44 reloading question

[desertwheeler]

This past week I acquired my first Ruger, a new SS, 5 1/2 inch, 44 mag, SBH. Today I fired it for the first time. I was dismayed by the inaccuracy. I shot both resting and without resting, and couldn't seem to get any kind of consistency. I didn't even bother to try adjusting the sights. Maybe the gun needs to be broken in. Maybe it doesn't like the Winchester white box mags I was shooting. I will say I liked the feel of the gun compared to my S&W Model 29. Not near the pain. I shot off about 40 rounds and could have kept right on shooting. Just five rounds with the Model 29 and my hand was crying.

Today I also set up my new Lee classic turret press. I've been doing lots of reading and researching and am leaning toward the following "recipes."

These will be 250 grain SWC cast bullets from WW lead. I have two powders: Unique and H110. I plan to start loading 44 specials with 6.5 grains of Unique, and 44 mags with 20 grains of H110. The specials with regular primers and the mags with mag primers. Does this seem to be in the ballpark?

I made two quick stops at local auto shops. One gave me a large coffee can's worth of WW, the other said someone else had just picked up theirs.

Anyway, I appreciate any suggestions and feedback.

[44MAG#1]

Specials with 7.5 Unique and mags with at least 22 gr H110. I personally use 8 or Unique and 9 or powder pistol. These duplicate the Buffalo Bore 44 Special load with the 250 SWC. These in a 44 Special.
With H110 you will get inconsistant ignition with the 20 gr load. Did you not have a thread on H110 recently???
Is it you or the gun that doesn't shoot well?
Get someone else that is a known good 44 Mag shooter to try the gun. It could very well be you. If 5 rounds with the Smith got to you then to me you are recoil sensitive. Recoil sensitive equals poor shooting.

[pmer]

Wow, bating 500 at the auto shops.. good job!

I didn't think about recoil sensitive, maybe he could leave a couple chambers empty his next time out to see if he's flinching. That and consistant grip. :Fire:

[Bwana]

Of course there is the standard "match the boolit size to the throats", and I suggest that when you are working up an accuracy load you pick one chamber and use it exclusively for load development. This will eliminate differences between chambers and therefore different internal and external ballistics. After you find a good load, fire a clyinder full to see how it does. My SBHs wear Pachmeyer grips and have the space between the finger guard and the grip (at the top) filled in with Blue automotive silicone (then split with a sharp thin knife) to prevent finger bump. Makes a BIG difference. I also now wear padded gloves when firing heavy loads due to arthritis.

[roysha]

10 grains of Unique and a 250 grain cast bullet of the Keith style, cast from straight WWs, should just about do anything you need done. Mine chronograph at 1185 fps from an S&W 629 8 3/8" barrel and I can, and have many times, shot 2-300 rounds in an afternoon with no problems. Rarely do I shoot less than 100 in a session. Most of them at an 10" gong at 100 yards.

[Reload3006]

one of the most accurate .44 loads i ever used was a RCBS Keith 255 gr boolit behind 9 grains of herco and a ww LP primer. set the OAL to your own cylinder its really more of a 44 special load but it was very accurate in my super blackhawk and my browning 92 lever ... good luck.

[keyhole]

When I bought my M29 new in early 70's 23.0 gr H110 and Lyman 429421 was the load for me. Fast forward almost 40 years and that load pushes pretty hard on my hand. I find 9.0 Unique OK for extended shooting. The 23.0 H110 is more comfortable in an OM Ruger Flattop.

[Larry Gibson]

I also suggest a bit more Unique with that bullet; 7.5 gr in the Special cases or 8.5 in the magnum cases for an excellent medium range .44 load. The 9-10 gr loads of Unique in the magnum cases also are good if want more oomph.

The 23 gr load of H110 with magnum primers will also work fine with that bullet if you WQ them. Some lots of WWs are to soft and accuracy won't be as good if the bullets are AC'd. I also suggest you add 2% tin to the WWs whether you WQ or AC them for a better alloy and better cast bullets. They will also work better with the H110 load as the BHN will be around 12.

However, I suggest you switch from H110 with the PB'd cast bullets to 2400 powder. Use 18.5 to 22 gr depending on how much oomph you want. 22 gr of 2400 under that bullet was/is the "classic" Elemer Keith load 44 magnum load. It is a good one but is a magnum level load.

I also can shoot my SAs with full house 44 magnum loads all day but out of a S&W N frame on cylinder is about all my smaller hand cand take. The smaller shorter length of pull grips of the the Colt Anaconda or the Ruger Redhawk allow a bit more shooting with the DA grips but it is not nearly as comfortable as the SA grips. The SA grips roll in your hand from the recoil instead of driving straight back into the web like DA grip styles do.

Larry Gibson

[desertwheeler]

Thanks for the suggestions. It's exactly what I was hoping for. Looks like I was erring a little on the light side.

So far I liquid cleaned all of my 44 cases. Then dried them. After that I tumbled them in the drier using rice as the medium. Worked pretty well. I set my turret press to single stage and deprimed everything, then reprimed. I'm at the powder stage. I'm not doing well with the Lee scale at all. Doesn't seem to want to cooperate...over sensitive. I belled and added powder to one case. Will verify with the Lee cc scoop and try a couple more to make sure they all look even.

[462]

"Doesn't seem to want to cooperate...over sensitive."

What, exactly, do you mean by "over sensitive". Are you, by chance, using an electornic scale?

[mongo]

I just picked up a second hand Ruger SBH last week. Shot a couple hundred rounds that I had loaded a while back for my mod.29 and also Win.94 using Lee 240gr round nose over 10 gr Unique. Lube was 45/45/10. Results were super with only a small amount of leading by the forcing cone. Rolled some with 8.5gr Unique to see how they work, 10gr with that bullet seems to be the perfect combo but does make your hand hurt after a while,lol

[desertwheeler]

I just can't seem to get anywhere with the Lee safety scale. It took forever to zero but then the arm starts randomly going up and down. I know there is no wind in the room. The amount of powder doesn't line up with their cc cup system. I just don't feel comfortable moving ahead. I did some research online and many others have had similar problems with the Lee scale. I've decided to get the RCBS 505 scale. More $ and more waiting... Oh well, better safe than sorry.

[357shooter]

I just can't seem to get anywhere with the Lee safety scale. It took forever to zero but then the arm starts randomly going up and down. I know there is no wind in the room. The amount of powder doesn't line up with their cc cup system. I just don't feel comfortable moving ahead. I did some research online and many others have had similar problems with the Lee scale. I've decided to get the RCBS 505 scale. More $ and more waiting... Oh well, better safe than sorry.Not sure what is causing this. I like to keep the poise lock on all the time, maybe it's sliding around.

The RCBS will not be any more accurate than the Lee, FYI. Once you learn to zero the Lee, it's a piece of cake to use. It matches my Redding scale exactly too.

As far as matching the weights on their cups, they won't match with any scale. Not just the Lee.

Give it a try, it can't just start swinging randomly without something causing it. My guess is the grain poise slider moving accidently. Locking it may help. I lock mine, and then slowly slide it where needed.

Maybe that will keep you from having to wait.

[462]

Okay, a balance beam scale . . . good.

Though your reloading area may be draft free, don't overlook air movement caused by your body's motion. Your hand, passing in close proximity to the scale, will make it move.

RCBS, Lyman, Hornady (when they used to sell a balance beam scale), Redding, etc., all advertize their scales to be accurate to .1 of a grain. Lee's scale may the same.

[desertwheeler]

Stopped by Sportsman's Warehouse today and bought a 30 dollar Hornady digital scale. It's made in China and looks cheap. I'll hold out that I can figure out the Lee scale. Couldn't spend the 80 dollars for the RCBS beam scale.

Loaded up my first cartridges this afternoon. I tried to follow the directions that came with the dies and the bullet seating/crimping step was a disaster (first two seated way too deep). The directions just didn't work for me. I resorted to youtube and got it figured out. I loaded eighteen cartridges with 22 grains of H110. It was getting late but I convinced the family to take a little outing to try them out.

The muzzle flash was tremendous. The sound was awesome. The kick put a mule to shame. Compared to the JSP factory jobs, the accuracy was WAY better. At fifteen yards out of six shots without resting on anything, three were within an inch of each other. I'm happy about the accuracy, but I'm not happy about the rest. I'll not be loading above the 22 grains. Might try going down a grain or two.

[44MAG#1]

Going down a grain will more likely than not give a bigger flash. H110 AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD numerous times does not like to be downloaded a lot.
If you think the "kick put a mule to shame" you need alot more work on shooting recoiling handguns.
If anything you may want to creep up on charge weight heading toward 23.5 to 24 grains.
Now I have shot 22 gr and tested it and it did give very good accuracy but going lighter is going to start being very erratic in shot to shot performance.
The load you tried will not have as much velocity as the factory loads so how was the sound "awesome" and the "kick put a mule to shame"?
I don't understand unless the flash made you think that there was tremendous power.
Don't equate flash with power. Generally it has nothing to do with it.

[Jim]

Is it really necessary to chastise this man and make him look like an idiot? Not only did he post looking for help, but he admits to having a new gun, new equipment and just getting started.

[44MAG#1]

I did not mean to do that. He has been told numerous times that H110 does not like to be loaded down much. . I don't understand where he is coming from. If he is looking for help let him be receptive of that help. If he isn't going to be receptive why does he still post looking for help.
As to the recoil, new equipment and so forth we all started out at one time or another.
I am trying to be honest with him and point out that flash doesn't mean mucho power in fact with most ball or spherical powders it means the opposite. That is where the comments about "kick like a mule" came in.
I will say again I did not mean to berate him of his questions. But, it seems like he doesn't want to be receptive of anything he is given as to advise on his questions.
Desertwheeler I hope you weren't offended. I truly didn't mean to offend anyone.
Jim now how about checking out his thread on "Advise on H110 Reloads" 2 or 3 pages ago.

[44MAG#1]

Desertwheeler i sent you a private message.

[desertwheeler]

Guys, no offense taken. I admit it....I'm a bit dense. I need to hear all of this multiple times said in multiple ways for it to sink in. I'm new to handguns. Ok, I'll tell you, I just bought my first handgun a little more than a month ago, first 44 a month ago or less. First time out with the 44 using factory mags set me back on my heels. I'm 6 foot and weigh 210 lbs. We heat our house all winter with wood alone and I cut it all. That just to say I'm not a little city wimp. We live on a small farm....goats, chickens, dogs. But shooting the 44 mag was a new experience to me. I don't have much of a frame of reference to deal with it. I grew up shooting single shot 16 gauge shotguns. This was in the South American rainforest where our meat came from what we hunted. We loaded our own shells using a little clear cc cup. We capped the shells off with wood shavings or melted wax. This is just to give you some perspective of where I'm coming from. This is my first time reloading here in the United States. I'm dealing with much more volatile and potentially dangerous components. As I told you 44Mag, I'm currently a school teacher and admittedly not technically or mechanically inclined. As I said, I need to hear it lots of times in lots of ways. I think my problem right now is using H110 powder period. I don't like all of that power. It seems unnecessary to me, and not conducive to my learning to use a handgun well. Maybe I should just set it aside and stick to the bottle of Unique I have. (I wanted to also ask what you think of this. I live in the most arid part of the country. Could it be that I'm getting more powder for the weight due to the lack of humidity?) Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions. I'm learning slowly and your help has been invaluable.

[Tom W.]

Unique or 2400 will do you just fine. I like 21 grains of 2400 with a plain base 245 grain RCBS cast bullet, 22 grains of H110 with the same bullet, or 21 grains with a 310 grain gas checked Lee bullet. The recoil isn't a problem to me, and is doesn't get cold enough here for me to need a magnum primer, altho I do have some and occasionally will use them.

I do so hope you're savvy enough not to be firing that handgun without ear protection. The sound will cause irreparable damage to your hearing and will also be conducive to a flinch that won't be easy to get rid of.
As said before, be cautious and follow the loading manual's instructions when using H110, it's not a powder that should be loaded down. It's made for full powered loads. Try some Blue Dot or Herco , Unique or something else if you need lighter loads, and work yourself up to the "stout" loads. It's not a good idea to attempt to be Mr. Macho when you're learning a large caliber pistol or revolver.

[GRUMPA]

I read from start to finish on this and I hope I'm not going to PEEVE people on this. I would from a stand point of reloading do not down charge with H110.

Use something else like Unique or B-Dot PLEASE.

If you do not have data on the above please feel free to PM me and I'll gladly give you data.

Just starting out things can and will be confusing at times.

If you have issues with seating and over-all length as mentioned, I'll make a small video and send it to you via e-mail so you can better understand through visual aid.

Just keep on asking questions and don't be deterred, there are lots of folk here that are more than willing to get a person thru things.

[357shooter]

Stopped by Sportsman's Warehouse today and bought a 30 dollar Hornady digital scale. It's made in China and looks cheap. I'll hold out that I can figure out the Lee scale. Couldn't spend the 80 dollars for the RCBS beam scale.

FYI, I've tried the inexpensive digitals and went back to the beam scale. They will drift and vary, I wouldn't use it for powder charges. There is something weird going on in your case, once that's resolved you'll be better off. Hove you locked the poise slider to ensure it's not moving?

These days my digital is used to quickly weigh bullets, that's about it.

[Blammer]

get a cheap set of ear plugs, they work well, or some cheap ear muffs, $10 or so at your local supply store.

I would recommend Unique 8-10gr's with your 250ish wt boolit. Should be a good starting point.

I applaud you for toughing this through! You'll learn a lot and have fun too!

the H110 is good but may want to put that back on the shelf for a bit, shoot some "lighter" loads. :)

make sure there is no metal object too close to your balance beam scale, especially on the end where you weigh the powder. I'd set it on a piece of level wood, that may help.

[desertwheeler]

Tom, I'm definitely using ear protection! I said I'm dense, but not quite that dense. :) And I think if you read my posts you'll see I'm not trying to be Mr. Macho. I'm not interested in wrist crackin' power loads.

Thanks for the kind offers, Grumpa. I'll show you what I have gotten so far. I think I'm on the right track.

These are the first two unsuccessful attempts:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-moj-TXevyzA/TtOjBV727DI/AAAAAAAAZ7E/CZtNs59qUOk/s800/P1040119-1.JPG

This was my first successful round, but I felt like I got the crimp too tight. After this I separated the steps and seated the bullets first and then crimped in a separate step:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BeFqZpdY_3M/TtOjDURALlI/AAAAAAAAZ7Q/HgV3cMkXW9E/s800/P1040129-1.JPG

Here are the rounds after I was done. These are the ones I went out and fired:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8ozbM4buFEE/TtOjFPzbCGI/AAAAAAAAZ7k/Xb-07Vz_QTU/s800/P1040140-1.JPG

[desertwheeler]

Thanks 357shooter, I plan to keep working with the Lee scale until I get it figured out.

Thanks for the tips, Blammer. I'm ready to try the Unique!

BTW, can I use a puller to take apart those first two that are seated too deeply?

[462]

Desertwheeler,
In the two threads you've started, you've been given literally hundreds-of-years of reloading advise. It may be time to go back and re-read them. Also, I hope you finally bought a reloading manual . . . or two . . . and have read it a couple times.

It's awfully difficult to fool gravity, therefore a beam scale will always be reliable. Just keep it clean. From personal experience and that of many other members, electronic scales will give erratic readings, are very slow to react when using a powder trickler, and are better left to weighting boolits. Spend some time becoming familiar with the Lee scale, it'll work for you.

For safety sake, those boolits should be pulled as soon as possible. Actually, they should have been pulled right after they were seated.

[desertwheeler]

In the two threads you've started, you've been given literally hundreds-of-years of reloading advise. It may be time to go back and re-read them.

I've saved them on my computer, printed them off, and read them over and over and will continue to do so.


Also, I hope you finally bought a reloading manual . . . or two . . . and have read it a couple times.

It's on the Christmas wish list...


Spend some time becoming familiar with the Lee scale, it'll work for you.

I plan to.

[bobthenailer]

Afew months ago i bought a clean used S&W 3" 629 44 mag , and it wasent shooting to my liking with bullets sized at .430 dia . i used a pin guage to ck cyl throats and they were.433 dia, I beagled my mould to cast .433 dia bullets and pan lubed and i cut my group size by more than half , and later bought a .433 sizer from lathesmith. and all is going well

[Jack Ryan]

I only use the scales as a starting point on importan powder charges I'd take the trouble to test for accuracy. I have two beam scales and neither one is what I'd call truely accurate, consistant, not accurate.

When trying to duplicate previous loads I liked and tested, I'll fill a few cases to the powder weight I have written down and shoot them across the chrony. Then tweak it to duplicate the FPS. Denisity of powder can change some as it ages and or get's expoxed to air. Company recipes change, primer components change.

1200 fps out the end of the barrel is 1200 fps now and ten years from now.

[MT Gianni]

From post 25 that still looks like a heavy crimp to me.
If you are buying more powder, 6.5 gr Red Dot is an easy pllinking load of near 1000 fps. So is 7 gr Green Dot.

[desertwheeler]

Thanks for the additional tips, guys. A couple of you even pm'd me to offer help. Friendly and helpful place for beginners like myself.

Stopped by another auto shop today and they hooked me up with more lead. I should have enough now for a decent melt....and all for free.

[Blammer]

yes, get an inertial bullet puller and you can "pound" out the bullets to a little bit longer and still shoot them.

I personally don't crimp ANY of my 44mag loads, but opinions vary. If I were to suggest a crimp, I would apply a small light crimp. :)

even though your crimp on a few is "MASSIVE" if they chamber I'd still shoot them.

[ubetcha]

I think H110 and WW 296 are the same powder.And I think HP38 and WW231 are the same.I cant swaer to it,but the load data looks the same.WW296 and H110 are not recomended for reduced loads.Try the Unique,WW231 or maybe H4227.Depends on bullet weight

[357shooter]

I think H110 and WW 296 are the same powder.And I think HP38 and WW231 are the same.I cant swaer to it,but the load data looks the same.WW296 and H110 are not recomended for reduced loads.Try the Unique,WW231 or maybe H4227.Depends on bullet weightYou are right on the money about the powders being the same. It's kinda confusing to note that W296 advises no reduces loads (I'm thinking 357 here, may not apply), but the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook suggests a reduced H110 load as "potentially the most accurate load" for the 358429. The also say, don't reduce W296.

[Reload3006]

You are right on the money about the powders being the same. It's kinda confusing to note that W296 advises no reduces loads (I'm thinking 357 here, may not apply), but the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook suggests a reduced H110 load as "potentially the most accurate load" for the 358429. The also say, don't reduce W296.

I have noticed this too and I believe or believed how ever that makes sense to you it to be true but I am not entirely sure. I have never heard from Winchester OLIN or Hodgdon that they were the same powder. I know Hodgdon was a re-seller not a manufacturer of powder so I dont know I kind of settled it for myself ans they are different with very similar characteristics. I wouldnt reduce load either and add Accurate arms #9 to that list as well.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

The crimped bullets that you made look really good, but the amount of crimp that you used may be a bit much for lighter loads. Unique is a good powder for the 44 as are certain other powders. How much of any powder is a question best answered by...whatever gives you the best grouping-if you are target shooting or he best performance if you are using your 44's for hunting or silhouette. The "enemy" in shooting big calibers is recoil/kick. It cumulatively tires you/wears you out. You can get used to it with practice, but it takes work....sometimes a lot depending on you the individual and the power of the loads. A way around it is to use lighter loadings and that helps to ward off the inevitable flinching that will develop. So-called plinking loads will help one practice and shoot effectively. Velocities in the 700-900 fps range are ideal for good training. One does not need a heavy crimp to hold the bullet in place for that. I found that 9 grains of IMR 4756 worked very well for me and the 7.0 grains of Green Dot recommended by MT. Gianni is also a good level to work at. With a good manual for reference you can always move up safely and effectively without getting slammed around and flinching. A good scale and powder measure are most essential to good and safe handloading. Beam scales work very well; if you are having difficulties with the Lee scale then go to a different brand that you will be more comfortable with. The handling of powder is the one area that you cannot (afford to) make mistakes in. The 44Mag/Special is an excellent cartridge and you will do well with it. LLS

[desertwheeler]

I'll have to get a puller next time I'm at Sportsman's Warehouse. Blammer, are you careful to not flare your cases much before seating the bullets? Do you use the bullets with the bevel bases? I've read quite a bit about the importance of crimping, especially when using H110. Thanks, LLS. Very helpful info.

[Blammer]

I bell the case mouth as needed to get the boolits in, and my "crimp" basically irons out the flare.

I've always kept the 'crimp it' in the back of my mind, if I can't get good accuracy or I am having bullets staying put issues I'd look at crimping, but I don't have these concerns so I don't crimp.

Maybe because I don't use 110 or 296 I've no need for crimping or to try it. I primarily use 2400 and unique.

[Blammer]

I use pretty much most of these boolits you see here.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/44list-1.jpg

[Ghugly]

Hi guys,
Just a quick thought on recoil and accuracy. I have a .44 Redhawk with a 7 1/2 inch barrel and have been shooting the classic 429421 and 22gr of 2400 through it. The gun is heavy enough that everybody that trys it, likes it. The gun and load is accurate. But not everyone can shoot it well. The targets tell the truth.

I had a hundred or so .44 specials loaded with a custom 162 gr semi-wadcutter over a fairly stiff load of Bullseye that I was trying in my Bulldog. Wasn't worth spit in the Bulldog. Four different people shot them out of the Redhawk and just ripped the center out of the bullseyes. I consider myself to be pretty recoil proof and the Redhawk just doesn't have a lot of recoil, but the 162gr load had almost no recoil at all. I was amazed at the difference in the targets at the end of the day. I really believe that the difference was all in the recoil, boom, flash, etc.

[mdi]

I missed what reloading manual you are using. I would suggest Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook if you are going to shoot lead bullets. Follow the starting load data for the Special and the Magnum with Unique (245 gr. SWC, Special, 6.0 and same bullet in the Magnum at 9.8) and you'll get used to reloading and shooting without the Magnum "bite". I used H110 for a while, but I prefer a less "sensitive" powder and I'm loading my Magnums down to mid range levels and it's a bit more pleasant to shoot...

[Blammer]

I have a RSRH and 19gr of 2400 with 250gr is about all I like, and at about 1350 fps it does JUST fine on deer. :)

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'd like to interject some of my money here , er, maybe just my .02.

First; W296 and H110 ARE the same powder. This is not speculation this is printed fact and if you call Hodgdons they will tell you so. HP-38 and W231 are also identical and there are also a few others. Hodgdons makes most of Winchesters powder, thus the overlaps.


H110 needs to be loaded in enough volumn to insure that the charge is not laying flat on the bottom of the case to insure there is NO Flashover. Flashover is when the charge is ignited from it's side as opposed to it's end liek if the case is less than half full. The result is a larger surface area burning at once, IE the charge burns from side to side as opposed to end to end, which results in a much higher pressure spike. This is obviously dangerous.

Also H110 needs to burn at a higher pressure in order to burn completely, thus the cautions on down loading. A heavy crimp promotes this, as well as holding the bullets that are on deck in place in their cases. Heavy recoil will cause boolits to jump crimp.

22gr of H110 is NOT a heavy load, and is my standard heavy load for both Rifles and Pistols now. My standard 250gr boolit load for many years was 23 gr of H110 and this was down loaded from 24 gr which was called max in the 30 year old Hodgdons Manual I have. I have seen people shoot bigger charges but refuse to follow down that fools path as there is nothing to be gained.

Here's the deal. try some good midrange loads and many have been cited above. 8-9 gr of Unique is a good place to start. These loads will help you learn to shoot a large handgun in a lot more friendly way than anything you can load with H110. Accuracy is more important than power.

The important fact to take out of MY .02 is the fact that it doesn't matter how powerful your loads are if you can't hit anything with them!

I assure ANYTHING that you hit with a 250 gr boolit at AAAAAAAAAAAAny speed will experience a bad day! ONce you get to 1000-1200 fps there is little more to be gained performance wise and alot more recoil and noise to deal with. Also unless you practice alot your accuracy will suffer with the stouter loads.

In short,, that gun will do 95% of what you could possibly want do at 1000fps. The other 5% can be applied to hunting situations or killing small foreign cars if needed.

Incidentially Blammer has the most complete collection of .44 cal boolits I have ever seen, and I would tend to think he is a rather dedicated .44 enthusiast! However I still crimp my .44's so the boolits don't move. Especially in a tube fed rifle.

Like I said ,,,My .02

Randy

[desertwheeler]

Thanks again, all. I am going to load up some rounds with 8.0 grains of Unique and go from there. I'm anxious to see how they feel.

[krag35]

I shot 7.5 gr of Unique with Lyman's 429667 for a long time. shot good. Now I shoot 6.7 gr. Trail Boss with the same boolit. It's plesant to shoot, accurate, and I certianly don't want to try to catch one.

[desertwheeler]

Loaded up a dozen trial rounds with 8.0 gr of Unique. It's been rainy and miserable so I couldn't check for accuracy but I did fire off a few rounds to see what they felt like. Very mild, like specials, and low muzzle flash. I think I'm going to be very happy with these loads and this powder. I appreciate all of the help and coaching. The next step is to start casting....

[Blammer]

Instead of a crimp I test my boolit tension this way.

Take a loaded round and, with your hand take the cartridge and try to push the boolit into the cast by pressing the entire round, nose first, against a hard surface. If you can't do it, you have enough tension. :)

I'm 200lbs 6' tall and have fairly good arm strength. (60 pushups in 60 seconds. :) ) I've not had any issues with boolit set back when testing with this method. Since this works for me, I don't feel the need for crimping, but your results may vary. I'm not against crimping at all, and I feel it does serve a purpose. With H110, I probably would crimp to help ignition and burn.

oh yea, that picture is old, I'll have to update it. I have 5 more boolits that are not shown. :)

[big dale]

First congratulations of the purchase of a great handgun. My first large bore hand gun was my Blackhawk that I bought not too long after my 21 st birthday. That was a 41 with the short barrel. I had it for about 15 years before it was stolen and it took me about three weeks before I found a Super Blackhawk and I have always had at least one of them since then. I like single action revolvers a bunch and the 44 Mag is my favorite. If you are anything like me you will shoot by far most of your rounds with mid-range loads of about 1000 Fps. I also take some full loads everythme I go shooting. I load Herco most of the time for my mid-range loads and 2400 most of the time for my full loads. Like Blammer, the 19 grains of 2400 is about all of that that I can stand. A pair of thin leather shooting gloves with no fingers help with the recoil. Some like the rubber grips, but I don't care for them on single action revolvers. To help with the flinching you might try loading a cylinder with some mid-range loads , some heavy loads and one or two empty chambers. I find it simple to use a red sharpie on the seated primers of the full loads cause they all look the same both full loads and mid-range loads if I don't.

As you get better with the handgun you will be better able to test the loads for accuracy. I work up loads 1/2 grain at a time and check the accuracy. Most of the time the groups will decrease in size up to a point and then get worse. This is simply the gun telling you where to stop. I have never owned a single action Ruger that will not group between 1.5 inch and 2.5 inches at 25 yards with enough load development. I had one Super Blackhawk that would not shoot 2400 very well, but I found that it did like both Blue Dot and H4227. These are things that you only learn by shooting.

I would advise you to go with something like Starline and buy 500 cases that are the same. All brands vary some and that eliminates one of the variables. If I had done that at the start I might have not needed any more cases for a couple of decades. I guess I forgot to mention that I am now 66 years old and have been shooting Magnum pistols for over 40 years. I also don't hear worth a damn anymore. Wear hearing protection! Some of my hearing loss is also from rock music, loud motorcycles, and a couple of decades working around forklifts in warehouses. I am sure at least some of the hearing loss is due to short barreled magnum pistols.

I like my Lee Classic cast turret press. I would suggest that you also try the auto-disc powder measure. I got the double disk kit for mine so it is closely adjustable. You still need to check what it throws with a scale, but it makes life much easier. I find that the chart is seldom exactly correct, but once you figure it out each chamber is very consistant.

I have been buying my lead alloy ingots from Muddy Creek Sam for some time now and will suggest that learning to cast good boolits will present pleanty of challenges and I think that having consistant lead will make life easier while you are learning. It took me quite some time to learn to cast wth consistant quality.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manuels are very good and I find the older ones had a lot of information I still use.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale
.

[Mavrick]

I figure the others are giving you new, Welcome To My Night..., oops, I mean Heaven greetings, so should, too.
You've been shootin' handguns for about a month, now. Good. You chose a ,.44 first? Ok. Ya gotta start SOMEWHERE.
A little piece of advice that MAY head off some problems. Instead of using Special cases, use only Magnum, but... use different brands, one for Special, mid-range loads, and the other for Magnum, full-bore loads, especially since your boolits are the same, at least for now.
As many cases as you can afford is good, but I recommend shooting about 50-100rnds of midrange for every Magnum. Midrange will deliver 90% of what you need, but if you bought a Ferrari to get your groceries, you'd want to stretch 'er legs from time to time, too.
If you shoot that much Special loads, you'd form a ring of lead at the front of the chamber, and it's a pain to remove.
The hint to use about 2% added tin is a lot of help. It sure makes the boolits easier to cast. You can buy it here at Castboolits from RotoMetal.
Using a beam-style scales is far easier that a digital, ESPECIALLY a cheap one! I use a digital, but my level of patience is higher than most. It takes a bit of molly-coddling!
Unique is an excellent, popular powder, as is Red Dot, Green Dot, Accurate #5 and #7, Solo 1000, DuPont 700x and 800x, and Trail Boss. When you step up a little, Blue Dot, HS-6, Herco, Accurate #9, and True Blue will give a bit more performance.
WW296, H110, 2400, VVN110, and 4227 will get you all the performance you can stand.
Load your ammo one at a time, until you can't keep up with your shooting, and you'll gradually get confident and get equipment that'll improve your speed.
Enjoy...you're in for quite a ride, if you stay with it. I started reloading when I was 12years old, and I'm now 64. Nobody in my family reloads, so I did it myself.
Have fun,
Gene

[tuckerdog]

imr4227 will give good vel. and operates at a little less pressure than h110 or 2400. all is subjective to each shooter and individual firearm but alloys that lead a little dont seem to lead as much with lower pressure loads and recoil is different more of a push than flip

[desertwheeler]

Thanks, Blammer, Dale, Gene, and Tuckerdog. Your experience is sure welcome. Right now I'm strictly loading magnum cases. Haven't got to the specials yet, though I do have some brass for them. Today I loaded up 36 rounds with 8.5 gr of Unique. I loaded them very slowly, one at a time, single stage, looking in each case to see the powder levels. Slow but I enjoyed it and I'm getting the hang of it. Meanwhile I've been reading lots from this site and from the lasc site. I'll try the gloves you mention Dale, when I try shooting the hotter stuff again. The milder Unique loads are easy on my hand. I'll follow your suggestion about working up to the most accurate load. Thanks again for all the advice.

[canyon-ghost]

Although Unique is an excellent powder, I use 2400 in full magnum loads. I like Unique for 44 Special okay but, when it comes to loads for 41 magnum, it's 2400.

2400 Magnum Powder is it's full name if you decide to try it out sometime.
Just a thought, Good Luck,
Ron

[Three44s]

Your "reloading" education should have begun with reloading manuals ......... lots of reading ..... LOTS!!

Web sites should be second ...........

You Tube a distant third!

You did get lucky and get a good idea on crimping from You Tube but there is a lot of goofy stuff there ........

Reloading and Goofy don't mix well. Sort of like matches and spilled gas .........

Now ........... put that H110 away for a good while .......... Unique is a good place for you to get your teeth cut for now. In .44 special cases ........... 7.5 gr. ........... in .44 mag cases ....... 8.5gr of Unique is about as good as it gets.

By the time you get to 10 gr. of Unique ......... there are other powders that will treat you better (less recoil and more power!!).

Stick with 8.5 for a GOOD while.

Crimping:

Learn it and like it! You need consistent case length for it to work right. That's where most that don't want to crimp are up to ........... avoiding case triming. Trimming is a PAIN but a necessary one to get good consistent performance in a heavy revolver. Also, think of the degree of crimping needed as being in proportion to the load's performance level: As the power goes up .... the crimp needs a bit more "starch". The neck tension does the main gripping of the bullet but the crimp adds the finnishing touch. Nothing works as good as a crimp to keep the bullet from backing into the case .......... look at yours if you doubt that.

Trust me, you don't want any bullet shift back into the casing. It changes pressures with you being clueless (you can't see it because it's happening inside the cylinder as you are shooting...............very important.

H110, WW 296 and Alliant 2400 are performance powders. You are just not ready for them. When the time comes ......... I'd suggest 2400 (more forgiving) ......... you can load it down some ..... SOME ....... but H110 and WW 296 .......... don't ever play around with those ......... the start charge is just that ........... not the middle ........ and you don't want to go lower than the start with these .......... instead switch to another powder to go lower than those.

With 2400, you want to stick with standard primers for performance loading.

With Unique, you can switch to magnum primers to get a bit cleaner if you are around the 44 special 7.5 gr or .44 mag 8.5 gr. level. That said, I'd recommend that you stick with one case or the other! The reason is that over a bit of time, your .44 specials will leave a "crud ring" in your chambers. When you jump to magnum cases ...... IF you don't completely clean those deposits out you can create a bind on you case and bullet. That can raise pressures. What has happened is that the magnum case mouth/bullet junction is riding up on the .44 special crud ring. A wedge effect.

You don't want that!

There are MANY ........... MANY powders ........... and lots of good ones that can even lower your power level further. AS you have Unique, I'd just stick with it as it seems to agree with your ability to handle recoil.



One more suggestion:

You read all the time about newbies getting into a switch this and that and this and that .........

Don't fall into that trap .......... when you change something .............. leave it at that ..... one change at a time ........ steady wins the race!! Patience grass hopper!!!

Best of luck and welcome to Boolits ........... may your stay be fun, interesting and SAFE!!

Three 44s

[big dale]

Since I am pretty good at spending other people's money and this has turned into a pretty good "advice" thread. I will say that I started loading in the early 60's with a Lee "Bang them out" reloader and never did feel comfortable using a hammer to seat the primers. When they started making the Lee hand priming tool I bought one and liked it so much that I have bought several more as they broke or wore out and continue to do so all these decades later. I particularly like the way I can feel the primer being seated and you just don't get that with any of the press mounted priming tools. This comes in real handy when working up loads for full Max loads. I find that when the primers seat way too easily in the cases that the primer pockets have expanded due to too high of loads and it is past time to back way off.

Another way to tell is to measure fired cases with a micrometer to compare case expansion. Most of us learned that from Ken Waters who wrote for The Handloader for many years. There is a two volume set of books called Pet Loads that is a compilation of his articles on loading for various calibers. It is not cheap, but you will enjoy reading these articles and most of the information is still correct. You can learn a lot from Ken's writing. ESCECAILLY GOOD TECHNIQUES.

In all of these decades of loading for the 44 Magnum, I have never bought a single 44 Special case.

I like that you started with a 44 Magnum. If you stick with it you will find that you come around to my attitude that there is little use for a 357 or other sub-caliber revolver. I don't know how many thousands of bucks I wasted to finaly realize that the rocks you shoot at a local gravel pit just outside town don't care which gun you use to shoot a 200 to 250 grain boolit at about 1000 fps. If you keep it long enough you will find that about the only thatnchanges with it is that the trigger gets smoother once you send about fifty thousand rounds thru the gun.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[desertwheeler]

Well, you guys have sold me on 2400 over H110, but not yet, as you mentioned, three 44s. The 8.5 of Unique is perfect for what I want right now....which is to learn the 44. What kind of case trimmer do you suggest? Can the cases be checked visibly or does one need a micrometer? Ken Waters' books sound great, Big Dale. I didn't buy any 44 special cases...but have 50 from a box of factory ammo I had bought and shot. My first bought cases was a bag of 100 new mags recently at Sportsman's Warehouse. Today in the mail I got my extra turret (on sale at Midway) for the press and a powder funnel. The funnel is going to make reloading much easier. My press kit came with the pro auto disk and safety primer, but I'm not ready to fiddle with them yet. There are a couple of things that I have noticed. Just for the sake of learning I have separated seating and crimping into two steps. Even with the crimp backed way off a thin layer of lead is shaved off the circumference of the bullet when I seat it. It's like the seating chamber is a tad too small. Is this a problem? Also, when I was crimping the new cases it didn't feel smooth like the used cases, and I noticed a real thin (barely visible) sliver of brass was being shaved off, but I'm not sure how or from where. I'll take a pic of the loaded rounds. I think my crimp was pretty mild.

[357shooter]

Well, you guys have sold me on 2400 over H110, but not yet, as you mentioned, three 44s.

Using magnum powders, as you concluded, should wait until you have some experience. When you are ready you should try both 2400 and H110 to see which you prefer. I don't load 44, but in 357 I like H110 more than 2400, you'll find there are handloaders that advocate one or the other.

They are both excellent powders.

[big dale]

Well Desertwheeler, welcome to the world of reloading and constant solving of little problems. I don't know if you have read about some of these things or not so I will suggest that you take a pocket knife and tale the sharp edge off the inside of the case mouth. They make a tool for just about everything, but the pocket knife will do the job. The tool used to cost a buck, so my guess is that by now they cost about 10 or 15 bucks and one tool works on just about every case ever made except for 17 calibers...everything for those 17's requires a special tool. You just want to break the sharp edge of the case mouth. The other bit sounds like you may need to re-adjust your expanding die to where it puts a slightly increased bell on the case mouth. Welcome to one of my least favorite jobs and that is die adjustment. That is just part of it. You will also find that in time your seating die will get gummed up with excess bullet lube and it will have to be re-adjusted on occasion.

My case trimmer is an old Forester that looks like a mini-lathe that I bought way back in the 60's, but I have also used those made by RCBS and Lyman. They all work well. I have an old dial caliper that I use to measure my cases and I see when they need to be trimmed. At the mid-range load I suspect that you will never need to trim them again. My 44 cases don't seem to grow unless I shoot a lot of full loads. Once trimmed you will need to once again break the edge of the inside of the case mouth. When they are all trimmed to the same length then the crimp can be more consistant. You also may want to check out the Lee case trimmers. They are not adjustable so they can't get out of adjustment. I don't use them for any of my autoloader cases because they all seem to come shorter that specified and they don't seem to get any longer.

I sure do like the way revolvers take care of their brass. I reloaded revolver cases for about 15 years before I ever considered getting a case cleaner. I found that only necessary when I started shoot semi-autos a bunch. The sand in the dirt has a hardness of 8 so it is very hard on dies.

As always, Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[462]

For a consistant crimp, all the brass should be trimmed to the same length. Look into Lee's case length gauge and trimmer setup, it's inexpensive and it works. You will also need a deburring/chamfering tool, to clean up the case mouth, after trimming.

Lead shaving, while seating, is due to a case mouth that has not be expanded enough, or not enough. Look into Lyman's M-dies.

(These steps are covered in any reloading manual, please get one.)

[44 flattop]

This was a fun thread to read!

My first pistol back in 1978 when I was 19 years old was a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 mag. It didn't take too much time to come up with the load of 9grs Unique and a 255gr cast SWC for 90% of my shooting. I ended up taking quite a few elk with the same bullet and 17.5grs of 2400 over the years. Velocity was a leisurely 1225fps but that bullet always exited elk.

Over the next 25 years I went through a lot of bullet weights and designs, also many many different powders and primers. Now, 33 year later I find myself back to 9grs of Unique behind the same 255gr SWC for 99% of my pistol work and W296 for my heavy .44 mag rifle loads with the same cast bullet. Those two powders and one single bullet handles 99.999% of my .44 mag needs up to and including elk.

44

[desertwheeler]

That info gives me something to work with on my little reloading issues. Thanks!

44, I appreciate your comments, and I would love to do exactly that....hunt deer and elk. At least I'm in the right geographical place for it, but I've got some work ahead to get ready. Some friends just went for their annual elk hunt and gave us all that was left over in their freezer from last year. I grew up eating wild meat (but it was down in S. America) and have a real taste for it. We currently raise goats and I butchered one not long ago. Thought I was in heaven eating that meat. To me a gun is ultimately a hunting tool (but is fun for other stuff too). I think the 44 magnum is a pretty darn near perfect gun. When I bought my first handgun (a 357) a little over a month ago, it didn't take long for me to know I just had to get a 44 as well.

[44 flattop]

I think the 44 magnum is a pretty darn near perfect gun. When I bought my first handgun (a 357) a little over a month ago, it didn't take long for me to know I just had to get a 44 as well.
Yer Preachin' to the choir, desertwheeler! In MY opinion, it is THE perfect gun!

I've been hunting with a .44 revolver, T/C and rifle for near 35 years. Over that time I've taken dozens of elk, many many dozens of deer , not to mention bear, coyotes, grouse, bunnies, snakes and a few other critters all with the .44.

There are bigger guns, smaller guns, flatter shooting guns. But for me over the past 4 decades the .44 has gotten whatever job done I ever needed. Can't say much more than that.

44

[Ole]

Desertwheeler:

If you're in the Phoenix/metro area and want to meet up with someone who has been reloading for 25+ years (me), give me a holler via PM.

Maybe someone who has some experience could help you out on details that you may have overlooked. I don't mind mentoring new reloaders if they are willing to listen.

[desertwheeler]

over the past 4 decades the .44 has gotten whatever job done I ever needed. Can't say much more than that.

That's what I like to hear....

Ole, pm sent.

[desertwheeler]

For better or for worse these are the guns I ended up with over the past two months. I had no previous handgun experience and didn't know what I was getting into. All were bought used except the Taurus and the SBH. (No more gun buying for a looong time....really blew the budget....) These are in the order I acquired them.

First came the DW 357. It came with two wooden handles.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hsswHQBluaE/TrfmRTAaApI/AAAAAAAAZ20/jHQdrJBhqeE/s800/P1030652-1.JPG

Then I got this Taurus .22 LR. I love this little gun and it's real accurate. Though I'd happily get rid of the rubber handle.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NkvMbLJ_8fY/Trfi1yxIm8I/AAAAAAAAZ1E/cHu6VExp4Zk/s800/P1030838-1.JPG

Next came the S&W Model 29-6. I replaced the rubber Hogue handle with a wooden one.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ylhq5rudpDM/TrfirqLoQZI/AAAAAAAAZzs/G-xKSRovHTE/s800/P1030780-1.JPG

And finally the SBH, my favorite...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wcr8HAwo6yY/TtOF997QHYI/AAAAAAAAZ6Q/9-Sx5a3m0Pk/s800/P1040091-1.JPG

[Blammer]

Sweet!

[big dale]

I am still trying to figure out why I never bought a Dan Wesson. Three or four other members of a club I was in back in the late 80's had them in 44 for the steel rams and they all shot great. At the time I was very happy with my Super Blackhawk and a couple of Redhawks one of which was in 41 mag.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[desertwheeler]

See what a greenhorn I am? I call them "handles" instead of "grips." :groner:

There's a Dan Wesson in .22 caliber for sale at the gun shop right now. It's in excellent condition and the price isn't bad. It's very tempting. I think I'd like to own one in .44 magnum too...Man, there's no end to this addiction....:lovebooli

And now there's a lightly used .44 special for a good price. If I can pull it off (I really shouldn't), I'm going to get it.

I got to go out today to really test the Unique loads. I live a little less than 10 miles from national forest, so that's where I went. It takes me half an hour to get out there though because the road isn't the best and I'm driving an old Toyota minivan. It's beautiful country out here.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-PjMxJ5v0k34/TuP5jWRZSpI/AAAAAAAAZ90/Ybva3mzThfQ/s800/P1040177-1.JPG

I set up the target 15 yards away and started shooting. I ended up having to adjust the rear sight all the way down and the gun still shoots high. Not sure what I can do about that. So here are my last two rounds (six shots and four for the last one) with the SBH without resting on anything. Not too great, but a whole lot better than my first couple times out with the .44. I accidentally loaded in a hot H110 round and it sure gave me a surprise.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U-RRoy43ReE/TuP5jBtzN2I/AAAAAAAAZ9s/GX6FH4tnsdA/s800/P1040178-1.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IlXR0Au7_Rk/TuP5nVM8gZI/AAAAAAAAZ-c/7fHrtTbJ_2I/s800/P1040193-1.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-otXKy1ERLZg/TuP5oaEGFPI/AAAAAAAAZ-k/6piHW4te8Ao/s800/P1040194-1.JPG

When I ran out of .44 ammo, just for kicks I shot off six rounds of .357 factory magnums SJHP. The muzzle blast seemed higher from them than the .44's. That DW sure is a sweet gun to shoot. Again, not the best group, but I'm just getting started.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--Oa-sZx2dfU/TuP5o_2CEiI/AAAAAAAAZ-s/YeZb988Zuak/s800/P1040195-1.JPG

(A long aside...Yesterday after work I drove to a distant part of the city to pick up a boxer we found on Craig's list. This is the third one we've gotten that way. I can't recommend it as a way to get dogs. You can assume the people getting rid of the dog are lying. They always charge $50, which isn't much for a purebred dog, but it is if the dog has problems....and they usually do. Our first one was a keeper. We loved him right from the start. A couple of our kids were born while we had him. I loved taking him out in the desert for long walks. Sometimes he would be bad and chase deer or rabbits, but he would always come back tongue hanging out and panting. The second one wasn't a good family dog but she worked out great for some friends of ours. Then about a month ago an old man ran over our beloved boxer and killed him. We were all completely devastated. So to replace him we got this one I picked up last night. She is paranoid, obviously was abused, won't let me get near her. Last night I got up and she started growling at me. Not a good sign. We still have little ones in the house. We've watched lots of Cesar Milan so I've been working with her. Hopefully we can rehabilitate her.)

Anyway, the place where I picked up the dog was near Sportsman's Warehouse, so I had to stop by. I got a cheap little Lee primer hole cleaner, and a Lyman puller. I pulled those two bullets I seated too deeply. I pulled the first one a bit too much, but the second one was just about right.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xkJAl0_EvOY/TuP5qlQYrOI/AAAAAAAAZ-8/IaleeIfOmiE/s800/P1040201-1.JPG

Here are three of the rounds I was shooting. I used new Winchester brass. It was all they had. I don't think they were all the same length because some of them wouldn't crimp (see the one on the right). I was going for a pretty light crimp on these. I'd like to get by with as little crimp as necessary to prolong the brass life.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r4L0Oj714K0/TuP5kf5LNBI/AAAAAAAAZ98/qti11L-A1xM/s800/P1040181-1.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ExqFZKAxrxw/TuP5l27R51I/AAAAAAAAZ-M/gLf7lfc3bRM/s800/P1040185-1.JPG

[desertwheeler]

Today I went to the gun shop and picked up a new Ruger .44 special flattop. I traded the used S&W Model 29 I had for it. Speaking strictly of value, they got a better deal, but they're a business trying to make profit. As far as satisfaction goes however, I ended up with the better deal. I shot the M29 a dozen times with factory mags, and almost through a box of specials. I hated the way the magnums felt in it....downright painful. The SBH comparatively was a pleasure to shoot. When I first got it, I promptly shot the rest of the box of factory mags I had, and was ready for more. I couldn't see myself using the M29 now that I have the SBH. After reading quite a bit about the 44 special, I knew that would be a much better choice for me, something I would use a lot, and nice complement to the SBH. It's blued with the 5 1/2 inch barrel. I very much look forward to using this gun along with the SBH.

[desertwheeler]

I wanted to give a little update. Last time I got out with my .44 I was hitting high with it (at 15 yards) despite lowering the rear sight all the way. That was with the 8.5 grains of Unique. Reading online I found some who said I needed to load hotter; others said that would make no difference and I just needed to shoot at a greater distance. Still not sure who is right. The guy at my local gun shop sided with those who said I needed to load hotter, that the bullet wasn't making it out of the barrel fast enough so the recoil was causing it shoot high.

Anyway, I loaded up a bunch of rounds with 9.0 grains of Unique and got out today to try them. I should have set up at 15 yards to test that theory, but I didn't. I put my target at 33 yards. I've been thinking a lot about proper shooting form, so I was determined to do better. I wanted each shot to go off as a surprise. These are my first six shots with the SBH. I was resting against a large rock. I was happy when I saw the target. Next I shot off six rounds free hand at a can also at 33 yards. I hit it 5 out of 6 times. That made me very happy.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XelXu0lR8V0/TvJxvAlXJJI/AAAAAAAAaBA/sYvbT-d3ip8/s800/P1040300-1.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4D6DiWJR3gI/TvJxwSGNzFI/AAAAAAAAaBM/eRTdILzXfhY/s800/P1040305-1.JPG

After that I shot my .44 special BH the rest of the time. These were my first reloads with it....7.0 grains of Unique. They were snappy. The gun is lighter than the SBH, so that was part of it I'm sure. I compared them to the factory rounds I had and they were definitely more powerful. I finally got the special sighted in. It was doing the opposite of the SBH and hitting low. Here's the can after the special got through with it. Not much left.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Lkb5Un_pTcs/TvJx51_HvKI/AAAAAAAAaB4/YygY-yJlpLI/s800/P1040309-1.JPG

The 7.0 grain special rounds seemed to be as powerful as the 9.0 grain rounds....to my untrained judgment. I also noticed a huge difference between the triggers of the two guns. The SBH trigger was smooth and seemed to be the proper weight. The BH trigger was much stiffer and was more of a challenge to shoot properly.

Anyway, I had a wonderful time and felt like I finally am connecting with these guns....and actually hitting targets!

[canyon-ghost]

My nephew (12 yrs. old) sure liked my 44 Flattop at Thanksgiving. They're nice revolvers!

[JIMinPHX]

This thread may be of interest - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=81258

It shows quite a bit on the differences between Unique & H-110 in a .44.

[MtGun44]

No offense, but "The RCBS will not be any more accurate than the Lee" is a pretty broad
statement that is, IME VERY often NOT the case.

Plus - given the vagarities of individual guns and examples of molds, I'd say that this
broad a statement has much more chance of being false than of being true. It may
be very true for one person with one gun and comparing two particular molds, but I
disagree that it is ever going to be generally true, regardless of the brands used in
the claim. I'd never say that " the X brand will not be any more accurate than the Y brand"
with any conviction as a general principle.

IME I'd say 7 or 8 times out of 10 the RCBS is better than the Lee, but that strongly
depends on the gun and the molds.

Also - +1 for what roysha and Larry said. 10 gr of Unique.

Bill

[44 flattop]

Good to see the 9grs of Unique worked out better for you! Being confident in our gun/load is what its all about.

I like those little .44 special flattop also, picked up 3 before the wife caught on. I guess I'll stick with three for a while.........!

I use 9grs in my .44 Mag Flattop and 7 1/2grs in my .44 special. Not only can I not tell much if any difference but they both hit to the same point of aim out to about 80 yards in my .44 mag. Killed two deer in the past two years with the .44 special load from my rifle too!

44

[JIMinPHX]

No offense, but "The RCBS will not be any more accurate than the Lee" is a pretty broad
statement that is, IME VERY often NOT the case.


Bill,
I'm not looking to disagree with you, but I would appreciate it if you would list the reasons that you think make the RCBS dies better. I have very limited experience with RCBS dies. The one set that I have scratches cases if I don't polish the dies out regularly. I got those dies second hand, so I may have been buying someone else's problems when I got them & I realize that. I've had nothing but good luck with Lee dies (that I bought new). If the RCBS stuff is generally better, I'd kind of like to find out more about it.

Thanks,
Jim

[desertwheeler]

Jim, I read the thread you referenced. Some of it was interesting, some entertaining, and much of it was beyond my puny brain. Thanks for pointing me to it.

Being so new to handguns, I played some more "musical guns" today. I traded in my stainless SBH for a blued .45 convertible BH (I wouldn't have chosen the convertible, but it was all they had). I have to find what's "right" for me. The SBH didn't feel right for several reasons. For one I'm not a fan of stainless. And my .44 special BH felt so much better in my hand. Something about the SBH handle configuration did not feel nearly as good as the BH. The BH feels like it "belongs" in my grip. The .45 BH has the same feel. I'll keep reloading and shooting my .44 special, but now I get to learn to load for the .45 also and I like what I've been reading about its potential.

Today we also stopped at the bookstore. I had been given a gift certificate. I looked for reloading manuals since some of you guys keep telling me I HAVE to get one. And I'm not disagreeing. All they had was Hornady's "Reloading for Handgunners" by Patrick Sweeney, so for better or for worse that's what I got.

[canyon-ghost]

What's right for you, is right for you. No arguing that. I always wanted Herrett hunting grips on my Contenders and found I couldn't use them. I can shoot the stock Competitor grips better.

I'm a fan of the Blackhawks also, 44 Special and 41 magnum, love the Blackhawks!

[odfairfaxsub]

i know im chiming in late.........we just shot my dads gun with 240 gr bullets (lead) with 5.8 grains of bullseye.........economical and no kick at all and groups the size of my hand at 20 yards. at 100 yards your same gun will hit a paper plate everytime. not bad

[singleshot]

Bill,
I'm not looking to disagree with you, but I would appreciate it if you would list the reasons that you think make the RCBS dies better. I have very limited experience with RCBS dies. The one set that I have scratches cases if I don't polish the dies out regularly. I got those dies second hand, so I may have been buying someone else's problems when I got them & I realize that. I've had nothing but good luck with Lee dies (that I bought new). If the RCBS stuff is generally better, I'd kind of like to find out more about it.

Thanks,
Jim

I've had better results with Lee dies than RCBS and I've bought ALL my dies new exept for an Ideal set in 32 SW Long. My new RCBS dies gave similar results to JIMinPHX, scratching cases, and in bottleneck carts, caving in shoulders when set per RCBS instructions. Not a statistically significant sample size, but, I've never had these problems with any of my Lee dies. If this is an anomaly, I too would like to find out more about it.