seen the bores on these range from like new to shot out and rough. I find that the lyman 314299 or group buy 314299 clone work very well in these rifles. Both for bullet fit, but also for feeding and looks.
Also if you get a round reciever, there is a good chance that it will be a war time production. That's fine, if you don't mind all the rough tooling marks, as these were made as quick as they could. The older "hex" type reicevers tend to have better fit and finish.
If money isn't that big of an issue, and you just want one to have, I would get a finnish model 39. Far superior to the russian stuff, trigger and all.

[Kraschenbirn]

You might try hitting the "Search" button of the forum toolbar and entering "Mosin-Nagant". I just did and found 256 threads that, in some manner, include MNs in their content.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Have a 91 and a 38 that are both great shooters w/cast. Both want .314 dia, and mine like the lee blt. Case life is good with neck sizing. Both of mine are Russian made, and I paid less than 200.00 them. Good pieces of history. Now if I could find a deal on a Fin.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[wallenba]

I have five now. The trend with mine is that the ones made between the wars have the best finish and bores. The worst of mine is an M38 made in 1942 that slugged .314. I have a lapped mold that drops big enough to size .315. It will get 2 inch groups at fifty yards easily. I have not bothered to check it at longer ranges. Three 91/30's are.312, and one is .313. Easily dealt with. Look for one with a star stamped in the reciever, that's from the Tula factory. They tend to be the best made. I find that they are rugged and accurate rifles for the money. The simplicity of them amazes me.

[Hang Fire]

The Finns took the Russian MN receiver and made the Model 39, which is one of the most accurate battle rifles ever fielded.

[451 Pete]

I bought a 91/30 last spring. They were on sale for $80 from a chain sporting goods store locally here. That price included the sling, oil bottle, bayonette, tool kit and a couple of ammo pouch's. I went through the dozen or so rifles they had and found one made in 1939. ( The rifles they had that were made a couple of years later were pretty rough .... it looked like the Russians used a grinder to hack out the receiver's. )

After cleaning about a half a pound of cosmoline off of the rifle I was able to better see what I had bought. Everything was in good shape but the trigger was rough, had a lot of creep and broke at about 6-7 lbs. I dis-assembled the bolt, cleaned it and polished the trigger mechanism and removed almost all of the creep. There are a couple of good vidio's on U- Tube that are worth watching if you buy one of these.

After a bit of fine tuning and using the cheap military surplus ammo I have gotten 4-5 inch groups at 100 yds off of a bench. The only problem I have found so far with the rifle is finding brass for reloading. Most military surplus ammo is steel case with an odd ball size primer pocket and it is corrosive. (Make sure it gets a good cleaning after shooting this stuff. )

All in all I am very happy with the rifle and a lot of folks at the range can't believe it was bought for so little.

Hope this helps .... Pete

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned; hand pick if you can. I take a collasable .30 cal rod with extra extensions, a bore brush, #9 solvent (small bottle), and patches with me. I ask if I can clean the bore and most dealers welcome it. I clean from the breach end BTW. If they won't let me clean the bore to look at it I move on to another store.

Before cleaning I look the exterier over to make sure the stock is good, the bedding good and the sights aren't bunged up. I also open the action, pull the bolt and inspect it. The face of the bolt should show little if any corrosion/pitting from gas leakage around the primer. I also look for undue wear on the sear and cocking camming surfaces. I check the magazine interupter to make sure it is functional. Matching part numbers don't mean much for a shooter, especially if it will be "sporterized".

I inspect the end of the muzzle looking for the rifling to come to the crown without wear. I won't waste my time on a counter bored muzzle rilfe anymore as there are still plenty that aren't counter bored.

I then clean the bore/chamber if all looks well so far. I want a shiney unpitted/unfrosted bore with clean crisp rifling from the throat to the muzzle. A small bore light or flash light is helpful to have for this inspection. I also insect the chamber for corrosion, pitting and scratch marks. I look for a smooth chamber. If the rifle meets all these criteria then it's worth buying for a shooter, to me anyway.

Larry Gibson

[Pigslayer]

Thank you fellas. I just picked one up. It was $84.00 + tax. They had about twenty of them laid out on the table. This fella was a heck of a nice guy & even opened up on Sunday for me. I looked through a number of them. I checked out the rifling and it looked very strong. No pitting etc. The face of the bolt looked factory fresh. The chamber looked good. I could have gotten one made in Tula but it really didn't look that good. I just got finished running a bore brush with solvent through it then a dry patch. Again the rifling looks very strong. I may yet get another for that price. I'm going to slug the bore tonight.
I just slugged the bore & it slugged .313. Groove diameter of .302. So we're talking rifling at .0055. I'd say that was reasonable. The slug came through nice & shiny with clear lands & grooves. No striations whatsoever. I'm having a whole lot of fun by the way![smilie=w:

[Freightman]

I was at the gunshow and talking to one of my favorite wildcaters said he and his pardner had Mosin they had rebarrled to a 44 cal and the Russian case. When the weather get better I am going over to see it and might just take it to the range. Sound like fun, ask how much and he said might let me have it for $100. Hope ti works out.

[HamGunner]

http://7.62x54r.net/

Learn it all right here.

[Artful]

Careful they are addicting - and just cause you bought an inexpensive rifle doesn't mean you don't spend money on it. The cheap ammo was a come one. - Always crack your spam can's as some don't seem as rust free as advertised.

My M38
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/0612112302.jpg

Stock refinished - Custom Cheek rest made
Scout scope mount with scout scope
recoil pad
theading barrel and shortened it - cost as much as the rifle did

[Pigslayer]

[QUOTE=Artful;1499189]Careful they are addicting - and just cause you bought an inexpensive rifle doesn't mean you don't spend money on it. The cheap ammo was a come one. - Always crack your spam can's as some don't seem as rust free as advertised.

Well, I cracked the "Spam Can". Broke it down & found not one speck of rust & not one pit. Nice & clean & looking like new. I have about 10 rounds of factory ammunition . . . actually 9 rounds. I noticed that one round had a crack in the neck so I pulled the bullet & burned off the powder. These old eyes seem to see the sights just fine so I'll put her on a good steady rest & see how she groups at 50 yrds. I don't expect a lot with the surplus ammo but, we'll see. The notch in the rear sight really isn't as deep as I'd like so I'll work on that a little. The trigger has a lot of play which I can fix & also has a lot of travel before releasing the firing pin. Careful work with a file will take care of that.:coffeecom

[Pigslayer]

Careful they are addicting - and just cause you bought an inexpensive rifle doesn't mean you don't spend money on it. The cheap ammo was a come one. - Always crack your spam can's as some don't seem as rust free as advertised.






My M38
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/rowdyfisk/Misc/0612112302.jpg

Stock refinished - Custom Cheek rest made
Scout scope mount with scout scope
recoil pad
theading barrel and shortened it - cost as much as the rifle did

So . . . how does it shoot??:Fire:

[Artful]

Not bad - much quieter with can on and you can ring the 12" gong at 300 from rest all day with surplus ammo. It made a fun loud gun much more fun.

[Tom-ADC]

Love them have 3 just started loading cast for them.

[toolz568]

Finnish M39 will run a little more, they have a Sako barrels and mine shoots better than me. Easy to install a scout scope mount and scout scope. If you want a conventional scope, your looking at another $100-150 dollars for the bent bolt and drilling and tapping the scope mount. I have a S& K scout scope mount and it is a drop in and rock solid.

No matter what you get, take the time to slug your bore and find out how big it is. It's not hard and allow you to get better fitting bullets. There are a lot of loads available, 16 gr. of 2400 make an easy to shot target round.

[Four Fingers of Death]

http://7.62x54r.net/

Learn it all right here.

Thanks for the link, lot of good info there. I need to dig my Remington and identify which model it is. It is dated 1917, so it could be either.

[Pigslayer]

Well, good news! I am very pleased with my $84.00 investment. I took my Mosin to the range this AM. I started out with 25 yd target & then moved to the 50. Remember this is open sights. My first three rounds were 1" to the right of the bull. I moved the front sight to the right just a little and the next three were on the bull. I moved my target to 50 yds & shot 2", 3 shot groups with two crazy flyers. The flyers were with fmj ammo made in Bulgaria in 1952 at the "Star" manufacturing plant. I shot 8 of those & a box (20 rnds) of 150 gr. spitzer boat tail made in Serbia. All the ammo shot very well except for the two flyers. The next time out will be at 100 yds. with again SP SBT from Serbia. I really like the hooded sight!. I can't believe that I'm 59 years old with cataract surgery scheduled for next month & I shot that relic that good! I'm hoping to have my cast boolits ready for the next time out also.
Today I purchase some Accurate 5744 powder which they say was designed for the lighter cast loads. Anyone out there using it??

[Wheeler]

I always thought the Ishvesk models were better made. :) I have a M39 that is very accurate using surplus ammo, roughly 2MOA. My polish M44 shots at about 3MOA with surplus but will shoot in a vertical string with the bayonet extended. I didn't believe that rumor until I tried it out for myself.

[RonE]

I have had a couple. There are all sorts of things that you can do to make them shoot very well. There is a web site that shows how to make an adjustable trigger which helps a lot.

For about $100 these rifles are great, especially if you have a hacksaw and a drill press and aren't afraid to try things.

[Larry Gibson]

Recently picked up a spam can (440 rds) of Albanian Type 53 steel core light ball. It has nice brass cases that have been annealed at the neck and shoulder. The bullets are steel cored (red sealent/marking around the case mout) and copper jacketed, weight 149 - 140 gr and are FMJBTs. Powder sis extruded and is apretty uniform 48.3 gr. Any one have any experience shooting this ammo; accuracy?

I'm going to try to salvage the cases after shooting them by drilling off the top of the primer leaving the primer rim in the primer pocket, drilling a single flash hole and swaging them with the SP Dillon swage. I've done this with some Bulgarian cases and they are working out quite well for cast bullet loads.

Larry Gibson

[gew98]

Years ago I had a finn reworked 1921 Dragoon rifle , A Remington M91 that was flat new and never serialed , and a 1937 91/30 matching and never refinished. Oh an a 1911 date M1907 MG troops carbine ( bolt mismatch )...talk about a loud blaster ! = it beat the G33/40 and persian carbine all around !.
I since traded those mosins off years ago. A local gunshop by me advertized those rebuilt and pulled from storage M91/30's for $79.99 + tax ( 84.94 OTD). They come with an ammo pouch , complete cleaning kit and the requisite bayonet. I said what the hell and drove over there with two retired buddies. I bought a 1942 , and my buddies each bought 1938 dated 91/30's. They had about 100 of these mosins in their racks...and out of 30 or so rifles I looked at only two had less than perfect bores. With surplus yellow tipped chink heavy ball I did'nt do very well at the 200+ yard manhole cover...but my neighbor and my buddy Wes managed frequent hits. I pulled a bunch and loaded them with M62 surplus tracers and I was hitting dead center round for round after that. I tried a bunch of bulgarian 'light ball' and had to aim to the left but managed a fair amount of hits...and reloaded cases with tracers faired good but not as good as wiht the heavy ball loading.
The old retired buddies could not believe you could buy such rifles for about $85 still. For me anyhow when mini-me gets a couple more years under his belt he's got a 91/30 with a pig sticker to play with. The vast majority of the 91/30's at that shop ( KYGUNCO.COM ) in Bardstown were 42 & 43 dated. Saw a 39,40,41 dtaed examples and four 38 dated ( two of which my buddies bought ) and gobs of 42 & 43 dated.
Think I'll have to get some of those subcal adaptors so I can get the mini-me to shoot it regularly.

[Pigslayer]

Years ago I had a finn reworked 1921 Dragoon rifle , A Remington M91 that was flat new and never serialed , and a 1937 91/30 matching and never refinished. Oh an a 1911 date M1907 MG troops carbine ( bolt mismatch )...talk about a loud blaster ! = it beat the G33/40 and persian carbine all around !.
I since traded those mosins off years ago. A local gunshop by me advertized those rebuilt and pulled from storage M91/30's for $79.99 + tax ( 84.94 OTD). They come with an ammo pouch , complete cleaning kit and the requisite bayonet. I said what the hell and drove over there with two retired buddies. I bought a 1942 , and my buddies each bought 1938 dated 91/30's. They had about 100 of these mosins in their racks...and out of 30 or so rifles I looked at only two had less than perfect bores. With surplus yellow tipped chink heavy ball I did'nt do very well at the 200+ yard manhole cover...but my neighbor and my buddy Wes managed frequent hits. I pulled a bunch and loaded them with M62 surplus tracers and I was hitting dead center round for round after that. I tried a bunch of bulgarian 'light ball' and had to aim to the left but managed a fair amount of hits...and reloaded cases with tracers faired good but not as good as wiht the heavy ball loading.
The old retired buddies could not believe you could buy such rifles for about $85 still. For me anyhow when mini-me gets a couple more years under his belt he's got a 91/30 with a pig sticker to play with. The vast majority of the 91/30's at that shop ( KYGUNCO.COM ) in Bardstown were 42 & 43 dated. Saw a 39,40,41 dtaed examples and four 38 dated ( two of which my buddies bought ) and gobs of 42 & 43 dated.
Think I'll have to get some of those subcal adaptors so I can get the mini-me to shoot it regularly.
What a great post!! Thanks!:drinks:

[samcolt87]

love my mosin
-sam

[Arnie]

Lets all email Starline and see if we can get them to run 7.62x54R brass.Arnie http://www.starlinebrass.com/

[nicholst55]

I wrote to them several years ago and suggested it; they weren't interested at the time. I'll try again.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I wrote to them several years ago and suggested it; they weren't interested at the time. I'll try again.

Probably difficult to compete with the milsup stuff and Privi Partisan. PP make so much military brass are well established and sell world wide. They pretty much own the action I suppose.

Do Starline make other rifle brass like 308, 3006, etc?

[Artful]

Do Starline make other rifle brass like 308, 3006, etc?

http://www.starlinebrass.com/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=ee9179dd92a4eac1f4a10fd35899e4a9

mainly hard to find or antique rifle cases like 50-110, 50-90 Sharps, 50-70 Gov't, 45-100, 45-90, 45-70, 458 SOCOM, 38-55

[Four Fingers of Death]

http://www.starlinebrass.com/index.php?cPath=1&osCsid=ee9179dd92a4eac1f4a10fd35899e4a9

mainly hard to find or antique rifle cases like 50-110, 50-90 Sharps, 50-70 Gov't, 45-100, 45-90, 45-70, 458 SOCOM, 38-55

I though so, no sense trying to complete with the big guys. They make a great product and have a pretty profitable niche market and it keeps them out of mischief.

[Pigslayer]

You know, I think I've fallen in love with my Mosin. What a great piece of machinery. It was carved out of a piece of steel in the middle of a terrible war fought against a country with weapons superior to what the Russians had. But the Rutskys were tough, innovative & tenacious. Sure, some of these Mosins look like they were carved out of a piece of steel with a grinder . . . but you know what? These Mosins are powerful, accurate & lethal. My hat is off to those Vodka swilling fighters!

[Phat Man Mike]

we have 3 here and my brother has 9 or some Mosins. very addictive for sure! I use the M-44 in our clubs CMP vintage rifle shoot's.

[30calflash]

Recently picked up a spam can (440 rds) of Albanian Type 53 steel core light ball. It has nice brass cases that have been annealed at the neck and shoulder. The bullets are steel cored (red sealent/marking around the case mout) and copper jacketed, weight 149 - 140 gr and are FMJBTs. Powder sis extruded and is apretty uniform 48.3 gr. Any one have any experience shooting this ammo; accuracy?

I'm going to try to salvage the cases after shooting them by drilling off the top of the primer leaving the primer rim in the primer pocket, drilling a single flash hole and swaging them with the SP Dillon swage. I've done this with some Bulgarian cases and they are working out quite well for cast bullet loads.

Larry Gibson

I've shot the Albanian ammo quite a bit and it works well in my Finn M-39. Some dents here and there which aren't a problem. Had one round with the neck wrinkled and pulled that one down. The powder does seem somewhat uniform in weight at least on the ones I've pulled apart.

Let us know how the case prep deal goes. A lot of folks have had trouble getting boxer brass and this might be a viable way to go. 30cal.

[wallager57]

LOL I was going to buy one to try out also now I have 2 a 91/30 and a mod.44, along with over a thousand rds of that cheap milsurp ammo. The doggone things are more addictive than crack. Privi Partisan makes $15.00 a box ammo (150 gr sp or fmj) that shoots great, and the cases are reloadable. I'm hunting up my bullet molds and getting ready to sling some lead. I think you will love the Mosin. great websites Mosinnagant.com, and 7.62x54r.com.

[wallager57]

LOL Arnie, good luck bro, I've been pinging on Starline for years to make some 7.62X54R. Cannot figger with 17 million of em out there why someone hasn't figured out there's a market? duuuh? oh btw privi partisan is around $15.00 loaded and has boxer primed reloadable brass

[ShooterAZ]

Graf's has new Privi brass for this caliber and .312 jacketed bullets...I have a Mosin which shoots great also. The only complaint I have is the trigger pull...really bad. If the trigger was lighter/smoother this thing would shoot scary good. I am considering ordering boolit molds for this, but would not know which one to get.

[garym1a2]

Grafs has no stock today

[canyon-ghost]

I've been pinging on Starline for years to make some 7.62X54R.


Took me a while to figure out that they only make handgun brass, too! Too bad we don't have a rifle brass maker as good.

[nicholst55]

LOL Arnie, good luck bro, I've been pinging on Starline for years to make some 7.62X54R. Cannot figger with 17 million of em out there why someone hasn't figured out there's a market? duuuh? oh btw privi partisan is around $15.00 loaded and has boxer primed reloadable brass

I've suggested to Starline at least twice that they make this brass, most recently just a few weeks ago. They have 'no plans' to make any. It sure seems like someone would step up to the plate and meet the demand for affordable 7.62x54R brass!!

[Arnie]

If you search the websites on Mosins you can find hints to rework the triggers to about 2 1/2 to 3 pounds and no creep with a little spring to get rid of the slop . I have one Mosin i put a PU mount on for a modern scope and it is a tack driver . Another i did just like it is giving me fits but i think i found the problem with it .Needed bedding as the stock was putting all kinds of stress on the action .I find the 174 grain SMK .311 and the Hornady 174 .312 sold by Grafs shoot real good in these rifles . 51.5 grains of IMR 4350 works good for me . Arnie

[singleshot]

I'm interested in how the conversion of brass is going! Why can't we just use 209 primers and decrease the powder charge amount?!?

[toolz568]

My favorite load is 16gr. or 25gr of 2400. Out of boredom, I cut a cheap surpluse steel core bullet in half because they shoot like garbage. The steel core was not well centered. Go figure. I tried some 7N1 and they shoot the best, but very pricey, at about a dollar a shot. I have never found 7N14's, I heard they shoot better than 7N1's, but no data. My mosin loves the Lee 155gr. gas checked cast and to anyone that reads, this my mosins alway go to the range. They are my favorite rifles to shoot.

[Four Fingers of Death]

[QUOTE=ogotz;1575299] I cut a cheap surpluse steel core bullet in half because they shoot like garbage. The steel core was not well centered. Go figure.QUOTE]

maybe thats how they achieve a beaten zone with their MGs, lol

[1Shirt]

Right now they are the best bang for the buck on the Milsurp market, but prices are starting to climb.
1Shirt!::bigsmyl2:

[rjathon]

Well, good news! I am very pleased with my $84.00 investment. I took my Mosin to the range this AM. I started out with 25 yd target & then moved to the 50. Remember this is open sights. My first three rounds were 1" to the right of the bull. I moved the front sight to the right just a little and the next three were on the bull. I moved my target to 50 yds & shot 2", 3 shot groups with two crazy flyers. The flyers were with fmj ammo made in Bulgaria in 1952 at the "Star" manufacturing plant. I shot 8 of those & a box (20 rnds) of 150 gr. spitzer boat tail made in Serbia. All the ammo shot very well except for the two flyers. The next time out will be at 100 yds. with again SP SBT from Serbia. I really like the hooded sight!. I can't believe that I'm 59 years old with cataract surgery scheduled for next month & I shot that relic that good! I'm hoping to have my cast boolits ready for the next time out also.
Today I purchase some Accurate 5744 powder which they say was designed for the lighter cast loads. Anyone out there using it??

In the Lyman cast bullet handbook Mike Venturino highly recommends it.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm interested in how the conversion of brass is going! Why can't we just use 209 primers and decrease the powder charge amount?!?

Finished the conversion of 7.62x54R Berdan primer pockets to SR Boxer primer pockets; works great. I started a new thread on the topic with instructions.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=143855

Larry Gibson

[Yance]

Today I purchase some Accurate 5744 powder which they say was designed for the lighter cast loads. Anyone out there using it??

Skip the 5744 and pick up some SR4759. 19-20 gr with Lyman 314299. This powder was engineered by DuPont specificly for reduced loads in .30-'06 size cases. Super cast boolit powder.

Mine;s Finn M-27 VKT rebarrel.

BTW, M-39 Finns were not only built with SAKO barrels, but also VKT, Tikka, and the "B" stamped ones are Belgian, presumably FN.