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View Full Version : Good inexpensive single shot action for heavier 30.06 loads?



DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-19-2007, 10:22 PM
I've been thinking for a long time getting a strong single shot action setup with a scope to load strong 30.06 loads. I'm not too familiar with these type ations, but am interested in something that has a trigger guard lever to open the rifle (not a full Winchester 97 style, just a hook off the trigger guard) or something like a rolling block action or along those lines.

I'd like to keep the price as low as possible, the action and steels as strong as possible so I can use "full case" 30.06 loads.

Thanks,

Dave

Ben
02-19-2007, 10:34 PM
Did you mean Winchester " 94 " style ?

Ben
02-19-2007, 10:38 PM
This single shot is imported by Remington right now.

The IZH 18, about $250, available in 30/06 Springfield

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/IZH%2018/PICT0034.jpg

AkMike
02-19-2007, 10:42 PM
Get a Ruger #1 if you want bank vault security! Hey you said heavy loads...

Scrounger
02-19-2007, 11:07 PM
I've been thinking for a long time getting a strong single shot action setup with a scope to load strong 30.06 loads. I'm not too familiar with these type ations, but am interested in something that has a trigger guard lever to open the rifle (not a full Winchester 97 style, just a hook off the trigger guard) or something like a rolling block action or along those lines.

I'd like to keep the price as low as possible, the action and steels as strong as possible so I can use "full case" 30.06 loads.

Thanks,

DaveSomeone suggested the Ruger No. 1 and it certainly has merit and is the best looking one you could get. But also look at the Thompson Encore. It has the action you describe. You can get a new one for about $550 which is still less than the Ruger. Now the best part: For about $200 to $250 you can buy barrels in many, many calibers, from .22 Hornet to .500 S&W! You can change barrels in 2 minutes. You can buy the extra barrels whenever you want and they require no fitting to your action. The Encore is a Contender on steroids so it can shoot really heavy recoiling calibers. Check it out. http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/encore.php

Scrounger
02-19-2007, 11:13 PM
I've been thinking for a long time getting a strong single shot action setup with a scope to load strong 30.06 loads. I'm not too familiar with these type ations, but am interested in something that has a trigger guard lever to open the rifle (not a full Winchester 97 style, just a hook off the trigger guard) or something like a rolling block action or along those lines.

I'd like to keep the price as low as possible, the action and steels as strong as possible so I can use "full case" 30.06 loads.

Thanks,

Dave

If price is the deciding factor, go down to WalMart and buy a Handi-Rifle, ~$200.

AkMike
02-19-2007, 11:22 PM
But I have doubts that they will handle sustained heavy loads as he described.

357maximum
02-19-2007, 11:23 PM
TC Encore +1...no ffl needed to try another caliber, just lay your credit card by the computer and osmosis makes it appear on your doorstep....truly the 9th wonder of the world....

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-19-2007, 11:25 PM
Did you mean Winchester " 94 " style ?

Ben,

I don't know enough about lever action rifles to give you a decent answer. But I know I'm not looking for a lever action. I'm looking for a strong, simple action. Since I'm wanting to get maximum output ouf of the 30.06, I figure a strong single action is the way to go. I suspect a single action based on a shotgun break open will not do the job safely. I suspect I'll need something with a stronger design.

Regards,

Dave

357maximum
02-19-2007, 11:35 PM
An H&R is not intended to be beat on day in and day out with anything approaching magnum loads, I don't care what H&R?NEF/Marlin says...I have seen an H&R in 280 get loosey goosey after as few as 100 factory hunting loads....they are great in 30/30 and down, but I would not buy another based on the 06 case for constant use....just my $219.00 worth....

Ben
02-19-2007, 11:40 PM
When you say that you want to keep the price as low as possible , that in my mind , rules out the Ruger # 1 which really tears up $1,000.00 right now.

I've got serious doubts that the single shot that I posted the pic of would be sold in large numbers by Remington if they didn't feel it was safe.

I can't think of any " cheap " single shot that will stand " red line " loads on a steady basis .

If a Handi rifle or the Rem.Single shot isn't to your liking, you're next step will require a substantially greater cash outlay if you choose to stay with a single shot action design.

Best,

Ben

Four Fingers of Death
02-20-2007, 01:17 AM
Second hand bolt rifle, new quality barrel. Will work!

Single shot, lotsa bucks, might work.

Blank the mag off if you like, but unless you are gonna spring for a Ruger or similar, I think you will be outa luck.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-22-2007, 09:42 AM
You guys have broken my heart. I was hoping one of those eyetalian gun makers or somebody else had decided to make a rolling block action with modern steel or some such and I just didn't know about it. Apparently I'm outta luck. I'll just have to stick with a modern bolt action and be done with it.

Dang,

Dave

NickSS
02-22-2007, 11:37 AM
I do question the overloading of any cartridge. It seams to me that any rifle made for a specific cartridge today will handle safe loads in it for a considerable periode of time. If you want more velocity buy a larger cartridge like say a 300 mag of some sort. There are more than one on the market. Now I have personally killed 14 deer, 42 Carabou, 4 elk and one Black Bear with a 30-06 using a 150 or 180 gr bullet at around 2700 to 2800 fps and never felt the need for more power. Besides which I found that higher pressure loads just did not shoot as accurately as more moderate ones.

Char-Gar
02-22-2007, 12:00 PM
ALL rifles are single shot!!! The magazine, if any, is a just convenient place to carry a few extra rounds.

sundog
02-22-2007, 02:03 PM
Dave, find a nice used bolt gun. There should be plenty at a gun show (or maybe a garage or estate sale). No need to pay new gun prices. The bucks you save can go for other toys.

I'm with Nick. If you need to push the top end, get something bigger, otherwise the sanely loaded stuff works real well.

Jon K
02-22-2007, 06:29 PM
Dave,

I'll side with 357Maximum on this one-T/C Encore. Don't underestimate them.
The Handi-Rifle ?
But if you are talking about a sturdy single shot Ruger #1 is fine, but I would rather have a 1885 High Wall, and yes, they are out there in 30-06. About the same money.

Check this one out
http://www.gunsamerica.com/classifieds/none/_976676973.aspx

Jon

lovedogs
02-22-2007, 07:26 PM
Dave, it sounds as if you've been bitten by two bugs at the same time. You want a SS and you want enhanced .30 cal. performance. I used to be a die-hard .30-06 man myself and can tell you that a properly loaded '06 can do about anything within reason. But trying to make a magnum out of one isn't a good idea, nor is it necessary. If you want magnum performance I'd have to advise as others have... get a magnum. If you're going to be a bear, why not be a grizzly? Go for broke and get yourself a .300 Win. in a Ruger #1. Heck, you only get to go around one time... enjoy it!

Scrounger
02-22-2007, 07:32 PM
Dave, it sounds as if you've been bitten by two bugs at the same time. You want a SS and you want enhanced .30 cal. performance. I used to be a die-hard .30-06 man myself and can tell you that a properly loaded '06 can do about anything within reason. But trying to make a magnum out of one isn't a good idea, nor is it necessary. If you want magnum performance I'd have to advise as others have... get a magnum. If you're going to be a bear, why not be a grizzly? Go for broke and get yourself a .300 Win. in a Ruger #1. Heck, you only get to go around one time... enjoy it!

Doesn't Pat Marlin have a No. 1 in .300 Mag that he was thinking about rebarrelling or reboring to .375? Maybe he would be interested in selling you his so he can buy the gun of his dreams. Make both of you happy.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-22-2007, 09:40 PM
Gentlemen,

I'm not wanting to load the 30.06 to magnum load levels. I'm wanting to load the 30.06 to close to maximum 30.06 levels and use heavy bullets. I don't know exactly how to express this, but I'll try.

Back since the use of 30.06 loads in WWII, the 30.06 has been "underloaded" a good bit. I'm suspect it can be uploaded to a higher performance level using modern powder and a modern steel gun and the results could be quite interesting. The objective is to fill the case with a modern powder and push it so that I'm getting proportionate performance to when you load up a .308, if that makes sense.

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself clearly, because it doesn't translate in written word all that well. I'm not interested in a magnum. What I'm interested in is exploring the performance envelope of the 30.06 and see what I find out when using modern powders and a modern gun. I'm interested in a single shot because of the strength, simplicity and the potential for a tiny bit more accuracy.

I've hope I've communicated what exactly I'm interested in. This is not for hunting, not for target shooting, but rather, is for a learning experience. I'm not looking for a "common sense" approach or a better "solution" gun wise for hunting, etc. I'm looking to work on maximizing all around performance of the 30.06. I suspect, but don't have the gun to try it in, that there is higher crossing point between velocity and accuracy that can be reached with the 30.06 than the loads listed in current manuals, simply because these loads are listed for older firearms as well as modern steels. I'd like to explore that area and see what I learn.

If you already know the answer to this question, please don't tell me. I'd rather find it out myself. And yes, I know a good bit about experimenting and how to do such things safely, as I worked in research and development fo years and I've designed a text fixture or two. I also plan to run the math as well.

Finally, I'd like to say this is NOT my normal approach to reloading, which is to use very conservative reloads at moderate velocities.

Nrut
02-22-2007, 11:51 PM
Stevens 200 bolt action should meet your needs at a low price...:)

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-22-2007, 11:53 PM
Someone is still making Stevens guns today?

Four Fingers of Death
02-23-2007, 02:01 AM
Yep, Looks like a Savage, comes in 270 and 3006 (and a few other popular cals (I think) and I saw it advertised in a yankee gun mag for $US310. Cheaper than a new barrel.

Four Fingers of Death
02-23-2007, 02:13 AM
What I'm interested in is exploring the performance envelope of the 30.06 and see what I find out when using modern powders and a modern gun. I'm interested in a single shot because of the strength, simplicity and the potential for a tiny bit more accuracy.


With this criteria in mind, I'd be happier with a bolt gun, preferably second hand with a premium barrel fitted. That gets as many variables out of the way and lets you concentrate on exploring the 3006, without having to make allowances for the gun nor have to suffer the Murphy's law that seems to manifest itself in single shots at times. Bolts are boring, bolts are easily bedded, bolts are yarda, yarda, yarda, but they are predictable when experimenting.

Take notice of our opinions (which are like bums, everyone has one) if you like, but don't hesitate to stick to your project the way you want, because in the end, you are the only one you have to satisfy. keep us posted when it is underway.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-23-2007, 11:02 AM
I googled the Stevens 200 and it appears it's a Savage 110 without the accutrigger, with basic blued steel, pillar bedded and with a plain jane grey composite stock. I've found it whole sale for $239.00 and since my I have a good friend with an FFL, I can get it for that price. I didn't think I could get a bolt action for that price. I'm very suprised. Thank you for suggesting it Nrut.

After learning that, I came back online thinking the exact same thing you just suggested 4fingermick. I can add a premium barrel (which I can also get at wholesale) and have a rifle capable of handling the pressures I'm thinking of.and when I'm done, I could put back on the lightweight hunting barrel and have a nice hunting rifle.

As far as not having the accutrigger, I've done enough trigger jobs I'm sure I can smooth that one up nicely and it appears to have a weight adjustment I'm betting can be set to a level I'd be happy with.

It's not a single shot, but it does appeal. Of course, so does that Russkie Ben posted. I may just have to buy both. That way, I'll have something for everything and won't have to add another caliber to reload for, as I already reload for 30.06. (grin)

4fingermick,

I'll certainly post afterwards, but it'll be a while, as I've just blown a wad on reloading equipment, because this year, the rising costs of materials is going to drive the costs of reloading equipment up quite a bit and I wanted to be "done" with most of my purchases before the new prices hit.

Thanks all,

Dave

Scrounger
02-23-2007, 12:45 PM
I googled the Stevens 200 and it appears it's a Savage 110 without the accutrigger, with basic blued steel, pillar bedded and with a plain jane grey composite stock. I've found it whole sale for $239.00 and since my I have a good friend with an FFL, I can get it for that price. I didn't think I could get a bolt action for that price. I'm very suprised. Thank you for suggesting it Nrut.

After learning that, I came back online thinking the exact same thing you just suggested 4fingermick. I can add a premium barrel (which I can also get at wholesale) and have a rifle capable of handling the pressures I'm thinking of.and when I'm done, I could put back on the lightweight hunting barrel and have a nice hunting rifle.

As far as not having the accutrigger, I've done enough trigger jobs I'm sure I can smooth that one up nicely and it appears to have a weight adjustment I'm betting can be set to a level I'd be happy with.

It's not a single shot, but it does appeal. Of course, so does that Russkie Ben posted. I may just have to buy both. That way, I'll have something for everything and won't have to add another caliber to reload for, as I already reload for 30.06. (grin)

4fingermick,

I'll certainly post afterwards, but it'll be a while, as I've just blown a wad on reloading equipment, because this year, the rising costs of materials is going to drive the costs of reloading equipment up quite a bit and I wanted to be "done" with most of my purchases before the new prices hit.

Thanks all,

Dave

You almost certainly have a WalMart near you. If it is one which still sells guns, check their price, it'll be lower than anyone else will sell it. If they don't have it in stock they will order it for you. They get Savage's from a distributor names Lipsey's. They also get guns from Sports South if you want to check stock online.

Bullshop
02-23-2007, 12:57 PM
We have sold a # of the Stevens 200 through our shop. Customer reports are all the same, very accurate. Got three sons here owning them and a fourth saving for one. I just cant believe the out of the box accuracy with nothing through the barrel but boolits. What an incredible value!
BIC/BS

Four Fingers of Death
02-23-2007, 04:42 PM
"I'll certainly post afterwards, but it'll be a while, as I've just blown a wad "
Dave

Blowing a 'wad' is what we all seem pretty good at here :D

God luck with it.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-24-2007, 03:50 PM
Bullshop,

Thank you for that information. I think I'll be jumping on one of those.

Regards,

Dave

wiljen
02-24-2007, 06:58 PM
Just wanted to say I understand what you are trying to do. I have had the same thoughts as I have a Weatherby vanguard in 30-06 and have tried to find the ceiling of the envelope. I kinda figure the 280, 270, and 25-06 all operate at higher max pressures than the 30-06 using the same case and the same rifle. I think the 30-06 can safely be raised to the same pressure levels as any of its litter mates without getting magnum-itis. Look at the Vihta powders 540/550 as interesting possibilities.

Wiljen

Scrounger
02-24-2007, 07:22 PM
I think a lot of us agree with that thought. Perhaps SAAMI set the .30-06 pressure lower in deference to the early 1903s or maybe even because of the Garand. But as you well know, the relevant dimension, area of cartridge base or rim, is the same for the .270 and 25-06 as the .30-06 and .280, so there is no valid reason it cannot withstand the same chamber pressure. The only negative I can suggest is that most of us have no means of measuring chamber pressure, so exceeding documented loads involves some risk. But since every gun/barrel/bullet/lot of powder/primer is different, we're always at least partially in the dark.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-25-2007, 05:06 PM
Wiljen and Scrounger,

You guys expressed it much better than I did. That's exactly what I want to do. My plan is to buy an affordable, quality, modern steel rifle with a good reputation (Such as the Savage/Stevens line.) and work up loads and see where it takes me. I expect to ask a few questions, identify a good powder to "get there" with and as the lots begin to get fairly warm, to use a test fixture with the capabilitthis is much like I didy of firing the rifle without anyone being near. This test setup is along the same line of thought (Though different application.) as when I was working in research and development designing power supplies back in the mid nineties.

Regards,

Dave

Dave

lovedogs
02-26-2007, 01:52 PM
Another thing you may want to consider... if you really want to explore the capabilities and push the envelope you may want to rethink and go with a bolt action. You really can't do this as well with most single-shots. Even the Ruger #1 doesn't lock up as solid as a good bolt gun and most singles don't shoot as well as a properly set up bolt. That's why most match shooters use bolt guns. I know this is your pet idea but to me it doesn't make sense. You can't explore the things you want to using the equipment you're talking about doing it with. To do the exploration right you'll need a good, well-set-up bolt rifle with a 28 inch barrel... basically, a 1,000 yd. bolt gun. I hope you have deep pockets.

lovedogs
02-26-2007, 02:15 PM
Just a quick amendment to the previous post.... I have a friend who, about a year ago, had this same idea. He loved his old .30-06 rifles and wanted to explore their potential. I advised that he was in for an expensive undertaking. Well, he thought he could cobble up something that'd work.

First, he unscrewed an old bbl. off a Rem. 700 and got an unbranded bbl. from Numrich on it. He glassed it and did all his other "cobbles" to it. After wasting quite a bit of time and a few hundred dollars he deemed that project a flop.

Next, he took apart a real nice, accurate '03-A3 Sporter. It was a good old hunting rifle that shot 1" groups regular as clock work. A buddy who had a barrel of old take-off .30-06 bbls. gave him seven bbls. to work with. He screwed them on one after the other until one headspaced close and the bolt fit. Long story made short, it shot into 1 1/2 inches. Another flop.

Well, then he figured maybe the .30-06 wasn't capable to shoot that well. Are you kidding me? The '06 used to hold all the records! Anyway, he traded something for a "Guaranteed" accurate Weatherby in .300 Winchester. I kept telling him he wasn't going to find the full accuracy potential of either the '06 or the big Win. with any sporter or military rifle. Sure, he could keep cramming in more and more powder until he got max velocities, but the accuracy isn't gonna be there. If it was that easy all those match shooters wouldn't be spending all those big bucks building up those long-range rifles. To explore the velocity and accuracy potential in the .30-06 you must have a bolt action with match-grade components. Or, easier yet, just read some of the writings by those who have already done that. It's cheaper and there's no shortage of info on the '06.

By the way, the friend traded the Weatherby off because "it wasn't accurate enough". Duh! He traded for one of those new Taurus Lightning rifles in .45 Colt and is now trying to make a magnum out of that. Heaven help us!

Phil
02-26-2007, 10:41 PM
Years ago I built up a 1968 type Winchester M70 for a long range rifle when "match rifle" was specified. I used a 28" air gauged Douglas #7 barrel, glass pillar bedded, blah, blah, blah. I also trued the receiver and bolt. I fit the bolt nose to clear the barrel face by .002" I want them this tight in case anything goes wrong. I built the rifle to shoot 190 grain Sierra Match King bullets and throated the barrel to allow the bullet base to be in the neck, giving me just that bit more powder capacity.

It worked fine, the rifle would shoot in the .6 MOA range just fine. I don't know if I have any of the old load data for that rifle but it seems to me that I could get within 200 FPS of what I was getting with my 30-338. Not bad for a cartridge developed in 1906. As I recall barrel life was far superior to the magnum also.

In doing your project, I would highly advise having a barrel fit by someone who knows what they are doing, and having it breeched TIGHTLY. I have seen lots of actions taken apart that would have survived had they been breeched tightly.

Cheers,

Phil

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
02-27-2007, 07:55 AM
Phil,

You pretty much exactly described what I planned oin doing. I was looking at either the Krieger or Douglas barrels and I can get the Douglas for a good bit less money. You post makes that decision a no brainer.

Regards,

Dave

Newtire
03-15-2007, 09:03 AM
Hey Dave,
Here's one..Not .30-06 but would be fun1 Sorry, couldn't resist.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
03-15-2007, 12:07 PM
Newtire,

That's okay, my brother was a swabbie too. He had problems with impulse control as well.

Grin,

Dave

bruce drake
03-15-2007, 01:42 PM
Here's another photo of the USS Piedmont.

Grand WWII Veteran scrapped by the Turks after they bought her from us in 87.

A former Marine who recognizes pride of service.

Bruce