38/55

[rmcc]

Is straight wheel weight hard enough for the 38/55 without gas checks? I plan on water quenching. They are for a Win 94 rifle.

Thanks
Rich

[bearcove]

Size is going to be most important. Could be 376-382. 50/50 unquenched would probably work if it fits. What weight/vel?

[marvelshooter]

I am by no means an expert on this subject but here is my two cents. I am casting bullets for my 38-55 in a plain base Lee mold using range lead with just enough tin added to get good fill out and loading them as cast at .381 diameter. I am getting good results with what I would consider a very soft bullet. I was having trouble with some hard cast .378 diameter bullets tumbling and key holing. I asked for help on this forum and learned that larger and softer sometimes works well in the 38-55. It did for me. Good luck -Dan

[hunter64]

I am by no means an expert on this subject but here is my two cents. I am casting bullets for my 38-55 in a plain base Lee mold using range lead with just enough tin added to get good fill out and loading them as cast at .381 diameter. I am getting good results with what I would consider a very soft bullet. I was having trouble with some hard cast .378 diameter bullets tumbling and key holing. I asked for help on this forum and learned that larger and softer sometimes works well in the 38-55. It did for me. Good luck -Dan

What brass are you using for your Win 94? I also need a .381 bullet to work correctly but the brass I have will not chamber correctly with such a fat bullet. I have heard that starlines brass is thinner and will allow a fatter bullet to work.

[oneokie]

What brass are you using for your Win 94? I also need a .381 bullet to work correctly but the brass I have will not chamber correctly with such a fat bullet. I have heard that starlines brass is thinner and will allow a fatter bullet to work.

I use the Starline 2.125" brass with .381" boolits and have no chambering issues.

[williamwaco]

Is straight wheel weight hard enough for the 38/55 without gas checks? I plan on water quenching. They are for a Win 94 rifle.

Thanks
Rich



I have the Lee and two Lyman molds for the .38-55 all are plain base. I use range lead hardned with either wheel weights or linotype to a BNH of around 12.

Air cooled wheel weights are much harder than necessary for the .38-55.

Hunting with water dropped wheel weights would be like using full Metal Jackets.

For hunting, I would recommend you cut your wheel weights with about 20% soft lead and add about 2% tin.

FIT is a real problem with the .38-55. Mine has a groove diameter of a little over .375. Some of the older ones are as large as .381. You really need to know your bore and groove diameter before ordering a sizing die.

By the way - We are talking about clip-on wheel weights here. Not the stick-ons.



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[NickSS]

You need to know your bore diameter and get a bullet larger than it by 1 or 2 thousandths. If your rifle is an old one like mine you may need a fat bullet but some of the more recent ones come in at .377 like they should. I shoot bullet sized to .379 in all 4 of my 38-55s and they work fine but I do not drive them faster than BP velocities. Still an alloy of 50-50 WW and soft lead unquenched shoot work up to about 1600 fps which is plenty for deer hunting. Actually using 40-1 alloy works really well for deer with BP driving the bullet.

[Old Goat Keeper]

For a long time they cast boolits for the 38-55 and other calibers BEFORE there was wheel weight/linotype/lyman #2 and such and it worked very well. fit your boolit to the throat and barrel and keep your velocities under control and you will have no problems.

T-o-m

[rmcc]

Thanks guys! I am loading to BP loads and using a .379 Lee mold. I plan on using Alox as they come out of the mold. In the past they have run right at .379 with no leading problems so far. I just wanted something to plink with and do double duty as a brush gun for deer.


Rich

[marvelshooter]

What brass are you using for your Win 94? I also need a .381 bullet to work correctly but the brass I have will not chamber correctly with such a fat bullet. I have heard that starlines brass is thinner and will allow a fatter bullet to work.

I am using fire formed R-P 30-30 brass. I was getting ready to buy some Starline when I read how they have two lengths for 38-55 and realized a blown out 30-30 was just about the same length as the short one. I tried it and so far so good. There is info on this forum about the fire forming and if you like I will post how I did it.
Dan

[KirkD]

I've done a lot of shooting with a plain base, soft cast (10 BHN measured) bullet in my 38-55. I got best results with a medium speed powder, especially SR4759 which bumped up the soft bullet to seal the throat and bore.

[451whitworth]

Starline brass neck wall thickness is .007" compared to Win. which is .010". I also shoot /load a .381" bullet in my Win 94 38-55. i had aquired a bunch of Win brass years ago and i had to turn down the the necks .0015" on my lathe so they would chamber.

[northmn]

I am using fire formed R-P 30-30 brass. I was getting ready to buy some Starline when I read how they have two lengths for 38-55 and realized a blown out 30-30 was just about the same length as the short one. I tried it and so far so good. There is info on this this forum about the fire forming and if you like I will post how I did it.
Dan
I tried that in my Marlin CB and it kind of worked. Once I got Staline (I bought the shorter ones) they still gave a little more case length and permitted the use of the Lee bullet in as cast condition, with my alloy about 380-381. As to alloy, I use about the 50-50 ww they talk about but with a touch of tin to fill out the mold and water drop them. You can soften the nose by putting the bullets in a pan of water witht he noses exposed and take a propane torch to them. I only do this to deer loads, the rest are just left as is. Only need to soften a few for deer hunting. I have been experimenting with card wads as kind of gas checks, between the bullet and powder with a load of 30-31 which leaves no air spaces and at least can say it may have potential. I have a hardware store 3/8 punch. I do not load really hot but am getting between 16-1700 fps with the Lee 250 grain bullet.

DP

[hunter64]

I finally got some starline brass, in Canada it is hard to find as only certain shops will have it and you cant buy brass across the border.

With the new starline brass I can finally chamber my .381 bullets with no problem. When I slugged the barrel it came out at .381 so in theory I should try .382 bullets.

I am going to try two things. Use the .381 bullets as is and make them out of 50% Lead and 50% WW air cooled. This should give me about 7-8 BHN and hopefully it will be soft enough to expand and no leading. I just want to push these at about 1600 fps and that is it.

Beagle the lee mold to get it to .382 and try and chamber those and if they chamber then see how they do at the range.

Any thoughts? This is a Winchester 94 made in 1895 which was my great grandfathers so I don't want to push it hard and just use it for short range deer next fall.

[northmn]

The early Winchesters in 38-55 may have been a black powder number. A lot of the problems you see with your loads could be eliminated with the use of 1-20 tin-lead and about 45 grains of 2f or 3f. Swiss BP is ideal but GOEX is fine. You would also need to get a good lube like SPG. BP will slug a bullet to the bore and works with undersized bullets. In my reading, Winchester did make a HV loading of about 1550 for the 38-55, and dropped it before WW2. The older guns are best left at the old factory load of about 1300 fps. Your 50% lead 50% WW would work with BP also or you could add solder to pure lead to make the 1-20 tin which was commonly used in the old rifles.

DP

[Nrut]

I finally got some starline brass, in Canada it is hard to find as only certain shops will have it and you cant buy brass across the border.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RaynerShine (sp) out of Saskatchewan used to carry Starline brass..
This fellow will import goodies for us:
http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/
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I am going to try two things. Use the .381 bullets as is and make them out of 50% Lead and 50% WW air cooled. This should give me about 7-8 BHN and hopefully it will be soft enough to expand and no leading. I just want to push these at about 1600 fps and that is it.
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Your 50/50 bullets will only remain at 7-8 bhn for a few days, and will stabilize some where around 12-14 bhn with in a month or two..
Anneal them and they should stay under 10 bhn for quite sometime


Any thoughts? This is a Winchester 94 made in 1895 which was my great grandfathers so I don't want to push it hard and just use it for short range deer next fall.
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Do a search on KirkD's posts as he has done a lot of work with the 38-55 in old Winchesters..
While you may want to run at BP vel. for what ever reason, I have several boxes of CIL Imperial 38-55 ammo 255grs..
It states on the back of the box that the ammo is loaded for 1600 fps and that if the rifle is sited in at 150 yards (yep that's right YARDS not meters) the bullet will strike 4" high at 75 yards and 8 1/2" low at 200 yards..
Lots of people think that you have to ***** foot around at BP velocity with the 38-55 which is fine if that's what you want to do..
But that is not requirement to be safe..
Just look at Trapdoor load data to get an idea of what can be done using smokeless in BP cartridges..
Another very good source for 38-55 load data is Ken Waters "Pet Loads"..


..........:-)

[hunter64]

nrut: Funny you should mention Henry, that is who I called to get the brass,lol.

I re-read Ken Waters article on the 38-55 from the book and he suggested 20 to 1 for the bullets so I adjusted it accordingly.

I am going to load some up and take them to the indoor range this weekend and see how they do.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Ten grains of Unique under that Lee boolit is quite accurate in many 38-55 rifles and will not strain it any. They guys at Marlin Owners shoot tht load at up to 1,000 yards at dingers with great success.

T-o-m

[hunter64]

Finally got a chance to go to the indoor range today that has a 50 yard rifle range. I thought I would try IMR3031 because I have always had luck with my 30-30's and my 32 Spec.

I started out with 28 grn of IMR3031, Lee bullet (50/50 and some tin) and Rem. primers. I worked up to 34 Grn with no pressure signs and just a hint of a lead streak about 1/2 down the 26" barrel. Best group was just under 1" for 5 shots which is more than I expected for a 50 yard group.

Here is a new one on me.

I made the bullets and let them sit for a week lubed and not sized, they all ran .381-.3815. I loaded them up and I tried them in the chamber and they were fine, I put them thru the mag to make sure they feed ok and no problems.

So I get to the range this morning and most of them were hard to chamber, I had to kind of push them in a bit to close the bolt/lever. So somehow in the week that they were loaded and the extra couple of weeks before I could get to the range they expanded? Never had this happen before.