OK...broke down and gave it a try.

[Bomberman]

After reading about all the fun you guys were having I thought I'd give this paper patching thing a try. I decided that my .30-30 Marlin would be the test bed. Here's what I did:

I had some 31141 boolits sitting around but didn't have any way to resize them below .309. After a little thinking, I wrapped two wraps of notebook paper around them and ran them through the sizer. When I unwrapped them, they were at .303. So I wrapped them again with with three wraps and ran them again...this time they came out at .301. I then wrapped them with two wraps of notebook paper and sized again, leaving the paper on they came out at .310.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l612/Bomberman461/Reloading/2011-12-06_20-03-32_733.jpg

So I looked over my reloading data for the powders that I had on hand and picked one that would produce the fastest speed. I loaded up five rounds with 28.0 grains of Reloader 7 and seated to the usual depth for this boolit.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l612/Bomberman461/Reloading/2011-12-06_20-23-42_23.jpg

I ran them through my Marlin just to make sure they would chamber correctly and everything worked like it was supposed to. Unfortunately, I can't get to the range for another two weeks to test them. Hopefully they will perform well and I can add another thing learned to my list of shooting knowledge...thanks to you guys.

[docone31]

If those give lousey results, extend the wrap to just above the crimp. I found my best accuracy was just above the crimp groove.
Other wise, they look good.

[pdawg_shooter]

Careful Chuck, that bit of paper is more addictive than meth. When you start shooting better groups at a higher velocity than your jacketed loads, you will wonder why you ever sent a "naked" bullet down the barrel.

[303Guy]

I have a theory that the 30-30 is the ideal cast/paper patch cartridge. I do believe a full case of slow powder like H414 (W760) under a heavy boolit will make for an excellent game load. Paper patched boolits seem to be faster and lower pressure than with j-words. I'm picking up that 1850fps is a good game velocity and that can attained with a heavy boolit.

[Nobade]

I have a theory that the 30-30 is the ideal cast/paper patch cartridge. I do believe a full case of slow powder like H414 (W760) under a heavy boolit will make for an excellent game load. Paper patched boolits seem to be faster and lower pressure than with j-words. I'm picking up that 1850fps is a good game velocity and that can attained with a heavy boolit.

Heck, 2200 fps with a 170 in a 20 inch barrel carbine is no problem, with coffee cup size groups at 200M. You can go even faster but some guns start to unlock by themselves if you go too far. I have been trying to figure out why 30-30 works so well with PP. The chamber design is just stupid - no throat, just a really long neck (like 1/8 inch longer than the case) into a sharp bevel with no taper. But it works! And usually doesn't need any filler, just fill it full of powder and let it rip. The only thing I have found to be as easy to deal with is the 45-70 - it's another you just about can't do wrong.

[A pause for the COZ]

DUDE!!! you just answered a whole slew of my questions. I have about 2000 of those bullets on hand:-P
Just a quick question. I shoot .308 jacketed and .310 cast.
What size am I looking to end up with after patching?

[leftiye]

Biggest that will chamber. How cum ya got my picture fer yer avitar?

[Bomberman]

DUDE!!! you just answered a whole slew of my questions. I have about 2000 of those bullets on hand:-P
Just a quick question. I shoot .308 jacketed and .310 cast.
What size am I looking to end up with after patching?

Obviously I'm no expert by any means but what I've picked up is size down to bore diameter and patch up to groove diameter +.001 or .002. Hopefully some of the more experienced folks will chime in with their wisdom.

[pdawg_shooter]

Size the bullet to bore diameter +.001/.0015, patch and when dry size to groove diameter +.001/.003. That is what works for me anyway.

[docone31]

Final size your .30s to .309.
They will grow to .310.
That is the size I make mine.

[geargnasher]

Micro-groove barrels might like a .311" sizer better for final sizing, they will also grow a bit more after being stored a while, especially if some sort of lube is applied to the patch.

Gear

[Bomberman]

Micro-groove barrels might like a .311" sizer better for final sizing, they will also grow a bit more after being stored a while, especially if some sort of lube is applied to the patch.

Gear

My Marlin is a 1950 vintage Model 336SC so it has the Ballard rifling. It likes .310 with cast so I assume it will do the same with patched. Only target time will tell the rest of the story.

[geargnasher]

Yes, that being the case I would agree on .310" being the ideal place to start for final size of the PP boolits.

Gear

[Bomberman]

Well it looks like I have some more work to do. Finally made it to the range today...shot 5 shots and achieved 4 minutes of barndooor accuracy at 25 yards...basically 1 hole in the target, no idea where the others went. Oh well, I like a challenge...not giving up. Stay tuned.

[geargnasher]

Work on getting your patch location consistent from the nose of the boolit to the beginning of the patch, re-evaluate your seating depth so that the patched part is pushed snugly into the throat/rifling (some resistance when the breech is locked, but not enough to de-bullet when extracting a loaded round), and maybe back off the powder charge a few grains. These are little tricks that I picked up from members here, and from authors Paul Matthews and Col. Harrison, and they have worked for me.

How did your "confetti" look when you fired the shots? Did the patches disintegrate in a cloud of fibers, small bits, or large pieces? A lot can be told from that.

Also, did you cut the patch ends at an angle and make sure the ends met evenly with no gap or overlap? That seems to be a "rule" regarding successful patching.

Gear

[Bomberman]

Work on getting your patch location consistent from the nose of the boolit to the beginning of the patch, re-evaluate your seating depth so that the patched part is pushed snugly into the throat/rifling (some resistance when the breech is locked, but not enough to de-bullet when extracting a loaded round), and maybe back off the powder charge a few grains. These are little tricks that I picked up from members here, and from authors Paul Matthews and Col. Harrison, and they have worked for me.

How did your "confetti" look when you fired the shots? Did the patches disintegrate in a cloud of fibers, small bits, or large pieces? A lot can be told from that.

Also, did you cut the patch ends at an angle and make sure the ends met evenly with no gap or overlap? That seems to be a "rule" regarding successful patching.

Gear

Gear,
Thank you for your advice...I will definitely try it. I did have it seated so as to engrave the rifling but ovbiously my patching technique was lacking...definitly need to be more consistant and wrapped to the ogive. As for confetti, I had my oldest son watching as I shot and there wasn't any. I looked around after shooting and still couldn't find even a single shred.

As for the patch, I had cut it straight...it met evenly with no space or overlap but I will try the angled ends. Again, thanks for the advice, I really do appreciate it.

[geargnasher]

Did you see any leading in the bore, particularly near the muzzle? I'm wondering if the patches either disintegrated too soon, or if they stayed on the boolits to the target? You didn't glue them to the boolits, did you? Anything that keeps the patch from coming of the boolit quickly at the muzzle can wreak havoc with accuracy.

Gear

[docone31]

If you have seen your recovered cast rounds, you will see rifleing half way between the ogive and crimp groove.
I like to set my patch further up than in your photo. I also have a little jump in the firing sequence.
These are not black powder loads here. They are smokeless. I set my loads to Saami spec. No crimp. I use the Lee FCD die.
There is also a serious consideration for a fouled bore. The paper might be cleaning the bore with each shot.
Another thing I do.
I cut my patches at 45*. These do overlap most of the way around the casting. In other words, I have a continual overlap, which gets smoothed down with the push thru sizer.
I use just a tad of auto wax. Just enough to get through the sizer die. I also use a cigarette roller with my patches soaking wet.
I also never target under 100 yds.
Keep at it. You will get it.
One day, it will be dialed in.
Oh yeah. I didn't see confetti for quite some time. One day, I saw a couple of pieces. Then I started regularly seeing it. I suspect, the bore condition had a lot to do with that.

[Nobade]

Have you tried closing the bolt on a loaded round and then extracting it? This can tell you a lot. I find having firm pressure required to close the bolt is important, with very pronounced rifling engraving into the patch. (much harder to close than normal cast boolit rounds) But it must not damage the paper. If you remove the loaded round (or a dummy for safety) and the paper is torn up or rolled over, you have a problem. I find extending the patch over the break in the ogive is the key, allowing it to chamber without damage.

Loads may be an issue too, RE7 is some mighty fast burning powder. Do you have anything slower, like 3031, 4064, 4895, Varget, etc? I found about 30 grains of any of those with some BPI filler or Cream 'O' Wheat compressed on top of it gives very good performance in my 30-30 rifles. That's a light load for 150gr. bullets and a fairly heavy one for 170s, but seems to work with both. Only the amount of filler has to change because of the difference in seating depth.