Looking for a 45 Colt load with 340gr Hammer

[HammerMTB]

I have a new mold- thanks, White Eagle! for my .45 RH. It's 340 grain. Can't seem to find any data for it. The RH twist is 1/16, so I think it will stabilize, hopefully down to 1000FPS or so, so it don't beat my hand too bad.
Anybody load for something like this?

[tek4260]

I'm gonna go ahead and put my flame suit on......

If your RH is the 4" model, you will have to stand on it to get 1K. If it were mine, I'd load to the base of the seated boolit with H110 and not look back. That is a heavy long cylinder with offset bolt notches and will stand a good bit more than a Blackhawk.

Take a 3/8 wooden dowel and mark it even with the crimp groove with both the boolit and rod standing on the bench. Take your Lee dipper and add H110 in the case until the mark on the rod is even with the case mouth and the charge is sitting level in the case. Weigh the charge in the case and this should be your max load. Don't back down from that more than 10%.

Loading books are pretty much useless with custom cast boolits anyway. I have a 300gr 44 mold that takes up less space in the case than a 240gr conventional SWC. You end up having to run it about 5 gr over book max for a 300gr to get it to really shine.

[saz]

I have not used it in the 45 colt, only the 454 casull in a levergun. And in that application my best results were with AA#9 and Lil Gun. I suggest you contact Dan Walker- I know he has worked with it in the Colt case- after all, it was his idea for the original group buy.

[bigboredad]

I believe white eagle like h110 and 21. A load that will get you used to the 340 is 9-10gr of unique or universal. I also like 16.5gr of 2400 and also 165.5gr of Ramshots enforcer. I had to email Ramshot to get any info on enforcer with Ramshot and that said 15.6-18.5gr I've used 15.5 to 17.00 with 2400 and for the run away freight train load for me is 21.5 with h110 with 21 the group was huge with another .5 gr. when I do my part the groups can cone down to almost a inch at 25yds. the 340 is a very accurate bullet out of the colts and you can go down 800fps and still get decent groups. If you are looking for a max load follow Teks advice he knows what he is doing and isn't just guessing

[GARCIA]

Here is a neat place to visit:

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45%20Colt%20%20P&Weight=340&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

Just might find what you need.

Tom

[44MAG#1]

Eureka as we type Hodgdons has data on the web for 335 gr and 360 gr bullets Ruger only loads that are safe in a Blackhawk so on and so forth

[subsonic]

I'd go for 21-23gr H110 or 296, but as at my own risk of course.

[tek4260]

Here is the example of why the book is useless in this case. The 300 doesn't seat as deep as the 240. Therefore I can run 25gr instead of say 19gr.

Of course the joker who see this and crams his 300gr jacketed over that 25gr load might be in trouble.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/DSCN0269.jpg

[white eagle]

I used 21.5 gr H110 out of my Bisley
very accurate.... lets you know your livin'
but as always take these loads with a grain.....
work out one for your gun, partner

[HammerMTB]

Well, I got around to trying the technique below today. Wanted to start by seeing how much we were talking about.
Turns out it was 28.9 grains of WW296- same as H110 in a WW case.
That's a good deal more than I am willing to start at....
Thinking about it some more, I may drop 10% or so from my 44 Mag loads with 300 grain and 296. Should be OK there to start....

tek, my RH is the 4" model.
My SRH in 44Mag is a 9.5" bbl, but it'll get 1350 from 300 grain boolits. I think 1000FPS is not "unattainable" in the 4" gun. Don't think I'll start at the top and work down, tho
:castmine:

I'm gonna go ahead and put my flame suit on......

If your RH is the 4" model, you will have to stand on it to get 1K. If it were mine, I'd load to the base of the seated boolit with H110 and not look back. That is a heavy long cylinder with offset bolt notches and will stand a good bit more than a Blackhawk.

Take a 3/8 wooden dowel and mark it even with the crimp groove with both the boolit and rod standing on the bench. Take your Lee dipper and add H110 in the case until the mark on the rod is even with the case mouth and the charge is sitting level in the case. Weigh the charge in the case and this should be your max load. Don't back down from that more than 10%.

Loading books are pretty much useless with custom cast boolits anyway. I have a 300gr 44 mold that takes up less space in the case than a 240gr conventional SWC. You end up having to run it about 5 gr over book max for a 300gr to get it to really shine.

[tek4260]

I just measured out that load of 28.9 in my WW 45 Colt case and came up with about 5/16" from the case mouth. So that boolit only seats 5/16" in the case when crimped in the crimp groove?

[Lefty SRH]

I loaded some 330gr WFN (1.610" OAL) Bear Tooth Bullets with 22.0gr H110 and a mag primer in my Ruger .45 colt SBH Hunter Bisley and WOW were they accurate. They averaged 1200fps form my gun.
For what its worth Linebaugh considers a max charge of 21.0gr H110 with a 350gr cast slug.

[HammerMTB]

I just measured out that load of 28.9 in my WW 45 Colt case and came up with about 5/16" from the case mouth. So that boolit only seats 5/16" in the case when crimped in the crimp groove?

I set my caliper to 5/16" and got what you see. To the crimp it's more like .380, but the .40S&W case in the pic was marked to the crimp with case and boolit sitting on the bench, then used as the gauge. I was conservative on the amount. I could easily have gotten another .5-1 grain in there, maybe more.
I've got a starting point now.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/HammerMTB/Boolits/DSCN2720.jpg

[Lefty SRH]

So whats your starting point?

[subsonic]

I wouldn't start with more than 23 gr. Look at .454 data...And stay well under it.

[tek4260]

Wow that thing seats shallow. Much shallower than I thought it would being a 340. I figured you would end up with a 24-25gr load as max. The pucker factor would be too high at 29gr :) Sorry I gave bad advice based on my experiences with more traditional boolits.

Food for thought

Per Hodgdon, with H-110 and 300gr bullets, the 44 goes 19 max and the 45 gets 22 max. Or 3gr more for the 45. My shallow seating 44 pictured above got 26gr in the Redhawk, add 3 gr and you have your measured 45 capacity.

Still 26 is not as scary as 29gr :)

[HammerMTB]

So whats your starting point?

I usually always use a measure to do this, so my load is slightly dictated by the volume of the measure.
That said, it will be in the 21-22 grain area. I think you hit it close enough for me. That's low enough to be safe, and high enough to have a good probability of enough velocity to get stability. If it works, I may not even try to push it more.
Thanks to all for the input. Getting others' tested loads and some feedback makes it much more comfortable to find a starting point.

[44man]

Nothing was said about the barrel length being used so it is hard to answer.
I use a 7-1/2" Vaquero, old model. I have the Lyman mold 452651 that is supposed to be 325 gr. Mine comes out 347 gr. I use 21.5 gr of 296 and a Fed 150 primer for 1160 fps. It is deadly accurate.
Don't push much more because groups will open. Find where it is accurate only because a few more fps means nothing at all.
The 335 gr LBT and this Lyman have both shot under 1" at 75 yards for me. Yeah, with the stupid Vaquero sights.

[HammerMTB]

Nothing was said about the barrel length being used so it is hard to answer.



tek, my RH is the 4" model.

The barrel length was listed, you just missed it.
Thanks for the confirmation, I have a starting point now. :idea:

[Snyd]

I have a 355gr WFN that takes up less case capacity than a Cast Performace 360gr. I'm at 21.5gr H110 which is .5 over max load for the cast performance, Hodgdon Ruger Only 45 Colt load data. The load is scary accurate and is 1200fps in my 7 1/2 inch SBH Hunter and 1150 in my 4" Redhawk. The 4" Redhawk will have no prob stabalizing that boolit. Reaming throats to .4525 if you haven't already makes a HUGE difference, Also cutting forcing to to 11degress. Have fun!

Mine on left, CP on right

http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/45_bullets01.jpg

[Whiterabbit]

I've not used that bullet, but Penn's at 340 grain. I was also pushing them much much harder than 1000 fps, but in my experience H110 didn't work well for me.

AA#9 however worked well and developed quickly. My only real recommendation is that #9 may work more easily with a 16" twist and a long 340.

If you have problems like I did, it will not take long to figure it out. a quarter of my H110 340 bullets passed through the target sideways, at any distance.

[suba]

I don't load for a 340, but heres a .452 400g that I shoot out of my 5 1/2 FA. I load it down to 3g TB and up to 23g 4227 with good accuracy on both ends. Don't know the velocities, but probably <600 TB / >1200 4227.

btw, that's 45 brass and shoot it in my Colt cylinder.

[HammerMTB]

AA#9 however worked well and developed quickly. My only real recommendation is that #9 may work more easily with a 16" twist and a long 340.



Well, I have the 16" twist, so that's a good start. The 4" bbl may be a bit of a hardship, but I doubt too much.
Do you remember your AA#9 loads? Velocities?

[Snyd]

Well, I have the 16" twist, so that's a good start. The 4" bbl may be a bit of a hardship, but I doubt too much.
Do you remember your AA#9 loads? Velocities?

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. As long as your boolits are .001 over bore diameter and the boolits slip through the throats.

My 4" Redhawk (converted to 454) will stabilize these 425ers. It's an RCBS .458, sized down. Now I just need to figure out how to keep em from jumping crimp.

http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/435_001.jpg

25yds first time out. 1st group is at top, I changed my POA for the second group.
http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/435_01.jpg


50yds
http://web.mac.com/perryschneider/pics/422RH_01.jpg

[Whiterabbit]

I wasn't loading my .452's into 45LC cases, so no I do not have loads or velocities. Sorry. I also don't know if barrel length is a factor either? My barrel is much longer than 4". For what it is worth.

Also FYI new info just today, with my 320's which stabilize OK with H110 and A#9, they have the same accuracy at 25 yards, but at 100 the H110 rounds are markedly more accurate. Maybe the #9's are going subsonic before 100? dunno. Also for what it is worth.

[wellfedirishman]

Hammer, I did some load development for a 45LC in the Buffalo Classic Carbine last year:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=99213

These were all cowboy loads with 7 grains of Trailboss. The 340 grain Lee bullet shot great (out of the BC Carbine). I tried it in my Ruger Blackhawk 5.5" also and it shot well there too.

25 yards, 340 grain bullet, 7 grains Trailboss, BC 45LC carbine:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm138/wellfedirishman/Buffalo%20Classic/45LC457340grLee7grTB25yardsBC45.jpg

[wildcatter]

I know this is an old thread, but for the last 2 years I've been using this load and cannot find anything better in the Blackhawk or stronger framed FA 83. I have looked everywhere and you hear a lot of praise for 2400 in the 44 mag but hardly ever in the 45 Colt. 18.0 grains 2400 with a custom 340 grain Mountain Molds WLFN. I had it made to just clear the cylinder when heavily crimped in the colt brass and chambered in the FA 83 or Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter. will do under 1 1/4" @ 50,,,,, good for about 1200 fps.

The same design just less boolit from the crimp ring down is a 250 custom I have built from Mountain molds also, and ironically it shoots same POI and just as accurate with 14.5 grains of Blue Dot,,, another powder you never hear about in the MIGHTY Colt Cartridge.....
145872

[Whiterabbit]

Good stuff. I also have a bluedot load for 250 grain boolits, about 15 grains of powder and seems to do OK.

Except that I can't find bluedot in any store lately....

[DougGuy]

I use the 340gr SSK TC design, seated to the crimp groove, over 22.0gr W296 with CCI 350 primer. You could use the same charge of H110 as they are the same exact powder made in the same plant, just labeled differently because Winchester buys one, and Hodgdon buys the other. Have fired a lot of these out of a short barreled Vaquero without incident. Recoil is stiff, but brass extracts without a hammer and the primers aren't all flattened out. As mentioned earlier, you really gotta shove hard to break the sound barrier out of a short gun, these run right at 1090 ~ 1100 fps.

Here are two that went completely through 36" of seasoned oak firewood and were recovered:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/f0ef1f31-bc74-4cd1-8db0-0bd95c1a6e1e_zps402bc1ec.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/f0ef1f31-bc74-4cd1-8db0-0bd95c1a6e1e_zps402bc1ec.jpg.html)

I have good luck using soft gas checks with these too. This is a sheet of dental wax, .060" thick, cookie-cuttered over the charged case mouth and pushed down by the boolit when it is seated. It greatly cuts down on leading, and you can see how perfectly square and sharp the base of the boolit is.

[Moonie]

I use 22gr h110/w296 behind the Lee 300gr .452 and planning on working up to the same with my new NOE 350gr HP. I get 1,350ish out of my 7 1/2" NMBH with the 300gr load.

[Whiterabbit]

what kind of accuracy? Also, 1350 is really zipping along. Would you be comfortable shooting that out of a large frame vaquero on a regular basis?

[44man]

21.5 of 296 is a magic number for accuracy in the .44 and .45 Colt with heavier boolits.
MY SBH with the 310 Lee and the 320 LBT works with it and the .45 likes the same amount for the LBT 335 gr and the Lyman 452651.145922 5 shots at 50 with the Lyman boolit. Shot from Creedmore. I have shot 1" groups with both boolits at 75 yards from Creedmore. Yeah, had to put Pach's on the gun!
I use a Fed 150 primer in both calibers.
The heavy boolits will NOT shoot slow. Toss Unique, will not work.

[Groo]

I use the 340gr SSK TC design, seated to the crimp groove, over 22.0gr W296 with CCI 350 primer. You could use the same charge of H110 as they are the same exact powder made in the same plant, just labeled differently because Winchester buys one, and Hodgdon buys the other. Have fired a lot of these out of a short barreled Vaquero without incident. Recoil is stiff, but brass extracts without a hammer and the primers aren't all flattened out. As mentioned earlier, you really gotta shove hard to break the sound barrier out of a short gun, these run right at 1090 ~ 1100 fps.

Here are two that went completely through 36" of seasoned oak firewood and were recovered:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/f0ef1f31-bc74-4cd1-8db0-0bd95c1a6e1e_zps402bc1ec.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/f0ef1f31-bc74-4cd1-8db0-0bd95c1a6e1e_zps402bc1ec.jpg.html)

I have good luck using soft gas checks with these too. This is a sheet of dental wax, .060" thick, cookie-cuttered over the charged case mouth and pushed down by the boolit when it is seated. It greatly cuts down on leading, and you can see how perfectly square and sharp the base of the boolit is.
Groo here
If you are shooting a Red Hawk, this will work.
Measure how deep the bullet will seat,fill with WW680/AA1680 ,weigh,starting is 90%-max is 100%,light with mag primer and heavy crimp.
Good load,that pushes rather than snaps, may be 100fps under 296/110 load, cases fall out.
Given to me by J.D. Jones...
JD said this was a "balanced" load, the speeds difference between a 4 5/5in and a 7 1/2in was only 50fps.

[NVScouter]

I'm gonna go ahead and put my flame suit on......

If your RH is the 4" model, you will have to stand on it to get 1K. If it were mine, I'd load to the base of the seated boolit with H110 and not look back. That is a heavy long cylinder with offset bolt notches and will stand a good bit more than a Blackhawk.

Take a 3/8 wooden dowel and mark it even with the crimp groove with both the boolit and rod standing on the bench. Take your Lee dipper and add H110 in the case until the mark on the rod is even with the case mouth and the charge is sitting level in the case. Weigh the charge in the case and this should be your max load. Don't back down from that more than 10%.

Loading books are pretty much useless with custom cast boolits anyway. I have a 300gr 44 mold that takes up less space in the case than a 240gr conventional SWC. You end up having to run it about 5 gr over book max for a 300gr to get it to really shine.

I've loaded the LEE 340g .458 boolit sized to .454 over Lil'Gun for years in 4" and 7 3/4" Rugers. the 4" is about 1075 and the 7 3/4 almost 1300fps. hogdons lists loads for 325 and 360 cast loads with H110 and Lil'Gun ruger only loads.

[DougGuy]

what kind of accuracy? Also, 1350 is really zipping along. Would you be comfortable shooting that out of a large frame vaquero on a regular basis?

I can tell you from experience this is NOT a load you want to shoot more than about 10 of in a session with standard or even custom Vaquero grips. Pachmayer grips may make it tolerable. Even expensive shooting gloves don't pad that middle finger knuckle. I take a roll of that stretchy bandage material that sticks to itself when I go to the range with my birdshead and these loads. Wrap the middle finger 2x and let 'er rip! Works a charm!

20 rounds without tape:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Birdshead%20Vaquero/1dc26311-da91-4d59-9981-3b4a9fd0a0eb_zps993803a4.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Birdshead%20Vaquero/1dc26311-da91-4d59-9981-3b4a9fd0a0eb_zps993803a4.jpg.html)

[44MAG#1]

4.2 inch Redhawk, 410 grain LBT LFN GC W296 1100 FPS average for 6 shots. 1.785" OAL.
Mine produced that.

[Moonie]

what kind of accuracy? Also, 1350 is really zipping along. Would you be comfortable shooting that out of a large frame vaquero on a regular basis?

Wow, sorry, that should have been 1,300fps not 1,350. And yes, that will beat you to death with the factory grips. I had to change to those ugly rubber things as it was beating my middle finger to death. 22gr of H110/W296 with the Lee 300gr chrono'd right at 1,300fps out of my 7 1/2" convertible.

[Whiterabbit]

Not interested in advice about hand abuse. I shoot 200 grain 45's above 2400 fps form my BFR, 500 grain boolits to almost 1400 fps, and 740 grain boolits to 900. I am interested in gun abuse as I am turning into a one-load, one-gun kind of guy. I just want an accurate magnum load for the vaquero and have a very keen understanding of how fast the gun will loosen up and/or require maintenance as a result of my loading choice.