Range report on K31 with NOE 247grain Whisper bullet

[wellfedirishman]

Updated 12-27-2011 with scope results:

I acquired a nice K31 recently, with excellent bore and action, and apparently arsenal-repaired stock. Having received some PRVI brass (good quality) and Lee dies, I was set.

Given the fine weather (here in CA) I took it out for a shoot today. The primary load I wanted to test was the 247 gr NOE .311 'Whisper' bullet, plain base. I have great luck with it in a 30-30 lever gun. It looks like a big 30 cal Cruise Missile bullet.

Photo courtesy of Swede Nelson.
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/311247GrFNWhisper006.jpg

I loaded it up with a single load, 11.7 grains of Trailboss. I have had good results with that size load (11.5-12 grains) in military rifles in the past, so stuck with it. I seated the bullet with the same approximate amount out of the case as original Swiss ammo uses. These fed perfectly from the box magazine without a hitch.

Here are some loaded rounds:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/247WhisperBoolits.jpg

The Chrony reported 1090-1100 fps (just about subsonic) and the report was quiet.

Here's the rifle and range view:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/IMG_0538.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/IMG_0537.jpg

Setting the sights on the 500 meter setting, here are results I got, aiming the front sight just under the black circle. 6 shots in a tight cluster, and 4 more outside. I am pretty sure the wider shots are due to me and the leaf-style iron sights. Firing another 15 shots gave very similar results.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Img_0536.jpg

I ran a second load using a 135 grain Lee bullet with .314 base and .308 body, with the same charge of 11.7 gr Trailboss. This shot equally well but much higher and about 4 inches to the right of target (with the 500m setting), approximately 1450 fps. There was a more noticeable supersonic crack upon firing. Lowering the sight to the 200m setting got the elevation correct.

At home I adjusted the windage on the front sight, so will see if next time I can get all shots in the black, and might vary the load up and down slightly to see if accuracy improves.

The K31 is a very nice and well made rifle, I am glad I picked one up. A scope mount might be in its future.

Updated 12-27-2011 with scope results:

I took out another K31 on which I had mounted a scope with a side mount (picked up off Gunbroker). This is a walnut-stocked K31, different to the beech one pictured above. The mount is an aluminum Swiss products clamp-on mount, available at Brownells:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=6110/pid=1666/Product/SWISS-PRODUCTS-SCHMIDT-RUBIN-K31-SCOPE-MOUNT?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&mc_id=10000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c3466_a_7c100000726_d_ 100000725_d_10255

Here is the side-mounted scope (left and right hand shots). This side amount allows use of the iron sights which is nice. You could sight in the scope for a light cast load and use the irons for standard military ammo.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/K31withsidescopemount.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/Scopemountsleftside.jpg

Here are results at 50 yards. Top left target shows 3 shots almost touching. The center target has about 15 shots through it. On the right hand targets I was tweaking the scope to dial it in.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/RangeReports/K31Resultswith247grNOEand117grTrailbossScoped.jpg

This load allowed consistent ringing of the 8" swingers at 100 yards and a gong (torso size) at 200 yards, and occasionally at 300 yards with a pretty good holdover. I think I will replace the scope with an elevation-adjustment turret (like a BSA Sweet 22 or 223) for dialing in range.

The scope mount stayed rock solid without any movement. I cannot tell if it would do the same with full power military loads.

[MtGun44]

I am amazed that you can get that thing to chamber in a K31. Mine have zero throat. I
guess these must be bore riders so the long nose can sit in the bore. That seems like the
only way it could work.

Great target.

Bill

[JeffinNZ]

That's the second photo of a 311 247, subsonic, where the holes show signs of "wobbly bottom syndrome" just like the 6.5 CM.

[PatMarlin]

Jeff, what is "wobbly bottom syndrome"? Instability in flight? How can you tell from the target photo?.

It's an anomaly, specific to NZ- caused by the bite of a venomous, 6 legged Praying Mantis..:mrgreen:

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff, what is "wobbly bottom syndrome"? Instability in flight? How can you tell from the target photo?

Bill, the profile of this bullet is that the nose is long and tapered, kind of like the Swiss GP11 ammo. It feeds perfectly from the magazine.

Thanks for the comments. With some more work this might be a really nice load for ringing steel.

The boolit holes are egg shaped. The projectile is hitting with a slight yaw. My guess is there is not enough velocity for the rate of twist. The Lee 6.5mm Cruise Missile is renoun for it.

PAT: It's not specific to NZ. The bullets just rotate the opposite direction down here..........[smilie=1::drinks:

[PatMarlin]

What about swirling toilet flushes?

[daschnoz]

Jeff, what is "wobbly bottom syndrome"? Instability in flight? How can you tell from the target photo?

Bill, the profile of this bullet is that the nose is long and tapered, kind of like the Swiss GP11 ammo. It feeds perfectly from the magazine.

Thanks for the comments. With some more work this might be a really nice load for ringing steel.

Take a look at my targets.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=135979

The egg shaped "scuff" with the off-center hole is the tell-tale marker of wobble. The 50 yard Trail Boss target shows this very well.

[PatMarlin]

I'm not convinced.

Firstly, you don't know how a particular piece of paper, and the backing that it's fixed to behind is going to flex when a boolit hits it. It would seem to me if there was that much "wobble", it would not be printing the kind of groups that it is, with a round hole

I think I would want more testing with different types of target materials and backing to see actually what kind of hole is being produced, not just a smear on paper.

Just my .02 and thoughts, but I'm no "expert".

[JeffinNZ]

I am convinced. Same boolit in different rifles at similar velocities and we have all seen the 6.5 CM do the same. I really don't think that there is enough time for a boolit to tilt en route a piece of backing.

[HollowPoint]

This may be comparing apples to oranges but, in my k31 my groups at a hundred yard aren't as clustered together as they are at two hundred yards. I'm shooting long 200 grainers.

I've come to the conclusion that at one hundred yards my bullets haven't had enough time to stabilize in flight as they have at two hundred yards.

I can't really see anything out of the ordinary in the target picture that was posted. When I looked at the pic in the link, I could make out what may be a "Yaw" in the impact holes. It may just be that my eyes aren't tuned to that kind of thing.

In the case of the bullets and targets posted above, if they do in fact have a slight "Yaw" as they hit the target, moving the target back a little farther should either confirm the "Yaw" or it will give the bullets a little more time to stabilize in flight.

HollowPoint

[PatMarlin]

Interesting. I would like to have that mold.

What twist are the barrels on a K31? I never measured mine.

[45 2.1]

I am amazed that you can get that thing to chamber in a K31. Mine have zero throat. I
guess these must be bore riders so the long nose can sit in the bore. That seems like the
only way it could work. Great target. Bill

The K-31s have a long chamber neck (much more than you would expect) a somewhat convex end to it with an abrupt rifling origin. The odd thing here is that he has also listed a 0.311" diameter boolit being used. When I posted that some years ago I basically got called a liar by some well known members. One has to remember that there are quite a few 7.5 Swiss case suppliers besides the reformed 284 cases. Good job............

[swheeler]

Interesting. I would like to have that mold.

What twist are the barrels on a K31? I never measured mine.

4 groove right hand twist 1 in 10.63 inches

[wellfedirishman]

Updated with scoped results. This is a promising load and boolit.

[madsenshooter]

Updated with scoped results. This is a promising load and boolit.

Any problems with scope adjustment? I bought one of the cheaper mounts off ebay, Accu-Mount, and I run out of windage adjustment with perma center scopes. The receiver tapers, the mount doesn't. At 100 yds I can get within a couple inches before running out of adjustment. I even tried those old Bushnell rings that you can turn around to get some adjustment, but they go too far. Tempted to drill and tap for a set of windage adjustable Williams rings that I have.

[wellfedirishman]

Madsenshooter, I didn't have any windage problems, there was still room for adjustment left or right on the scope when I shot the target above.

[madsenshooter]

St Marie must be little more on the ball. I'll figure out something, it's even more obvious when I use an old non-centered reticle scope, I wind up with the reticle way off center. Hmm got a set of dovetail to weaver convertors, and an old Weaver V8 scope with external adjustments, I'll have to see if it has enough adjustment.

[twotoescharlie]

the swiss mounts from brownells will not loosen up regardless of the loads. also you can switch to another rifle with little or none adjustment. I have 2 and regularly switch from one rifle to another.

TTC

[leadman]

With 220gr cast or 240gr jacketed in my 300 Whisper I get egg shaped holes at 50 yards, less at 100 yards, and round at 200 yards. Velocity is about the same as to OP is getting.

The 240gr Sierra's shot groups slightly smaller at 200 yards than at 100 yards. The 240s are hard to find and expensive so I just started playing with the 220gr.

With the 220gr cast if I use WC680 the holes are all pretty round, if I use a fast "shotgun" powder the egg shape will show up. Might be a slower push with 680??