Beginner here

[SmokinBill]

My first Muzzle loader is on layaway and I cant wait to get started but spending the time getting information.

I bought a Thompson Contender Encore 50 Cal. Magnum. I walked in the store with no money and it was an offer I couldn't refuse so it's on layaway till I can pick it up and shoot it (next month). I've been considering getting into muzzle loading so here I go.

Reading the book that comes with the gun, the load data states pellets and black powder; I'm getting the impression here that pellets aren't as good as black powder, is that true and why?

The load data in the book is also sabot loads and again I see a lot of complaining about sabots here; what is the alternative; what can I shoot out of that gun? Some of the loads are as heavy as 400 grain bullets traveling at 1800 fps; that's a lot of power. Can I do that without a sabot?

Finally, I purchased this as a cheaper replacement for a .454 Casull which was going to be my 300 yard challenge. Many people who know me say I need to quit buying single caliber guns and get a Thompson Contender and buy barrels. I'm a tack driving shooter so I'm convinced they are right so my first challenge is a 300 yard 50 Cal. muzzle loader target with a respectable group.

I also see getting into a muzzle loader as an opportunity to start casting my own projectiles; so this is a great place to ask questions. I assume if I shoot ball bullets, alloy isn't a big deal, what about more conventional style bullet projectiles?

I'm listening....

[excess650]

That Encore should be 1--28" twist, so will be better suited for conicals or sabots than patched round balls.

Go find a container of Blackhorn 209, 209 shotshell primers, and a box of 250gr TC Shockwaves. Try 100gr and 110gr VOLUME charges. With BH209 there is no wiping between shots and cleanup is with nitro solvent.

Blackpowder and substitutes are a different game. I'm sure that Encore will shoot well with Shockwaves and BP, but you'll need to run a damp patch between shots.

Yoou will need a milder primer for any combination that loads easily. The reason is because the primer can move the projectile prior to the powder igniting properly and causing erratic ignition and erratic accuracy.

[SmokinBill]

That Encore should be 1--28" twist, so will be better suited for conicals or sabots than patched round balls.

Go find a container of Blackhorn 209, 209 shotshell primers, and a box of 250gr TC Shockwaves. Try 100gr and 110gr VOLUME charges. With BH209 there is no wiping between shots and cleanup is with nitro solvent.

Blackpowder and substitutes are a different game. I'm sure that Encore will shoot well with Shockwaves and BP, but you'll need to run a damp patch between shots.

Yoou will need a milder primer for any combination that loads easily. The reason is because the primer can move the projectile prior to the powder igniting properly and causing erratic ignition and erratic accuracy.

Thanks a million; conicals, is that something I can be casting? And I assume a 209 primer is mild enough as you say?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

if you cast for a 45 .452 or a 44 .430 try them in a harvester sabot
you dont need to lube or use a C/G with a sabot i like to use 80gr
of pyrodex and a 240gr cast boolit in my encore tack driver at 75 yards
yes it will kill a deer :-P

[excess650]

Thanks a million; conicals, is that something I can be casting? And I assume a 209 primer is mild enough as you say?

Standard 209 primers may cause issues with loosely seated projectiles. There are "blackpowder 209 primers" for use with other than BH209.

There are 50cal conicals available whether they be Powerbelts, Hornady Great Plains, TC Maxi-ball and Maxi-hunter, or you can cast your own. There are some guys here who use .475 boolits and patch them up to size.

[45r]

I have a encore and if I was to go out and get something that I think would work well right off the bat I'd get some harvester scorpion 300 or 260 PT gold packs,CCI 209 or fed 209A primers and some Blackhorn 209.I'd start at 110 grains by volume which equals 77 grains by weight.If the recoil bothers you go lower.I'm using the harvester Crush Rib sabots with 250 flex Tips and the accuracy is very good uaing 110 grains volume BH 209.I previuosly used hornady 45 cal 300grain SST/ML with 4 petal mmp-12 sabots that measured .507,they are tight fitting and the accuracy was very good using 110 grains by volume Triple 7 but had to clean after every shot using rubbing alcohol to keep crud ring gone.I'll be using BH209 from now on,its works and not swabbing between shots is so much more fun.After 3 shots I was shooting ragged hole groups.Cleaning up with hoppes # 9 is easier also.If you want to spend some money on some very fancy stuff that shoot great go to the Parker web site,they have everything from conicals,hydra-cons to super accurate at long range stuff like their 275 BE and other saboted bullets.

[Crawdaddy]

Congratulations on your new gun. You chose an excellent model. There is no reason you cannot get excellent results with sabots. Harvesters should serve you well. Don't get disappointed if one brand doesn't give you the results you want. Experiment with different charges, bullets and bullet weights.

IMO Blackhorn 209 is the best powder on the market and it eliminates the need for swabbing between shots.

300 yard shots with a muzzleloader is going to be a challenge but anything is possible. I limit my to a max of 150 or so.

Good luck.

[SmokinBill]

Thank you all; I am cutting and pasting the information and adding stuff to my wish list from your recommendations. One thing that's obvious, black powder shooting isn't cheap but it will be fun and I wont be ripping off a double stack magazine of rounds in a matter of seconds.

Hey one other question, I plan to get a .223, 15" barrel for it to shoot at 300 yard too. Who do you guys like for a good quality, accurate bull barrel?

[quilbilly]

Congratulations on your new Encore. The others are right about it being designed mostly for conicals or sabot but after a lot of years with various T/C products, I have found that each barrel has a distinct personality. I have been pleasantly surprised on several occasions when a barrel for conicals has shot quite well with patched round ball in front of the right loads (4" or less groups at 100m). PRB is a very economical way to shoot and it is great on deer.
As for the 223, I have found that the muzzle crack of those fast little bullets to be quite unpleasant with that short a barrel. You may end up downloading them a bit. I recently started casting 223 boolits for the T/C barrel and downloaded accordingly. With Unique powder it is now fun to take into the field without having to wear ear protection to take the shot. The mv is 1800 with the 53 gr boolits and it works just fine on coyote size game.

[tomme boy]

You are supposed to use a mag primer with Blackhorn.

Here is a link.
http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/ignition-guidelines/

300yds is really going to be pushing it.

[SmokinBill]

Again thanks for the heads ups....

quilbilly recoil wont be an issue as I'm not a hunter and this gun is the replacement for a .454 Casull which is loaded with duplex and triplex magnum loads to expedite total powder burns getting the max thrust; loads that more than fill the case, vibrated down then a compression loaded. I figure it's cheaper to buy a frame that I can change guns with a barrel purchase than keep buying 1,000 to 1800 dollar guns one each. So, so long as I can hit the egg at 140 feet off hand and take home a ham, or cut a card at 25 yards I'm happy.

tomme boy a challenge is what I'm looking for; my first was hitting a target at 300 yards with a Ruger 10/22 and I did. Those ballistics were, a 108" drop between 100 and 300 yards and a 1 MPH cross wind moves the point of impact 4 feet and I still hit it.

This was cut at 25 yards with the Ruger 10/22, one shot:

http://inlinethumb63.webshots.com/46846/2241524700101870711S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2241524700101870711biEQWF)

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Hey one other question, I plan to get a .223, 15" barrel for it to shoot at 300 yard too. Who do you guys like for a good quality, accurate bull barrel?[/QUOTE]

i would look in to a barrel made by MGM match grade machin for a barrel
say a full bull in 308 win i had a 14" 223 for my contender just did not like it in a short
barrel it was just to LOUD and the one that i had just did not shoot well for me
the 308 win that i have shoots great and loves cast boolits
i have a 17" full bull set up as a pistol
good luck

[SmokinBill]

Hey one other question, I plan to get a .223, 15" barrel for it to shoot at 300 yard too. Who do you guys like for a good quality, accurate bull barrel?

i would look in to a barrel made by MGM match grade machin for a barrel
say a full bull in 308 win i had a 14" 223 for my contender just did not like it in a short
barrel it was just to LOUD and the one that i had just did not shoot well for me
the 308 win that i have shoots great and loves cast boolits
i have a 17" full bull set up as a pistol
good luck[/QUOTE]

Thanks but when I Google MGM I get Grand Hotel and the movie maker. Could we spell it out please?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i would look in to a barrel made by MGM match grade machin for a barrel
say a full bull in 308 win i had a 14" 223 for my contender just did not like it in a short
barrel it was just to LOUD and the one that i had just did not shoot well for me
the 308 win that i have shoots great and loves cast boolits
i have a 17" full bull set up as a pistol
good luck

Thanks but when I Google MGM I get Grand Hotel and the movie maker. Could we spell it out please?[/QUOTE]


Match Grade Machin

[SmokinBill]

That's better, thanks.

[Odinbreaker]

I cast a 430 300 grain bullet from a Lee mould I shoot with green sabot 105 gr of Blackhorn. I than
sub a 300 gr Hornady 300 gr xtp I buy in a box of 50.. 2 inches at 100 yds in my two encore. Thes are very reasonable to shoot buy you blackhorn in 5 lb jug cheaper that way. I use montana bore cleaner for the bore.. Be sure and keep the breechplug clean.