A Question on Presses...

[Salmon-boy]

Short and to the point: Has anyone tried the Lee Classic Cast press?

Longer explanation: DukeInMaine showed me BT Sniper dies for the .44 cal Blts (I'm coining a phrase here - Blts = Smooshed Boolits.. Oh I am so punny sometimes!) and it's been eating away at my brain and apparently my wallet.

I was thinking of getting a stronger single-stage press and was looking at options. The RCBS Rock-chucker is apparently the go-to for smooshing. I'm game for purchasing one, but see the above wallet comment.

Since I'm a yankee at heart and (according to my wife) have been racking up the points in the "Too much money, not enough brains" column with recent projects I was looking at alternatives.

I'm also looking at getting a .50 BMG at some point, I was thinking of the Classic Cast 50 kit, saving alot more than switching to Geico.

Would this be a good press for swaging? What's the largest blt you've swaged with one?

[Reload3006]

you present a very good question. I have been known to be a "Lee hater" thats not entirely true I have lots of Lee gear. I just dont happen to like their presses. for only one reason Lee designed them to not cam over. the problem comes in when swaging especially, is you get the most power out of your press just before and at cam over. That is the only thing I have against Lee presses. I Know the Lee classic cast is a good robust O frame press. The Lyman Orange crusher is a good press for swaging.
But you bring up a very very good point when you get into the 50bmg and you want one press for reloading and doing it all the 50BMG presents a problem Even my walnut hill press is stretched for capacity on the 50BMG. Will the press will hold up to swaging pressure I dont know it would be an expensive experiment. I love RCBS but dont think I'd want to swage with their 50 press.. JMO

another issue especially in swaging is if any press that will not cam over makes it very difficult to have consistency. when a press reaches "Cam Over" its like a piston in a engine reaching Top Dead Center. it has completed it stroke no matter how much pressure you put on the press it will not go any higher. on presses that have stops designed into them forcing you to rely on "Feel" In my opinion is just not going to yield very accurate results.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think the Lee Classic cast is great for swaging pistol bullets with soft lead cores using BT's dies. I like that the upper half of the ram is removable and replaceable to have a ram that is threaded to receive CH style threaded bottom punches....which is much better for swaging, reducing the chance of deforming a shell holder style ram.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1753.jpg

Also, I like it for it's universal handle adjustment/positioning, if I were to mount it up-side-down to simplify sizing bullets or cases and such.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1392-1.jpg

[Grandpas50AE]

For jacketed .50BMG bullets, it is unlikely that standard 7/8 x 14 dies that fit in reloading presses would take the force needed to fully form a jacketed .50BMG bullet. I have had dies for the reloading press snap forming long-ogive .30 cal. bullets, so I went to the 1 - 1/2 inch body dies and the press that will take them. Mine happen to be Corbin, but there are others on this forum that make similar presses to Corbin's that don't appear to cost as much. There is a thread on making swaging presses, and they look every bit as sturdy as anyone else's. BT Sniper may be able to advise you on some modified CH4D dies for a bit less than some of the other makers, but making full-length .50BMG bullets in jacketed form (whether FMJ, Spitzer lead tipped, or JHP) would probably not give much longevity on a 7/8 x 14 point forming die. Just my $.02 observation for what it is worth.

[BT Sniper]

As I understand it Salmon is looking to simply reload for the 50BMG rather then swage .510 bullets?

The Lee Classic cast has the advantage of being able to improve upon and it is the least expensive press of any quality out there. To get the Lee to the full potential for swaging I relocate bolts for the linkage to reduce the vertical travel of the ram. This also increases the leverage. It requires you to drill 4 new holes in the linkage arms. For this to work we need to grind off one side of the built in stops. This takes care of any cam over problems and alllows teh ram to reach TDC top dead center of the stroke. I also really like the threaded ram top. A lot can be done to make the Lee a better swage press but "as is" or in the "stock" factory condition it leaves me wanting more.

With my "improved" lee classic there is not a bullet that I can't swage. Well maybe solids but I have put it to the test for sure and with th added leverage it gets the job done.

The RCBS because of it's different toggles or linkages, whatever, we can not improve the leverage in the same way we can the Lee. But in it's factory form I feel the RCBS RC has a stronger feel then the Lee classic. The RCBS is good but we can't upgrade it as much as the Lee.

If you are good at tinkering the lee is a great choice to upgrade. If not the RCBS is a good choice.

The Orange crusher has an extreem cam over that is allmost violent in my opinon but it has a strong looking frame. The one I have is only threaded for 7/8-14 too.

Here is some pics.

My heavy duty Lee Classic Swage press
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/pressupgrade002.jpg



a stock RCBS RC press with my ejector for swaging
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/BTSniper/P1060534.jpg

[DukeInFlorida]

Salmon Boy,
If it hasn't been said clearly enough, the RCBS Rockchucker press will NOT resize/reload 50 BMG brass. You'll need a whole different press for that.

I've already mentioned to Bob J (Bob Johnson) over at NES that you'll be looking for him to discuss 50 BMG casting and reloading. Bob has that system down pat.

So, if you had a suitable press for reloading 50 BMG, then yes, that press would also be able to handle this swaging stuff, but not vice versa.

However, using a 50 BMG prerss for swaging would be like driving Bill Kowalski's ten wheeler full of lead/gravel to the store for grocery shopping. A bit of overkill.

Save your pennies, and get a Rockchucker or do the adapter thing per BT Sniper's suggestion for your Lee Classic, and do the regular one step and two step swaging on that and then when you buy the 50 BMG gun system, you dive into that with both feet and get the proper press and tools for it.

[Salmon-boy]

Yep, Swaging for the .50 is way too far off at this point. I'm going to be reloading much sooner.

Jon, I Like the upside-down mount. That's REALLY thinking outside the box.

This is all good info. I wouldn't have though of the cam-over issue at all. Thanks Reload. With BT's idea of redesigning the linkage on the Classic Cast, I think it might just fit the bill.

[torker]

Salmon-Boy RCBS has factory seconds which have only cosmetic flaws Rockchucker Supreme model (chipped paint,scratchs,etc. or displayed at shows) for $105.00, $124.36 shipped anywhere USA. might be the ticket your looking for. RCBS.com Tech support

[BT Sniper]

for those interested in the Lee. Their factory outlet store has teh best prices I've seen for teh Lee Classic Cast press. $73.40 !!!!!

Here is the link!

http://fsreloading.com/html/xcart/catalog/classic.html#50BMG

[fredj338]

What do you swagers think of the RCBS Ammo Master? I have one I load large African rifle rounds on & am thinking of swaging bullets for my 223. This would be my choice becuase I have it.

[BT Sniper]

The 223 bullets don not take much pressure at all to form. Any decent reloading press will work in my opinion for 223s.

BT

[Reload3006]

I dont think it takes very much to do .223 i swge mine on a walnut hill. But most makers out there make reloading press .223 dies. I sure would try it. I however would not change out my press handle for more leverage. usually its not needed if you think you really have to crank down on it something is wrong.

[trapdoor-man]

Less wallet trauma. I found a minty RockChucker, extra primer tubes and pieces parts, still in box for $75 OTD July 2011. The deals are out there. Jes gotta be in the right place at the right time. And when you see something you want at a price you are willing to pay, BUY IT RIGHT THEN. If you say to yourself, "I'll see if there is another one further on for less money. I can always come back." (A) It will be gone when you get back, or (B) you will have forgotten where it was in the show. Missed a Browning 22 Auto take down for $300 and a Rossi Coach Gun for $175 doing that (A). Also forgot where the ammo I wanted was one day, so lost (Literally) that too (B).

I've made mistakes you haven't even thought about yet.

Nuff said.

Chet

[Salmon-boy]

As far as I can tell, the Classic Cast .50 BMG kit is the cheapest way I'm going to get into reloading .50BMG. Being strong enough to swage some big blts, maybe up to .44 (don't have anything bigger yet) was my question. My other 3 single stage presses are Lee Reloaders. I think I'd probably break one on anything larger than .223.

I am a few months off from needing to do so, and there are a couple of shows coming up, so I'll be looking. Considering what I've seen in the past, I doubt I'll see anything but it certainly pays to keep looking.