Making 50-95 WCF Brass?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
My son ordered a 50-95 1876 reproduction. I will get to see it next June. But for right now from what I see it may be practicle to make 50-95 brass from .348 Win. Brass . Any one tried this or have you used any other brass to make 50-95?
Mike in Peru

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Does Starline offer it?

[missionary5155]

Not that I saw. 50-100 is on the list but more pricey than .348 .
Mike in Peru

[missionary5155]

Good morning
So far this 50-95 search has lead me through 3 case manufactures ($ OUCH) and several fellers posts here & there that ventured into making thier own. Looks like .348 Win brass works as does 50-90. 50 Alaskan was also transformed..
Looking at brass charts I see 43 Spanish is also a contender.
Mike in Peru

[KirkD]

Chaparral makes/made brass for the 50/95 (see http://www.marstar.ca/ammo-etc/new-brass.shtm ) Don't know if they still do though. See http://www.chaparralarms.com/prodotti/parts_accessories.htm

[missionary5155]

Good morning KirkD
All the pre-formed brass fall into that zone of "Ouch". Been forming obsolite brass for many years so I am headed that way. Have dies so I cannot bare the thought of $3 (or more) per piece of brass.
Mike in Peru

[Mk42gunner]

Mike,

As long as the .348 case is long enough, that is what I would use; You can stil find bags of new WW brass (I think it is seasonal availability).

Check the rim thickness, the .43 Spanish that I bought from BACO several years ago was formed from .348 and the rim was upset to make it about .030" thicker, going from memory.

Robert

[missionary5155]

Good morning Mk42
Looks like .348 brass is 2.225 in length & the 50.95 needs about 1.930 so that works out well. Available & does not need a loan to buy also. Loooks like the better way to go with this little project.
Mike in Peru

[Chakta]

Buffalo Bore Co. had some 50-95 brass the last time I inquired about that caliber myself. It seems the price was good also, save a lot of time fooling around with another brass caliber.

[405]

After going down the penny wise pound foolish road a few times myself in trying to reform various brass from it's intended purpose I decided the best is to just buy it already made to the correct specs.

Look at the three critical specs on any candidate first. Those are the rim diameter, rim thickness and base diameter. Secondary considerations would include total length and wall thickness at the neck. If any of those (especially the big three) are too far out of kilter then the final product will never be right. Comparing 348 to 50-95, I see at least two of the three out of sync- the rim diameter and the base diameter. Can it be done- sure. Is it worth it- not to me.

[missionary5155]

Hello up north there.
Been looking at the Buffalo Bore site and the brass there is $1.57 each if bought in groups of 50.. That is half the price of everyone else and makes it much more attractive.
Mike in Peru

[Bridger]

Sorry to revive such an old thread. Got some sample brass from Starline in both 50-90 and 50 Alaskan. So far I have found the 50 Alaskan easier to work with as the rim diameter does not have to be turned down. In either case I simply cut and trimmed the brass to length and ran it through the resizing die. 50-90 did not get past the loading gate until I reduced the rim diameter. 50 Alaskan gave me no trouble loading and cycling. In both cases though the lever took more force to fully close. Seems like the rim is a bit thicker than standard 50-95 brass. I noticed that the primer pocket in the 50 Alaskan is a bit deep. I am going to try and reduce the rim thickness to the point where the lever will close normally simply by sanding off brass directly from the bottom of the case head. If I can still seat a primer deep enough I think this will be a workable solution. On the positive side, the brass from Starline seems of very high quality. Will keep you posted on results.

[bob208]

Winchester made .348 by necking down .50-90 brass. so just go in the other direction.

[indian joe]

Winchester made .348 by necking down .50-90 brass. so just go in the other direction.

Grafs, Midway and Brownells all listing 50 Alaskan available @ $1.15 - $1.20 per -- I cant find 348 in stock anyplace - the process would be easier with the 50 Ak - might be time for an order I think - all this will only get harder for us Aussies.

[rondog]

Man, I WANT an Uberti 1876 Centennial in .50-95! But I find it hard to understand why such a fine rifle is offered in such an obscure caliber.

[square butte]

It's a shame that Jamison went belly up. They were doing brass for all the 1876 chamberings. I was able to lay in a fair supply of brass just as they were shutting off. Hope to never run out

[veeman]

Have they shut down? I was under the impression they were just doing military contracts for now. No?

[square butte]

I had not heard that - But i hope you are right. Do you have a source for the military contract thing. Most of the reloading supply houses seem to indicate that Jamison will not be back ( as in no back orders ) Someone else could always bring it back.

[Bridger]

If 50-90 was made by necking up 348 than for sure I would not want to go with 348 brass either as I would still need to reduce the rim diameter which is a pain. The 50 Alaskan's rim diameter is actually slightly smaller than 50-95 but seems to cycle just fine. As far as Jamison goes I have heard that they have a sizable stock of 50-95 brass but are currently tied up in some sort of litigation. Depending on the outcome they may be able to release that brass sometime this summer so stay tuned. Please don't quote me on this but I think the source was pretty reliable and I got this info only a few weeks back.

[Bridger]

Man, I WANT an Uberti 1876 Centennial in .50-95! But I find it hard to understand why such a fine rifle is offered in such an obscure caliber.

I guess because of the inherent weakness of the toggle link design. You could always go with their 1873 model. No trouble at all finding brass and loaded ammunition for that one. I noticed that they offer this model in 44 mag. Not sure that I would want to go that route with a toggle link design though. Seems to me that either the 44 WCF or 45 Colt is more in keeping with the spirit of this rifle.

If you want a rifle cartridge take a look at their 1886:

https://www.uberti-usa.com/1886-sporting-rifle

This one is a 45-70 so no issues with ammo. A bit on the expensive side though. I have seen some Winchester 1886 rifles available (the new ones) for less money so that is the way I would go if I was getting an 1886 I think.

[Bridger]

221428

Just wanted to share. Pic Title is wrong of course. This is an Uberti 1876!

[veeman]

I had not heard that - But i hope you are right. Do you have a source for the military contract thing. Most of the reloading supply houses seem to indicate that Jamison will not be back ( as in no back orders ) Someone else could always bring it back.

I am not 100% sure. We talked about it over at the CAS 1876 Forum, so it's Internet fact for what it's worth. http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,60965.0.html

[Bridger]

Sorry to revive such an old thread. Got some sample brass from Starline in both 50-90 and 50 Alaskan. So far I have found the 50 Alaskan easier to work with as the rim diameter does not have to be turned down. In either case I simply cut and trimmed the brass to length and ran it through the resizing die. 50-90 did not get past the loading gate until I reduced the rim diameter. 50 Alaskan gave me no trouble loading and cycling. In both cases though the lever took more force to fully close. Seems like the rim is a bit thicker than standard 50-95 brass. I noticed that the primer pocket in the 50 Alaskan is a bit deep. I am going to try and reduce the rim thickness to the point where the lever will close normally simply by sanding off brass directly from the bottom of the case head. If I can still seat a primer deep enough I think this will be a workable solution. On the positive side, the brass from Starline seems of very high quality. Will keep you posted on results.
Ok...Took a file to the base of the rim. Enough so that the head stamp is no longer readable. Primer can still be seated properly and it now cycles normally with no extra pressure at the lever required to fully chamber the cartridge. So looks like I have a workable solution for 50-95 brass.

I need to thank Starline Brass for helping me with this solution with advice and some free samples of various brass to experiment with. I will soon be buying some 50 Alaskan from them in large quantity.

[indian joe]

Ok...Took a file to the base of the rim. Enough so that the head stamp is no longer readable. Primer can still be seated properly and it now cycles normally with no extra pressure at the lever required to fully chamber the cartridge. So looks like I have a workable solution for 50-95 brass.

I need to thank Starline Brass for helping me with this solution with advice and some free samples of various brass to experiment with. I will soon be buying some 50 Alaskan from them in large quantity.

Bridger - would you mind posting measurement (diameter) of both cases at the base ? I used 348 brass for my first lot and the base measurement is way under where its sposed to be - would like to get at least some cases that are neater fit to my chamber and maybe the 50/90 would work. My 348 cases are only .543 base diameter - should be .554 - chamber is .558.
cheers
Joe

[Bridger]

Bridger - would you mind posting measurement (diameter) of both cases at the base ? I used 348 brass for my first lot and the base measurement is way under where its sposed to be - would like to get at least some cases that are neater fit to my chamber and maybe the 50/90 would work. My 348 cases are only .543 base diameter - should be .554 - chamber is .558.
cheers
Joe
Unfortunately I have already resized all of my 50 Alaskan cases but I do still have some new 50-90 from Starline and some new 50-95 so here goes:

New Jaminson 50-95:

Base diameter = .553
Rim Diameter = .623
Rim thickness = .057

Starline 50-90 (new):

Base diameter = .559 (before AND after resizing)
Rim Diameter = .651 (could not get this through the loading gate until I turned it down)
Rim thickness = .063

Starline 50 Alaskan (already resized with RCBS die)

Base diameter = .544
Rim Diameter = .600
Rim thickness = .067

So pick your poison. The 50-90 more closely matches the 50-95 in case diameter at the base and this does show in the finished case as the 50-90 comes out looking more bottle necked than the 50 Alaskan. The Alaskan does not however require reducing the diameter of the rim. As the depth of the primer pocket looks the same in the 50-90 I assume that I could also file down the base of the rim so that it will chamber easily in the rifle (like I have already done with the Alaskan).

If I figure out a consistent and easy way to turn down the rim diameter of the 50-90 I would probably be inclined to do that way but for now I will go with the Alaskan and just assume that fire forming will blow out the case diameter to proper spec. Probably will not get to the range for some tie but, when I do, I will report back.

Hope this helps!

[indian joe]

Unfortunately I have already resized all of my 50 Alaskan cases but I do still have some new 50-90 from Starline and some new 50-95 so here goes:

New Jaminson 50-95:

Base diameter = .553
Rim Diameter = .623
Rim thickness = .057

Starline 50-90 (new):

Base diameter = .559 (before AND after resizing)
Rim Diameter = .651 (could not get this through the loading gate until I turned it down)
Rim thickness = .063

Starline 50 Alaskan (already resized with RCBS die)

Base diameter = .544
Rim Diameter = .600
Rim thickness = .067

So pick your poison. The 50-90 more closely matches the 50-95 in case diameter at the base and this does show in the finished case as the 50-90 comes out looking more bottle necked than the 50 Alaskan. The Alaskan does not however require reducing the diameter of the rim. As the depth of the primer pocket looks the same in the 50-90 I assume that I could also file down the base of the rim so that it will chamber easily in the rifle (like I have already done with the Alaskan).

If I figure out a consistent and easy way to turn down the rim diameter of the 50-90 I would probably be inclined to do that way but for now I will go with the Alaskan and just assume that fire forming will blow out the case diameter to proper spec. Probably will not get to the range for some tie but, when I do, I will report back.

Hope this helps!

Thank you Sir - very much appreciated -
Confirms my experience with the 348 - my winchester 348 cases measure identical to your Starline Alaskan at the base - The Jamison 50-95 is correct size to the case drawings I can find - your measure of the 50-90 sharps case would be just a beautiful fit in my Uberti chamber! the body of my fire formed cases are .559 before they slim back at the solid head to that .544 that is common base diameter for the 348 and alaskan.
My rifle handles the thicker rim of the 348 cases without fuss and extraction is good - I have a good small lathe and straight shank collet chuck setup that would make turning rims diameter easy enough .............50-90 sharps for me next time.
You have been most helpful and I appreciate it
Thank you
Joe

[Bridger]

221554

Just to illustrate my results so far. From Left to right: Jaminson Factory Loaded, One of my reloads using Jaminson brass, a reload using modified 50-90 brass, and on the far right is a reload using modified 50 Alaskan.

You can see that both loads from the modified brass appear less bottle necked than from 50-95 brass with the 50 Alaskan appearing almost straight walled. My hope is that these will fire form to spec with the first use. All cycle and eject cleanly through the rifle.

Will keep you posted.

[square butte]

Bridger - What is the optimum C.O.A.L. for your rifle? I have one of the newer Uberti Presidio carbines and am just getting started loading for it. Your 2nd from the left looks like an LBT wide flat for the 500 Linebaugh. I have some of these sized to .512. What diameter are you sizing to?

[Bridger]

Bridger - What is the optimum C.O.A.L. for your rifle? I have one of the newer Uberti Presidio carbines and am just getting started loading for it. Your 2nd from the left looks like an LBT wide flat for the 500 Linebaugh. I have some of these sized to .512. What diameter are you sizing to?

That is an LBT sized to .512. I may decide not to use that one as it is around 440 grains which may be a bit on the heavy side for this rifle. I will start with the 350s and see how it goes from there. Still deciding on a powder. Either Trail Boss, Blackhorn 209, or just plain old black powder!

Right now I am using bullets sized from .510 to .512.

As far as C.O.L. I have as short as 2.260 to as long as 2.295. All cycle fine but just be careful as these rifles are sensitive to C.O.L. when it comes to cycling. Too long and it will extend past the cartridge elevator and jam. Too short and it may allow a second cartridge to start to enter the elevator and jam (I think it would have to be way to short for this to happen). I would definitely start low (in the 2.260 range) just to be safe. The Jaminson factory ammo is 2.261. Just make sure to try loading one cartridge first and, if that works, then load up two and make sure both cycle cleanly. Of course all safety procedures apply here. I usually create some dummy loads for this sort of testing (no powder or primer). They come in handy anyway when setting up or changing your dies.

Good luck and keep me posted on how she shoots!

[square butte]

Bridger - Thanks so much for your reply. My LBT wide flats are 350 gr gas checked from Montana Bullet works. I was happy to find them at that weight. They have two LBT profiles in that weight range - one that has a little smaller meplat. Both are listed under the .500 Linebaugh bullets, and can be had in .510, .511, or .512 . Both of these LBT bullets have a touch different crimp to nose measurements - but i believe they are both gonna work in the 50-95. I sprung for some of the Barnes original 350 grain .510 diameter bullets. I hope that diameter doesn't turn out to be too small.

[Bridger]

Bridger - Thanks so much for your reply. My LBT wide flats are 350 gr gas checked from Montana Bullet works. I was happy to find them at that weight. They have two LBT profiles in that weight range - one that has a little smaller meplat. Both are listed under the .500 Linebaugh bullets, and can be had in .510, .511, or .512 . Both of these LBT bullets have a touch different crimp to nose measurements - but i believe they are both gonna work in the 50-95. I sprung for some of the Barnes original 350 grain .510 diameter bullets. I hope that diameter doesn't turn out to be too small.

This is great info. Thanks. I have been looking for an LBT bullet with a large meplat in 350 grains. I will order some of these soon. Like you, I am not sure which diameter is going to work best. I wonder if anyone has done some experimenting with this and come to a conclusion. I am thinking of starting with .510 also (see my next post).

What powder are you looking to use?

Thanks again!

[Bridger]

There is an article by Brian Pearce in the July 2016 issue of Rifle magazine on the Uberti 1876. In this article he states the following:

"Cast bullets used in handloads and factory ammunition are sized .510 inch and .511 inch, respectively, all of which gave excellent accuracy."

He also states:

"The bore is .500 inch while the groove is .507/.508 inch."

[salpal48]

The currently 50/95 Brass is not based on original Winchester spec. It is based on a 50/110 Brass which is not Correct. In original Winchester spec the case need a Rim size of appox .628. . this is the same problem as the Repro 45/75 . if you have Original which I have shows the Difference.
since there is No current Base case on the market , These repro are based on this starline case