JM Marlin Ballard #5 Pacific in 45-70

[Hang Fire]

After pestering my neighbor for years, he finally sold me this beautiful JM Marlin Ballard #5 Pacific in 45-70. I have only shot it a little, but am amazed at accuracy of the rifle.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010262.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010264.jpg

[herbert buckland]

Thar something worth waiting years for

[Piedmont]

That thing is beautiful. You have good taste.

[NickSS]

I have one of them that was both rebored and restocked by someone in the past. I do not like the stock and want someday to get it restocked but it currently is in 45-70 and is one of the most accurate rifles I own. Those ballards were noted for good accuracy in the old days so I am hot surprised that yours shoots good. Yours is also a lot nicer looking than mine so I am envious. Maybe a new stock would make me less so???

[6.5 mike]

Very nice, I never see anything like that around here. You did good on that & the Colt. [smilie=w::popcorn:

[Hang Fire]

Very nice, I never see anything like that around here. You did good on that & the Colt. [smilie=w::popcorn:

You are sure right, could not believe got the two for that price, but he set it.

The Colt on another thread:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=134436

I know the ballard is a weaker single shot action than a Sharps or Win Hi-Wall, so intend to stay with holy black, subs, or low pressure smokeless loads. I tried some American Pioneer powder, it was accurate but after a few shots noticed a crud ring forming right in front of the chamber, so no more of that.

Am thinking Trail Boss as have a good supply. If some of you guys use other powders for 45-70 low pressure loads, would appreciate your input.

[KCSO]

Remember black powder loads only these are NOT strong actions. I relined and re stocked my friends 38-55 years ago and it is one of his favorites.

[Hang Fire]

I have one of them that was both rebored and restocked by someone in the past. I do not like the stock and want someday to get it restocked but it currently is in 45-70 and is one of the most accurate rifles I own. Those ballards were noted for good accuracy in the old days so I am hot surprised that yours shoots good. Yours is also a lot nicer looking than mine so I am envious. Maybe a new stock would make me less so???



What model is your Ballard? I understand the, #4 1/2, #5 Pacific and Montana were some models that were chambered for the more powerfull big bore cartridges of the day.

Have you removed the buttstock on yours?

I wanted to take buttstock off and soak the action to remove encrusted crud and dirt. But after removing the long stock bolt (screw) it still won't budge. Unlessing missing something, can see no mechanical reason for it not to free up. I don't want to get western with it and damage.

[Chill Wills]

HangFire,
If you use the fake BP think about re-cleaning the rifle a few days later. I know people who learned the hard way. Not saying there will always be a bad outcome from that stuff but it can be a real problem. Remember, Black Powder is only hydroscopic, it cleans easly with water and best of all, when it is clean it is clean.

BTW- Very Nice #5 Ballard - enjoy!:drinks:

[BrentD]

Yes, you have a fine fine rifle there. Maybe the best hunting BPCR of all time.

I rather like mine:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Antelope/Antelope%20buck%202010%20small.jpg

[Hang Fire]

[QUOTE=BrentD;1480804]Yes, you have a fine fine rifle there. Maybe the best hunting BPCR of all time.

I rather like mine:9QUOTE]

Yours looks great, from pic will definitely kill a goat, would you share the particulars on the hunt? What caliber is it in?

I don't hunt the bigger game much anymore, but know my son-in-law in Cody, WY will be taking some animals with it.

Did the sights originally come with it? I am looking at getting a receiver folder for mine, but the off the shelf good sights are rather pricey, so will start snooping the gun shows.

[BrentD]

That antelope was taken in 2010 in Wyoming at about 125 yds. I also killed two does on that trip at 140 and 200 yds. This year I took a second buck at 140 yds in WY. I have taken it elking but never pulled the trigger.

I use only paper patched bullets and blackpowder in this case 70 grs of Swiss 1.5 fg and a 475 gr paper patched bullet.

The rear sight is original but the front sight is a Lyman MVA (about $40 I suppose). I have the original but don't like it so much. I have it handy to replace them Lyman though.

In your search for a tang sight, you will probably not easily find an original at a gun show, or anywhere else. If you do, they might cost 50% of the value of your rifle. Maybe a bit less, but not a lot. They are pricey as originals.

I strongly suggest that you either buckle under and pay for a new make - the better ones like MVA's are absolutely superb and worth every penny.

An alternative is to find and buy a second rifle and take the sight off of it, and sell the rifle for close what you paid for it. This is a good route, but takes extreme patience. I don't have it.


Here is a couple photos from this year's hunt

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Antelope/2011%20Antelope%20Buck%20and%20Ballard.JPG


The exit hole from a quartering frontal shot at 140 yds.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Antelope/2011%20Antelope%20Buck%20Exit%20Hole%20small.jpg

[Hang Fire]

That antelope was taken in 2010 in Wyoming at about 125 yds. I also killed two does on that trip at 140 and 200 yds. This year I took a second buck at 140 yds in WY. I have taken it elking but never pulled the trigger.

I use only paper patched bullets and blackpowder in this case 70 grs of Swiss 1.5 fg and a 475 gr paper patched bullet.

The rear sight is original but the front sight is a Lyman MVA (about $40 I suppose). I have the original but don't like it so much. I have it handy to replace them Lyman though.

In your search for a tang sight, you will probably not easily find an original at a gun show, or anywhere else. If you do, they might cost 50% of the value of your rifle. Maybe a bit less, but not a lot. They are pricey as originals.

I strongly suggest that you either buckle under and pay for a new make - the better ones like MVA's are absolutely superb and worth every penny.

An alternative is to find and buy a second rifle and take the sight off of it, and sell the rifle for close what you paid for it. This is a good route, but takes extreme patience. I don't have it.

Good shooting and that is a nice buck, what part of WY were you hunting? We lived there for 13 years , got transferred down to Cody from Alaska, then to Rawlins, then to CA and back to Cody, where I retired in 1991. I haven't tried any paper patching for the 45-70 yet, but will get around to it.

I have been pricing original sights online and you are right, they are expensive. For just a few bucks I put a Pedersoli hooded front sight on a flinter I have and it gives a good sight pic. It is a fine bead post and adjustable for elevation, which I found strange.

I lucked out with my Ballard, got both it and a 1886 vintage 1873 Colt SA Frontier Six Shooter in .44-40 for 1200 bucks. The Colt has external wear, but mechanically locks up tight with a very good bore, Almost bowled me over when he quoted the price for them.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010259.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010258.jpg

[BrentD]

$1200! that is the deal of the century. Your rifle is worth 2.5 times that by itself. No kidding. I have no idea what the revolver is worth but probably that much or more.

I was hunting out by Riverton mostly. Did kill a doe antelope with a flintlock that I built, but mostly I hunted with the Ballard.

Brent

[Hang Fire]

I thought it a very good deal too, but he set the price.

was looking last night and found couple sights I might give a try.

This is a reproduction of the Ballard tang sight, not adjustable for windage as was the original, the 1 1/8" center to center holes are correct. I figure for 65 bucks if it don't pan out, not much lost.

http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/Images/Photos//marlin_jpg.jpg


Marlin/Marlin-Ballard Tang Sight
Model Number: SIT1101
This is a reproduction of the original Marlin/Ballard tang sights. The steel base is 1 11/16” long, hole spacing is 1.125” center to center. The staff measures 3”, Vernier scale engraved on the side and the eye disc is tightened to secure adjustment. Nicely blued. Will work for any Marlin or Marlin-Ballard’s. Original mounting screws included.

$64.95

http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/store.aspx?panel=3&categoryid=67&ProductID=425

This is a Windage adjustable front sight for 80 bucks from same source, but looks a little rough to me.

http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/Images/Photos//SIT007.JPG

Globe front sight with windage, Winchester Reprodu
Model Number: SIT1065
Originally used on the Winchester High/Low Walls but will work in any application that requires a 3/8” dovetail.

$79.95


The is a reproduction of the Beech windage adjustable front sight for $105.00, It is made in the Ukraine and is supposed to be pretty good, so think I will go with it.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/ItemMedia/10024/10024_44515.jpg

A reproduction of the old #8 windage adjustable beech combination front sight. This should prove to be a popular sight. The over-size German silver blade is made to be shaped to suit your personal taste.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163928&CAT=4074

[BrentD]

The tang sight you are looking at is probably not great, but might suffice if it has a true vernier scale on the side. Maybe it does, maybe not.

Not all Marlin Ballard sights have windage. Mine does not. For hunting that is fine.

Had a Beech once. Though there were over rated. Esp with windage mechanisms on any type of front sight that to hang up on everything from gun cases to sagebrush. But they are one of those things that yo have to try yourself first. Ditto on that Winchester globe sight the spring clip is not a field-friendly design.

Just for the heck of it, look at a Lyman 17a. Available many places. If you want something a bit more svelte but of the same genre, then Heilman makes a good one as do others, for a bit more money. They do away with the clips and use a screw-in system to be sure that your sight insert is secure. For a bit more money, the Distant Thunder midrange is top of the line.

Brent

[Hang Fire]

Just for the heck of it, look at a Lyman 17a. Available many places. If you want something a bit more svelte but of the same genre, then Heilman makes a good one as do others, for a bit more money. They do away with the clips and use a screw-in system to be sure that your sight insert is secure. For a bit more money, the Distant Thunder midrange is top of the line.

Brent


The tang sight I was considering from Jeff’s Outfitters has been on BO for over a year. Jeff said the guy in Italy who had been making the tang sights for him over 20 years had retired and he had about quit machining them anymore.

The only one made by Marbles for Ballards with the 1.25” hole spacing is the mar009827, so ordered it and followed your advice and have a Lyman 17 ATC coming. The 17ATC has a height of .852” and with the Marbles having a short post, might be problematic, but wanted to insure would clear the original rear open sight as didn’t want to remove it. I can get a longer threaded stem from Buffalo Arms for about 7 bucks and have a guide as to changing them out, which is bit of a task.

This is a good guide for anyone thinking of working on a Marbles tang sight: http://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4045&view=next

In case anyone is interested, this is the Marbles spec sheet on all their tang sights, found it very informative: http://www.marblearms.com/standardPeepTang_info.html

[Jon K]

Hangfire,

The Italian repro tang sight you're looking at does not have a true vernieer scale. The lines on some of them, can hardly been seen in parts of the scale.
I have re-cut the scale to true scale value, and they are sufficient for hunting, or plinking, but not for serious target competition. I have used them on some old Marlin leverguns.
I probably have one sitting around here that I have recut the scale, if you're interested...PM me.

Jon

[Hang Fire]

Hangfire,

The Italian repro tang sight you're looking at does not have a true vernieer scale. The lines on some of them, can hardly been seen in parts of the scale.
I have re-cut the scale to true scale value, and they are sufficient for hunting, or plinking, but not for serious target competition. I have used them on some old Marlin leverguns.
I probably have one sitting around here that I have recut the scale, if you're interested...PM me.

Jon

PM sent.

[Jon K]

The 17ATC is kinda tall. Try the 17AHB .404" tall or the 17AML .494" tall.

My choice for sights on that Ballard, would be Baldwin or MVA, but probably more money than you want to spend....but worth every penny.

Jon