short 45-70 brass

[wgr]

im thinking about shorting some 45-70 brass by 3/16 of an inch. this is to make it legal in indiana deer season. my question is how will the affect the powder charge. will i need to reduce it and how much? im not looking for hot loads. thinks bill

[Potsy]

I knocked about a .10" off my brass so I could use a RD-.460-350 with my short throated #1.
Of course, that's a lot less than 3/16", and absolute top end in that #1 is more than I really want anyhow. Right now I'm hitting 2,000fps with 55grn 3031.
FWIW.

What kind of rifle are you shooting?

[NickSS]

What are you shooting it in? Actually the results would be similar to shooting a 35-70 in a 45-90 chamber which contrary to what I have read works just fine in the two rifles I tried it in. As for loads I would reduce the load by the amount of case capacity that you are loosing but if you are shooting a long bullet which in a 45-70 would have about half an inch in the case just seat it out to its original length and leave some lube grooves showing and then all you need to do is use the same powder charge you use now as the powder chamber would be the same size.

[wgr]

im shooting it in a h & r buffalo classic

[Hang Fire]

I had a Win Model 1886 in 45-90, but shot 45-70 with the boolit seated out and got good accuracy with no problems. What you are suggesting would not be much different.

[John Taylor]

What your talking about is shooting a 45-60 in a 45-70 chamber. 45-60 has a case length of 1.890" instead of the 2.100" of the 45-70. . Be like shooting a 22 short in a long rifle chamber.
The only load I have listed is 25 grains of 4198 with a 300 grain bullet. This load is intended for use in the 1876 Winchester.

[Maven]

wgr, Hornady .45-70 brass for some reason is measurably shorter than 2.10". Maybe that's a place to start?

[wgr]

wgr, Hornady .45-70 brass for some reason is measurably shorter than 2.10". Maybe that's a place to start?

yes i been trying to find some thinks

[oldgeezershooter]

I had to shorten some to shoot Hornadys "Leverevolution" bullets.

[Maven]

I had to shorten some to shoot Hornadys "Leverevolution" bullets.

That must be why the Hornady brass is so short. How else could they use a long[er] "spitzer" type and still not exceed 2.55" OAL for the .45-70?

[Dan Cash]

Try Starline. Most of their .45-70 brass is well under2.0 inch, more on the order of 1.85.

[Tatume]

If you seat your bullets out you can achieve the same combustion volume, and have exactly the same ballistics. The shortened case might expose one of your lube grooves, so just be careful to keep your ammo clean.

[wgr]

well i dont think ill use good brass. i have some that has neck damage and small splits

[John Taylor]

Looks like the 45-50 Peabody would work at 1.56", wonder where to get the gun and ammo. Is there any reason for having a law that limits the case length?

[wgr]

Looks like the 45-50 Peabody would work at 1.56", wonder where to get the gun and ammo. Is there any reason for having a law that limits the case length?

have to ask the law makers about the limits on case length. its really nuts i mean you can use a 30-06 in a pistol. i would like to see all stright wall cases legal

[Baron von Trollwhack]

When you figure out the case length you want to use to be legal, drop down to 300/350 grain cast boolits of the correct diameter, load those cut downs with necksizing and seating in a 45 colt dies and look to 45-60 load data for guidance. A short case to meet those reg specs will almost make 45-70 light bullet specs in a Marlin lever.

Figure out the usable ffg case volume in grains and then figure 29% of that will be a IMR 4198 load, as a starter. That's the Donnelly formula.

BvT

[Gtek]

The Leverevolution was shortened becuase the gummy tips were pushing COAL just a little to much for reliable feed. They also have short for the 450 Marlin. The flat nose 405 from Hornady are standard length. If you have some tired front ends on standard lentgh would be the perfect dnor for shorties. Gtek

[John Boy]

Try Starline. Most of their .45-70 brass is well under2.0 inch, more on the order of 1.85.Dan, do you have support to back up your post because I shoot Starline 45-70 brass exclusively, over 1000+ rounds annually? You might want to read this because your numbers are in left field - wrong ...
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11848

Even with work hardened Starline brass after many reloads, I have never had a case shorter than 2.093. Then I use a KAL-MAX stretcher to lengthen them back up to 2.10, anneal them and then start over again
And 45-70 SAMMI maximum length is 2.10 not 2.0

[tomme boy]

The 45 colts from Hornady are short also. 1.23"

[TXGunNut]

Looks like I'll never go hunting in Indiana, thanks for reminding me how good we have it in Texas. I have 5 or 6 guns that are legal in IN but I've never seriously considered most of them as hunting firearms. Odd.

[mazo kid]

im thinking about shorting some 45-70 brass by 3/16 of an inch. this is to make it legal in indiana deer season. my question is how will the affect the powder charge. will i need to reduce it and how much? im not looking for hot loads. thinks bill

What is the legal length to make 45-70 cartridge brass usable? I don't understand..... and 30-30 not legal?!

Looks like the 45-50 Peabody would work at 1.56", wonder where to get the gun and ammo. Is there any reason for having a law that limits the case length?
John, I have a side hammer Peabody 45-50 rifle, but I make my brass for it out of 50-70 brass. Why wouldn't a 50-70 rifle work in Indiana? It's ~1.70".

[bigted]

guess i dont really understand what you ask...you want to shorten your 45-70 cases so the coal is under what the game book allows correct? so here is the rub i see;:;

any lawman i ever ran across would look at what is scribed on the barrel/action of the gun in question and issue a ticket based on what was imprinted on this rifle. if it reads 45-70 ...even tho you have shortened the case to fall under the lawfull spec....the lawman will not care about your home made ...albeit lawfull final cartridge. does this make sense?

and what the heck kinda state would outlaw the good old 45-70 for hunting with in the first place?

[montana_charlie]

and what the heck kinda state would outlaw the good old 45-70 for hunting with in the first place?
The kind of state where the legal RIFLE(?) cartridges are:
.357 Magnum
.38-40 Winchester
.41 Magnum
.41 Special
.44 Magnum
.44 Special
.44-40 Winchester

I mean, Come On! 38-40 but not 30-30?

It seems like the caliber requirements are set up to provide the chance that a shot deer can get away and HEAL UP.

CM

[white eagle]

im thinking about shorting some 45-70 brass by 3/16 of an inch. this is to make it legal in indiana deer season. my question is how will the affect the powder charge. will i need to reduce it and how much? im not looking for hot loads. thinks bill

there must be a long line at the brass checking station ;-)

[TCLouis]

Since 45-70 is excluded, why not 357 Mag, or better yet the Max?

[nanuk]

I wonder about the legality of using a "Firearm" that is capable for fireing a longer than legal round

ie// 45/70 unaltered, but you carry the shortened round.

What would stop you from using full length 45/70's and carrying an empty shortened one to show if asked?

I don't get it.... the law is poorly drafted.
obviously by someone with ZERO knowledge on firearms

[Red River Rick]

.................I don't get it.... the law is poorly drafted.
obviously by someone with ZERO knowledge on firearms

Nanuk:

Maybe the same person who helped draft the hunting laws in Indiana help out with the hunting laws in Saskatchewan!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't use anything smaller than .25 cal for deer hunting in SK, ie; 25-20 & 32-20 are legal. But .243, 22-250, .222 or .223 are illegal.................yes, no?

RRR

[CoalHog]

Have you thought about loctiting a 45/70 brass into your rifle and turning it into a muzzleloader with removable breech plug?

[nanuk]

RRR: the regs say .23 cal or larger

so the .234 Sisk is legal as are all larger than that.

but you have to use a centerfire, so a large caliber RF is not legal

they supposedly did this to weed out the CF .22's

In one conversation with a C.O. he said he wished you could use ANY CF rifle, as he loved the .17Rem and would use that for Whitetail deer! (Go figure!)

the MOST interesting thing is, according to Sask Regs, the term "Hunting" includes so much variables, that you would be breaking the law by using a camera and going into the forest to take pictures!

How the **** do you "Worry" a deer anyways???

[wgr]

Have you thought about loctiting a 45/70 brass into your rifle and turning it into a muzzleloader with removable breech plug?

dont need another muzzle loader. i was just asking about load data for a shorten case. i have guns to hunt with .but like most of us i wont to just because. and yes ,the law id not the best i mean the let you hunt with a ,410 shotgun so you know it sucks.

[wgr]

RRR: the regs say .23 cal or larger

so the .234 Sisk is legal as are all larger than that.

but you have to use a centerfire, so a large caliber RF is not legal

they supposedly did this to weed out the CF .22's

In one conversation with a C.O. he said he wished you could use ANY CF rifle, as he loved the .17Rem and would use that for Whitetail deer! (Go figure!)

the MOST interesting thing is, according to Sask Regs, the term "Hunting" includes so much variables, that you would be breaking the law by using a camera and going into the forest to take pictures!

How the **** do you "Worry" a deer anyways???

now come on you know you cant take pics. of deer without their permission::lol:

[DIRT Farmer]

The idea is to restrict the range of a rifle. One of our local COs set up his 45-70 with 1,6 long cartridges to use but the law states no taper IE the 44-40 is a no go in strict interpation. Some of those who have posted don't know the population densiuty here.
The point I don't understand is allowing the quote "modern muzzle loaders" which if a knowlagble shooter was to set up would have the range of any big bore blackpowder cartridge gun.
I have shot one deer over 100 yds using a big round ball. the other 30 or so have been inside of 50 yards some much less. A lot of the places I hunt the4 maxrange is 25 to 30 yards

[725]

Question: If you shorten .45-70 brass to some legal size, the case will still have the .45-70 head stamp. Do you think your fish police will look beyond the head stamp and actually (1) listen to your explanation, or (2) measure the case to confirm conformity vis-a-vis the H&R .45-70 Buffalo Classic you will have in your hand?