Newbie Questions

[straightarrow]

My son was given a Knight Vision 50 caliber muzzle loader by a hunting friend who moved out of state. He brought it to me to figure out how to shoot. The barrel was rusted and pitted but I got it looking pretty good. I cast and reload for 38, 40 S&W and 44 mag and am used to shooting for pennies on the dollar compared to purchasing ammo in the above calibers. After looking a the price of muzzle loader gunpowder pellets and the crazy price of factory sabot rounds I would like to cast my own bullets and measure my own powder.The gun will be used for deer hunting. Can anyone suggest a reliable bullet mold (hopefully the less expensive Lee molds) and brand and amount of powder.
I normally cast from range lead but have some very soft plumbers lead if it would work better. I see on this forum talk of measuring powder by volume and am not sure what that means. Which primers to use? How many rounds can be shot before cleaning the barrel? Can I tumble lube the bullets?

[Crawdaddy]

I use this one currently:

Lee 457-450F
82 grains of Blackhorn (you must use 209 primers)
Harvester crushed rib sabot

I also used with good results

Lee 457-405F
90 grains Blackhorn 209
Harvester crushed rib sabot

If you use Blackhorn 209 you dont have to clean after evry shot.
Black powder and substitutes are measured by volume not weight. You can buy measures in any store that sells black powder.

What I do is determine what volume I want to use, weigh it, and from that point on measure by weight and not volume.

Plumbers lead should work fine. I got two mulies with soft lead this year.

[straightarrow]

Thanks. If I shoot a lead bullet in a sabot wad and the lead does not touch the barrel can I just cast them out of the range lead that I cast everything else out of?

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I help a young feller set up his Blister-Pack Knight 50 caliber many years ago with those bulk high pressure black sabots made for commercial 44 caliber jacketed pistol bullets. We substituted some red box Hornady lead SWCs for the 44 special, very lightly greased the sabots externally(you don't want to fight just loading the dang thing), and used loose fffg with a #11 cap. A Bushnell cheap 3x9 blem scope was placed theron . It came together in load development at 90 grains of Goex. Over the last ten years Anthony and his buddies have 11 straight deer kills with that load, the longest at 185 lasered yards.
I don't shoot those things liking a flint gun, But that's nearly 45-70 power applied to yound 95 pound NC deer. Cheap is feasable and good ! "

"I have a good opinion of the Knight rifles like that, never said I wanted to shoot one myself."

BvT

[samcolt87]

yes, most people use pure led for casting conicals, so it shouldnt give you any leading or trouble otherwise

[Omnivore]

Correction; Black powder is measured by weight (to verify your flask spout or other powder measure if nothing else) just like it has been for the last 500 years or so, and just like modern smokeless powder is measured by weight, although it is often dispensed by volumetric metering systems. The substitutes are measured by the volume equivalent to the number of grains of black powder you would use.
So;
110 grains of black powder weighs 110 grains, whereas "110 grains" of a substitute powder weighs something else, but occupies the same volume as 110 grains of black powder.

When you use a black powder substitute, just think substitution by volume with black powder.

It's very simple. It was a marketing ploy. It means you use the same powder measures and flask spouts for both black powder and the substitute powder loads. Simple. It also represents the only case, in the universe of guns, of direct volume substitution for some other "reference powder". It would be like seeing a load for Blue Dot that tells you to use the same volume that x grains of Unique occupies. You weigh the Unique, in real live grains (mass), but you use that same volume of Blue Dot.

Anyway; don't let people confuse you into believing that there's some undefined, and indefinable, difference between a "grain by volume" of black powder and a grain by weight of black powder. That only applies to the substitutes, simply because they were designed to be used that way.

[Bullet Caster]

Use your plumbers lead. You only want to use soft lead in a smoke pole. I don't have to worry about caps 'cause I shoot a .50 flintlock. I always use 90 grains of FFg in my flintlock under a .490 patched round ball. I am a dead shot with it. If you use patched round balls it might be advisable to get .010 patch thickness and some .015 thickness. If you start stringing shots you can tighten up your group by switching to a little thicker patch. You should lube the sabots containing the lead boolits so it will be easier to load. I use Bore Butter exclusive in my flintlock. It has never failed me. Hope this will help ya some. BC

[waksupi]

I disagree with this, BP is measured by volume. Your example does not work out as you change granulation sizes.


I help a young feller set up his Blister-Pack Knight 50 caliber many years ago with those bulk high pressure black sabots made for commercial 44 caliber jacketed pistol bullets. We substituted some red box Hornady lead SWCs for the 44 special, very lightly greased the sabots externally(you don't want to fight just loading the dang thing), and used loose fffg with a #11 cap. A Bushnell cheap 3x9 blem scope was placed theron . It came together in load development at 90 grains of Goex. Over the last ten years Anthony and his buddies have 11 straight deer kills with that load, the longest at 185 lasered yards.
I don't shoot those things liking a flint gun, But that's nearly 45-70 power applied to yound 95 pound NC deer. Cheap is feasable and good ! "

"I have a good opinion of the Knight rifles like that, never said I wanted to shoot one myself."

BvT


Correction; Black powder is measured by weight (to verify your flask spout or other powder measure if nothing else) just like it has been for the last 500 years or so, and just like modern smokeless powder is measured by weight, although it is often dispensed by volumetric metering systems. The substitutes are measured by the volume equivalent to the number of grains of black powder you would use.
So;
110 grains of black powder weighs 110 grains, whereas "110 grains" of a substitute powder weighs something else, but occupies the same volume as 110 grains of black powder.

When you use a black powder substitute, just think substitution by volume with black powder.

It's very simple. It was a marketing ploy. It means you use the same powder measures and flask spouts for both black powder and the substitute powder loads. Simple. It also represents the only case, in the universe of guns, of direct volume substitution for some other "reference powder". It would be like seeing a load for Blue Dot that tells you to use the same volume that x grains of Unique occupies. You weigh the Unique, in real live grains (mass), but you use that same volume of Blue Dot.

Anyway; don't let people confuse you into believing that there's some undefined, and indefinable, difference between a "grain by volume" of black powder and a grain by weight of black powder. That only applies to the substitutes, simply because they were designed to be used that way.

[wgr]

I disagree with this, BP is measured by volume. Your example does not work out as you change granulation sizes.

i agree black powder and subs were meant to be measured buy volume . just like they always have been

[Crawdaddy]

Yes indeed.. I guarantee Daniel Boone was not carrying around a set of scales with him[B][