plumbers-- pipe ?? for my water pump

[gray wolf]

Hello men, I have a question about pipe fittings, a subject I know nothing about.
I have a small gas powered water pump that uses a 1" hose. That is to say it has a 1" discharge port. I would think it is common pipe thread.
I want to use 1 1/8 " or 1 1/4 " lay flat hose in order to increase the water flow a little and cut down friction loss. The discharge hose will be limited to 25' of shorter.
What do I call the fitting that will screw onto the 1" port on the pump (male)
and then allow me to screw the larger 1 1/4" into it.
Can I do this? is there a down side ?
I want to increase volume, I guess I will loose a little pressure.

PVC fittings would be fine, -- the pump is a Honda WX10 37GPM

Thanks for the help.

[DCM]

You will probably need to put together 2 fittings to do this.
Is the discharge male or female threaded?
You want 1"X1 1/4"male.

Jim could probably explain exactly what you need and the best way to do this as it is right up his alley more than mine.

[montana_charlie]

Since your discharge line is only 25 feet long, you don't have any friction loss to speak of.
The 1-inch pipe fitting will limit the output of the pump to it's capacity ... no matter how much you increase hose diameter.

Additionally, assuming you could modify the input and output pump fittings, it is normal for a pump to have some degree of restriction at the output as compared to the intake. It makes for efficient operation.

So, you would need to increase the intake port as much as you increase the output fitting, and you would probably need a stronger motor to make it move more volume.

In other words, if you need 'more water' you need a 'bigger pump' to attach your bigger discharge hose to.

CM

[gray wolf]

I have never been able to afford the 1" lay flat hose that goes with the pump.
So I have been using a very cheep sump pump hose. It is black plastic and 1 1/8 diameter.
It is spiraled ( best description I can give. )
It seemed to work with a little duct tape over the discharge port
and a hose clamp to hold it on. it seemed to work OK but it breaks very easy cause it's so cheep.
That's why I thought the 1 1/8" 0r 1 1/4" lay flat would work.
I was looking at a little fitting that screws onto the 1" pump outlet and the other end is a 1 1/4"
male thread. I saw it at Northern tool. It was only $2.99

[looseprojectile]

But I did stay in a camp trailer a couple of times.:redneck:

Sounds like you need a one inch pipe nipple and a bell reducer and then a bayonet fitting to fit the reducer and hose to increase the diameter of the outlet.
You will probably won't notice any difference between a one inch and a one and a quarter inch discharge hose. Friction loss can be pretty much disregarded in a little water pump.The discharge is already reduced at the pump to one inch. Twentyfive foot elevation will be a pretty hard grunt for a little pump like that.
One inch hose will be cheaper too. Main thing is to be sure to use a strainer on the intake.

I have a little Homelite two stroke water pump that weighs about eight or ten pounds and pumps a respectable amount of volume and pressure out of a five eights inch garden hose. I use it on a high banker gold sluce.
What are you trying to do with your pump?

Life is good

[Jim]

If the 1" discharge fitting on the pump is a male thread and you want to increase to a 1 1/4 " hose size, you need a 1 1/4" X 1" threaded BELL REDUCER. Screw the 1" side of the bell reducer onto the pump discharge nozzle. Into the 1 1/4" side of the bell reducer, you need to install a 1 1/4" MALE THREAD BY BARBED ADAPTER. Slide an appropriately sized hose clamp over the hose, slide the hose on the BARBED ADAPTER and tighten with a screwdriver. The hose clamp does not need to be torqued in with a 3 ft. cheater. This is how most people ruin hose clamps.

BELL REDUCER IMAGE (http://www.google.com/imgres?q=threaded+bell+reducer&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=708&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=QW5JSXr8F2tksM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dixonvalve.com/product/300BR1510.html&docid=jqxd812cDGiDqM&imgurl=http://www.dixonvalve.com/files/product/images/large/threaded_bell_reducer_br1075_color_lg_watermarked. jpg&w=553&h=600&ei=TDHRToadEKjs0gHQnP0j&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=368&vpy=142&dur=4106&hovh=234&hovw=216&tx=132&ty=116&sig=113690394625643376757&page=1&tbnh=164&tbnw=151&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0)

BARBED ADAPTER IMAGE (http://www.google.com/imgres?q=MALE+THREAD+BY+BARBED+ADAPTER&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=708&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=Si8Nb37C8jfKtM:&imgrefurl=http://petcarelive.com/Aquarium/jbj-28-gallon-nano-cube-cabinet-sta.htm&docid=9RwnbeTv1lzhwM&imgurl=http://petcarelive.com/img/Aquarium/male-adapter-mt-x-barb-1-12.jpg&w=455&h=390&ei=oDHRTsW5JoLi0QHM35z7Dw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=873&vpy=323&dur=968&hovh=208&hovw=243&tx=127&ty=108&sig=113690394625643376757&page=5&tbnh=147&tbnw=167&start=68&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:68)

If you need more help, shoot me a PM and I'll do what I can. Hopefully, this will get you where you want to go.

[gray wolf]

Thank you Jim


I have a little Homelite two stroke water pump that weighs about eight or ten pounds and pumps a respectable amount of volume and pressure out of a five eights inch garden hose. I use it on a high banker gold sluce.
What are you trying to do with your pump?

I used to do a little prospecting for the yellow metal. I have not been able to do it in years because of my back. But the wife say's I need to get out even if I have to force myself.
So we dug out the power sluice box and the pump. the box is 10"X60" and the pump does 37GPM
Not enough to work the riffles. So I use expanded metal over Miners Moss over ribbed rubber mat instead of the riffle bar. But I only get about 1' of water in the box with a 1 1/2"
downward slope on the box. The cheep sump pump hose is a little larger than 1" and goes to a PVC header the feeds water to the top of the sluice. I just wanted to up-grade the hose because it always breaks on me ( cheep plastic ) My sluice would not work
with less than 30 GPM and a garden hose is not enough volume.
So here we go, my simple question is now a mountain. So bring it on.
We don't find much gold, not enough for the gas to get there,
and it's only a few miles to travel. It's just a nice way to spend a day or two during the summer.

[oneokie]

Build a manifold to install on the pump discharge port and use multiple garden hoses out of the question?

[gray wolf]

out of the question?
yes not practical

[454PB]

montana charlie has already said it.......you can't get more volume by increasing the output side of the pump over it's design.

That would be like connecting an 8 gauge wire to a 14 gauge wire and expecting it to conduct more amperage. Yeah it might seem like a good idea, and 8 gauge is capable of handling nearly 3 times the current......but that 14 gauge wire is the "bottleneck" that limits flow.

[looseprojectile]

Make your sluice smaller. It can be as small as four inches wide and it is not necessary for it to be more than eighteen inches long. Adjust the slope to get the right flow. You need a spray/ pressure at the top to move the big stuff and to wash off the gravel. I kept drilling holes in the spray bar till the spray pressure appeared to be diminishing. My attempt at getting the most volume with a forceful spray.
Screen your material down to about a half inch and run it wet.
I think it should do well with a 5/8" garden hose. Mine does. My sluice is about six inches wide.
I have used that cheap corrugated plastic hose on several wading pools and it is sometimes hard to make work without any pressure.
By the way I use a flat roll up fabric hose.

Good luck mining!

Life is good

[MtGun44]

If the inside of the pipe is the same spiral as outside, it will cause significant pressure
drop over even 25 ft. Get some smooth polyethylene pipe in 1" ID or 1 1/4" if you
want. The internal roughness of the pipe can make a big difference if there is a significant
flow velocity, but the folks that remind you that the best you can do is to get the rated
GPM out of the pump. You can get up to 100% with a low restriction output, a restricted
output may give you only 75% or 90% or something, depending on roughness and length.

The other issue is how much height are you raising the water? This makes a HUGE difference.
If you are just pushing it across pretty much the same height outlet as inlet, then no sweat.
But if you are pushing it up the hill 30 ft this will just kill your flow BIG TIME.

Bill

[Frank46]

Suction side of a pump should always be bigger than the discharge side. Same goes wether its for an old double acting steam pump, steam or electric pump or gas pump. Frank

[geargnasher]

Many of the pumps I've seen these days don't have NPT inlets or outlets, but some sort of straight threads of the same pitch as NPT. I've always had trouble with them leaking under pressure, but with a no-pressure setup like you're talking about Jim's advice would be the way I'd go. Black poly pipe is cheap and the barb adaptors for it are available in galvanized steel as well as plastic.

Gear

[Hardcast416taylor]

The old rule of thumb is you will get the maximum amount of flow from the smallest diameter pipe in the run of the system. In other words if 1" is the smallest size pipe at the pump, that is the amount of flow you get no matter what size pipe or hose you put after it that is larger. I only played with pipe wrenchs for 35+ years till I finally retired.Robert

[Jim]

Robert is right. Another retired 'flange head', yippeeee![smilie=w:

[Hardcast416taylor]

Robert is right. Another retired 'flange head', yippeeee![smilie=w:


I`ve been told the reason I was accepted on as an apprentice is I was observed using an 18" Rigid iron pipe wrench to crack walnuts on a vise!Robert:groner:

[TNFrank]

Also remember, when you go larger you'll drop pressure. Personally, I'd stick with the hose size that the pump was set up for from the manufacture. They know what'll work with their pumps and what won't.

[DCM]

montana charlie has already said it.......you can't get more volume by increasing the output side of the pump over it's design.

That would be like connecting an 8 gauge wire to a 14 gauge wire and expecting it to conduct more amperage. Yeah it might seem like a good idea, and 8 gauge is capable of handling nearly 3 times the current......but that 14 gauge wire is the "bottleneck" that limits flow.

While it is true that the 14 gauge wire will be the limiting factor in the amount of current a circuit will handle safely one must also understand that in order to do any work you need voltage too. Volts X Amps=Watts=Power in a purely resistive circuit.

The resistance of the 8Ga. wire is far less than that of the 14Ga. wire.

Due to the fact there is resistance in the wire you will have a certain amount of voltage drop on that wire. It will be minimal for short lengths of wire with low amperage, BUT it will be dramatic for long lengths of wire with more amperage.

These are referred to as I squared X R losses (current squared times resistance).
Or "heat" losses.

A simple way to prove your loses is to take that cheap 100' extension cord you "saved" money on and plug it in to the outside outlet on your house, then run it out to your casting shed (preferably on a cold day)and add a outlet strip. Then First plug in an incandescent lamp, then while looking at the light plug in your casting furnace, your light just got dimmer when the funace turned on, now since it is a cold day in the shed let us add a electric space heater, the light just got dimmer yet! Now we let everything run for a while and you go back outside where it is cold and wrap your hand around that extension cord, Pretty warm aint it? If you have a volt meter check the voltage at your outlet strip with all of the stuff running and check it at the outlet on the house, it will give you a higher reading at the house.

So how could we fix the losses due to the cheap extension cord? Replace it with an"expensive" one of a much heavier gauge than you think you would need. this will reduce your voltage drop due to the resistance of the wire and actually save you money in the long run. Both on your electric bill and because most equipment will last longer running at the right voltage.

P.S. the cheap cord is all you need to run a weed wacker(low amperage) but if you are going to run any kind of load you will be better served buy a good heavy Ga. cord.

The same goes for running power to any "outbuildings" from the main building by overhead or underground lines. If you use larger wire you will have less voltage drop especially at longer distances. Why pay to heat the ground or air instead of your furnace etc.? Penny wise??

Edit: Anyways what I was trying to say is that connecting a LONG length of 8Ga. wire to a short length of 14Ga wire may be more practical than most people think. An outside outlet on your house might be fed by a short piece of 14Ga.wire and it may be the most economical place to tap off of to feed your casting shed or outbuilding a long ways away.

A great voltage drop calculator is available at http://www.nooutage.com/vdrop.htm

[gray wolf]

Well DCM
That is some good info, and we thank you.
Now I say this with a smile on my face.
I think you get the 2011 Award for the most massive thread drift in history.

[DCM]

Well DCM
That is some good info, and we thank you.
Now I say this with a smile on my face.
I think you get the 2011 Award for the most massive thread drift in history.

THANK YOU! I finally won something this year! :bigsmyl2:

I did say the pipefitting stuff was more up Jims alley than mine and you are correct about the drift, its been windy here. :-P Sorry.

[DCM]

Some info much more closely related to the O.P. question that I could not locate before. A local flangehead refered me here back when I was having issues with my 3/4 HP sump pump in heavy rain.

http://www.freecalc.com/fricfram.htm