Fireform .357 Max from .223 Rem?

[Whistler]

I'm having insane problems finding .357 Maximum brass for my Contender.

Would it be possible to trim and then fireform .223 Remington brass to make .357 Rimless Maximum? I can get .223 cases almost for free in large quantities. I am aware of the headspace problem, but you have to start somewhere.

Another thought is to modify a .38 Special expander plug to straighten the neck of the .223, but since the parent case is slightly tapered I figured fireforming is a better option.

What say you veteran reloaders?

[cdet69]

I do not think it would work. The 357 max is a rimmed case and the 223 remington is a rimlless. The case head size is very different also.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Here are my thoughts having not tried it.

Blowing out or sizing a 22cal neck up to a 35cal neck will most likely result in split or very weak cases. It would probably be better cutting off the neck and trimming it flush. The issue then would be the fact that the case length would be in the 1.470ish range which would be way too short to headspace at the end of a 357max chamber (case length of 357max brass is usually 1.595-1.605).

I while back I did cut off some 223 cases and trim them back to 357mag length, then loaded them up as dummy rounds to see if they would work as a worst case scenario substitute to 357mag brass for my revolvers. I never fired them but it did appear that they would work if they really had to. I personally saw this as a major PITA especially considering the abundance of 38s and 357mags.

Might give it a try but I seriously doubt you will get reliable ignition, personally I would try ordering brass online.

[Iowa Fox]

If it is a T/C barrel with the forcing cone throat I dont think it will work since it is a straight wall case, nothing to keep the case from driving forward when the firing pin strikes. If it is a custom barrel like Bullberry it might work but pressures could go sky high fast with some powders. With a cast bullet you might be able to seat into the throat to hold the end of the case in the proper position and work up load slowly.

If you have access to 357 magnum brass it might be the best option to carry you over until you can manage to find some Max brass.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Just an after thought...

I wonder if there would be a way to get a small washer, O-ring or clip onto a 223 case to make it have a rim?

[Freightman]

Put in a back order with Graff they will get some in awhile, they will not charge your credit card until shipped. I wouldn't want to trust the 223 brass myself.

[shovel80]

Not sure, but, maybe you could trim them to headspace on the mouth?..You'd have to use a taper crimp die so the rim wouldn't be rolled into the normal crimp groove!..
May work??

Terry

[jsirm]

Mike Bellms site, http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121, says they sell max brass. Otherwise try to get some from the classifieds or be patient.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

cabelas has 500pcs $139.

[stubshaft]

Your extractor wouldn't work, you could change it to a rimless one but that might cost more than finding brass.

[fireball168]

Can you source 5.6x50R in Sweden?

Other than the rim thickness being a bit thinner, you will be in business.

[greywuuf]

I have fired .357 rimless in an AR, cut the chamber with a 357 mag reamer... it works, but at least at magnum length you have to inside ream the brass and it is a Pain in the rear, not sure if the case would be enough thinner to get away with it at Maximum length.. but I suspect not. be very careful if you try it.

[Whistler]

fireball168: I'm with you, that would be just the thing! My father actually has a 5.6x50R, why didn't I think of this before?

To all others, believe me when I say that I have tried to get .357 Max cases every possible way. Not even Mike Bellm could find any, he e-mailed me about it two days ago. Cabelas, Graafs etc will not send to Sweden. Costs would be through the roof.
Besides, it is always fun to try new projects and learn more about reloading/wildcatting.

[Chicken Thief]

374sekr/100

http://www.vapex.se/eshop/index.php?cPath=81_1285_1381_1475

Det var inte så tuft at finde;)

[fireball168]

fireball168: I'm with you, that would be just the thing! My father actually has a 5.6x50R, why didn't I think of this before?


That's what I get paid to do.

[Whistler]

Chicken Thief: I wouldn't purchase from Vapex even if my life was on the line. Please don't ask, I could go on all day.

fireball168: I was wrong, the one I have available is the 5.6x52R, AKA the .22 Savage. I guess the case bottom of the X52R is too wide to be sized down to .357 Max?

[rhbrink]

Sounds like a rechamber job to something in .35 caliber that you can get?

[williamwaco]

I'm having insane problems finding .357 Maximum brass for my Contender.

Would it be possible to trim and then fireform .223 Remington brass to make .357 Rimless Maximum? I can get .223 cases almost for free in large quantities. I am aware of the headspace problem, but you have to start somewhere.

Another thought is to modify a .38 Special expander plug to straighten the neck of the .223, but since the parent case is slightly tapered I figured fireforming is a better option.

What say you veteran reloaders?

I can tell you for sure this will not work unless you do it in a multi step process. e.g.
.22 -> .25,
.25 -> .28,
.28 -> .30,
.30 -> .33,
.33 -> .35

I tried making .35-55 cases from .30-30.
Using a one step process the loss ratio was about 90%. Using a three step process, ( .33, .35, .375) the loss ratio was about 30%.

Fireforming, the loss ratio was 0% on forming but about 2% cracked when resized.

Fireforming was accomplished by loading a 120 gr .30 cal bullet and firing it through the .375 bore. You wouldn't think it would work but it did. Going from .22 to .357 I suspect you would need to use the Cream of Wheat method.




.

[Chicken Thief]

You're a tough customer "Whistler" but here's another go:

http://www.triebel.de/suche2.php3?bes=&artikelnr=243524&begriff=wgr&value=PH3

Scroll down to Winchester
http://www.pilster.de/Wiederladen/HULSEN-PRVI/hulsen-prvi.html

They're cheap!
http://www.wiederladen-alzey.de/shop/Alzey_Huelsen-15-Huelsen_Remington-53.html

And here
http://www.waffen-baumann.de/product_info.php/info/p66636_remington--23202-huelsen--357-maximum-100stueck.html

Need more mate;)

[Whistler]

Funny thing there... All four of those shops have the .357 Max brass on backorder. ;)
Thanks anyway.

So... Wildcatting...?

[Chicken Thief]

For how long?

I can help you with 2 times shipping from Vapex.

But you seem to cave in pretty quickly.

[uscra112]

There's .222 Remington Rimmed brass to be had, too, if 5.6x50R can't be found. Anneal the heck out of the first half inch or so and try expanding that?

[Norbrat]

I have 600 or 700 (can't remember exactly) new Remington brass left from a batch of 1000 I purchased a couple of years ago.

It cost me about AUD$60/100 to get it, but I am willing to sell it for AUD$50/100 plus postage.

So about SEK345/100, plus postage. 2kg sea mail is about AUD$40 (SEK275) or Air Mail is about AUD$80 (SEK550). I'm not sure how many would fit in a 2kg parcel.

Send me a PM if you are interested.

[Whistler]

I don't want to offend anyone, but please stop posting links to shops or offers. I have weighed many alternatives, but everything is backordered or way too expensive. The US prices with shipping are OK, but no one has them. The exported prices with added tax are through the roof and I am not willing to pay such prices.

The subject of this thread is reforming brass to that of .357 Max. Please keep it to that.

:EDIT:
I actually bit the sour apple and called Vapex. They don't stock them, they only get them from their supplier when they have an order for it. Their supplier is backordered... So much for that.

[firefly1957]

Whistler I do something similar for .351 Winchester Self Load which is a semi rimmed case it feeds and works fine in my Model 1907. I have not tried full loads yet. The case does head space on the extractor in this use so short cases have fired fine. In your case (.357 maximum) you have nothing to extract case or hold it in place I am not sure how it will work for you heavy loads could be a problem to drive out for you. Another note is to remember that case capacity my be less as the web on the .223/5.56 case is quite thick so measure you case capacity closely and reduce your loads properly.

[bearcove]

Funny thing there... All four of those shops have the .357 Max brass on backorder. ;)
Thanks anyway.

So... Wildcatting...?

Rechamber to 35/30-30, 35 Rem, 356 Win, or 358 Bellm.

I found nothing to make 357 max from. I have thought rebarreling a Marlin to a 357 with a longer case but never found anything to form cases from. I like straight wall cases. The 357 with a 2 inch case would probably be great.

Found a 38-55 and gave up on 357 cal.

[TCLouis]

Oops had not seen the post telling us to quit providing possible sources so I deleted my post.

Good luck

[mellonhead]

I have done the trimmed 223 brass in a contender. I switched the extractor to one from a 223 and it worked good. I had no miss fires and had just about the same accuracy as maximum brass. I did not turn the necks or inside ream and had no problems loading them. I did it as an experiment, as I had thought of putting together a bolt gun in 357 Maximum Rimless. It is worth a try.

Toby

[Longwood]

I have 49 once fired 357 max for postage.

[calkar]

5.6x50r brass is still on Sellier and Bellots web site, but I dont see a price or availability.

[Whistler]

mellonhead: Interesting! I am glad to have found someone else who've tried! How did you expand the neck?

[OBXPilgrim]

This idea got my interest some time back & I thought I'd give it a qiuck whirl today to see what happened. I didn't resize my .223 brass before starting, I just deprimed a couple cases (Lee depriming die).

Then used my next larger die, a 6.5x55 die & pushed the brass neck up onto the deprime/sizing stem to expand the neck after using a Lee Universal Expanding die to flare the mouth. I noticed one of the cases looked like it was off center a bit.

My next size die on hand was a .30 caliber, actually a 7.62x39 (with .308 expander ball installed), to open it a little more. My next die size was .357/9mm, which made one much worse off center & the other split when I went too far with it - up onto the flaring part of the expander.

I managed to seat a 180gr boolit (RF - similar to a Ranch Dog shape), to the OAL length that would work in my Handi 357 mag/max, but it wouldn't chamber. I don't know if the diameter was too large - which I think it the problem - it miked at .384", or if it was because it was off center a little. Looks like I'd need to turn necks or ream to get this brass to work (PMP .223 REM brass)