Knife Making

[Dorado]

I know there are a lot of threads on this. but I didn't see one that answered my question. Ok, so I'm planning on making a knife, I'm thinking of doing a beavertail design for the blade. How well do you think that design is for actual hunting use? I'm only going to make the blade up to 6-7 inches.

[gnoahhh]

I used long blades like that 40 years ago when I didn't know better. Now my blades run around 3", on both fixed blades and folders. Big knives look cool on the belt and impress the heck out of adolescents. I've even gutted deer with just a Swiss Army knife. Quality of the blade steel and sharpness are way more important than length. Shape of the blade doesn't matter a heckuva lot either, but we all have our favorites.

[EdS]

Dorado: There are many blade designs that will work in hunting situations. Some are better suited for one list of cutting chores, while others are better for a different set of chores. Many experienced hunters, myself included, prefer a drop-point blade design for field dressing game. The same blade will do a decent job of skinning. If you wanted a specialized blade just for skinning, to be kept at camp or home, you could select one with more curve up near the point. I hope this helps. Ed

[10 ga]

I have several beaver tail design knives. They are great for skinning, I'm a trapper and skin a lot. If you sharpen them all the way around remember they will cut on the back too, you only have to stop to sharpen half as often that way, use care or you will skin yourself, lol. Actually one of my favorite designs is the ulu. They are less hand fatiguing and great for large cutting and skinning tasks. My $.02. 10 ga

[Dorado]

I have several beaver tail design knives. They are great for skinning, I'm a trapper and skin a lot. If you sharpen them all the way around remember they will cut on the back too, you only have to stop to sharpen half as often that way, use care or you will skin yourself, lol. Actually one of my favorite designs is the ulu. They are less hand fatiguing and great for large cutting and skinning tasks. My $.02. 10 ga

Thanks for the info 10 ga. I've been wanting an "old west" knife and I liked the looks of it. I just didn't know how functional it'd be. I was going to modify the design a little and give it a slightly rounder head that still comes to a point. What other designs should I look at before I start?

[Spector]

I got a beaver tail in a trade and used it for throwing in NMLRA competitions at Friendship, IN.

It was short wide and thick. It never seemed of much use to me as anything but a throwing knife. I prefered a modified ''Dadley'' or ''Green River'' style witth a false edge that I first made. It threw better and seemed to be a lot more useful in the woods as well.

Too much knife is never a good thing from my experience........Mike

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`ve made knives for 40+ years of about any shape I could dream up for hunting. So what knife did I use on my last 7 pt. whitetail - a Victorinox 2 blade pocket knife that a sales rep gave me 10 years ago!Robert

[Dorado]

Spector, What modifications did you do to the Dadley style? I was also considering a Dadley with a slightly swept back blade.
and Hardcast, I've skinned more than my share with a pocket knife. I'm just wanting something different than what is in stores. And if I make it myself then I get the satisfaction of saying that My hands did this, not some damn machine in some factory in a place that no one's heard of.

[x101airborne]

Pull up a picture of a Buck Caper. The finest knife I have ever used for game cleaning. Even now I love them so much I gave one to my brother-in-law, my oldest son, my wife, and I have one new in the box for my youngest son when he becomes of age. 3 inch blade, large handle, excellent steel. I have used mine on everything from rattlesnakes to caribou and I have never felt the need for more knife.

[Lefty SRH]

smaller knives like others have mentioned are VERY handy and definately big enough to dress and skin a deer. Personally my favorite is the last one I made and it may be 3 1/4" blade. I made it out of A-2 tool steel.

[JJC]

What ever you decide on have a back up or two. I broke a RO Easler knife this year cutting up an elk in the field. The knife broke at about the widest part, about two inches up on a three inch blade. Thinking it was a defect somewhere I was using it but not beating on it.

[Bob Krack]

Dorado,

I am a kinda old cantankerous fart but I have never needed a knife with a blade longer than 2 inches or so on animals Mule deer or smaller.

I use the knife only to split the skin and to sever the skin and attachments that Fish and Game require for male/female identification.

I slice the skin open and then use my hand to separate the skin from the other structures.

I bet most would like a larger knife and I actually DO prefer a slightly longer knife but I have never utilized the length of over a couple of inches or so.

I have a 3-1/2 inch bladed flint knife (from Boerrancher) that I would not hesitate to use to skin AND butcher a large Mule deer (300 pounds or more).

Bob

[kmag]

Bob,
I knew a hunter that carried a single edge Pal razor blade in his wallet and that blade along with a small dull belt ax was all he needed to dress a deer.

[Dorado]

Well, I'm looking for more than just dressing a deer. I have a Gerber knife that holds a great edge, and makes quick work of deer, hog, rabbits, anything I throw at it. I'm just wanting a blade that isn't seen that often, that works well, I don't really care much about the length until I have to quarter a deer or elk.

[Bob Krack]

Bob,
I knew a hunter that carried a single edge Pal razor blade in his wallet and that blade along with a small dull belt ax was all he needed to dress a deer.
I ALMOST posted that all I need is a single edged razor blade (true) but din't want to get out my Nomex.

Thank you Sir,

Bob

[btroj]

I have grown to appreciate a smaller bladed knife for cleaning a deer. Sharp is way more important than size. I am using a little Gerver I got free many years ago when I bought a new pair of boots from Danner. That little folder does a fine job. Blade isn't over 2.5 inches long.

[OneBagNomad]

I really don't see any advantage to a blade longer than 3-4 inches for the purposes of field-dressing game. Butchering, sure, but not field-dressing.

[Tim357]

Funny you all mention smallish blades for hunting. In 1986 Ross Seyfried did a piece for G&A about small hunting blades. Made sense then, makes sense today. I actually bought a couple of the small knives he mentioned, and by God, they worked as advertised!

[PatMarlin]

Here's the last one I bought on sale about 5 years ago. Over $120 now. Think they call it a cross lock, and I paid about $68 for it. Barely used it so far, but looked to be a handy folder.

http://www.patmarlins.com/buckfolder.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Here's a neat small blade out of print SCHRADE OLD TIMER called a "Little Finger" I picked up at a gunshow years ago-

http://www.patmarlins.com/littlefingershrade.jpg

[MT Gianni]

I have had that Little finger for 33+ years now and really like it.

[Dorado]

I have a small Gerber with a 3" blade that I normally use. But I'm looking for a skinning/butchering knife. I don't really have one, I've been using some of my kitchen knives. But they don't work to well with full deer and hog.

[Reload3006]

I bought that smallest Case fixed blade knife. When I bought it I thought that would be a great knife to have in my tackle box for fishing. But Man it has become my favorite knife for about everything. I have cleaned more fish with it than I care to remember. It has skinned and field dressed more deer than I want to think about. Yep give me a little blade a lot more user friendly.

[Razor]

Yup, like most the fellers said...anything over 3 or 4 " ain't needed...
My favorite is a BUCK 110 folder...
Neat thing about them, is you can open them one-handed....
skint (& butchered) MANY deer, several hogs, goats, rabbits, coons, fish, apples, etc. etc.

[fourarmed]

I have an Edgemark folding hunter that is about like a Buck, but lighter. I've had it for 30 years, and it has dressed a lot of deer. I've never stoned it, just touch it up on a crock stick. For butchering, it is hard to beat boning knives made from power hacksaw blades. The blades I use are about 1/16x1x12. Grind them to shape, drill a couple of holes, attach the scales, and finish up on a belt sander. [/I]

[DLCTEX]

I had a Buck Crosslock that I really liked. It had two blades, one being a gut hook that the handle near the opening stud had raised dots so I could tell which blade was being opened without looking. The guthook needed some refinement as it had to be held in an exact position to cut reliably. I lost it and replaced it with a Gerber that was similar, but it also took a walk when loaned out. Currently using an Old Timer fixed blade with gut hook. I do like gut hooks.

[Dorado]

Well I got my steel in today. I'm going to draw out my design. I've gone with a pattern I pulled off of an old knife. Here's what I'm planning on making, plus some modifications.
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/Dorado1873/JB111edit.jpg
What I've drawn out with a couple of modifications.
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae347/Dorado1873/mk2.jpg
I'm thinking of changing the guard before I start. I made a wooden model of it and had a bit of trouble with the cutting surface. I'll make a couple of more wooden ones before I start on the Steel.

[Greg5278]

The heavily swept back commercial skinne rin 5: works well, as does the 6.25" Giesser Messer scimitar knife. I reground a New one for a Chef Friend of mine,, and it is his favorite for boning, and greaking down carcasses. I am a Chef, and use both bor breaking, when it comes to actual boneless cutting go to 10" to 14" Scimatar shapes for slicing, and sometimes a 11.8" Gyuto design for cubing.
I cut almost all of the Meat and Fish at work, I won't tolerate a design that doesn't work, or a dull knife.
Greg

[Greg5278]

You would be better off bringing the grind line higher, all the way to the spine. I like the Spines to be filed, and polished to a full radius, so I can bear down if need be.
Torch harden the balder in warm 120-140F heavy oil, and draw the back to a blue purple. If you don't know how to harden it, seek help.
Greg

[Greg5278]

You would be better off bringing the grind line higher, all the way to the spine. I like the Spines to be filed, and polished to a full radius, so I can bear down if need be.
Torch harden the balder in warm 120-140F heavy oil, and draw the back to a blue purple. If you don't know how to harden it, seek help.
Greg

[Dorado]

Thanks Greg, I was planning on bringing it up higher, I just didn't change my drawings. I'll be sure to do that, although I don't think I'll bring it all the way to the spine.
As far as hardening and heat treating I've got a friend that makes tools for a living and has all of the equipment to do that. He's offered to heat treat and temper for me. That was the only part I was worried about. I got the steel in a couple of days ago so I'm a bit excited, so I'm going to get started on this in the next few days. I hope it turns out nice. I'm going to take my time on it to make sure it is as perfect as I can make it.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Well I've forged knives for the past 20 years or more and I can tell you if you want to get a knock down drag out going among a bunch of knife makers start talking about heat treating of knife steels!!! With just you and your buddy working on it you should be safe! Good luck!

[Dorado]

Seagiant, I know what you mean. Luckily there isn't that many ways to heat treat O-1 steel. The directions are pretty well clear on that. I'm going to get started later on today. It's a bit cold out there right now, and I still need to get a new belt for my sander. Hopefully I can take some pictures while I'm making it.
So, since you've been forging knives for 20 years, Got any tips before I start?

[seagiant]

Hi,
I guess you are doing stock removal instead of forging which is ok! I started out as a forger as that is what I wanted to do. I joined ABANA and found my local chapter in my state and started going to meetings. I also got the directory for the different bladesmiths society's and called some knifemakers to see if I could visit their shop. Living in Florida I was blessed with a lot of pro knifemakers in the state. The first knifemakers shop I ever visited was Randall's in Orlando! Very nice people and Mr. Bo Randall was the man that put custom knifemaking back on the map!!!

My best advice is to try and get a mentor to cut the learning curve as much as possible! The learning never stops but you want to get the basics down ASAP then it's up to you to let your talent grow! There are a lot of older knifemakers out there very willing to pass on knowledge if asked!

[seagiant]

Hi,
I had to put this in this entry as I type slow and when I tried to add to my last post I get timed out,anyway one thing you want to do with your O-1 or any other plain carbon steel is to heat cycle it before quenching to bring your grain structure down. This will make for a sharper blade and improve edge holding ability in the end product This is one of the many things you can do to make a superior blade to any factory offering! This is not in the heat treat specs! You are not making a widget for a machine you are making a blade and YOU have to work the steel!


To heat cycle bring your blade up to it's "critical temp" which for O-1 is about 1550 off the top of my head you have the specs. This can be done by color of the steel but is also possible to use a magnet as it will go non magnetic when at it's at it's CT! Do this 3 times letting the steel cool between each heat and on the third time go ahead and quench! This will shrink the grain structure of the steel for the improved property's mentioned. For Quenching medium I have used just about everything including real mobil quench oil and now use the cheapest ATF transmission fluid I can find!

Take an old file (W-2,1095) and try it before you do the O-1 you bought. Heat cycle once then quench and then break the hardened steel and look at the grain at the break. Then heat cycle 3 times then break and look at the difference in the structure. It should go from peeble looking to a silk type structure which is what you want! This is just one of the things you can do to make a super blade that will out cut and outlast anything you've used before!

[Dorado]

Thanks Seagiant, I didn't know that about the heat cycle. Once I get to that point I'll be sure it's done. Makes sense though.
What do mean by stock removal? Taking the original scales off an existing knife? I'm not up on the jargon just yet.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Stock removal means that you are going to take a piece of steel as close to the finished size as you can and then remove by whatever means the portions that need to be removed to give the shape that you want.

In forging you move the metal to where you want and then just do clean up. I prefer forging as I enjoy moving the metal under the hammer,but for smaller knives it's really easier to just stock remove!

Try to not take anyone's advice as true or as holy writ no matter who told you but experiment for yourself and find out for yourself what works for you and then when you make a knife and someone makes a comment about what it can do you can speak with authority because you already KNOW what it is capable of! I had a co-worker talk about one of my knives in a context that it would snap if bent to 90 degress angle. I told him I would bet him the price of the knife and then we would see if the knife would snap in the vise or not. Of course the knife would be usless after the bend,but I knew what it would do and was ready to back it up. He sensed my positive attitude I guess and declined the bet!

Here is an excellent site from a man I took a week long class under and one of todays premier knife makers!

http://www.dfoggknives.com/

Get it hot! Hit it hard!

[Dorado]

I guess I am going with stock removal. I checked out that site, he has some good stuff there!
I've had a small set back but I'm planning on getting restarted again in the next few days. Hopefully by next week I can get it in to a forge and start heat treating and tempering.

[miestro_jerry]

You can buy most of the pieces and parts from the knife suplly houses and glue the whole thing together, finsih the handle material and then polish.

The Leather Factory/Tandy has a video and plans for making sheath and holsters.

I have made them for many years, was a member of the Ohio Knifemakers Association and the Canadian Knifemakers Guild.

Jerry

[izzyjoe]

handmade knives are so cool, but my favorite skinnin' knife is a Geber Gator non serrated. the 110 buck is another timless classic. years ago a friend made me a knife out of a old basterd file, it worked very good, but took to long to sharpen. then i dropped it on the floor and it broke like glass. i was heartbroken.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have made literally huundreds of custom knives. this is what I carry everyday and I have had this one for 8 years now. It is called a Superknife and it is the most useful pocket knife I have ever owned. The clip on the side has prevented me from losing it, which is what happened to all of my other pocket knives.

Randy

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_182084f07c7dfb8af6.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3337)

[ADfields]

I have several beaver tail design knives. They are great for skinning, I'm a trapper and skin a lot. If you sharpen them all the way around remember they will cut on the back too, you only have to stop to sharpen half as often that way, use care or you will skin yourself, lol. Actually one of my favorite designs is the ulu. They are less hand fatiguing and great for large cutting and skinning tasks. My $.02. 10 ga

Can't beet an ulu for fleshing hides back at the house and they are great skinners also but a bit too specialized for me to pack in the bush with me. In the bush for field uses (cooking, eating, whittling, cutting ropes and skinning a critter once in a while) all I want is a 3 to 4 inch carbon steel drop point, a good little hatchet with an ulu shaped bit to one side and a hammer head the other, and a good Arkansas stone.

Ulu means “woman’s knife” in Yupik (Eskimo) here in Alaska where they are from. But women knife or not an ulu, properly sharpened from one side only is a heck of a good tool to have if you work on hides at all!

Now if you process meat for yourself you need some Victorinox knives, I don’t mean their Swiss Army line I mean their industrial knife line, that is all you see in slather houses and fish packing plants. They have thin flexible blades that hold an edge very well and indestructible molded non-slip plastic handles on white, black, or yellow. They are simply the best using knifes made, they don’t brake the bank to buy, and are the Snap-On of knives. The reason I stopped making knives about 15 years ago is I can’t make half as good a knife for twice the money worth of materials as I can buy Victorinox knives. They even make my favorite patterns, a 10” drop point butchering and an extremely curved blade skinner pattern . . . I like the black handles but the martial is the same no-slip (even when all slimy with fish guts) indestructible plastic in all the colors.
Victorinox knives (http://www.victorinox.com/us/category/Category/Professional-Cutlery/Knives/Black-Fibrox-Pro/2811?f=category&v=2/200/2800/2810/2811&m=add&)