Can't get my plumbers pot tank filled.

[Ray Z]

Now what? I haven't mixed bullet metal since we moved to Tennessee from Ohio. A couple of days ago I went to get the tank filled from the plumbers pot I own. I was told that they would fill it this time, but no more. It seems that the tank doesn't have a valve in it like the tanks I have for the grill. Has anyone else had this problem and what are you doing now?

[chambers]

Yes, this can be a problem to have filled as it does not contain and OPD device. Maybe if you look around you can sweat talk them. I have several pots like this, but we fill LP so this is not an issue.

[Mooseman]

There IS a Federal Exemption for Welding gas propane bottles and forklift bottles.
I stenciled "Welding Gas" on mine and I point it out on the Signs located at propane filling stations( it is written on the big white reg signs)...I tell em it is for a Torch since there are propane cutting torchs.
They arent supposed to refuse you !

[waksupi]

Ray, just go to Walmart or somewhere with a cylinder exchange next time, get a different one. The people there usually don't know the difference.

[deepwater]

Take it to an exchange station and swap it for a nicely painted one with the current valve.

[schutzen]

If your plumbers pot is like mine, it has an entirely different valve than a "regular" 20 lb tank. You need to find a knowledgable dealer. You should be able to fill this tank under the commercial exception rule just like the fork truck tanks mentioned.

I have mine filled at the local bulk distributor. Hardware stores or the local Lowes/Home Depot usually just have some green kid filling cylinders and they are ignorant of any exceptions.

[lesharris]

I had the same problem.
Take the tank to a large bulk propane fill station.
Commercial rules will apply.
Tell them you are using it for welding or even pouring lead pipe seals on drain lines.
The new OPD valves will not work because of the way the burner units attach to the tanks.
I was told by one bulk fill station that they could order the new OPD valve that would allow the burner unit to screw onto it,but price was expensive.
New Turkey Frier much cheaper.

[Ray Z]

Thanks guys. I didn't know about the commercial rules pertaining to these tanks. I've got about 100 pounds of clean lead ready for casting. I'll probably go through that in the next couple of days. When I go back to get the tank filled again I'll remind them about this.
Ray

[Mooseman]

Here is a link...http://www.nfpa.org/itemDetail.asp?categoryID=303&itemID=19333&URL=Safety%20Information/For%20consumers/Gasoline%20&%20propane/Propane%20safety/Propane%20cylinder%20overfilling%20prevention%20de vices%20(OPD)&cookie_test=1

Quote "The 2001 edition of NFPA 58 modifiedrequirements to exempt horizontal cylinders manufactured before October 1, 1998, from requiring OPDs. Also exempt are cylinders used for industrial trucks, industrial welding and cutting gases (these cylinders must be labeled with their use)."

So Mark it Welding Gas !
I also Painted mine Red with Black lettering.

[hk33ka1]

I fill propane cylinders and am curious as to what type of tank you have and what valve is on it. Normal propane filling nozzle on the hose at the pump is a male reversed thread. There are adapters the two common are for filling forklift 33lb horizontal mount tanks, and the other is for Vehicle/RV frame mounted tanks.

Normal BBQ type and up to 100lb tanks usually all have the internal female threads (reverse thread) and this is how they are filled and how older and or industrial equipment hooks up.

Newer (late 90's and up) BBQ and other 5-40lb tanks also have the large external or male threads (normal thread) for attaching BBQs and other home owner type equipment to.

100lb and some other industrial tanks still use the same type of valves their respective tank familys have forever. In the case of 100lb they still have a valve using standard female threads similar to the valve on old 90's and back BBQ tanks

Since both styles are filled with the female threads they should both run equipment off the tanks female threads too.

Overfill Prevention Device (OPD) valves are similar to the newer valves from the 90's and up except they also include a floating device attached to a lever and valve in the tank (similar to how the tank on a toilet shuts off) so that when it is filled to 80% volume it will not accept any more propane (Law and standards are to only fill propane cyclinders to %80 capacity by volume) It is my understanding that for most tanks in the USA only ones with OPD type valve can be filled now. In Canada you can fill any that are in good shape and less than 10 years since last inspection stamp. But all new tanks 2008 and up must be built with an OPD valve.

[bravokilo]

I fill propane cylinders and am curious as to what type of tank you have and what valve is on it.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=8817

Post #6.

BK

[hk33ka1]

Well that's an interesting tank! I've never had one in believe it or not.

[bravokilo]

Well, now when you do you will know what it is for! I don't think they are very common. Don't ask me how I ended up with two. I only use one burner because the other one is pretty rusty and the threads won't let me get a tight seal. You get flames shooting out where you don't want them!! More fun than I care for!! The center hole has the same female threads as the old BBQ tanks. Anyway, now you know what they are talking about.


BK

[casterofboolits]

Yup. Gotta take mine to a bulk distriutor too.

I gues I'll have to buy a suitable turkey fryer and modify it for smelting.

Mine is the one on the right in post #6.

[Mooseman]

The Problem I discovered with the OPD valves is they have a shutoff valve built in that activates if the gas comes out too quickly in high volume. Not Good when you need a High flow of gas for a torch or weedburner,especially at subzero temps. My Mosquito Magnet came with a reset tool that screws in to get the gas flowing again on the OPD tanks.:-(
The valve in post 6 looks similar to the "quickfill" valve on larger ground mounted tanks...

[Beagler]

I fill propane cylinders and am curious as to what type of tank you have and what valve is on it. Normal propane filling nozzle on the hose at the pump is a male reversed thread. There are adapters the two common are for filling forklift 33lb horizontal mount tanks, and the other is for Vehicle/RV frame mounted tanks.

Normal BBQ type and up to 100lb tanks usually all have the internal female threads (reverse thread) and this is how they are filled and how older and or industrial equipment hooks up.

Newer (late 90's and up) BBQ and other 5-40lb tanks also have the large external or male threads (normal thread) for attaching BBQs and other home owner type equipment to.

100lb and some other industrial tanks still use the same type of valves their respective tank familys have forever. In the case of 100lb they still have a valve using standard female threads similar to the valve on old 90's and back BBQ tanks

Since both styles are filled with the female threads they should both run equipment off the tanks female threads too.

Overfill Prevention Device (OPD) valves are similar to the newer valves from the 90's and up except they also include a floating device attached to a lever and valve in the tank (similar to how the tank on a toilet shuts off) so that when it is filled to 80% volume it will not accept any more propane (Law and standards are to only fill propane cyclinders to %80 capacity by volume) It is my understanding that for most tanks in the USA only ones with OPD type valve can be filled now. In Canada you can fill any that are in good shape and less than 10 years since last inspection stamp. But all new tanks 2008 and up must be built with an OPD valve.

Arn't the external threads on the OPD's called ACME thread. I got two 40 pounders and three 30 pounders that had the old valves on them free from my Propane supplier. I got the proper OPD valves new on ebay for cheep and sand blasted the tanks, refitted them with the new valves, painted and purged them. The owner of the propane place said they looked nicer than the new ones he gets in.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Various fillers been playing this "last refill, but we got the new valve" game for years. tells you who your friends in that business are. Go to an AG store, a real one, and they will likely help you out without the bull.


This is like the new locking spouts on plastic fuel cans. Check them out at wally's. Crummy design to start with, 25% higher cost of the container. You know where this came from? Self intrested , no doubt crooked manufacturer in NY with an in with the Save the Environment folks figured out the whole US would lose 7500 gallons of fuel per year by evaporation from those older plastic cans without the new spouts. Ultimately a national requirement was enacted, and it was another
"save the tuna" success story ...........for those who profited. What a miserable replacement it is too.

No wonder the country is.............

BvT

[Bret4207]

The Problem I discovered with the OPD valves is they have a shutoff valve built in that activates if the gas comes out too quickly in high volume. Not Good when you need a High flow of gas for a torch or weedburner,especially at subzero temps. My Mosquito Magnet came with a reset tool that screws in to get the gas flowing again on the OPD tanks.:-(
The valve in post 6 looks similar to the "quickfill" valve on larger ground mounted tanks...

I had this problem with my big propane "weed burner". I found if I left the tank valve open for a few minutes prior to opening the torch valve and lighting it would equalize or something and would work.

There is a lot of mis-information out there that must be based on industry standards or old wives tales, because I can;t find anything in the law that says such and such has to be so. The place we get our 100 lbs propane tanks filled insists they HAVE to be transported upright in and open bed vehicle. I cannot find anything in our laws stating they have to be transported so.

[Ray Z]

I fill propane cylinders and am curious as to what type of tank you have and what valve is on it. Normal propane filling nozzle on the hose at the pump is a male reversed thread. There are adapters the two common are for filling forklift 33lb horizontal mount tanks, and the other is for Vehicle/RV frame mounted tanks.

Normal BBQ type and up to 100lb tanks usually all have the internal female threads (reverse thread) and this is how they are filled and how older and or industrial equipment hooks up.

Newer (late 90's and up) BBQ and other 5-40lb tanks also have the large external or male threads (normal thread) for attaching BBQs and other home owner type equipment to.

100lb and some other industrial tanks still use the same type of valves their respective tank familys have forever. In the case of 100lb they still have a valve using standard female threads similar to the valve on old 90's and back BBQ tanks

Since both styles are filled with the female threads they should both run equipment off the tanks female threads too.

Overfill Prevention Device (OPD) valves are similar to the newer valves from the 90's and up except they also include a floating device attached to a lever and valve in the tank (similar to how the tank on a toilet shuts off) so that when it is filled to 80% volume it will not accept any more propane (Law and standards are to only fill propane cyclinders to %80 capacity by volume) It is my understanding that for most tanks in the USA only ones with OPD type valve can be filled now. In Canada you can fill any that are in good shape and less than 10 years since last inspection stamp. But all new tanks 2008 and up must be built with an OPD valve.

This tank take the male reversed thread filler.

[Ray Z]

Thanks for the help guys. The next time I need my tank filled I will have the printout from the NFPA and have "welding only" printed on the tank. That should take care of the problem.

[shotman]

bret DOT has reg that anything over 90lbs has to be transported in open bed and secured
I did prove it to a local gas place and he put 80lb in it and let me leave . All the fork trucks I have used have the safety valve and it is different than the grill/frier tanks . one half turn on a fork truck and there is NO gas leak.

[hk33ka1]

I don't actually know the technical name for the outer threads on new BBQ tanks.

Most places have DOT or other regulations of some type for transporting, using and storing cylinders. Not everywhere is likely the same.

The reason they want them upright (most tank types) is that the vapour will be at the top and thus against the valve. If the tanks needs to vent (overpressure likely caused by hot weather or fire) it can only vent vapour out of the back of the valve. If say a BBQ tank is on its side there is usually liquid against the valve, if it can't vent and there is enough pressure it will rupture. If a properly working tank is upright and needs to vent it will spray gas out until it is empty or pressure is no longer a problem. If it is in a fire it should burn off until empty or heat goes away instead of exploding.

If you overfill (more than 80%/20lbs) a regular 20lb BBQ tank by 2-3 lbs on a say 85+ degree day it will usually start to leak in a couple minutes. It will leak until it is low enough to not have excess pressure, or until the filler lets that gas out. Same can happen in winter. Tank is overfilled in cold. Take it home put it in garage, and it starts to leak later when it warms up.

[Bret4207]

Boys, DOT regs don't even affect a person carrying propane until it exceeds 109 gallons! Trust me, I've looked and I'm pretty familiar with the Haz Mat regs ahving been in the enforcement end for some time. There is no DOT reg that requires anything on a consumer transporting 109 gallons of propane or less and to give you an idea of how much 109 gallons of propane is, consider the size of a 55 gallon drum- gallons are gallons guys. None of us are transporting 109 gallons of anything.

If there is actual law stating how a 100 lbs tanks is required to be transported, I've not found it yet and no one I've spoken to who claims to "know the law" has been able to show it to me. Now, there may be industry practices that say such and such must be one, but a good deal of the urban/rural legend surrounding this stuff is just that- legend.

Shotman, could you please provide the section you used to get the guy to let you go?

I had a similar "discussion" with a lady where I pick up my oxy acetylene. She insisted I had to transport my tank with the cap on and up right. I asked her why, she of course said, "It's the law." Well, no, it isn't "the law" at all. Trying to apply DOT Haz Mat Regs to a consumer level quantity simply doesn't work, you are not "in the book" as the saying in DOT training goes. Is it smart to transport tanks with out the cap on? No, but I couldn't find the cap at home and I wasn't about to pay $55.00 to the company for another cap. So I tied it down and was careful and I lived. No laws were broken. In her case she couldn't differentiate between storage rules for her business combined with rural legend and reality. Really got her po'd when I asked her to SHOW ME where it said it was illegal. She's a former teacher and considers herself "oh, so bright!" anyway, so that just added to my pleasure. She wanted the acetylene transported upright because when you lay them down you have to give them some time to re-settle after you stand them up after using them. That still doesn't make it law.

[hk33ka1]

I should have clarrified by "Most places have DOT or other regulations of some type " I didnt mean any one state or country for that matter. In some you have to have the plastic cap on the propane tank (to keep dirt out of threads) whenever there isn't a line in it.

[Bret4207]

Okay, but WHAT LAW COVERS THIS? And just where is it written? I want to see the law is all I'm saying. I'm perfectly willing to abide by the law, but I strongly object to people making the law up as they go! We had an example of this at our local Walmart where they had a sign saying that NYS law prevented them from selling any ammo tat would fit a handgun to anyone that didn't have a permit. Good ol' Dano67 told them that was bull and wanted to see the law. Long story short, it was Walmart policy, not the law and IIRC they got in more trouble elsewhere over the same thing later on, it made the papers.

Like I said, I'll follow the law, but I'm not much on this "make it up as you go" business.

[hk33ka1]

I don't believe these apply where you live so I wouldn't worry about it. I understand your concern for made up laws and policies too. This isn't the case.