Swagging is very confusing.

[Josh45]

I just actually found out about this tonight and watched a video about it. It seems easy enough but I am very confused as to what I would need to make .45 ACP.
I have read some of the threads here and seen some other links but am rather still confused about everything.

Is there a book I can buy or even rent at a local library to get exact details?
I want to make .45 ACP and I would like to try this for my fathers 30-30 as well.

To my understanding, springback would cause a .451 to end up being a .452. I would like for it to be .451 and the 30-30 would be a .308 if I am not mistaken.

So, If anyone can tell me exactly how to make them, It would be great or a book for much more understanding. I am not a machinest nor do I own a lathe or anything like that so the simpler, The better!

If it helps any, I would like to make the 150 gr for the 30-30 for now and try the 200 Gr HP for the .45 ACP for now. As I start to understand better, I would like to try the other weights and shapes. Or what would be best for a beginner? I have about 80 lbs or so of Lead Ingots I have from WW but I have no molds to actually cast them into boolits. If that matters?

Thanks for any help.

[Reload3006]

It is confusing because there are so many ways about how to make a bullet by Squeezing it into shape. Swaging you can make a pure lead or lead alloy bullet or your can make a jacketed bullet. You can use copper tubing copper sheet to or cartridge brass to make your jackets. or you can some times buy your jackets. If you hawk ebay and some of the other online auction sites you can find jackets for sale.
Ok you said you wanted to make.452? 45acp? 40 S&W brass makes excelent bullets and you have several options as to what you need.

You of course need a good press you can go the CH4D route. I am told that Dave has suspended his Swage die line for a while. He is trying to catch up on special order cartridge dies. But you can get a set of his dies reasonably priced. BT sniper on here modifys them or you can go Larry Blackmon , RCE LLC Corbin Dutze Neimi all make excelent swage equipment. as far as reading a very good place to read about it is www.rceco.com www.corbins.com unfortunately there is not a lot of books out there about swaging .. Corbin has a book out there that your library may be able to order for you or you may find one on some of the book auction sites.

[Josh45]

Thanks for replying and with the tips. Im sorry about the .452 thing. I meant I wanted .451. I want to try making jacketed rounds. I have been watching some people on youtube using .40 S&W brass in order to make them but like I said, Im watching it. Lol.

I also read about BT dies and they seemed to be pretty good. I also checked out the CH4D and were a bit cheaper I have to admit. I was looking to make my own tho.
I forgot his name but he said you can make this die for swaging with a lee die body?

[Reload3006]

the .451 some people are using old fl size dies like a .243 win to form their bullets. they make a few modified punches for the ram and they make some ejector punches for the top of the dies. The .308 I'm not sure how easy it would be to go that route. but I wouldn't say it was impossible. Check out a book from the library called cartridges of the world and see if there is one that will give you a .308 diameter finish. Other than that for the 30 caliber CH4D may be your best and least expensive route. .. if you find a cartridge that is a few thousandths over you may be able to run the finished bullet through a Lee sizing die and get your final dimension that way I don't know.

[DukeInFlorida]

BT Sniper already has his 45 ACP tool set listed for sale. I would refer you to:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=117577

Scroll down and look for:
Heavy duty improved CH-4d 2 die set $385
available in 30/32 cal pistol, .357, .400, .410, .429 and .451 subject to CH in stock avialblity

The .451 is listed there, and is exactly what you are looking for. Brian will supply you with a great "cookbook" method for making them. It's actually very easy, and once you have tried it, it's not confusing at all.

[GRUMPA]

Well I just did a review on the die set and finished product. I don't know if you read it yet but here's the link.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=132183

If you have any questions about it feel free to type something in and with all the knowledge from other members you wont be short on answers. It really is simpler than one could imagine, I for one just love the results.

[cgtreml]

I just actually found out about this tonight and watched a video about it. It seems easy enough but I am very confused as to what I would need to make .45 ACP.
I have read some of the threads here and seen some other links but am rather still confused about everything.

Is there a book I can buy or even rent at a local library to get exact details?
I want to make .45 ACP and I would like to try this for my fathers 30-30 as well.

To my understanding, springback would cause a .451 to end up being a .452. I would like for it to be .451 and the 30-30 would be a .308 if I am not mistaken.

So, If anyone can tell me exactly how to make them, It would be great or a book for much more understanding. I am not a machinest nor do I own a lathe or anything like that so the simpler, The better!

If it helps any, I would like to make the 150 gr for the 30-30 for now and try the 200 Gr HP for the .45 ACP for now. As I start to understand better, I would like to try the other weights and shapes. Or what would be best for a beginner? I have about 80 lbs or so of Lead Ingots I have from WW but I have no molds to actually cast them into boolits. If that matters?

Thanks for any help.

Here is a link you can follow. This is a pdf. file of Corbin's Handbook of Bullet Swaging #9. Lots of info. Its free on Corbin's web site but can be a bit confusing to navigate. Anyway follow this link and download it to your computer. If you have a hard time sleeping some night try reading the whole thing in one sitting.
http://www.swage.com/ebooks/hb9-text.pdf

Have fun

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

the .451 some people are using old fl size dies like a .243 win to form their bullets. they make a few modified punches for the ram and they make some ejector punches for the top of the dies.

Really ?
I've never heard of that.
but it sure seems doable.
Jon

[Reload3006]

Really ?
I've never heard of that.
but it sure seems doable.
Jon

here is a linc to a guy thats doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy19DVW6jbE

[Josh45]

Thanks a lot for the threads. I didn't read the one Grumpa linked to because I never found it. That did help quite a bit but Im still gonna research it some more. I would love to try this out and might go the CH4D route. I have a 30-06 thats begging to come home first...

Thanks a lot for the info and please keep it coming.


What I still don't understand is how people understand what they need to trim brass to in order to get the right length? I would like to actually use a copper tubing for something like this rather than brass caseing as well.....My father wouldn't like it to much if I used all his 40 cases :D

[DukeInFlorida]

There's no exact science for how long the raw material (either copper tubing or .40 cases) need to be in order to have the bullets work out to be correct when swaged. That's where the art part of the hobby kicks in.

It just takes a little experimenting to get it right.

[Josh45]

I see.....Hmm....One more question.

I was looking at CH4D and I happen to notice them saying that the 105 dies are a one step operation? Meaning I would only need that one die?

I was also thinking about just ordering the main parts required and using die blanks. Would that work?

[Reload3006]

I see.....Hmm....One more question.

I was looking at CH4D and I happen to notice them saying that the 105 dies are a one step operation? Meaning I would only need that one die?

I was also thinking about just ordering the main parts required and using die blanks. Would that work?
It would work if you have the machinery and know how to machine the bullet Ojive etc into the die.

the 105 die is indeed a one step die but you loose a lot of flexibility with it. you are limited to half jacketed and pure lead. but it will make a lot of bullets for you very economically .. One big problem is finding half jackets ... they are almost non existent .. you can find old ones on ebay but they command a hefty price. or you can use cartridge cases for your jackets but they require a lot of work too.
good luck

[DukeInFlorida]

If you choose the perfect empty case ( 9mm makes a perfect case for .40 S&W bullets, for example) and the right core, then yes, you could use the CD-4D right out of the box, in your press, and swage some bullets.

But, for the same $$$ invested, why not avoid all the experimentation, and buy a tool set already designed to take you from one case size to a swaged bullet in a MINIMAL amount of steps?

The term swaging, refers to using mechanical force to push lead/metal into a shape to form a bullet.

So, as Reload3006 points out, some people use the 101 dies from CH4D to just put a slug of lead in the die, swage it, and you have a bullet. Really the same as pouring molten lead into a mold.

What we have all been pursuing is the further refinement of using either copper or brass (in some form) to make a jacket for the lead bullet core. It then becomes the function of the additional dies to get the jacket into form and shape, so that a lead core can be properly seated, and then the final assembly swaged into final shape and size. That's what makes it a bit more tricky.

Don't mean to scare you away. With the proper die set, you can easily swage some neat bullets. If you do some in depth reading here, you'll see the tool sets, and the results.

The 105 and the 101 tool sets from CH4D won't get you a jacketed bullet, without some tweaking of a process.

[Josh45]

Alright. Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. And no, Don't worry, Your not scaring me away. Lol

Takes a bit more than that. I was hoping the die set would be all I truly needed but then again it would be to easy I guess. It's ok tho, It looks like a fun process none the less.

Ill probably break and just buy them.