Is it possible to smith one gun to shoot as well as another?

[Whiterabbit]

The question I'm gonna ask is how to make my BFR shoot like a S&W x-frame. Here are the details:

Here's the deal. I love my BFR because of the grip position and the single action feel. Pulling back the hammer is a joy. I got to shoot an 8" and 12" smith X frame in the same caliber and was happier with the BFR. Then this happened:

Was at the range for rifle and just plinking away with the BFR at 25 yards off hand waiting for the rifle barrel to cool. Wasting time and wasting lead. A guy I see at the range regularly just bought himself a 10" S&W x-frame in the same caliber and let me try a couple of my loads in it. Bottom line, MY loads in MY gun shot groups 6" larger at 25 yards compared to that 10" S&W. That is embarrassing! Same shooter (me), exact same loads, same bullet, same powder charge (two different loads, H110 load and AA#9 load), same batch, everything the same. Only 5 rounds each through the S&W, first time I shot it, iron sights, and blew away the BFR performance.

BUT. I hate the hammer on the smith, I like the grip feel but not the hand location. The lack of muzzle flip was impressive. Even the 12" S&W flips. Not the 10. But most of all, it was the INSTANT accuracy that just blew me away.

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I want my BFR to shoot like that. But I am not qualified to judge what needs to be done to make the transition and need advice. The purpose of the advice is enable me to evaluate whether I SHOULD have the work done or not. Because I don't want to trade it for the smith, but I don't want to invest $2000 into this firearm either.

Here is the plan at a minimum:

-My rings suck. My local shop did not have warne rings in "low", only medium. So I will be replacing the red dot rings.

-grips. I do not like the existing BFR grips, though I prefer the single action position (high). I was not convinced the factory Pau Ferro grips were worth the money, but I'm changing my mind after shooting the smith. Will probably buy a set to try them. I have very long hands. (9-9.5" long)

-Trigger job. The weight seems OK but could be smoother. Must eliminate creep.

-? I'm not sure what else I can do?

If it will help, I can probably meet the regular at the range again. He's shooting 460 basically every weekend and I go often as well. So if it will help to get my hands on that 10"er at the range again, it can be arranged.

Part of me wants to have that great muzzle break on the smith grafted onto the BFR. Far less fatiguing. But mostly, I just want it to shoot naturally as well as that smith.

If you made it this far, thank you so much for reading.

[sqlbullet]

... MY gun shot groups 6" larger at 25 yards ...

... Only 5 rounds each through the S&W, first time I shot it, iron sights ...

...My rings suck. My local shop did not have warne rings in "low", only medium. So I will be replacing the red dot rings...


This is the first clue for me.

Take the red-dot off the BFR and shoot it with the iron sights same as the smith. I would suspect the sighting mechanism first.

And, 6" at 25 yards is not a great group. 6" larger, as you state, really make me thing something (red dot zero) is changing from shot to shot.

[subsonic]

It depends on what is wrong, but generally yes - pending desire and funding. It may not be economically feasible, but it is possible.

It may just be that the load works better in that gun than yours.

Time to diagnose the issue by experimentation.

[Whiterabbit]

maybe 6" was hyperbole. Maybe more like 5" but I agree, attrocious. And the smith was really that good. I've been blaming the shooter all this time, till I put down the groups with the smith.

To give you an example of the experimentation, I've tried loads of AA#9 in the BFR from 20 grains to 27 grains. Most folks I talk to don't experiment with that much spread (nearly 30 percent). 24 shot the best, and that's what I was shooting that day. Unless you were suggesting maybe the bullet was simply what might be no good, rather than the load?

[Love Life]

How long have you had the BFR?

[Whiterabbit]

About 9 months about 1500-ish rounds.

[Love Life]

I would experiment with different boolits and powders before any heavy smithing is done. Also it very well may be the optic. To echo another post I would take the optic off and try it from a rested position with irons. Unless you have already done that...

How do you like the 460? It seems like an interesting round to me.

[subsonic]

This is what I would do (have done in the past) and it is cheap.

Clean the bore an chambers really well using chore-boy on a brush followed by solvent and patches. Measure your cylinder throats and slug the bore, paying close attention to the area where the barrel threads into the frame.

Report back to us with the dimensions.

The only real variables you're dealing with are throat and bore dimensions, rifling twist, shape and depth, forcing cone condition, and alignment from the chamber to the bore.

Some of those things are easier to fix than others. You might compare your pal's S&W and see what's different.

[Whiterabbit]

How do you measure timing? my eyes wouldn't catch a chamber that is .001 off.

[sqlbullet]

I would worry about timing and smithing after I had verified without the red-dot. The BFR is a well made gun with an excellent reputation. It should be putting up 1" groups or better at 25 yards from a rest with a decent load.

If you aren't getting that the first thing to suspect is going to be the red-dot sight.

[44man]

The only thing I have needed to do with a BFR is to remove any creep and I will put an over power hammer spring in. I have 3 and between friends there are 6 more. Dimensions on all have been perfect.
I don't know what caliber you are shooting, I take it that it is a .460. I have no idea what to load for that one.
HOWEVER, I don't think the same loads work for both it and the S&W. The S&W has a progressive twist rate if I remember and the BFR is 1 in 20".
I have to go out on a limb and say the loads are not right for the BFR because they will shoot side by side with a S&W.
Watch the base on the BFR, they darn sure can get loose. They just won't stay tight if you just tighten by hand. Use red Loc-Tite and when all are in tight, put torque on the screwdriver and tap the handle with a small hammer once for each screw.
If the scope is not sliding in the rings, they are OK.
The BFR might want a heavier boolit or a different one.
I would spend money finding what the gun likes before spending a dime on the gun.

[subsonic]

How do you measure timing? my eyes wouldn't catch a chamber that is .001 off.

Start with the simple stuff. Measuring, comparing, ruling out simple and cheap stuff first unless there is something that is obviously wrong. If something major is off, no load will shoot well.

Also, the others are right, try it with the iron sights and see if things improve if you haven't tried that already. Try it with factory ammo or even just load some with 300gr xtps. You have to cut down and eliminate as many variables as possible.

What load are you shooting now? Give us as much info as possible:
Case
Xs fired
Trimmed to
Good neck tension?
Dies used
Powder
Charge
Primer
Boolit
Size
Alloy
Hardness (if you can measure it)
Lube
Gas check?

I you have fired it 1500 times, you may have forcing cone erosion?

[trench]

depends upon the guns, quite a bit. Some are poor, some are superlative, most are in the middle. no matter WHAT you do, you aiint making a poor one into a superlative one. I'ts got too many dimensions that are out of spec. Good groups, slowfire, 2 handed, no brace, are 1.5" or less at 25 yds, guy. 6" is combat rapidfire, with an autoloader, at least.

[44man]

I have seen no cone erosion on any yet after many thousands of rounds. If I clean the cones, they actually still shine and so far no sandblasting from powder either.
The .460 might be harsh but not with just 1500 rounds.
Now the super tight, expensive revolver I worked on had the throats worn oblong, the cone and a portion of the rifling worn on one side. Fancy line boring and out of line chambers! Around 300 jacketed bullets did it.

[Whitworth]

Sounds to me like you are not finished developing loads. I am sure the BFR can do a lot better than what you are currently experiencing.