cast boolit & non-expanding laws

[30hrrtt]

For the first time in 35 years was deer hunting and a warden checked me out. I was walking back to my car parked by the road. He was driving by and as I was near he waited for me to get back. After the license check and niceities, he asked if I was using a 30-30. I was carrying a Winchester 94 trapper. I said no it was a 44 magnum. He asked to see one of my rounds. I was using Lymann 429244 cast with ww + 2%. We have a law that prohibits use of ammunition with non-expanding bullets. He took it and did his fingernail test. I said it was soft as I casted it myself to expand. He said he could see that and wished me luck. I was surprised that he checked and for some reason even more surprised that he seemed to understand those things we call boolits.

[41 mag fan]

Well at least he didnt press any issues.
About 16 yrs ago I got stopped by a Federal Game Warden.....I've never heard of Federal before...but thats what he said he was. Flashed some badge at me....
I was hunting private property, not even close to any federal or state land at the time.
I was bow hunting. He checked everything on me...license, bow, arrows, broadheads....even pulled my bow back to see if I was using " a legal poundage". Which mine was set at 65 lbs.
After that he got in his car and drove off not even saying have a nice day or see ya or anything. Wierdest encounter I ever had.

[Lefty SRH]

We have the same law in Alabama. I have some jacketed ammo loaded just in case, but rather hunt with cast. But in the mean time I have taken some 250gr Keith .44's to work and center drilled the meplat to make it a HP boolit.
I asked a Game Warden at a gun show one time and he said "honestly I couldn't tell you if cast are legal or not...." Guess I'll find out some day.

[sqlbullet]

I am glad you had a good encounter.

Laws like this make me see red. Do we really expect our game officers to become experts in terminal ballistics? It seems they would have to be in order to determine what rounds are "expanding" and what ones aren't.

Laws like this depend on what we call colloquially "common sense" which isn't really all that common.

[Mk42gunner]

Under Missouri's methods allowed for firearms deer hunting it lists:

- "Centerfire pistol, revolver, or rifle using expanding-type bullets. Legal ammuntion includes lead bullets, copper bullets, and bullets made of other material designed to expand."

Specifically mentioning lead projectiles is new- within the last few years, anyway.

They prohibit full hard metal case projectiles, I don't know what a Game Warden would do if someone actually had some of the fmj's that are designed to expand, (I think somebody makes these for the backward states like New Jersey that outlaws hollow point defensive ammo).

What they would do if someone had heat treated their boolits to about 29 BHN, I have no idea.

The good point is they specifically allow lead boolits.

The bad points are that legally you could use a .25 ACP Colt Jr. or a .22 Velo Dog.

Robert

[30hrrtt]

Wisconsin law is a little vague. It reads - It is unlawful to hunt deer with ammunition loaded with non-expanding type bullets.

Honestly I pretty much ignored it as I couldn't ever see it as an issue. It does require common sense. Guess I lucked out.

[dakotashooter2]

I suspect the intent in almost all cases is to prohibit FMJ's. Though I wouldn't want to test that in an anti-gun state.

[mpmarty]

I live on a quarter section of land in the middle of Oregons best Elk country and my place has more game on it than you can believe. I've got a shooting range in a blind canyon and frequently hold impromptu "steel matches" for friends. Once a State game warden drove in and asked what was going on. I asked him if he was in possession of a warrant and if not what the he!! was he doing on private property. I have since posted the main entrance to my place with a large sign stating that no state, county or federal employee or agent was allowed on my property. So far so good. We'll see what happens next.:takinWiz::takinWiz:

[376Steyr]

I'm pretty sure the original intent of the "non-expanding bullet" laws was to keep hunters from using military surplus FMJ ammo, since everybody "knows" that a military FMJ is designed to "drill a hole straight through" (it isn't, but that's another story) allowing game to escape that would otherwise be bagged. Of course, after a lawyer politician puts this concept into a law and a petty official gets to enforce it, strange things can happen.

[Dannix]

If cooper mono (http://www.gsgroup.co.za/03fn.html) is considered acceptable i.e. expanding, lead certainly is. That's my thought anyway.

[MtGun44]

The copper ones are HPs, so that is easy for them to understand. Huge numbers of
Barnes ads showing perfect mushrooms also helps.

Bill

[Dannix]

The copper ones are HPs, so that is easy for them to understand. Huge numbers of
Barnes ads showing perfect mushrooms also helps.

Bill

The ones linked are FN. Really only expands and rather high velocities.

[BAGTIC]

[QUOTE=Mk42gunner;1474399]Under Missouri's methods allowed for firearms deer hunting it lists:

- "Centerfire pistol, revolver, or rifle using expanding-type bullets. Legal ammuntion includes lead bullets, copper bullets, and bullets made of other material designed to expand."
Specifically mentioning lead projectiles is new- within the last few years, anyway.


It would depend on which judge you got as legally the way the phrase is written the determining phrase is "...designed to expand" not the lead or copper part. A steel bullet made to expand would also qualify.

[x101airborne]

You were lucky you got a warden that knew his hole from any other. Kinda rare these days like free ranging B&C whitetails. They are there, but good luck finding one.

In Texas, wardens dont need a warrant even to enter your house if they think you are in posession of illegally taken game. Never heard of one doing it, but it is within their powers.