Buck Shot 101 please

[speedjunkies]

Hey Guys
Back again thanks for all the great Lee Slug info. I now have some great IPSC and Hunting slug loads.

My questions today are for 00 9 Pellet Buck Shot.
I have a good 00 Buck 8 Pellet 2x4 load but need 9 pellet 3x3 load for IPSC competitions in Canada.

1. If I cut the petals of the wads.
What should I be watching for in the barrel?
Will this damage the barrel with lots of shooting?

2. A few posts talk about wrapping tape around the wad to make a flight control wad.
Does this work and is it safe?

Thanks
Sam

[UNIQUEDOT]

1. If I cut the pedals of the wads.
What should I be watching for in the barrel?

Leading.


Will this damage the barrel with lots of shooting?

No, the leading will come right out of a smoothbore with a bronze brush and hoppe's #9

[35remington]

I agree it won't be a big problem save the scrubbing effect of the bore, but buffers are out of the question unless there's some plastic wrap or some such to prevent it from grabbing the sides of the hull on the way out.

Depends upon how it's wrapped as to whether the plastic tape helps. I wonder if it's really that resistant to atmospheric resistance, and whether the wad would slide smoothly off the buckshot if it did not open. Try it and see but don't count on anything. It's safe as long as the wad still slides smoothly out of the case on exit from the hull.

FWIW, it's spelled "petals".......as in the petals of a flower. The wad most resembles those when it opens, thus the terminology and spelling. Thought you might care. Your version accelerates cars.

[Reload3006]

a lot of shot went down the barrel of a shot gun before plastic wads started being used in the 1970s ... Get a bottle of powder graphite and tumble your buckshot in it it will fly pretty good and will not lead your bore.

[RMc]

...SAMMI specs for 00B call for a nominal .33" diameter +- .015.

So 00B can be "in spec." as large as .345" and .315"

Hmm ...

.315" pellets can stack 3x3 inside a shot cup wad.


See: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=131191

[speedjunkies]

Thanks for the info.
Loaded up 4 different types of 9 pellet 00 buck loads. Tumbled in Graphite.

All with the PETALS cut off. Thanks 35Rem

Fed 12S4 wad with a Circle Fly .125 thick Nitro Card. AA hulls Crimped OK
WAA12 in a AA hull. Crimped OK
WAA12 in a STS hull. Prefect crimp.
RP12 with 2 of my homemade Nitro cards about .9 thick each.
STS hull Prefect crimp and AA hulls. Crimp was OK

Testing begins next weekend.

I also loaded up some 9 and 12 Pellet #1 buck loads that stacked really nice into the
hulls without cutting the petals off.

[seetrout]

I have a 'Do-It'? brand 'slingshot pellet' mold. It makes what I would label #0.5 on one side and 000 on the other side.

The shot is not quite perfectly round. At the ranges and targets I'm shooting at (HD & IDPA) anything to help disperse the shot is probably a bonus.

It measures an average of .305" and stacks beautifully in 3's inside my claybuster wads. NO need to cut off the petals.

I use my scrap lead (mix of stick on WW's, range mining's, unknown alloy) to make buckshot and get weight's of 7/8 oz for 9 pellets and 1 1/8 oz for 12 pellets and just use my target load data (with caution) since I'm not looking for super high commercial load velocity. I prefer a lower velocity, lower recoil loads.

Lower recoil (velocity) loads are better for competitive shooting (especially on stationary targets) because they cause less fatigue and allow for faster target reacquisition. The downside is that those loads also tend to throw tighter patterns. Not ideal for IDPA/USPSA/whatever you're shooting.

On a personal note I believe this also applies to Home Defense. Lower recoil allows for faster follow up shots, BUT makes for tighter patterns where the distances involved would favor a SUPER FAST spreading patten. #1 buck is a minimum for proper penetration on 2 legged varmints. Save your #4 shot for hunting pheasants or ducks, it has no value for HD.

Just my own personal opinion. Take it what it's worth (nothing).

What pellets are you using? Where did you get them?

Doug

[Reload3006]

I have a 'Do-It'? brand 'slingshot pellet' mold. It makes what I would label #0.5 on one side and 000 on the other side.

The shot is not quite perfectly round. At the ranges and targets I'm shooting at (HD & IDPA) anything to help disperse the shot is probably a bonus.

It measures an average of .305" and stacks beautifully in 3's inside my claybuster wads. NO need to cut off the petals.

I use my scrap lead (mix of stick on WW's, range mining's, unknown alloy) to make buckshot and get weight's of 7/8 oz for 9 pellets and 1 1/8 oz for 12 pellets and just use my target load data (with caution) since I'm not looking for super high commercial load velocity. I prefer a lower velocity, lower recoil loads.

Lower recoil (velocity) loads are better for competitive shooting (especially on stationary targets) because they cause less fatigue and allow for faster target reacquisition. The downside is that those loads also tend to throw tighter patterns. Not ideal for IDPA/USPSA/whatever you're shooting.

On a personal note I believe this also applies to Home Defense. Lower recoil allows for faster follow up shots, BUT makes for tighter patterns where the distances involved would favor a SUPER FAST spreading patten. #1 buck is a minimum for proper penetration on 2 legged varmints. Save your #4 shot for hunting pheasants or ducks, it has no value for HD.

Just my own personal opinion. Take it what it's worth (nothing).

What pellets are you using? Where did you get them?

Doug

sir i respectfully call BS. inside of 10 yards #8 bird shot will put a hole through a 2 legged varmint the size of a 3lb coffee can. I have proven it over and over and over again.

[seetrout]

sir i respectfully call BS. inside of 10 yards #8 bird shot will put a hole through a 2 legged varmint the size of a 3lb coffee can. I have proven it over and over and over again.

Please show your proof.

Have you any pics of varmints shot thusly? With the range measured? 2 legged or otherwise?

I used to think the same based on shooting 2x4's (treestands nailed into trees on family property without permission) in half with #6's across the 3.5" dimension at a range of about 4ft. But failing to kill critters at close range with a shotgun loaded with too small a shot for proper penetration has changed my thinking.

Just about a month ago My buddy and I were hunting small game and a groundhog popped up about 8 yards away (give or take a yard. He was close) and he took 2 rounds of #6 from my friend and 2 rds of #5 from me before he stopped. This was a 10lb critter NOT a 200lb assailant.

HD ranges are typically very close, I will give you 10 feet. Tops. Not 10 yds. Here is a good article on shotguns for HD.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

If I am going to actually pull the trigger on some schmuck that has convinced me that my only option is to kill him, I want him (or her) to be DEAD on the first shot. Then I'm going to shoot him (or her) again. Anybody worth shooting once is definitely worth shooting twice!

[Piedmont]

Please show your proof.

Have you any pics of varmints shot thusly? With the range measured? 2 legged or otherwise?

I used to think the same based on shooting 2x4's (treestands nailed into trees on family property without permission) in half with #6's across the 3.5" dimension at a range of about 4ft. But failing to kill critters at close range with a shotgun loaded with too small a shot for proper penetration has changed my thinking.

Just about a month ago My buddy and I were hunting small game and a groundhog popped up about 8 yards away (give or take a yard. He was close) and he took 2 rounds of #6 from my friend and 2 rds of #5 from me before he stopped. This was a 10lb critter NOT a 200lb assailant.

HD ranges are typically very close, I will give you 10 feet. Tops. Not 10 yds. Here is a good article on shotguns for HD.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

If I am going to actually pull the trigger on some schmuck that has convinced me that my only option is to kill him, I want him (or her) to be DEAD on the first shot. Then I'm going to shoot him (or her) again. Anybody worth shooting once is definitely worth shooting twice!

I shot a groundhog once at about 30 feet with 7& 1/2 shot and all he did was start cussing me verbally (making weird noises). I quickly shot him again and ended it but felt terrible, of course. Now iffn' he had only two legs and weighed over 150 pounds it probably would have blown one of those huge 3 pound coffee can sized holes through him. Maybe. Well, probably not.

BTW all of the groundhog was still there. He wasn't blown apart or anything. Maybe I missed him.

[Reload3006]

I suggest you doubters shoot your self with in 10 yards and see what happens or maybe your kids that would be good and then just maybe they will stand there cursing you. Or perhaps you will be visiting the morgue. I Dont have anything against Buck shot. use it if it makes you feel safer. But a statement that it will not penetrate a man. I call BS continue to call BS and the only way to prove it is to kill a man any volunteers? But if it will shoot through 1/2 inch plywood it will certainly shoot through a man.

here is some proof
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqcOn14TC0c&feature=relmfu

[wiljen]

Your proof doesn't work - gets a malformed video error.

[Reload3006]

Your proof doesn't work - gets a malformed video error.

try again

[seetrout]

I suggest you doubters shoot your self with in 10 yards and see what happens or maybe your kids that would be good and then just maybe they will stand there cursing you. Or perhaps you will be visiting the morgue. I Dont have anything against Buck shot. use it if it makes you feel safer. But a statement that it will not penetrate a man. I call BS continue to call BS and the only way to prove it is to kill a man any volunteers? But if it will shoot through 1/2 inch plywood it will certainly shoot through a man.

I think I'll pass on voluntarily being shot with birdshot at 100 yds. Thank you very much. I do have a friend that caught the edge of a load of 7 1/2's at a range of 10 yards on the top of his forehead while hunting grouse in Maine when he was in the Air Force. You can't see the scars because they are in the hairline. How far away was the guy Dick Cheney shot? Got it 30yds plus. Doesn't apply.

Your linked video does not say how far or show how far he was. From the camera angle he could have been as close as 3 or 4 feet. Nor does it say what choke he's using, which even at close range will have an effect on the results. My HD shotty is cylinder bore. The groundhog was shot with IC, IC and Modified (O/U).

I gotta tell you, I am convinced. Any plywood intruder is toast. I'm going to go, right now, and take the buckshot loads out of my shotty and replace them with my skeet loads because some guy on the internet said so. I suggest you do the same and replace your skeet loads with buck because some guy (me) on the internet said so.

Everybody has an opinion. They all stink right?

I said it before. Take my opinion for what it's worth which is nothing.

Now that I've successfully highjacked the OP's thread with an unrelated OPINION, I'd like to apologize and get back on topic.

Speedjunkies, Sorry I got your thread off topic.

Your 00 loads look good, but complicated and time consuming to assemble.
The #1 loads are quick and simple. Additionally 9 pellets of #1 will weigh less than 9 pellets of 00 which means less recoil, less fatigue and faster follow up.
I would suggest using them for those reasons. Unless you think somebody's going to be able to tell the size difference in the holes in the targets and call foul. Or you are shooting at a competitive level and not using the specified 00 would be unsportsmanlike.

[20nickels]

sir i respectfully call BS. inside of 10 yards #8 bird shot will put a hole through a 2 legged varmint the size of a 3lb coffee can. I have proven it over and over and over again.
:lol:

I'll be sticking to buckshot, tks.

[wiljen]

try again

That got it - video works now.

[speedjunkies]

No worries Seetrout. Some good info here.
For Home Defence loads use what ever you think is best.
I will stick with Hornady Critical Defense #00 buck.

Stuff I am loading is just for kids to shoot and 3 gun matches in Canada.
I got 5, 5 pound boxes of Hornady #00 buck and 5, 5 pound boxes of Hornady #1 buck
at a auction sale for $60. I am going to buy some molds once I figure out what load I like.

[seetrout]

OK, gotcha.

Personally I really like the number 1/number 0 size buck for the way it stacks inside an intact shotcup. Lee has the 18 pellet molds for #4, 00 and 000. The do-it slingshot mold is cheaper and has two sizes. On one side is a 9 pellet strip that comes out to being about 000. The other side is 11 pellets and they come out at 0.5 (halfway between no 1 and single aught). 9 of the smaller pellets weigh in at 7/8 oz and 12 is 1 1/8oz. I load 9 with a light charge of clays for a low recoil load that chrono's 1050fps average out of my 18.5" barrel. It's basically a light skeet load.

When I cast buck I run the mold hot and fast. I wear gloves on both hands. The mold handles even get hot after a while. There's no sprue cutter on this mold so I use my free hand to grab the fresh casting sprue as soon as it hits the catch cloth (worn out blue jeans) and push the shot sideways so they break off the sprue. If they don't pop off easy the mold is still too cold or you left them cool too long. Any that don't break off easy go back in the pot with the sprue. Sprues go back in right away, they're big and the pot would empty in a hurry if you didn't. I tried letting them cool normally and then cutting them off the sprue with dikes, but that left a sharp cut line and was a PITA.

A guy at work has the lee 00 mold. He's got a sprue cutter (nice) and he's making 18 pellets instead of 11. He also casts hot and fast so the pellets will break apart when he dumps them, but only gets about 50% so he still has to go back and cut apart a lot of pellets.

I dump them all in a plastic painters pail with a shot of graphite powder and swirl around for a few minutes and you'd swear it was bought buckshot until you looked closely at the sprue marks.

Graphite powder. I had bought one of those little hardware store 'lock lubricant' graphite tubes for lubing my powder measures. It's like 1/16th oz for about $2. Go to your local farm supply store and tell them you need "seed planter dry lubricant". I stumbled onto it at my local farm supply store....Brand is "EZ-SLIDE" Graphite powder. Powder graphite seed lubricant. One pound bottle for $4.51, sales tax included.

[x101airborne]

I have the lee 18 cav #4 and '00' buck molds. Definately have to run em hot and fast.
I use these loads with the petals intact with AA grey hulls, WAA12 wads, Win primers, and 700X powder. Out of an 870 express magnum with a primos long range choke tube (intended for steel and up to #4 buck), I can dust a corn stealin crow out to about 60 yards. All I have to do is get one pellet in em. Then they get a follow-up for good measure.
Both the #4 and the 00 get used for skunks, small hogs, or any hog up close (like kicking distance) but I dont use the tight choke with the 00. Either load is kinda light IMO, but easy to use, easy on hulls, and cheap to run a bunch out. If I remember, the 4 buck is 440 grains of lead. Absolute hammer on skunks and possums within 40 yards or so.

[Flinchrock]

OK, gotcha.

Personally I really like the number 1/number 0 size buck for the way it stacks inside an intact shotcup. Lee has the 18 pellet molds for #4, 00 and 000. The do-it slingshot mold is cheaper and has two sizes. On one side is a 9 pellet strip that comes out to being about 000. The other side is 11 pellets and they come out at 0.5 (halfway between no 1 and single aught). 9 of the smaller pellets weigh in at 7/8 oz and 12 is 1 1/8oz. I load 9 with a light charge of clays for a low recoil load that chrono's 1050fps average out of my 18.5" barrel. It's basically a light skeet load.

When I cast buck I run the mold hot and fast. I wear gloves on both hands. The mold handles even get hot after a while. There's no sprue cutter on this mold so I use my free hand to grab the fresh casting sprue as soon as it hits the catch cloth (worn out blue jeans) and push the shot sideways so they break off the sprue. If they don't pop off easy the mold is still too cold or you left them cool too long. Any that don't break off easy go back in the pot with the sprue. Sprues go back in right away, they're big and the pot would empty in a hurry if you didn't. I tried letting them cool normally and then cutting them off the sprue with dikes, but that left a sharp cut line and was a PITA.

A guy at work has the lee 00 mold. He's got a sprue cutter (nice) and he's making 18 pellets instead of 11. He also casts hot and fast so the pellets will break apart when he dumps them, but only gets about 50% so he still has to go back and cut apart a lot of pellets.

I dump them all in a plastic painters pail with a shot of graphite powder and swirl around for a few minutes and you'd swear it was bought buckshot until you looked closely at the sprue marks.

Graphite powder. I had bought one of those little hardware store 'lock lubricant' graphite tubes for lubing my powder measures. It's like 1/16th oz for about $2. Go to your local farm supply store and tell them you need "seed planter dry lubricant". I stumbled onto it at my local farm supply store....Brand is "EZ-SLIDE" Graphite powder. Powder graphite seed lubricant. One pound bottle for $4.51, sales tax included.

If you have a tumbler and tumble that shot, they WILL look like store bought.

No sprue marks.

[Gee_Wizz01]

If you have a tumbler and tumble that shot, they WILL look like store bought.

No sprue marks.

+1 on the tumbler. I have a small dual drum tumbler from Harbor Freight. I run my buckshot in the tumbler with graphite powder, and the do look like commercial buckshot. I put some in one morning and forgot about it until late that evening, and the buckshot looked like black pearls. I use the the skiesunlimited molds and have great luck with them. I have them in 00, #1 and #4 and the all work extremely well.

G

[seetrout]

Well all I have are vibratory tumblers.

Once I load em yo can't see em and once they are in whatever target you choose you prolly can't tell the difference anymore anyway.

But...If I ever get a rotating tumbler I'll be doing just that for 'commercial grade' buckshot.

Doug