Shooting at Gun Range

[Blacksmith]

A retired Air Force veteran was shot in the head while leaving the gun range he had been shooting at and his guns were stolen.

"About 3 days ago, in Eastern Oklahoma, a retired Air Force veteran was leaving a shooting range when two men approached him and shot him in the head and knee. They took his guns and left him for dead. But he is a tough old guy and was able to use his cell phone to call for help. He is in bad shape in the hospital and has only been able to tell them that it was two guys that did it. The guns were a Mitchell Mausser, a Ruger rifle and two S&W pistols. They also took his range cart. I do not have a better description of the guns, but if you see anything call the OSBI. If they get by with this, one of us may be next. "

Here is a news article about it included gun list and serial numbers:
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigators-search-for-weapons-stolen-in-wagoner-co.-shooting

Another paper:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/specialprojects/news/crimewatch/article.aspx?subjectid=450&articleid=20111126_11_A23_CUTLIN584041

Blacksmith

[contender1]

This kind of thing was how the criminals in Miami in 1986 got their guns. They'd go to a gun range, befriend the good old boys and borrow their guns to "try them out," and then kill the guys & steal the guns.

I hope this Vet recovers, and is able to identify the thugs in court. (Unless they get taken out during a crime.)

[P.K.]

Despicable....RPO$.

[P.K.]

Despicable....RPO$.

The last was "Reprehensable ***...." my verbage is wrong I know. Sue me.

[PatMarlin]

Oh my lord. Pray he fully recovers and they hang the SOB's. Got to be on guard 24 hours a day in this sorry world today.

[gray wolf]

I don't mind a little Coffee on my key board,
but this kind of $$$hit makes me want to throw up.
I firmly believe the world has finally gone in the crapper.
I have been watching things for some time now and things are down hill all the way.
No one deserves this kind of treatment, no one.
Look at the folks on this forum,
kind, giving, willing to help and always there if someone is in need.
It is so hard to conceive there is another side of people.
( but there is, and we better watch our six all the time )
Situational awareness has got to be part of every day life.
The Scum is out there and it is breeding.

Sam in Maine---------- and dammmmm mad and a little disgusted.

[Trey45]

The next time some whiney little puke cries at me and asks "Why do you carry a gun" I'm going to show them this thread. This stuff angers me to no end. Vermin walking the street looking for another victim. Sam is 100% right, Situational awareness has to be part of every day life, and it's a damn shame it's gotten to this point.

[Harter66]

1st thoughts and prayers for a speedy full recovery of the Vet and the capture and convition of those (expitive spared)punks .

Thank God I live so far out of the real world .

I've read more than once "The suspect was found off_______________rd ,behind ____________ w/a self inflicted gun soht to the head". Ok,well,that was 30 yrs ago but was the end solution was the same in at least 3 cases . Our region has a tiny murder rate.

Its a darn shame when you have to look over your shoulder all the time,I think it has escalated at least 2 fold in the last year . If I were a gambler I'd bet even odds today that the "occupy movment" is a prelude to civil disobedience Nat'l Gaurd call ups and an ultimate effort to prompt marshall law in time to suspend elections. The gang /drug trade,etc is just the cake on the frosting.

(Restoring order to my CT centers and stepping down off the rage platform).

[P.K.]

More info:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/specialprojects/news/crimewatch/article.aspx?subjectid=450&articleid=20111127_11_A24_CUTLIN755788

Police release list of items stolen from gun range shooting victim





SHOT
Kenneth Payne: He was shot at the Fort Gibson Wildlife Management Area.
By SUSAN HYLTON World Staff Writer
Published: 11/27/2011 2:37 AM
Last Modified: 11/27/2011 4:27 AM



Police have released a list of firearms belonging to a man who was shot multiple times at a Wagoner County gun range Thursday morning.


Kenneth Payne, 73, was shot while he was sighting several guns at the Fort Gibson Wildlife Management Area shooting range, according to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation

The assailants are believed to have fled with the following items belonging to Payne:

•Cabela's gun buggy.


•Mitchell Black lightning .22 magnum rifle, serial No. MBL02072.


•Smith and Wesson 9 mm pistol, Model #SW-9UE, serial No. RBD7189.


•Smith and Wesson 9 mm pistol, Model #5940, serial No. TC58060.


•Ruger Mini-30, 7.62 caliber, serial No. 581-58511.


Anyone with information about the shooting is asked to call the OSBI at 800-522-8017 or the Wagoner County Sheriff's Department at 918-485-3124.

Payne, who lived a few miles away, was shot and left for dead about 7:30 a.m., according to the OSBI. He was able to get to a cell phone and call a family member for help.

[JIMinPHX]

This kind of thing was how the criminals in Miami in 1986 got their guns. They'd go to a gun range, befriend the good old boys and borrow their guns to "try them out," and then kill the guys & steal the guns.

Another board member & I were shooting on some open land down on the south side of town about 6 or 8 months ago when a few other people showed up & started to chum up to us. We didn't discuss it until later, but we both had a funny feeling about the other folks that showed up. We remained courteous to them without being overly friendly. We both made sure that neither of us was ever without ammo in at least one gun that was under our direct control. Only one of us shot at a time. Eventually, they packed up & left. We did the same shortly thereafter.

Always be aware of your surroundings, especially when you are armed. A gun is a powerful tool. It can be used for you, or against you. It's important to maintain control.

[SSGOldfart]

Hope he recovers and they get the SOB's this shows another reason for Conceald Carry@ least every vet. should have one,even Air-force.,:kidding:

[Blacksmith]

I resemble that remark.

Blacksmith (Former USAF):bigsmyl2:

[PatMarlin]

You don't want to think about this kind of stuff but you just have to. Us evil gun owners, kind and sharing and want to think the best of people.

I keep my Sig holstered, cocked and locked when I'm shooting.

One good thing about growing up around thieves in the City. Keeps you on guard from a young age.

[tomme boy]

I have people ask me all the time when they come to my place. "Why are you carring that in your house?" I have a gun on me all the time, or within reach. ALWAYS! This is why right here.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Angel ?

[Reload3006]

I can certainly see this happening in MO we have several unsupervised Conservation area ranges. Yes at them you can carry cocked and locked. But at the supervised ranges you wouldn't be able to because of range rules. I rarely shoot at any range anymore because I own a small farm now and shoot there at my own range.
This really sucks because of what the antis can do with it but as we all know a gun is just a tool that some can use for good and others use for bad. If they didnt have a gun they would use something else ..JMO

[Bret4207]

Interesting point Shawn. We all cry foul with "Gun Free School Zones", etc., but the general consensus is that no loaded guns should be on the range beyond the firing line. Maybe it's time to rethink that. Either we do it because we know sooner or later an idiot will cause and accident or because it's a control issue. Either way it's something we have to rethink.

Thoughts and prayers to this injured vet. That's just animals preying on the unsuspecting. Hope they get caught ASAP.

[10x]

My prayers and sympathy to this gentleman and his family.
Just one more reason why violent people should go to jail until they are rehabilitated and why honest citizens should be allowed CCW to defend themselves.

[Thin Man]

10X,

Your post about thugs going to jail/prison to be rehabilitated brings up another thought. Many years ago I was introduced to the concept of "social habilitation." The basis of this theory is that some people go through their early years without ever being exposed to society's values and norms. They raise themselves on the streets, in front of the TV , in the video arcades, etc., and are never instilled with the basics of responsibility and accountability. They either raised themselves or were "jerked up" by their "parents" and learned only to survive even at the expense of others. They were never a part of responsible society and did not buy into the polite world's respect for other people or their property. They did their thing, got into trouble and went to jail where they got their art perfected. The nasty side of this concept is that there are a LOT of these people in the world. Fast forward to the mindset of the thugs who shot the veteran and took his firearms.

The social habilitation concept viewed these predators as outsiders of society who never had been introduced to responsible behavior. They could not be RE-habilitated since they did not have these values in their past, thus nothing to point toward for a return visit. This changed the direction of jail and prison administrators for the type of programs they forced on their populations. Sounds good, but the end result left much to be desired. Recividism rates did not slow or decrease. It seemed that the violators made their own decisions and acted out their own desires despite all that was done for and to them.

Bottom line, a thug will always be a thug. Yes, some do slow down or change their actions, but this is caused mostly by their own change of goals - wanting to stay out of lock-down, avoid detection, different type of activity, etc. I agree completely that we must remain constantly aware of our surroundings, our own actions, and stay ready to defeat any threat directed at ourselves and those we care for.


Thin Man

[10x]

10X,

Your post about thugs going to jail/prison to be rehabilitated brings up another thought. Many years ago I was introduced to the concept of "social habilitation."
snip

Thin Man

When social rehabilitation does not work then jail is the option.
when Social rehabilitation does not work and miscreants are loose in society self defense has to be an option.
You are right - you have to be wary of strangers - but I see folks loosing faith in the goodness of others in society - simply because the courts do not deal with criminals effectively. I live in Canada where the crime rate is way lower but the hug a thug policy is endangering the public and there are more criminals being released every day.

[blackthorn]

Well---I don't know for sure but I believe if you compare crime rates here in Canada with those in the US on a "per hundred thousand" basis there really aint much difference. The freakin Liberals would have us believe all that touchy feely stuff works---BUT IT DON'T!!!!

[Char-Gar]

I go the range to shoot and not to make friends or shoot the breeze. I am certain strangers think I am a grumpy sort, which I am. I keep an eye on them and have a loaded handgun on me at all times. My current range has no rules against it, but I would do it even if they did.

In fact I have a loaded gun on me at all times, and keep an eye on everbody everywhere.

[BD]

Blackthorn,
I believe if you adjust the statistics to ignore the weapon used, Canadian " violent crimes against persons" passed the US statistically about 5 years ago. I believe we still lead all of the commonwealth countries in murders per 100,000, but you guys are beating us on assault and robbery rates pretty consistently.
BD

[Bret4207]

You also have to consider the data used in these statistics. One big problem I see with the US murder rates is that most data includes suicides, accidental shootings and shootings by police. You can't murder yourself, an accident is not a murder and self defense is not murder. I've always felt the data was skewed on purpose. Other nations may not use the same data to start with. Then the the issue of what data is available. If you look at these stats- http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes then you see the US as the most crime ridden place in the world. Does anyone really believe there is less crime in Mexico, the Czech Republic, Morocco, El Salvador, Belarus? Haiti and Cuba aren't even on the list! Flawed data fueled by people not reporting crime or by totally corrupt police forces/gov't taking part in the crimes mean lower stats across the board. I even heard of one sociologist who was making the case that Americans were the most violent people on earth by including deaths in our latest wars! That's nuts.

Don't believe everything you read. What is illegal here is legal in other places. What is a simply prosecuted crime here may be a huge undertaking in other countries. I was amazed at what a Canadian citizen needs to go through to have someone arrested for Trespass. It's ridiculous! No wonder the stats are lower!

[blackthorn]

Bret, I believe you hit the nail right on the head, and so did BD!! Years and years of primarily Liberal government have left us with a judiciary riddled with bleeding heart liberals and the bulk of the population have swallowed the myth that we can be protected by calling 911----NOT!!

[Roundnoser]

I frequent a few ranges in my area (I'm a member at each, and a range officer at my "home" club). Regardless of any local rule, I ALWAYS carry a concealed weapon! Even if I'm just sighting in my deer rifle or shooting some test loads for my pistols, I keep a little insurance policy in my waist band. Out of sight, out of mind.

It is also a shame that we can no longer trust others in almost any situation. My rule: If I don't know you, I don't trust you. Ergo, you certainly do NOT get to test fire or handle my guns! Sorry if that hurts peoples feelings, but I don't give a F*&%!!!! If anyone gets shot, its going to be the scumbag and his a** hole criminal partner!!! I will NOT become a victim like that Airforce Vet...Poor guy. My heart goes out to him, and his family.

PS: Sorry about my disguised cuss words, but this sort of thing really makes my blood boil!

[10x]

Bret, I believe you hit the nail right on the head, and so did BD!! Years and years of primarily Liberal government have left us with a judiciary riddled with bleeding heart liberals and the bulk of the population have swallowed the myth that we can be protected by calling 911----NOT!!

In Canada years of Liberal rule have left us with a corrupt legal system - a system where the plea bargain makes justice negotiable and allows trade, bribes, and payoffs in legal cases.

Cases in point - two men are friends of James Roszko who killed 4 police officers - they gave him a ride just prior to the event not knowing Roszko was going to murder people. They are serving 15 years.

The man (Derek Turgeon - my neighbor) who sold the Glock Handgun (while Derek was under a firearms prohibition placed on him by the courts) to Bulatchi (who was under a firearms prohibition placed by the courts) breaking numerous Canadian gun laws and the result was Bulatchi murdering an RCMP officer with the gun - Poor Derek may have spent a day in jail before he was released.

That is an example of a corrupt legal system where laws, convictions, and punishment are negotiable.

BTW: Do not ever attempt to bring any handgun or some types of rifle into Canada. U.S. Citizens have faced sentences for up to two years for having a handgun with them while traveling through to Alaska.

[Wayne Smith]

I shoot at an organized private range. You have to go through the range office to get to the range. I don't mind unloading my gun at that point because the range masters are always armed at all times and, I know them! When I leave the building I am armed.

[ErikO]

I can certainly see this happening in MO we have several unsupervised Conservation area ranges. Yes at them you can carry cocked and locked. But at the supervised ranges you wouldn't be able to because of range rules. I rarely shoot at any range anymore because I own a small farm now and shoot there at my own range.
This really sucks because of what the antis can do with it but as we all know a gun is just a tool that some can use for good and others use for bad. If they didnt have a gun they would use something else ..JMO

I do believe that at the indoor range I shoot at the rule is 'concealed means concealed' and only the staff and visiting LEOs get to OC. ;)

I'm glad that I rarely shoot alone. I really hope this fellow recovers and nothing good comes to those with his guns. As the FBI found out in '86, a mini-14/mini-30 is a force multiplier...and they should be ready for it now.

[Recluse]

Reckon I'm marching to a different drummer on this one.

When I read people saying, "Hope they get caught" and "hope the police catch these thugs," my thought process is "I hope some fellows from his VFW post get together and go find the alpha-hotels who did this and shoot THEM in the head. Repeatedly."

There are just flat some crimes that I'm a firm believer in vigilante justice. Crimes like this one fall squarely into that category.

And like Char-gar, I'm not real sociable at a gun range and I'm never unarmed.

:coffee:

[PatMarlin]

I also like a Trial by the end of the week. Gallows to be built within eyeshot of the jail house, immediately after the verdict is read. Just like in the old west. Don't call Clint Eastwood or Eli Wallach.

[geargnasher]

The public range that I occasionally frequent is very actively monitored by at least one SO, usually the owner, and he and his staff open carry and are VERY competent with their sidearms. They are also wary as foxes, probably even more so now. The policy allows shooters to open-carry on the premisis, and even carry loaded magazines, but not loaded guns unless on the firing line. The philosophy on carrying loaded, concealed weapons is "there is no prohibition of your licensed right to do so, as long as it remains as the law requires, concealed."

I sure hope this was an isolated incident, and hope even more that this man makes a recovery.

Gear

[bearcove]

Another board member & I were shooting on some open land down on the south side of town about 6 or 8 months ago when a few other people showed up & started to chum up to us. We didn't discuss it until later, but we both had a funny feeling about the other folks that showed up. We remained courteous to them without being overly friendly. We both made sure that neither of us was ever without ammo in at least one gun that was under our direct control. Only one of us shot at a time. Eventually, they packed up & left. We did the same shortly thereafter.

Always be aware of your surroundings, especially when you are armed. A gun is a powerful tool. It can be used for you, or against you. It's important to maintain control.

Was shooting on BLM afew days ago and my son asked why I carried my 454 rossi with me when we went down range to put up targets. So we turned around looked at the truck, I told him some people are bad people and if they came and took the guns they could shoot us. BUT if they came and tried that while I was carrying the rifle with 10 rounds in the mag they would be up stinky creek without a paddle.

Its sad that I need to explain these things to my kids, but beats being a victum someday.

[firefly1957]

My prayers for the victim however I am really worried what the scum that did this is planning next! They did not attempt to commit and that is the end of it they are going to use those guns for something else. I pray they are stopped before injuring more innocent people.

[johniv]

My prayers go out for the poor fella, I hope he can recover. I guess that we all gotta remember that there have always been scum like the people who did this. in the world, there seems to be even more today, but maybe it is just that thanks to the internet , we hear about most of them( I dont think this will make the national news) I think that in this world we must all stay alert and ready, at all times, but balance that with the hope that most people are NOT like the scum that did this.
John