Semi-Wadcutters In A Lever Gun

[Jason30-30]

I Bought A Marlin 1894 Cowboy In 44 Magnum Yesterday I Glanced Thru The Instructions And It Said NOT To Use SWC. It Was Kind Of Dissapointed Because I Wanted To Get The Lyman 429421. The Only Problem I Would See Is Cycling Issue Because Of The Sharp Edge. Does Anyone Use SWC In A Levergun?

[felix]

Depends upon several factors. Guns can be modified to handle most any boolit style, but it is always best to use a RNFP as the principal boolit for serious work. Longer bolt guns typically do not need much modification, if any. ... felix

[btroj]

I have used them in a couple. My 357 mates them. They just don't shoot well at all, cycling is fine. My Marlin 45 Colt does fine with the,. I don't use many because I have other, better bullets.

Winchester is probably just trying to make sure you don't have cycling problems. I would try them and see how they work.

[EDK]

While you can have feeding troubles with a semi wadcutter, a lot of people don't. My MIHEC clone of 429421 doesn't feed as well as the MMA10MM group buy version in my MARLIN Cowboys. 429244 feeds pretty decently also. The various round nose/flat point boolits usually feed a lot better than semi wadcutters, BUT you can have trouble with them. You can do some tinkering with over all length and crimp to improve feeding in your rifle also. I want to do some experimenting with full wadcutters in the 44...the 357 will feed them pretty reliably.

It's a d*** poor day you can't learn something new on the forums!

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[JJC]

I use the 429421 in my 1894 with out a hitch.

[Heavy lead]

The 503 and 429421 work great in the Marline 1894 and in the Winchester 94, the RCBS270SAA works great in the Winchester 94, the 358429 shoots great in the Marlin 1894, but won't cycle without a hitch going into the chamber, it needs a round flat.
I think it just depends.

[Mk42gunner]

My Lyman 452424 feeds and shoots just as well as a RNFP in my 1894CB in .45 Colt. However, my 94 Winchester in .357 will feed SWC's, but you can feel a hitch while chambering. I think Marlin was just taking the easy way out on the instructions, some guns will handle them, some won't.

RObert

[stubshaft]

When I bought mine in the 70's there was no such warning. I use the 429421 and don't have any problems.

[Lonegun1894]

My Winchester 94 .45 Colt wont feed 200gr SWC no matter how long i load them, but my Rossi 92 .45 colt will take the same loads the Winchester jams up on and feeds em very smoothly. Other than that, they both handle all other loads I usually load for them, and i dont see it as a disadvantage since i only loaded those SWCs once to see how accurate they would be. I usually load 250-300grs for both.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jason: If you chamfer the mouth of the chamber like I have shown here a dozen times, the gun will feed SWC's just fine. This is a simple mod and it works.

Randy

[HollowPoint]

My M92 will only cycle semi-wad-cutters if I apply a slight taper crimp; otherwise they'll jamb up every time.

Oddly enough, the same thing happens with round nose bullets and the longer hollow points I use. I think that the slight taper crimp keeps the edge of the case-mouth from being stopped by the the bottom edge of the chamber.

I can see why W.R.Buchanan's suggestion about chamfering the mouth of the chamber may be a solution.

HollowPoint

[longbow]

Some say they feed fine some say they don't. I am one of the latter.

I got an 1894 Marlin about 25 years ago and the only mould I could find at the time was the Lyman 429421. Well it sort of fed sometimes but accuracy was poor from my gun and it jammed a lot.

After doing some research I found that the 429421 exceeds the OAL for .44 mag factory rounds and certainly exceeded the acceptable OAL for my gun. Seating to crimp over the front driving band helped feeding some but accuracy was still poor.

So, I went round/flat and had good feeding and decent accuracy.

Recently I wound up with a Mihec H&G #503 which I really wanted to shoot in the Marlin but it had similar problems to the 429421 so I filed the cartridge stop back to allow longer OAL (a simple job actually) and filed the top of the carrier to lower the incoming round which tended to hang up on the shoulder of the SWC. My incoming round was so high I don't think just chamfering the chamber mouth would have solved it though that is a good idea.

Now it feeds the longer OAL SWC's well and they don't hang up on the shoulder.

I also found the barrel had Marlinitis (tight spots under the dovetails) so I lapped those out and now I get good accuracy along with good feeding and no leading. It was work but it was worth it.

Some guns seem to be okay with SWC's and some not. I have to guess it is manufacturing tolerances. All you can do is try and find out. If it is a problem, there are solutions. The simplest is to use round/flat boolits but if you want to shoot SWC's it can be done. My gun now feeds and shoots the H&G #503 better than any other design.

Longbow

[uscra112]

My first foray into CB was with SWC in a Model 336, caliber .35 Remington, with the Microgroove barl.

I was too dumb and ignorant then to know that there could even BE a problem, so of course I never had one. Shot I dunno how many - maybe 1000, before I moved on.

I did find that "hard cast" would not shoot well with light loads - it needed a 1700fps load of XMP5744 before they shot with any accuracy. Then they would do 2 or 3 MOA off sandbags.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have found that the SWCs often work in the 38Special case or the 44Special case (not in the same rifle of course, lol), butttttttttttttttt, it is not something that can be relied on.

RNFPs will work a treat in all of them. Thry and borrow some boolits first. The 429421 is worth buying for ther handguns alone, but if you want to get by with one mould, I don't reckon it would be a good choice.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm about to set out on a test series with my Win 92 (Rising Sun Model) in 44 Magnum concerning the utility of SWC boolits (Lymans #429421 and #429244). I already see an overall length issue for feeding, and have some ideas on boolit support for castings seated to a depth that disables use of crimp grooves. Once I get that project under way and get some results, I'll post the damages and list the casualties. A nice 240 grain-class round flatnose with gas check is the obvious answer, but simplicity of that sort lacks the typical adherence to stubbornness and contrary nature that exemplify much of my hobby work.

[Mk42gunner]

....simplicity of that sort lacks the typical adherence to stubbornness and contrary nature that exemplify much of my hobby work.

Al, that sounds like most of my projects, gun related or otherwise.

It is a wonder that any lever action feeds a straight walled cartridge, SWC or not. Think about the original factory loads for a minute. They were all pretty much RNFP and bottlenecked, be it ever so slight.

It is much easier and smoother to put a tapered pin in a larger hole, than a flat ended pin of the same diameter.

Mike Venturino made that point in his writing, much more eloquently than I did; IIRC it was in Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West.

Robert

[fecmech]

I guess I have just plain been lucky. I own 3 levers, 2 Rossi 92's and a Winnie 94 in .357. All feed 358429 just fine. The 92's need to be taper crimped on the front drive band due to oal restrictions, the 94 will feed crimped in the groove. That said they are all taper crimped to the oal that works in my GP 100 and they all feed well at that oal. Also surprisingly they all do their best magnum accuracy with a max load of 820 or 296 behind the 358429! The 94 will feed the H&G #50 wadcutter crimped in the middle lube groove in 38 cases.

[EMC45]

Tried the LEe 240gr. SWC in my 1894 and I had to disassemble my gun to unload it. Tried some Lyman 429-421s and voila! Perfection.

[gundownunder]

Like somebody already said, manufacturers are trying to stop buyers from whining about feeding issues.
Some guns will feed them and some won't. My Marlin cowboy .357 feeds SWC bullets in both 357 and 38spl brass like they were made for it.
If you try magnum brass and your gun isn't happy you could also try Elmer Keith type loads in 38, or 44spl brass, or just trim Mag brass back a few thou at a time till all the feeding issues go away.

[44 flattop]

Out of my four .44 Marlins, only one will hang occasionally with SWC's. The other three are fine.

44

[runfiverun]

it's in the timing of the gun.
my 44 rossi will feed swc's in special cases, and the 429421 will feed also [after i modified the stop on the lifter sligtly]
my 357 won't feed them no way no how and it balks at even feeding rnfp's in 38 cases, fine with me i got lot's of 357 cases.
my 45 colt rifles and carbine will feed the 454424 if loaded like a swc and crimped over the front drive band. but they all wll feed the 452664 seated long to the bottom of the crimp groove well over the .610 length.
my 94 will feed the 454424 if seated in min length cases at the crimp groove.
and my browning 44 mag will feed anything as long as it is under 1.610, and the 94 needed nothing to feed the 429421 at full length.
so it's a try and see thing some will pick them up and place them in-line with the chamber better some allow the case to cam over better on the feed rails and some wanna hit the feed ramp on the way up.
it's just finding what is impeding the cartridge from feeding then either modifying the cartridge or the gun.

[Ziptar]

The 270-SAA works perfectly in My Marlin 1894, just as well as RFs.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Part of the reason why these guns have feeding problems with SWC type boolits is the sharp chamber mouth. However there is another little issue that really exaserbates this problem and that is the area right behind the barrel threads that is open.

This area allows the nose of the cartridge to be higher than it should be as it is pushed forward towards the chamber. IE: the bullet is not in line with the chamber , it is significantly above it. The feed cycle depends on the nose of the bullet to guide the cartridge into the chamber instead of being lined up in the first place. This is why Chamferring the chamber mouth works for most of the guns.

This area at the top of the receiver is a fact of life as there has to be some dead area for the tap that makes the threads to work. As a result the hole that is drilled into the receiver prior to threading must be a little deeper than the threads.. Even with a bottoming tap you can never get all the way to the bottom of the hole, there is always a little bit that doesn't get threaded.

Thus the void in the top of the receiver.

I have actually looked at filling that area with some Devcon SS Filled Epoxy Filler. The only reason I haven't is because I have intentions of removing this barrel one day and the Devcon would probably not allow that. It is certainly up to the job.

A picture of a stuck round and we could tell you exactly what is happening.

Randy

[6pt-sika]

I had Marlin 1894CB's in both 357 , 44-40 and 44 MAG and I fired SWC's in all three with good results and no feeding issues .

I used the RCBS 38-158 SWC GC in the 357 as well as the Lyman 215 grain GC SWC . Also used them in the 1894CP .

Fired the Lyman 429215 , RCBS 44-225 SWC GC , RCBS 44-240 SWC GC and the Lyman 429244 in the 44-40 in 1894CB and 1894CCL with fine results .

In the 44 MAG I fired the bullets named in the 44-40 as well as the Lyman 42965o and RCBS 44-300SWC GC and they all fed okay and shoot alright .

I have Marlin 444's set up for hunting as we speak with the Lyman 429244 , Lyman 429244 HP and the Lyman 429650 . All shoot within an 1 1/2" for 3 shots at 100 yards .

[Ed in North Texas]

My Marlin '94 from the early 70s has never had a problem with 429244. Haven't tried a SWC in the .357 because I have far too many .38 Spec +P rounds to get rid of.

Ed