Faster than one at a time?

[armed_partisan]

Hey fellas, I got a question: What's the fastest way to size multiple hundreds of bullets?
I have several four cavity molds, I have multiple presses, including progressives (which I don't like but use for some things), I can do multiple things at once for every step of the process EXCEPT sizing and lubing. I can see that pan lubing is popular here, although I've never tried it. I've used tumble lubing in the past, but it tends to make a mess of the dies is my only real complaint. The real bottle neck is sizing each bullet individually. Any ideas? Is there a faster method than pan lubing?

[fryboy]

yes ... first in mind for ease is the tumble lubes ... both LLA and rooster jacket do work , the latter is perhaps more ummm speed/pressure limited , while LLA works i found the smell and the tack a lil offensive ( but hey they shot great right ? lolz ) finding recluse's recipe was a godsend !!! no tack, less ummm aroma and they dry fast and shoot great , there are several options in the middle but they all require sizing one at a time [shrugz] of these the star is hands down the fastest ( by way ) if you can find a mold and alloy that doesnt need sizing you'll be ahead in the game , my 4 cavity 452-374 for instance doesnt need sized ( unless i make it with a hard alloy ) and i can lube and go , if i make it with soft alloy my .451 die barely kisses it for instance

[NoZombies]

A star sizer only sizes one at a time, but it's exceptionally fast.

[fredj338]

A star sizer only sizes one at a time, but it's exceptionally fast.

Yep, the ultimate bullet sizer/luber by far. I can do 1200/hr easily on mine once it is setup & ready to go.

[mdi]

In my limited experience, sizing is done one bullet at a time. (at least for home casters, I have no idea how large commercial casters do it). Wheather using a lubersizer or pan lubing and a Lee sizer, it's one at a time, but I do remember seeing a pneumatic Star type sizer cycling pretty fast. One "speedy" method would be to cast bullets (vary alloy and "hone" mold to cast bullets exact size for your gun) and tumble lube w/o sizing. I have a mold that will drop my .38 special bullets at .358" so I don't need to size them. I tumble lube with 45-45-10 and/or xlox thinned with mineral spirits and don't have a mess or sticky problem.

[armed_partisan]

Thanks for the input, fellas. When I first started, I couldn't afford a lubrisizer, and shot all the molds I had as cast/Lee Tumble Lube for years. While this was mostly .38/.357 molds, like 358477 and 358429, they were around .361-.362" and I never had a problem. Didn't push them too hard.

Any recommendations for a star sizer? I might need to buy one...

[Sonnypie]

Sizing? One at a time.
Well begun is half done. :p

I have my own spin on Ranch Dipping (http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Tips/Alox/).
It might be easier if I drag it over from here (http://www.handloadersbench.com/view_post.php?post_id=155733).
I didn't have much luck spraying my boolits with WD-40. It just isn't a lead lube, in my trials.
So I fiddled around and came up with something I think is different.
Batch dipping, batch sizing, batch cleaning, and finally batch loading. With my own concoction of loob.
Early trials have shown it to work with the limited loads I shot.
Best part for me was it sets very rapidly and stayed in the grooves during handling.

But I can load 4 racks with checked boolits (200 boolits), dip them, and begin punching them into a loaf pan very quickly.
Then run them through my Lee sizer die to size and set the boolits and gas checks.
They can end up in a pan, or in a rack.
Sure stepped up my process to get to loadable boolits. :D
And boolits with clean noses don't foul up my seating dies. :bigsmyl2:

[DLCTEX]

Don't discount tumble lubing until you've tried the 45/45/10 formula as invented by Recluse. Follow his procedure of cooking off some of the volatiles and light coats. You'll get dry boolits that don't gum up your dies and don't lead.

[geargnasher]

Don't discount tumble lubing until you've tried the 45/45/10 formula as invented by Recluse. Follow his procedure of cooking off some of the volatiles and light coats. You'll get dry boolits that don't gum up your dies and don't lead.

+1. The fastest and most satisfactory way to tumble lube boolits, no sticky mess, quick dry, very effective lube under the right circumstances.

Aside from that, Magma Engineering makes and automated sizer with boolit collator and feed system that will do a bazillion in no time, with no attention from you. However, it is priced accordingly.

Gear

[williamwaco]

Sizing? One at a time.
Well begun is half done.

I have my own spin on Ranch Dipping (http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Tips/Alox/).
It might be easier if I drag it over from here (http://www.handloadersbench.com/view_post.php?post_id=155733).



What are those tools with the springs?



.

[Lee W]

Still one at a time, but pretty fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VggR95jxHI

[Boolseye]

I've used tumble lubing in the past, but it tends to make a mess of the dies is my only real complaint.

+2 45-45-10 won't make a mess. Tumble lubing is by far the fastest lubing method, and is adequate for many applications.

[frankenfab]

After watching the video from Lee's link, I somehow wound up watching this video on ammunition manufacturing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhpCUtV8YDg&feature=related

I immediately noticed the simple, but effective exhaust ventilation for the casting pots.

[John Boy]

... The fastest sizer is the Lee Lube/Sizer
... The fastest pan lubing is -The Largest Lube Cake To-Date (http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=8612.0) ... Up to 200 bullets so far - scroll down!

[armed_partisan]

So, if you pan lube with the right "cake" formula, you can just pull out lubed bullets, and the lube doesn't pull out?

Will have to try the 45/45/10 formula until I feel bold enough to make a cake.

[fryboy]

not exactly ...pretty sure on that thread link when he states he places it on styrofoam that he cracks the seal and then merely pulls them out , what you're referring to is more of a dip lube method

[Sonnypie]

What are those tools with the springs?



.

Hi WIlliam,
Those are my 30 cal "Cake Cutters".
Once the bullet is cut from the cake, or excess from dipping, the plunger (toliet bolt or screw) ejects it and the spring retracts the bolt/screw.

http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny's/Boolit%20Gloob/loob_tools1.JPG

The one made from the casing was my first one (Position 1 from the left, w/ the finger ring).

The one made with tubing is my final or currently used one. (4th from left)
The tubing one works better for the longer (170g) boolits.

#2 is an adjustable tube mandrel I use when cleaning excess loob from the nose of the bullets. It covers the loobed area so I can use a solvented rag to wipe the nose clean of any excess loob.
Like this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~pie/Sonny's/Boolit%20Gloob/loob_tools3.JPG

#3 is a failure. :roll: I was seeing if a stiffer cutter would help, it didn't.

#5 is a guide I use to set boolits and checks together in the cupped cartridge box insert (Like the one shown). I do that before dipping in a rack now, and the gas check gets crimped when the boolit is run through the lee sizing die.
I just happened to dip 200 boolits today. My gas check aluminum was miraculously found at OSH hardware when I demanded to know why it had been almost a month since ordered. Obviously they have a personnel problem. But I got my roll of flashing. :evil:
Anyway, I made a bunch and wanted to try them out. So I did 4 racks, 200 boolits.
I also got them dipped, but haven't cut them out yet. After cut-out they will get sized, cleaned and some loaded for testing.

So that's what those are. Clear as mud, huh? :confused:
I can see I need to start making web pages again so each step can be shown. It would be easier to see how the steps go together.
Sorry if there was confusion. :veryconfu

[imashooter2]

The fastest way to size is not to. I shoot many thousands of Lee 452-228-1R and Lee 358-150-1R every year in USPSA and ICORE. All are loaded as cast and film lubed with either Rooster Jacket (for the .45s) or LLA/JPW (for the .38s). I apply the lube on these 500 or so at a time by tumbling in old Planter's Peanuts square plastic screw top jars and turn them out onto a trash can bag laid flat to dry. Total touch time, way less than 10 minutes.

[Sonnypie]

...that I am beginning to really get irritated about:

[/url][url=http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2825]http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_199184ed2fcd11c090.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2824)

Although the tumble loob is very thin on the nose of the boolit, it builds up in the seating die and your rounds get progressively deeper seated until you realize it and clean this carp droppings out of the die. :mad:

Another reason I am trying different methods. :razz:
(And why I am taking the time to clean them before loading.)

Let's discuss that nice little aspect to Fumble Loobing....:sad:

[imashooter2]

Lube build up doesn't happen for me. Not with LLA, LLA/JPW or Rooster Jacket. Loading is done on a Dillon SDB and I'll generally load an ammo can full (~1200) at a stretch before swapping over the press.

[Capn Jack]

May not be too much of a problem on pistol cartridges, but
lube can build up enough in your rifle dies to change O.A.L.
When it does, chamber pressures can skyrocket.
:holysheep
Been there...Done that

Jack...:coffeecom

[imashooter2]

May not be too much of a problem on pistol cartridges, but
lube can build up enough in your rifle dies to change O.A.L.
When it does, chamber pressures can skyrocket.
:holysheep
Been there...Done that

Jack...:coffeecom

I've used straight LLA on .30/30. Lube build up didn't happen. I followed the directions on the bottle and let the lube dry before I loaded. No build up.

I have had conventional lube scrape off the sides of some sloppily done commercial bullets and plug up the seater, but never film lube.

[Sonnypie]

I've used straight LLA on .30/30. Lube build up didn't happen. I followed the directions on the bottle and let the lube dry before I loaded. No build up.

I have had conventional lube scrape off the sides of some sloppily done commercial bullets and plug up the seater, but never film lube.

Wooowwww! Magic, Jack. [smilie=1:

Unless I wipe the noses off it always builds up after a hundred or several so rounds.
Photographic proof provided.
Maybe you need to look... in... your... die? :roll:
:o :wink:

[Recluse]

Wooowwww! Magic, Jack. [smilie=1:

Unless I wipe the noses off it always builds up after a hundred or several so rounds.
Photographic proof provided.
Maybe you need to look... in... your... die? :roll:
:o :wink:

I've had zero buildup in my seating dies.

Nothing "magic jack" about it at all.

You can show me all the photographic proof of buildup you want--I can show you all the photographic proof of no buildup.

If it doesn't work for you, then quit doing it.

:coffee:

[imashooter2]

Wooowwww! Magic, Jack. [smilie=1:

Unless I wipe the noses off it always builds up after a hundred or several so rounds.
Photographic proof provided.
Maybe you need to look... in... your... die? :roll:
:o :wink:


You called for a discussion and I related my experiences. In response, you post this trash talk and call me a liar. You seem to think that you have become quite the expert since August. Allow me to suggest that perhaps there is more for you to learn.

Now then, back to the discussion. What do you suppose you are doing wrong that you get the results that you do?

[Sonnypie]

You called for a discussion and I related my experiences. In response, you post this trash talk and call me a liar. You seem to think that you have become quite the expert since August. Allow me to suggest that perhaps there is more for you to learn.

Now then, back to the discussion. What do you suppose you are doing wrong that you get the results that you do?

Really?
Show me where I called you a liar. (I'm retired, I'll wait.....)
Might want to re-read your posts and see just whom is "talking trash."
And do note, the boolits I'm loading and showing the build up from in the die have been dried for months now. And for the record, they are even very lightly powdered.

Do you have a suggestion for drying/seasoning time? Or just your rant?
I've got the LLA down so very thin it is barely noticeable. Yet, the build up occurs in the seating die. I've also tried all the tricks posted here. (Where do you think I got the powder idea?) And these are from the JPW/LLA/ mineral spirits thread Recluse posted. Which helped a lot over straight LLA.
But the nature of having loob on parts of the boolit that never touch the bore yet have to touch the dies, and loading ramps, and magazines is objectionable.
Of course, I am using a round nosed cast boolit in a round nose seating die. So maybe the boolit fits the RCBS seater well enough to transfer the lube while seating and applying the taper crimp.
But tumble lube does transfer from one surface to another. Even after drying.
Based on experience with it.
Scratch some with your finger nail.

It's fast....
It's easy....
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
:takinWiz:

[imashooter2]

Really?

-snip-

:takinWiz:


Wooowwww! Magic, Jack. [smilie=1:

Unless I wipe the noses off it always builds up after a hundred or several so rounds.
Photographic proof provided.
Maybe you need to look... in... your... die? :roll:
:o :wink:


So you wish to claim that this post doesn't call me a liar? The first line isn't intended to ridicule the very concept that I had no lube build up? The "photographic proof provided" isn't intended to convey that only your position can be true? What is the last line if not an outright statement claiming I misrepresented the facts? You don't have to use the word liar to place that label on someone. It's disingenuous of you to pretend you didn't do exactly that.

At your request, I did review my posts. I find that every one was a dispassionate statement of fact or offering of opinion. That is until post #25 where, I confess, I was a little peeved at some new guy that has only been casting since August calling me a liar because his vast experience doesn't coincide with mine.

You obviously don't really want any suggestions. That solicitation was simply a segue for more proselytizing, but I'll still comply. I suggest:
Follow the directions Lee supplies. Apply the lube by tumbling.
Apply sufficient bell to your cases to ensure you aren't scraping lube off the sides of your bullets and fouling the die that way.
If you are providing enough flair, then apply less lube than you are. If the lube isn't drying and is transferring from the nose of your bullets to your dies, you are applying too much.
Stop putting powder on top of the lube. Properly applied lube doesn't need it and with improperly applied lube it is just additional bulk to build up in your dies.
Drying time varies depending on temperature and humidity. My technique is to apply the lube when I get home from work and spread them to dry. When I get home from work the next day they are generally dry and ready to load or apply the gas check. If not, I let them sit another day.
In my opinion, the key to it all is in the amount of lube applied.

It's possible that none of those suggestions will work for you. Casting is as much art as science. I use round nose bullets with round nose seaters and various film lubes with complete satisfaction and no lube buildup. My life experience tells me that what one man can do, another might duplicate. Play with the variables and refine your technique so that it doesn't happen to you.

Or continue to try to make the case that lube buildup has to happen because you can't make it stop. I don't care what beliefs you choose to cling to. But don't expect me to stand by while you impugn the reputation I've earned from the infancy of this board and carried over from Shooters.com and Aimoo before it.

[Recluse]

Really?
Show me where I called you a liar. (I'm retired, I'll wait.....)
Might want to re-read your posts and see just whom is "talking trash."

*Sigh*

Another new member goes on the Ignore List.

It's starting to get awfully crowded in there.

I remember a time when this forum wasn't like this and most of us didn't even KNOW there was an Ignore List, let alone the need to use it.

:coffee:

[DLCTEX]

I believe the buildup you are experiencing is from the added ingredients + powder. I have NO buildup using Recluse's method. Light coats, just barely able to see on the boolits. No powder. I made the mistake of wanting to fill the lube grooves when first tumble lubing with Lee Alox. Result was buildup in dies and guns.

[MT Chambers]

Well I hate to interrupt the little love-in but you're both off the mark anyways, there is no faster, more accurate way to lube and/or size thousands of bullets, than the Star sizer, end of story.

[imashooter2]

Well I hate to interrupt the little love-in but you're both off the mark anyways, there is no faster, more accurate way to lube and/or size thousands of bullets, than the Star sizer, end of story.


Maybe not if you include drying time, but tumble lube is certainly less touch time than the Star.

And of course you could spend a couple bucks on one of Magma's automated machines...