How in h311?

[fishnbob]

I keep reading posts about all the 45-70's y'all are shootin' and I would like to know how in the H311 do you take the recoil? I just got back from the bench with my .35 Rem, yes, I said .35 Rem in a Marlin 336 after shootin' about 15 rds as quick as I could load, aim & shoot offhand and I gotta headache and possibly a concussion. I was standing & shootin offhand. If I had been hunkered down on the bench, I probably would have needed the Resque Squad. What makes these levers kick so bad? Is it the drop in the stock? Would a recoil pad be worthwhile?BTW, the rounds were Rem. 200 gr. PSP factories.[smilie=b:

[Jim]

I'm 59 years old, I'm 5'2" tall, I weigh 135 pounds soaking wet with both boots full of water and I have arthritis in my elbows and my knees.I have a Gibbs bolt action .45-70. I shoot 500 grain boolits through it and am just before receiving a 560 grain Lyman mold to cast for it.

[grubbylabs]

I think it all depends on how you load it. I found my reloads so far to be very mild.

[Heavy lead]

I opened this post thinking Hodgdon introduced a new powder.:bigsmyl2:
Yup the .45-70 can bust your chops IME you must have a rifle that fits. Physical size doesn't have much to do with it IMO either.
Personally I detest straight gripped 45-70's, had a Marlin Cowboy and a 1886 Winchester whippy barreled extra light I got rid of for that reason, now the 1895 with the pistol grip is another story, nice shooter.
But yeah, it's like strong black coffee, it's an aquired taste.

[405]

fishnbob,
I'm with you on jarring recoil- I don't like it either. There IS a reason for enduring it and it isn't for having fun at the range just shooting or for accuracy. In some circles it's no more than bragging rights. Thruth is if you spend enough time watching folks shoot the heavy recoilers or heavy recoiling loads they grin and bare it and act giddy but the target usually tells a different story about how successful it really is. Another thing I notice if observing covertly, they shoot a few of those then switch to a different gun with less recoil or just quit shooting. In any case I don't see them at the range very often so they likely don't shoot much at all.

I'm pretty much recoil proof, it's taken many years to get there but still it takes a lot of concentration to shoot the heavy hitters more than a few rounds (maybe five) and maintain good shooting technique. I always pad up but even then some flat jerk the whole body rearward when fired which leads to a form of whiplash and sometimes a headache. No, I don't use a leadsled and don't want to. They may not yield the same POI as when shooting without and they break wood stocks. :(

Unless there is a reason for loading a 45-70 up to near 458 Win Mag ballistics, to me it seems pointless to do it. Why not just get a 458 Win Mag in a 10 LB bolt gun with good stock design and be done with it. In reality there are very few folks with a real need for something like a Marlin GG loaded heavy. Probably about the same number as need a full house 450 Ackley. Some carry that fire power in places like rural AK for bear protection and the others may use something like the 450 Ackley for dangerous game in Africa... or carried as a backup by guides or PHs where a high percentage of the clients brag about the recoil and power of his such and such caliber but can't shoot for beans because of the recoil.

The 45-70 is very easy to load reasonably, be accurate and be fun to shoot. Light weight and drop in the butt are the main reasons some lever guns "kick" even with tame cartridges like the 30-30. Just pad up and roll with the punches or load down to a more reasonable level.

[WHITETAIL]

First off, I use a sissy pad in the summer.
When all I have is a T shirt on.
When it gets closer to hunting season I
wear a jacket with a sholder pad.
Then the loads out of my 45-70 are at
the low end of the Lyman reloading manual for the Cowboy.:lovebooli

[helice]

405 kind of said it, and by me, he said it right.
I have a 444 Marlin in the Big Bore Winchester 94. Paco Kelley wrote up some fascinating articles about the extra strength of it over the Marlin. He spoke of tyranosaurus loads and I decided to give them a try. 300 gr. WFN-GCs at 2300'/s. Lord have mercy on my weak and tiny frame.
Lately I've been loading with Red Dot and 700-X pushing 180 gr. Ogival Wadcutters at a sedate 1300'/s. This experiment has proven to me that practice time is inversely related to recoil. Load it light and have more fun. Any normal 45-70 boolit at 1300'/s will bore through any critter shot on the North American Continent. There are a number of shooters on this forum who have proved that.

[crabo]

`I have a good recoil pad on my GBL. I also use a lace on cheek pad from Cabellas. The other thing is that I don't load over 1500 fps.

That load, along with leaning into it, is enjoyable to me, to about 25 or 30 rounds. But then I am a big guy. The cheek piece allows me to get a good cheek weld and that helps with the headaches.

[wrench man]

I usually put the but of the stock against my shoulder, not my head?, I consider the 35 Remington rather docile, my 338WM, 444 Marlin, 45-70 and 458 WM have rather stout recoil.

[Lonegun1894]

I also went through a stage where I had to load mine with the heaviest bullets going as fast as I could get them cause anything less just wasnt "manly". Well, I either turned weak or got smarter casue I learned after some time that the load I use now consisting of a 450gr pill at 1300-1400fps is enough for anything I need to do. I can still handle the old loads without the pain getting too severe for about 25 rds, but my groups start going downhill FAST after about 10rds, and that's no way to practice or be able to trust myself in the field. The slow loads shoot very well, and dont beat me up a bit.

[greywuuf]

I was all set to go down the heavy fast road when I bought my then new '86 Winchester, it has some huge ( 28"?) octagon barrel and the added bit of weight that is the extra plate for the take down feature. It is a fairly heavy lever gun. First range session I was function firing with the only bullets I could find local ( 325 grain speers I believe ) loaded fairly light. it was not uncomfortable to shoot but was no pussycat either. an "old timer walked by and gave me the thumbs up and said that one is just like mine !.... we got to talking and I went off about how I was planning on the 500+ grain pills and was wondering how fast I could push them and asked if he had ever tried loading it up. His reply about summed it up for me, Yeah I did that for a while came out here every week with the chronograph and went looking for the Highest velocity, untill one day after a group that was starting to open up with velocity it Dawned on me that the 405's at 1500 fps or so had punched through both shoulders on over a dozen moose over the years and I had never recovered a single one of them.

I gave up on the high speed loads then and there and have never looked back.

Dan in Alaska
( where the Moose can go 1500 pounds and carry 60" or better racks )

[Mooseman]

I shoot a lot of 45-70 in Various bullet weight loads and I find it is More of a Push against my shoulder than the hammering recoil you get from a .338 win Mag or similar round. My .405 Winchester is about the same ,and My .50-140 Sharps isnt bad either because of the gun weight.
Recoil is never even felt when shooting an animal like a Moose or Grizzly Bear because of the adrenaline pumping thru your Body.
None of mine have sissy pads either... and I am 6'@ 195 lbs.

Rich

[btroj]

I shoot way more moderate loads in my 45-70 than I do heavy ones.
When I feel a need for heavier loads, like a bear hunt, I work up to them. I load a few and when I a, at the range I may shoot 5 or 10 all offhand. Next time out I may shoot a few more. Over the course of a month or so I work up to shooting 20 to 30 per range visit.
The key is to shoot the rifle enough with moderate loads to become comfortable with it. Thesis when I learn to run the action, get used to the sights, and generally learn to shoot the rifle. Once you are comfortable with the rifle you can begin to increase the load levels.
I also almost never shoot this gun from the bench. I don't hunt from the bench so why would I practice from the bench? I sit it in offhand as well. Offhand is so much better for handling recoil.

These rifles can hurt like nothing else, if you let them. Hold them tight and it reduces the pain. Work up slowly in load levels, it gives you time to get used to it.

Ultimate advice- hold that sucker tight when you start shooting heavy loads after a period shooting more moderate loads. This is crucial in keeping the rear bell of the scope off your forehead. Twice.

Enjoy the rifle, don't let it hurt you.

[fishnbob]

If it becomes totally intolerable, I usually put a small sandbag against my shoulder but it doesn't help with the sight picture. I have a good feel for a varmint trigger from so much target & varmint shootin' in smaller calibers and I deer hunt with a 270 that neatly cloverleafs and I have to reprogram myself after each outing with the .35. I ordered a mauser action for a friend of mine a few years ago and he eventually turned it into a 45-70. He brought it by the house after sighting it in one day and showed me what he had built. His eyes were bloodshot like he had been drunk for a week and he said his head hurt like hades and he said, "I don't know if I can shoot this anymore or not". This guy has shot the barrel outta many a rifle and is one of the best shots I ever saw. Knowing him, he loaded a 500 grainer as stiff as possible. If I don't take anything else from all of the above comments, one thing is certain. A game animal isn't likely to know whether he just got thumped by a 200 gr. boolit going 1500 fps or was it actually going 2400 fps?

[Jim]

Just occurred to me I need to clear something up. I CAN NOT shoot my Gibbs from a bench with those Howitzer shells more than once or twice. I don't understand why, but if I'm standing, I can go through quite a few.

[6.5 mike]

Jim, try shooting off the bench in a more upright position. Read about it in R. Wright's book, I've found it really improved my groups, it puts the butt into a more natural position, much like offhand, with better shoulder contact. This works great with a cresent buttplate. :popcorn:

[oneokie]

What makes these levers kick so bad? Is it the drop in the stock? Would a recoil pad be worthwhile? [smilie=b:

How well does the gun fit you? Or, how well do you fit the gun? The wrong lop, or the wrong drop will cause any gun to hurt you.

[1Shirt]

My theory equates reloaded ammo to driving a car. Most cars will do well in excess of 100 mph. However, shy of being on a racetrack very few ever get driven that fast. The same should apply to reloaded ammo, particularly with cast loads. You can load max loads with jacketed, suffer the recoil, and pay for the additional cost of powder. OR, you can go with low end starting loads and work up to a satisfactory accuracy load. The same applies to shooting cast. In addition, I have serious doubt that anyone truely enjoys having their teeth rattled by heavy recoiling rifles. A good quality recoil pad helps a lot. If you don't want to spend the money for one to be installed on your rifle, suggest you consider a good slip on that you can use on a number of rifles. A sissy bag for the big rifles from the bench works well also. I have used bags of sand between me the the butt of the rifle. Have even seen a couple of times when I guy was shooting (I think it was a 458 w/factory) using a 25 lb bag of shot twixt him and the rifle. And of course, with more and more development of shooting devices, there is alway a lead sled if you want to put out the money. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[hornsurgeon]

i have some quite stout loads for the 350 RD copy that i use for hunting and practice right be fore season. but i don;t use these for normal range sessions. i also go the other way, soth some loads that barely go 650fps.

a good recoil pad will do wonders ona 45-70

[williamwaco]

If it becomes totally intolerable, I usually put a small sandbag against my shoulder but it doesn't help with the sight picture.




Bob,

Small sand bag??

I walk past a half dozen unused benches in each direction from mine and steal the largest sandbag I can find.


.

[northmn]

My 45-70 is a Italian copy of a Remington rolling block and weighs somewhere around 10 pounds. It also has a shotgun butt plate. With BP loads it shoots fairly reasonable. I HAD a Marlin cowboy that kicked like h--l, even after I filled the butt plate with lead. It was a little too light, but usable with 320 grain handloads at about 1400. About all I enjoy shooting out of the 45-70 is black powder loads and usually lighter bullets.
My 35 Remington is in a rifle with a 24 inch barrel and does not seem to be that bad with recoil, which is one reason I like it. But I rarely shoot any high power rifle more than a few times in a row. I could ask the same question about how those that load some of those heavy bullet top loads in their Marlin 45 Colts can take the recoil? Those rifles are lighter than a 45-70 95 Marlin.

DP

[GSaltzman]

That's why my 1895SS wears the Decelerator. Really helped out. Also had my smith do a trigger job on it.

[fishnbob]

And of course, with more and more development of shooting devices, there is alway a lead sled if you want to put out the money. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

Yeah, I got a lead sled. My daughter gave it to me last Christmas. I think it may be too rough on the rifle, like tying it to a tree and pulling the trigger with a string. I think the zero is different with the sled vs off sand bags. YMMV, but I can see a difference on paper. Plus, I like recoil, don't get me wrong, I just can't see all the difference in my 270 with a 150 gr Norma bullet @ 2900 fps and a 200 gr 35 cal bullet going 2400 fps. I think most of it is in the drop in the stock of the Marlin vs the straight line of the Remington 700. I'm getting back to the point where I think it is designed to be shot with open sights and not a scope that forces you to raise your head to see the reticle. I ain't givin' up, I'm just on a rant and to JIM IN FLOYD, you are just one tough B@$t@rd!!! You can't do nuthin with a coon hunter!:wink:

[Mk42gunner]

I had an 1895 Marlin in .45-70 for a while; in my opinion it didn't kick as bad as the current 336 in .35 Remington. Of course I was shooting factory and equivalent loads out of it, whereas with the .35 the accurate loads came at the top of the load table.

Stock design and gun weight has an awful lot to do with felt recoil. My .35 Whelen with Remington 200 gr PSP feel about the same as the Marlin with top end 200 grain loads; all due to stock design and gun weight, (plus I have a decelerator on the Whelen). Since I think the Marlin is going to be a keeper, I will put a recoil pad on it this winter. There is no sense hurting yourself while trying to have fun.

If you really want to cure someone of borrowing your gun, get a Ruger No1 in .45-70 and load up some Elmer Keith Memorial Loads. With the factory recoil brick, not many people want to shoot more than one.

Robert

[MGySgt]

Sissy Pad, sit up straight vice leaning over, use a rest that helps absorb some of the recoil.

Getting ready for hunting season I shoot a lot from my seat or sitting position over my cross sticks.

[frnkeore]

Here is my story........ I've got a Sharps Borchart in 45/70 it has a full octagon 1.150, 31" long barrel. The rifle with a scope on it weights 16 lb.

I shot a BP match with it in '94 that consisted of 40 rounds, 20 scope, 20 iron sight (about a lb lighter). All together, I fired 65 rounds (foulers,sighters and a few practice). The load was 490 gr spitzer, breech seated, 15 gr smokeless and 70 gr FG with a wad to hold everything in place. Velocity ran about 1470 fps.

I seperated my shoulder and couldn't shoot rifles for about 14 years! And will never shoot that 45/70 again. I had shot it a lot before that with smokeless and a 430 gr bullet at 1100 fps or less.

I'm rebarreling it to 30/40 Wesson this winter.

Frank

[fishnbob]

Here is my story........ I've got a Sharps Borchart in 45/70 it has a full octagon 1.150, 31" long barrel. The rifle with a scope on it weights 16 lb.

I shot a BP match with it in '94 that consisted of 40 rounds, 20 scope, 20 iron sight (about a lb lighter). All together, I fired 65 rounds (foulers,sighters and a few practice). The load was 490 gr spitzer, breech seated, 15 gr smokeless and 70 gr FG with a wad to hold everything in place. Velocity ran about 1470 fps.

I seperated my shoulder and couldn't shoot rifles for about 14 years! And will never shoot that 45/70 again. I had shot it a lot before that with smokeless and a 430 gr bullet at 1100 fps or less.

I'm rebarreling it to 30/40 Wesson this winter.

Frank

My gosh, I would have thought that 16 lbs weight and a 31" barrel would have tamed it down to acceptable levels. I've had a separated shoulder from a car wreck. That sucks! Glad to see you are going back into it. Once a shooter, always a shooter. You can't get it out of your blood.:groner:

[n4qwf]

Recoil is for real. I say that up front because I go farther to say that it is also a state of mind. I have had folks tell me they marvel that my shoulder is not broken from my Encore 45-70 300 gr. 1925 fps lead boolit loads. Sure they kick but you know so does my 30.06 and my 300 win mag. and my 450 marlin and 458 win mag Ruger #1. I have yet to meet anyone that was broken or killed by recoil. If you go to the air gun sites you see much discussion on how much recoil some of there guns have. So I guess my point is I just shot what is fun and ignore the recoil. For those who can't I suggest lighter loads, smaller calibers or maybe a air gun.

[northmn]

Bob Brister wrote about he effests of recoil on a cummulative level. While he was talking about trap shooting, he claimed that it caused neck problems as well as bursitis. While we do not shoot rifle as much as a trap shooter will shoot, I would not ignore it. If something hurts, its the body's way of saying don't do that. Finn Agaard used to write about how he really did not enjoy sighting in African express rifles. Again these people would not shoot all that many rounds in a setting and often used sissy pads. I do not like recoil where I shoot a lot of cartridges at a time. When I shot BP competition I found the 45 cal muzzle loader with round ball to be about max, as for me, for sustained accurate shooting. That would probably translate to something about the power of a 357 mag rifle laoded with moderate loads.
The schutzen shooters started with a 40-70 as top gun moved to the 38-55 and then set records with the 32-40. One saw a progression of less recoil there also.

DP

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

fishnbob,

Stock shape and length can have a lot of negative or positive effects.

Truely I do not understand how so many folk can shoot the lever action rifles as well as they do with all the drop those stocks typically have. Amaizing!

When I bought my RUGER #1 which was and is my first and only 45/70, I loaded up some ammo and went out to shoot it with the factory iron sights --- after installing a good thick/soft recoil pad in place of the thin/hard factory offering.

The RUGER has a "classic" style butt without all the drop of the lever actions, so at least I don't have that problem

My intention was to scope the rifle, but not having the scope and thinking it would be nice to also have the iron sights sighted in, I gave it a bit of a go.

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my, --- wondered just what in the world I had gotten myself into after all the read'in, plann'in, buy'in etc. etc. ----- was I going to be man enough to handle this 45/70???.

Well bought and mounted the scope and oh my what a difference. The higher head position made a world of difference in this total picture.

I also had a Marlin .44mag in which I shot the same 310gr LBT boolit I use in my RedHawk and after every shooting session I was whiping my nose for hours afterward, checking for the blood I thought was running.

Problem -------- Short stock combined with all that drop in the butt.

So added a good thick recoil pad which got my thumb away from my nose and problem solved.

Sissy pad ---------- Well, I have used a sand bag between me and the rifle - while on the bench - for years with anything bigger then the .243, but my wife has made me a shot filled shoulder bag that I now use and 40 + rounds off the bench with the 45/70 is no problem at all.

While working up loads for a friends 30/06, I used the same bag, and the first few shots off the bench kind of caught me by surprise do to the MUCH lighter recoil.

So, Yes, the 45/70 does come back a bit, but a good - thick/soft - recoil pad should help in the field and a bag on the bench should make it manageable and even enjoyable.

I use scopes, so the sight picture is not an issue, even if I am back a bit more then normal from the scope.

Kep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[1kshooter]

for me some .cal hit me harder...or bother me more then others...I find that 30-06 has a sharp recoil that makes me ill after 40-50 rnds...but in the same weight gun I can shoot 100-150rnds of .300win with no issues at all?!?!?!

as for 45-70 I shoot up to 100rnds at a time and I like them hot!

I would add that peeking on me or not ...my accuracy with full house loads does not go south after 5 shots
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/bowboy/0719012148a.jpg

[fishnbob]

for me some .cal hit me harder...or bother me more then others...I find that 30-06 has a sharp recoil that makes me ill after 40-50 rnds...but in the same weight gun I can shoot 100-150rnds of .300win with no issues at all?!?!?!

as for 45-70 I shoot up to 100rnds at a time and I like them hot!

I would add that peeking on me or not ...my accuracy with full house loads does not go south after 5 shots
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y149/bowboy/0719012148a.jpg

Holy cow, what an awesome group, offhand no less there 1kshooter! I'm glad you posted the pic. Now I feel like I need to practice some more. I shot a 3 shot group at 50 yds the other day and put them in a 3 inch circle and I thought I did pretty good. That was with the .35 Rem. You definitely got your stuff together.:bigsmyl2:

[MtGun44]

Kick-EEze recoil pad is superior to others - it uses Sorbothane, a urethane that absorbs
much more recoil than most ordinary rubber pads.

Keep boolit wt and velocity moderate and they are not too bad.

Bill

[ghh3rd]

When I ordered my 45-70 Guide Gun I was worried that I would have a problem with the recoil I was pleased to find that it came with a Decelerator pad installed. I shoot up to 50 420 gr boolits in a session, and have no soreness, or flinching. That pad seems to turn the shock into a nice big push.

Randy

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

MtGun44,

Have heard bad about the Kick-EEze and "sorbothane", including bad reports from a gun smith.

Have you personally used them and are there a negatives that you see?

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[shovel80]

I usually put the but of the stock against my shoulder, not my head?, I consider the 35 Remington rather docile, my 338WM, 444 Marlin, 45-70 and 458 WM have rather stout recoil.

LOL..that made me laugh!....I think we all have different amounts of recoil we can handle with "enjoyment"!!..

Terry

[shovel80]

Can hardly wait to get my 45-120 going!!

Terry

[Kraschenbirn]

My first experience with the recoil potential of a 45-70 came with my H&R reproduction Trapdoor Carbine. Bought the gun used and the seller threw in 3/4 of a box of Rem. 350 gr. JHPs. First day out; 'bout a half-dozen of those, without my shooting vest, and I was ready to call it day. Next time I took that piece to the range, I was wearing a shooting vest with a PAST recoil pad but I was also shooting my first attempt at BP handloads...something like 68 gr. GOEX FFg under a 500 gr RNFP (as close to old gov't load as I could cram into a modern solid-head case). Yeah, you guessed it...those beat me up as badly as the Rem. factory loads and I'm just a touch under 6' even and weigh a solid 195.

Then, though, I did a bit of reading (starting with Spence Wolf's books) and discovered that the U.S. Army had figured out, early on, that the .45-70-500 load was more than most shooters could handle in a carbine and had developed an alternative load (.45-55-405) specifically for issue to cavalry and artillery troops. Loaded up a few of those, went back to the range, and discovered true happiness. Even shooting from a fairly static position...like prone or from a field rest...I can easily run 10-12 rounds at a time without discomfort.

Guess the point I'm try to make is that, unless you're looking to tackle something very large and ill-dispositioned, the old .45-70 doesn't need much in the way of hot-rodding to get the job done.

Bill

[TXGunNut]

My go-to rifle is a 45-70 Guide Gun I call "Thumper" and it's not because she's cute & fuzzy. Even with a muzzle brake I make sure I shoot everything else first because I'll pick up a flinch more times than not when shooting more than a few rounds off the bench. My J-bullet and CB loads for it are moderate and well under max but they're damn sure attention-getters.
Kid on the next bench enjoyed the fireballs last night, kinda made it all worthwhile. A nice group helps too. :redneck:

[MtGun44]

Definitely personally used several Kick EEze pads, they are excellent. What bad have you
heard? I installed my own on the Marlin.

I have tested sorbothane for energy absorption at work for special applications of impact
absorption and KNOW that it really does absorb energy. I was doing an engineering test
to see how much energy it absorbed. Set up high speed video and dropped a 1" steel
ball 1 inch onto a mill table (cast iron). It bounced about .8" up or so (forget exact number) in the
high speed. I then put down a piece of .040" thick sorbothane and dropped the ball again.
To the naked eye, it looked like the ball just STUCK to the table, zero bounce, like maybe
there was backwards duct tape or something sticky there. On the high speed video, you
could see about .060" rebound. VERY impressive to see that sort of energy absorption.

Believe that this stuff absorbs a bunch of energy. We use it in some special applications for
impact absorption in high value electronics.

Bill

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks Mtgun44,

Can't recall, the comments now, and it has been awhile since I ask about them.

However, the Gun Smith was negative in his comments.

Thanks for your info. Seems like your tests have pretty much answered any question a person might have!!!!!!!

Seems like it should work great.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[pdawg_shooter]

I load a 430gr paper patched bullet over 54gr of AA2495. Velocity? Who knows. Who cares? It is accurate and seem to kill whatever I shoot. In a seven pound guide gun the recoil is noticeable but not punishing. For punishing try a 300 RUM with 220gr bullets at just over 2800! Now that hurts. Think the recoil velocity has a lot to do with it.

[izzyjoe]

everybody takes recoil differently, it deppends on how much you shoot and what you shoot. a friend and me was shooting one time, and i had one of milsurp rifles, it was a k98 in 8mm. i had some lee 175gr. boolits on top of 28grs. of 4895, very mild to me, but he shot it a few times and was complaing about the recoil, and the metal buttplate. it never seem to bother me, and i've seen him shoot alot of buckshot in a 12g. and never phaze him. everyone's different. a 450 marlin will kick the fire out of you. i know a man that bought one when they first come out, and he sold it because of the recoil. he offered it to me but i passed, and he outweighed me by a 150lb. i don't like recoil, but i have shoot some that did kick!

[frnkeore]

Here is a test for people that say heavy recoil doesn't bother them............ Set at a bench with one of those Guild Guns or Ruger #3's, fire 40 rounds of the factory 300 gr/1800 fps as fast or slow as you like. Come back the next day and watch them fire 10 or 20 more while you watch there face.:drinks:

Or, maybe ask them if they'd like to try the old 1886 load of 54 gr 3031 under a 405 for the second days shooting. (holding back a evil wicked grin)

Frank

[pdawg_shooter]

I have spent many a weekend, Saturday and Sunday, at my bench shoot full power loads in my 1895g. Not a problem. Other guns kick a lot worse than this one does.

[6pt-sika]

Kick-EEze recoil pad is superior to others - it uses Sorbothane, a urethane that absorbs
much more recoil than most ordinary rubber pads.

Keep boolit wt and velocity moderate and they are not too bad.

Bill

I agree about the KickEez being the better pad to use !

I have a circa 1972 Marlin 1895 in 45-70 that came from the factory with a semi curved hard plastic buttplate . When I shot the RD 460-425GC juiced up pretty well with H322 the heel of that stock would dig in my shoulder and over the course of three weeks shooting that thing working up loads with the RD 460-350GC , the RD 460-425GC , the BRP 462-465GC and the BallistiCast 462-550GC I had a nice KNOT in my shoulder and it took about a month to go away . In that time I dug out a another stock I had that would fit my 1895 that had a slight crack . I fixed the crack and fit a 1" thick KickEez to the stock refinished it and installed it on my 45-70 . Now from the bench the 350 grainers are pussycat loads the 425 is nowhere near the brute it was with that curved plastic plate and the two heavy ones are just a push now . Inicidently when it had the original stock still on it the 425 grainer was the worst of the bunch . The 350 grains didn't have enough weight for the recoil thing and the two big boys were heavy enough that they seemed to calm the abrupt recoil factor ! However that 425 grainer for me atleast was the one that had enough velocity and enough weight to really knock the ****e outta you without the pad !

I found my medium loads with XMP5744 no fun in the Marlin 1895CB . But a pair of Marlin 1895G's I had never gave me any reason to make chanages or stop shooting the heavy loads . Also the Marlin 1895XLR was pretty much a pussycat as well with that big old recoil pad !

As to the RUger #1 thing . I have never owned or shot a #1 in 45-70 . I do however own a pair of 1H's in 375 H&H MAG and 416 REM MAG and find them fine to shoot with a grain under max loads (these are with jacketed bullets) , also have 1B's in 300 WIN MAG , 300 Weatherby and 338 WIN MAG and again none are that bad to shoot !
I did however once own a really nice 1H in 458 WIN MAG and that thing kicked the F outta me . I was shooting 500 grain jacketed with alot of RL-7 . They were right at max as well as I can remmmeber . Think I was shooting 3 in 1 1/2" at 50 yards with open sights . But that one was painfull to shoot from the bench . For a Ruger #1 the 416 REM MAG is as big as I wanna go !

I load for a friends battery of CZ550's , he has a 375 H&H , 416 Rigby and a 505 Gibbs . None of those three are bad from the bench (or atleast thats my opinion) I will say however one needs to be aware that the Gibs IS GOING TO MOVE YOU . Not in a violent way but it will move you !

[Mk42gunner]

As to the RUger #1 thing . I have never owned or shot a #1 in 45-70 . I do however own a pair of 1H's in 375 H&H MAG and 416 REM MAG and find them fine to shoot with a grain under max loads (these are with jacketed bullets) , also have 1B's in 300 WIN MAG , 300 Weatherby and 338 WIN MAG and again none are that bad to shoot !
I did however once own a really nice 1H in 458 WIN MAG and that thing kicked the F outta me . I was shooting 500 grain jacketed with alot of RL-7 . They were right at max as well as I can remmmeber . Think I was shooting 3 in 1 1/2" at 50 yards with open sights . But that one was painfull to shoot from the bench . For a Ruger #1 the 416 REM MAG is as big as I wanna go !

6pt,

A 1H or B probably wouldn't be bad in .45-70; however, the only ones I have seen are the 1S which is a pound or two lighter. The one I had wasn't bad to shoot from the bench or prone with anything close to factory equivelent. But get north of 50 grains of 3031 behind a Speer 400 gr and you had no doubts about the primer function. At all.

That was the only gun I have actually broken the crosshairs of the scope on, so far. (It was a cheap scope).

I agree recoil affects people differently; for instance no .338 Win Mag has ever given me problems, but every .300 Win Mag I have ever shot makes me want to quit after nine or ten rounds. Even if it is the same model of rifle.

Robert

[windy]

I perked up when you said you had a 336 in 35 rem; my new (old) toy is a 336A and I've been braggin' on how light it recoils. Now mind ye, the 336A has the weight of 4" more barrel, and sundry extra ounces from the perch-belly forearm, but since I'm fairly long of limb--and of tooth--I added a pad for LOP and comfort. Now, shooting any levergun as fast as you can, a bunch of times, doesn't do much for your accuracy, to begin with. It's also expensive, 'specially shooting factory loads. But a cheap hard 158gr cast boolit over about 9 grains of Trailboss will teach you all you need to know about your 35's handling characteristics, save the ear-bones of yer fellow range rats, and cost enough less to let you shoot all you want to--and you can still sight it in just before hunting season with the full-power load of yer choice to tackle bull hippos or yer favorite japanese matinee monsters. You may have just found your best squirrel, chuck and 'yote buster, too! As for recoil--my 95-pound cousin emptied her hubby's .405 Winchester, crescent butt 'n all, in a black bear that decided to check out her kids and her kitchen. She swears she didn't feel a thing!
mind yer topknot! windy

sonny, whar i growed up, "magnum" was jist another word fer "lousy hunter"!

[pipehand]

First off, 425 grains at 1330 fps is enough to do what I need my Guide gun to do. Even at that the balistics are similar to shooting 20. ga. slugs.
Early on, I figured out that due to the relatively slow and heavy boolit coupled with the relative light weight, you just can't shoot it like a .223. It acts like a large bore pistol--- you have to hold it exactly the same way each time or it won't group.
It MUST be held tightly into the pocket of the shoulder, and keeping my elbow held high helps define that pocket.
I don't shoot it off the bench. Prone is a no go too. I do a lot of military style sitting and off hand shooting. Both of these positions allow me to move with the recoil.
My 45-70 is not my hardest kicking levergun. A 5.5 pound Rossi 92 with the carbine buttplate, in .45 Colt and stoked with Paco Kelly loads takes the prize in that department. My skinny self can do the reed in the wind act, but a friend with almost twice the body mass damn near cried when he shot that gun. His body was doing the immoveable object impersonation, and that little carbine buttplate was turning his fat layer into its own version of sorbothane.