could I make swaged bullets for less than 11 cents each

[Russel Nash]

Hi all,

Yes, just like the title says.

I can get .308 pull down bullets, 150 grainers for 11 cents each.

If I were to buy the stuff necessary to swage, could I get below 11 cents each.

Thanks.

[frank martinez]

Only if you don't consider your time involved and after you defray the expenses of start up BUT
you probably can swage a better than the 11 cent bullet.
Frank

[Reload3006]

it all depends on the bullet J4 jackets will cost you more than 11cents but you can make copper tubing jackets and get your lead some where Too broad a question the answer is Yes you can and no you cant.

[Utah Shooter]

Depends on what you are using for jackets. Definately not if you are buying copper jackets. If you use some type of brass you should be able too.

[Russel Nash]

yeah I saw one of BTSniper's posts or threads the other day. I think he was using the FN 5.7 brass to make a .308 projectile.

I am ASSuming that if I was starting from scratch the press would be the most expensive part of the investment.

I have an RCBS single stage press I got back in '94 or '95, but I don't know if it is built strong enough to withstand swaging.

thinking out loud continued....

It would be neat if there was a way to make the appropriated diamter'ed lead wire at home.

[alfloyd]

"It would be neat if there was a way to make the appropriated diamter'ed lead wire at home."

If you have a shop press you could make a lead wire die to make lead wire. I have done it and posted a thread on how I did it.
Here is the link to it.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=75709

Hope this helps.

Lafaun

[DukeInFlorida]

I have been saving all the 5.7X28 brass I can get. I have an order in for a set of BT Sniper's .308 dies.

Now, at the ripe old age of 60, I'll have to make a BUNCH of .308's to get the cost down to 11 cents. (cost of dies divided by number of bullets made, presuming that the 5.7 FN brass was free, and the cores are free, and my time is free)

However, my son will inherit the dies, and I expect (he's only 25) that he'll get the price way under 11 cents. By the time he gets the dies, they will be paid for at the very least.

[Reload3006]

If saving money is your only motivation to swaging. My advice to you it to run like mad. It is not worth it Depending on the way you go just to pay back your investment would take more years than you probably have life. Both Corbin and RCECO will tell you that if cost is your motivation you will be much happier just casting. If just making Lead bullets only the cost is pretty comparable. And Swaging can be actually cheaper. The walnut hill press is about 430 dollars and Richards lead swaging dies are about 156. different top punches (bullet noses) are about 35. apiece. Going BT and CH4D (ch has suspended their swage die line for a while) you can save money on press but you loose the ability to radically change your nose shape. But swaging makes a much higher quality boolit. So. Cast swage there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I can guarantee that if you get into swaging you will get into casting for at least your cores because there is just too much waste in swaging to ignore the lead bleed off. Lead hasn't gotten any cheaper.
The biggest reason for me getting into swaging is I want to be able to shoot Jacketed bullets especially in my Ruger Deerfield carbine 44 Ruger specifically warns you not to shoot lead bullets out of that gun because it clogs the gas ports. So I need Jacketed bullets only one way to make them your self Swage. Cheaper than store bought? Yes and No But as most of us can remember when BO first got elected there weren't any primers to be had there weren't any bullets to be bought there wasn't any of a lot of stuff. So if you wanted to hunt with or shoot your gun you had best be able to provide it for your self. That more than anything else got me into swaging. I know I probably will never get my money back. But I will have High quality bullets to shoot when a lot of people won't What ever choice you make is your own business and you have to be able to justify it to your self. But Cost wise there probably is no advantage.
As far as bench rest quality or long range competition shooting if you want to seriously compete with the big dogs your going to have to roll your own.

[GerryM]

Russel what do you want the bullets for? Target shooting? Hunting? or plinking?

[Russel Nash]

Zombies!

Lots-a-lots-a-Zombies!
:Fire:
:mrgreen:

[Russel Nash]

but seriously, folks...

I have that AR which is actually chambered in 7.62X39Russian.

I also have a .30-06...but since I am in Illinois which is strictly a shotgun slug for deer only state, the .30-06 doesn't see any use.


I was just thinking that if I could make ...err....swage .308 "jacketed" bullets, in theory, it would...errr....could keep both rifles fed.

[Russel Nash]

Reload3006 wrote:


Yes and No But as most of us can remember when BO first got elected there weren't any primers to be had there weren't any bullets to be bought there wasn't any of a lot of stuff.

I was at Wally World tonight. I always stop by the glass display case that contains the ammo...just to gauge prices and availabilty.

Winchester White Box 9mm in the 100 round boxes has literally doubled since he took office.

back in 2007 I was all ga-ga eyed about the Berry's plated bullets in 9mm, .40 and .45 . I was getting them right around the $72 per thousand range. That was in September/October 2007. By February 2008, they had literally doubled in price.
:shock:

I am not blaming that on Obama, since that was before he took office.

The hardest thing for me to find back then was .22LR ammo...ya, know, bulk bricks containing about 500 to 550 rounds each.

[GerryM]

Russel you can get some hard cast boolitss with gas checks for the O6.
You can drive them pretty fast with out leading, You can also use soft bullets without gas check for low velocity target shooting, Who said you need a jacket to hunt with' Lead bullets will do the same job.
Those may only cost about 3 cents I'm sure theres guys here that would help you out on cast bullets. Ive seen some really nice molds on the site.
If your swaging you can make 30 cals on empty case or tubeing. I'm sure you have read
a lot of posts on this, Those might cost you 5 cents.

[nicholst55]

Most pulled bullets that I've shot give pretty poor accuracy - especially pulled FMJ military bullets. Figure they're only good for ~2" when they're new; I figure about 4" groups once they've been pulled and reloaded - in a normally sub-MOA rifle. Some might do a little better; some a little worse. So in my view, a more accurate question might be 'can I swage a bullet capable of better than 4" groups at a comparable or lower price?'

I haven't sat down and done the math yet, but I think I can once I amortize the cost of my equipment.

[rockrat]

If you are going to plink, I would think the pulled bullets or better yet, the cast boolits would be the way to go.

Now, if you are swaging heavy 44cal or 500 S&W bullets, or even heavy 338 or 375 bullets, those things are expensive. Some might cost $.75 each, then swaging makes alot of sense, but I would think that unless you are making bullets to replace 240grsmk bullets, I would go with cast.

There is a GB going on now, for a boolits for the 7.62 x 39 , and would work fine in an '06 I would think.

My .02

[GerryM]

Im sure many of the shooters here can tell you a story about accuracy and the cast bullets.
I have a 222 that i use to shoot cast 55gr with and it did shoot really well.
Less then 3/4 inch groups at 100 yds. If you have the 10 standard twist a cast bullet in the 150gr or better might be just what your looking for.
You can reduce the charge and change to a quicker powder to reduce velocity and felt recoil. This is great way to get some cheap practice in with your rifle.
If you shoot quite abit swaging dies will pay for themselves rather quickly.

[Wolftracker]

I originally got into swaging with the idea of making it into a business. The more I looked at it, after learning how, the less likely it seemed to promise a profit and making your own is certainly not going to be cheaper. I even went to the trouble of getting the class 6, thinking I might sell some, but that takes more time commitment than I'm able to give, so I never launched the buisness end of it. I do have alot of fun making, shooting and hunting with my own creations, which, I don't mind saying, are better than anything I can buy in the store in terms of accuracy and equal in effectiveness. I also give some (at material cost, no profit) to friends and will report this on my taxes (maybe $150.00) just to be on the safe side.
I wouldn't say an 11cent swaged bullet is impossible, it probably is possible. How good will it be? Depends on what you consider to be good I guess. Just going for cheap or profit will tend to take the joy out of anything, even shooting!

[BT Sniper]

It can be done! It will take a little work on your part. Here is what I did and now make all my 308 bullets for free. Not saying it is the rout for everyone but "anything is possible"!

I started with a $138 44 cal CH die. I got good at making bullets with it then traded them for more brass to make more bullets with then traded some more. Eventually people with excess FN5.7x28 brass found me and wanted to trade for some of my custom bullets. Sure I said. Now I have 5 gallons of 30 cal jackets ready to swage. As far as lead... I have traded for that too. I do manage to get some free from the tire shops.

Worst case senerio...... I have bought 5.7 brass for 7 cents each, typical price is about 10 cents each. Lead can be bought for $1/lb. There is about 60 cores for the 30 cal per lb. So that is about 1.2 cents each. We are now up to 8.2 cents each minus the cost of the dies of course.

I now have a life time supply of 30 cal bullets that all started from a $135 investment and I'm shooting groups like this with my own bullets

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1050132.jpg

and deer like this (2nd deer I have taken with this bullet)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060233.jpg


Of course I have spent a bit more on various swage related things but it is a hobby and we can spend as little or as much as we like on our hobies. It is certainly cheaper then drinking :drinks:

There is certainly a lot to be said about shooting your own bullets vs. any of the factory bullets. Dosn't matter how well they shoot, how long they took to make or how much they cost, to me it is worth it!

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[Russel Nash]

Thanks BT and everyone else.

I always appreciate the pics.

[Wolftracker]

OOPs,
I didn't mean to imply that low cost brass jacketed bullets aren't good! I just haven't had much experience with them myself, though I've made and shot some 45's I made from 40 Smith brass in Corbin S Dies. They shot fine! I haven't come across much 5.7 brass around here and I guess I need a reducer to .305 for that. By the way, anything based on the 30-06 (.308, 270 etc.) makes a dandy 45 if you cut off the neck. Berdan primed stuff is the best, obviously, so as not to waste reloadable brass!

[Methuselah3]

Hi all,

Yes, just like the title says.

I can get .308 pull down bullets, 150 grainers for 11 cents each.

If I were to buy the stuff necessary to swage, could I get below 11 cents each.

Thanks.

This is not a pursuit for the use of bullets for target practice or benchrest shooting but I can pass along my 11 cents worth. To date I have over $2200 invested in trying to swage my own bullets. I've got a lathe with SOME tooling, some steel, and high hopes. I've made a swage press($200 for materials). Haven't made the first set of dies. If you have to buy jackets , they will cost you 11 cents alone. Lead at $1 a pound will cost you 2-3 cents per bullet not including what it takes to get it from a glob to the correct shape. Die set $400 and up.Without a lot of free stuff gathered or captured, the simple answer is no. Milspec bullets are another alternative. Keep an ey out for specials at Widener's ...
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=278|284|315 .....
for specials on bullets.

[Russel Nash]

I still haven't decided on anything yet.

still trying to surf the web again for cheap j-word bullets.

[DukeInFlorida]

As has been said (somewhere) before.........

There are two camps of swagers:

1) Plinkers - That's 90% of this crowd, in this area of the forum, including me. We're all looking for cheap bullets, and readily available materials. If Uncle Sam ever tries to stop sale of bullets to the civilian population, I am all set with 90% of what I shoot. Between casting and swaging, I have most of it covered. I'm not looking for 1" groups at 500 yards. Most of my bullets can certainly be made for less than 11 cents each. The cast ones are much less than that.

2) Bench Rest Shooters - The F Class rifle shooters are striving for PERFECTION (if it exists), and stop at near nothing to get it. Their bullets are ALWAYS 2-3-4 times more expensive than match grade shooting projectiles. The guys who swage for that category of shooting buy very expensive die sets, and buy only the best of J4 type jackets, and everything gets measured and weighed a bazillion times. Fussy, fussy, fussy.

So, let's not have any apples and oranges discussions about swaging cost. The OP (original poster) was obviously asking about plinking bullets.

Russel, if you're going to shoot just a few bullets, don't sweat the cost per, and buy commercial or surplus bullets. If the potential exists for you to shoot many thousands of .308 bullets in your lifetime, then invest in swaging tools, and go the 5.7X28 FN route. Just be careful not to spend much money on acquiring the brass.

Like BT Sniper, I did most of my acquisition of 5.7X28 FN brass by trading. Usually there was some postage involved, but I tried to keep an eye on that cost, since it would affect the net cost of the brass.

I scrounge around, and have spread the word far and wide that I am always looking for 5.7X28 FN brass. I have some buddies that come through with it from time to time. I have far less than BT Sniper has, even though I have been scrounging for two years. I don't even have a set of dies for making the bullets yet. Soon..... (I trust)

Like anything else, the more in a hurry you are for something, the more it will likely cost you.

[Reload3006]

Then there is the copper tubing option too. but you will need about an inch of tube so can you get it for less than 11cents? if you can find lead free your in business. Swaging as probably has already been said is not really that much more than casting depending on what grade of equipment you buy. IF you buy all lee stuff there is no way you can swage but if your buying MP or NOE molds Star lubrisizer or Saeco RCBS your up there with swaging. You can cast faster but you have more options swaging there is a trade off. One thing for sure is whether plinking cheap or hight quality projectiles is your goal you can get both with swaging.

[lup]

Then there is the copper tubing option too. but you will need about an inch of tube so can you get it for less than 11cents? if you can find lead free your in business. Swaging as probably has already been said is not really that much more than casting depending on what grade of equipment you buy. IF you buy all lee stuff there is no way you can swage but if your buying MP or NOE molds Star lubrisizer or Saeco RCBS your up there with swaging. You can cast faster but you have more options swaging there is a trade off. One thing for sure is whether plinking cheap or hight quality projectiles is your goal you can get both with swaging.


Type L copper tube usually sells for around 10.5 cents per inch in 10 foot lengths. You'd have to buy in serious quantity to get the price down from there or find some scrap. (100 foot coils break down to just above 9.5 cents an inch.)

It would be tough to get to your 11 cent a bullet mark since you still haven't added any lead to the bullet and you have to assume that your labor is free.

LUP

[Utah Shooter]

The OP (original poster) was obviously asking about plinking bullets.

I scrounge around, and have spread the word far and wide that I am always looking for 5.7X28 FN brass. I have some buddies that come through with it from time to time. I have far less than BT Sniper has, even though I have been scrounging for two years. I don't even have a set of dies for making the bullets yet. Soon..... (I trust)

I do not know the OP personally but... Never caught on to what was "obvious".

HUH? I tried to trade you some 5.7 brass about 6 months ago for your LC .223 (5.56) brass and you turned me down! I do not have it anymore but....???

[newcastter]

I do not know the OP personally but... Never caught on to what was "obvious".

HUH? I tried to trade you some 5.7 brass about 6 months ago for your LC .223 brass and you turned me down! I do not have it anymore but....???

We need a "like" button...

[Mountain Prepper]

As has been said (somewhere) before.........

There are two camps of swagers:

1) Plinkers - That's 90% of this crowd, in this area of the forum, including me. We're all looking for cheap bullets, and readily available materials. If Uncle Sam ever tries to stop sale of bullets to the civilian population, I am all set with 90% of what I shoot. Between casting and swaging, I have most of it covered. I'm not looking for 1" groups at 500 yards. Most of my bullets can certainly be made for less than 11 cents each. The cast ones are much less than that.

2) Bench Rest Shooters - The F Class rifle shooters are striving for PERFECTION (if it exists), and stop at near nothing to get it. Their bullets are ALWAYS 2-3-4 times more expensive than match grade shooting projectiles. The guys who swage for that category of shooting buy very expensive die sets, and buy only the best of J4 type jackets, and everything gets measured and weighed a bazillion times. Fussy, fussy, fussy.

So, let's not have any apples and oranges discussions about swaging cost. The OP (original poster) was obviously asking about plinking bullets.



You forgot two more...

3) Small businesses - many fail at this (myself included) but there are some small bullet makers out there.

4) Hopeless experimenters and bullet design for special use - I basically fit into this one now, I can make some of the most awesome frangible pistol and rifle bullets, sectional bullets for hunting, penetrators for game like hogs, special cores (like tungsten powder) and other special uses.


Russel, if you're going to shoot just a few bullets, don't sweat the cost per, and buy commercial or surplus bullets. If the potential exists for you to shoot many thousands of .308 bullets in your lifetime, then invest in swaging tools, and go the 5.7X28 FN route. Just be careful not to spend much money on acquiring the brass.


I am continuing to work on the 9mm brass into .308 jackets, I am still having issues and when I figure it out I will post it... what I did produce was not all that accurate, surplus bullets would group better - I think there is a way... I’m trying.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308jacket_9case.jpg

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_-base.jpg

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n636/MountainPrepper/Handloading/308_from_9_LTHPCTFB8S.jpg

[Russel Nash]

Thanks!

I think I found a fairly cheap at 16 cents each j-word bullet:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballistics/detail.aspx?id=140

Speer TNT bullet, 125 grains, with a hollow point, 500 count value pack.

[sargenv]

My 308 absolutely loves these bullets.. My usual load in the 308 is 45.0 of IMR 4895, Federal 100 LR primer, RP 308 brass, Speer 125 TNT.

[Russel Nash]

awesome! thanks!

I went with this Accurate A1680 powder, mainly because it is a very fine powder, like sugar, or maybe even finer than sugar.

I reload on a Dillon 650, so the powder measure gets all crunchey with long extruded powders like Varget.

[Russel Nash]

I got my Lee Dies and Dillon 650 conversion kit yesterday, Tuesday. The bullets are backordered. :cry:

from another forum I learned that the military surplus pull down bullets actually have some steel in them. I don't know if that is a bad thing or not.

I am going to call them and ask. I'd feel better if I went there in person and actually saw them stick to a magnet.

[DukeInFlorida]

A steel core inside the bullets... those are called "AP" (armor piercing) bullets. Not good for hunting, unless you are hunting engine blocks.

Do not use those on any steel plate targets.

The steel is limited to a round core in the middle of the bullet.

Some good reading on the subject here:
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/ammunition/military-ammunition-and-why-green-tip-m855-is-not-armor-piercing/