I slugged the barrels of my revolvers

[seetrout]

I think this is the right page for this thread.

What does anyone here think about this.

I slugged my .357 and my .454. I just used some plain stick on WW's and beagled my molds to make them cast fat.

I think the .357 is perfect but it also explains why I get leading when I try to push the velocity. I'm afraid the .454 might be stuck with Jackets or I'll need to get the chambers opened up .001".

Anyway the results.

.357

Bore - .3575 Cylinders - .3585 - .3585 - .3582 - .3585 - .3587 - .3582 - .3585

My .357 slugs are sized at .3581 to .3582. I'm thinking that's just a tad small when I start upping the velocity. I have some that I cast out of straight Lino which sprang back a bit larger after sizing and I dipped them instead of tumbling for lube to try. They drop at .3600 to .3602 so I should be able to just shoot them as cast.


.454

Bore - .4535 2nd try .4532 but I didn't relube the bore and It was harder to push through. Cylinders - .4531 - .4534 - .4530 - .4528 - .4533

I haven't actually shot any cast through the .454 yet, I'm still working on my stash of bought slugs, but was thinking of getting the Lee 300gr and having the GC cut out of the mold.

Doug

[44magLeo]

I have found that sizing to chamber mouth size works better than barrel size. Size to barrel size as the cartridge fires the boolit sizes up to match the chamber mouths then gets sized back down to bore size.
Size to chamber mouth size and save a step.
On the 357 things look ok. On the 454 the chambers are a bit tight. Maybe a good gunsmith can open them up to a few thousandths over bore size. like .4537 or .4538.
Leo

[MtGun44]

Start at throat diameter or +.001. If that doesn't work well,sometimes +.002 works better.

The ideal is throats just a bit larger than groove diameter, steady stepping down of the
diameter as you go forward. Your .357 sounds great. Try .358 Keith design like 358429
or the Lyman 359477, or RCBS 38-150-SWC (old molds are marked 38-150-K) or Lee
358-158-RF with NRA 50-50 lube, air cooled wheel wts, NOT water dropped. Too hard
can be an issue. I shoot as soft as 8 BHN of the mentioned designs at full .357 Mag
velocities with H110 without leading and good accuracy. Start soft and only add hardness
to solve a particular problem like accuracy deterioration as you push the boolit faster.

The .454 is a bit questionable, but may be OK, maybe not. If it shoots OK, no problem
but if it is inaccurate or leads in the first part of the barrel, you may need to have the
throats opened up by about .001. I'd sure wait and spend a bunch of time trying other
things before reaming. No question that some guns require reaming, but I think some folks
get too quick to modify (irreversibly) a gun when just working on the load (diameter and
design of boolit, and lube ) may solve it.

Bill

[seetrout]

Thanks guys.

At the moment this is mostly about my .357

For clarification I am using WW+1% tin as my alloy and water drop everything for convenience. I use Recluse' 45/45/10 lube formula. This lube and alloy works great with no leading in 2 .40 S&W's, 2 .45 acp's and my .357 shooting .38's and .357's up to about 1050fps. I can load any of the above down as low as I want to go without leading issues.

I can load the .38's to +P levels, ie 158gr Lee round flat. 162gr as cast at 900fps using Universal clays. Same bullet & powder in .357 mag case to 1050fps with no problem. Then I switch to H110 to try and get 'real' .357 performance out of it and that's where my problems start. I can get 1050fps with a starting load of H110 and it's OK, but as soon as I start to increase the powder charge and the velocity it starts leading up the barrel...badly...which is why I'm thinking it has to do with the size of my bullets rather than the alloy. At about 16 to 18 BHN, give or take, water quenched WW's should be plenty hard.

It could be lube failure, maybe I should give the bullets 2 coats instead of 1 after sizing. I'm still thinking that the best, first, remedy should be trying the bullets as cast. Does anybody think that shooting my bullets, at .0017" over cylinder throat and .0026" over groove diameter (average) as cast poses a risk? Or am I somehow on the wrong track?

I don't want to be one of those morons that gets an idea in his head and can't take good advice, but neither do I want to start chasing down the wrong path because I've forgotten to provide some critical piece of information.

Doug

[canyon-ghost]

http://www.cylindersmith.com/

He likes it insured to $200 just under the limit to sign to get it.

After a few cleanings, his work looks real good. Had him do my 41 mag Blackhawk.

[Three44s]

WW plus 1% tin and water dropping is getting a bit harder than revo's generally need.

That said, a harder alloy is usually the ticket as you elevate fps and pressures. If you were overly hard, you would not be seeing good performance at lower velocities though.

My guess is that you need to look at your lube first. Tumble lube and high performance are not the ticket most of the time. I like TL but for plinkers. Your good performance at lower levels in your .357 and your loads in .40 and .45 are just that ..... plinkers.

I say look at your lube ........... double TL applications will get you some relief but my guess is that it's only a fleeting add to your velocity capability. Bottom line: Your lube needs a new gig for high performance not just a doubling up.

Three 44s

[462]

I venture that your leading is caused by either insufficient or the wrong type of lube.

For what it's worth, my .357 Blackhawk is lead-free using Lee's 358-158 RF cast of an air-cooled alloy of 2 parts wheel weights to one part lead, and the maximum published load of W-296/H110.

[Harter66]

I've a Sec 6 and a 1894CB in 357/38 I shoot w/358-158RFs and 358-150SWCs. I haven't shot any H110 in them as I'm getting my top accuracy in the Sec 6 w/Unique and Darrs lube a little rich on STP . These loads also shoot very well in the rifle w/o leading in the 18" bbl vs the 6" bbl . My alloy is just WDWW . I shoot them as cast at .360. I had to loosen up 1 chamber on the Sec 6 as it was exactly groove size . It didn't lead but was causing a flyier ,about a foot out at 50 yd .

My 7 1/2 in Black Hawk in 45 Colts doesn't seem to care how hard or soft the alloy is. I shoot 452-255RFs and 45-200SWCs in it as cast from jacketed range scrap cores ,50-50 WW/1-20,it just doesn't care. The throats are .454-4535+- w/a .452 groove. I've pushed both the cores and 50-50 to almost 1200fps w/o leading w/the 255 RF w/ both Unique and H110. Same lube as the 357/38s. Now if I could just keep that base pin in........

I think I often hear something to the effect of "the boolits not too big if it chambers easy",and "18-30,000 psi will swage that lead boolit right down to groove size".

[leadman]

You may want to pull a boolit from a loaded round to check for your boolit being sized down when loaded.
I also have run the Lee 158gr RFN to over 1,600 fps in a Marlin microgroove barrel with no leading. These boolits were sized to .359".

If you buy a mold for the 454 I would leave the gas check shank alone as you will probably need it. If it leads with a gas check boolit at sane velocities then get the cylinder opened up.

[williamwaco]

You may want to pull a boolit from a loaded round to check for your boolit being sized down when loaded.




DITTO!

Also. Before you spend any money!

Try tumbling them twice in straight LLA, or dip them if you prefer. I don't like dipping because it wastes too much lube.



I regularly push them to 1300 in a S&W M19 and to 1600 in a rifle with no problems. I size to .357 or .358. and can tell no difference in any of my handguns regardless of bore/cylinder measurements.

There is a noticable increase in leading at .356 in all my revolvers. Don't notice it in my Thompson Center but it slugs .3565 and that is exactly the diameter of the bullets sized in my .356 sizing die.

Shooting them as cast may be a problem. I find that .38's loaded as cast are so large in diameter that about one in six will not enter the chamber.


No lube, tumbled once, tumbled twice


.

[seetrout]

I don't use the Lee FCD, but I will pull a bullet and check. I will also try a third coat of lube. The ones I have were tumbled, sized and tumbled again, another coat is easy. I want to try as cast but will only load one cylinder full to start in case there are chambering problems. If all else fails maybe I'll order up some carnuba red from Lars.

Thanks guys,
Give me a week to get my act together and test things out and I'll post an update. Any other suggestions are also welcome. Maybe I can polish out my sizing die half a thou or so?

Doug

[prs]

MTGUN44 gave such good advice at the start and then crawfished. If the cylinder thoats of your revolver are significantly smaller than groove diameter of your barrel, you will not achieve optimal lead boolit success with even the perfect loading; but that is just my opinion based upon limited experience with only 3 Ruger revolvers. I recommend a boolit to cylinder thoat fit that is a good snug resistance fit, and that 1 or 2 thous larger than barrel groove diameter.

prs