What Would You Do...

[ColColt]

If you were down to your last 10 pounds of ww's and you lived in a area where they just weren't available or not in any great quantities, what would your alloy consist of to simulate ww's? I'm running into that situation and thought of mixing pure lead with a little LT or some 50/50 lead-LT.

[An_Orphanage]

I currently don't use WW as I've not found a source locally that's not already taken, or being sold for scrap value (the idea of saving money with lead is ruined when having to compete with scrap dealers IMHO).

Personally I mine backstops for lead whenever I'm at the range. I maintain roughly the same hardness by keeping the depth an automatic center punch marks on my .38/357 SWC close to the same.

Also not sure about LT as I've never had any to work with :neutral:

[nighthunter]

I would attatch a piece of spider wire fishing line to the base of each bullet (with super glue) before loading it so I could be assured of retrieving every bullet so it could be cast into new bullets. Your linotype and soft lead are no good for bullet casting. Just send it all to me and I will dispose of it for you. Heck .... I'll even send you a new spool of spider wire.

Nighthunter

[canyon-ghost]

Can just pay $1 a pound in the Swapping and Selling section and get more.

I'd mix linotype and lead in the biggest batch possible, doing that ingot by ingot got me in trouble once. And ask the guys about what percentage to use. It doesn't take much lino to lead. You can pour pure lino for rifle, but I'd think that's too hard and possibly disentigrate.

[10 ga]

Check out the swap/sell forum and the vendors forum. They have WW and range scrap and soft lead and isotope lead for sale. I figure that if I don't have to drive to for and pay too much for WWs that it is OK but recently I get most of my lead at the scrap yard. I be retired so time don't count. If the time counted then buying on the forums would be cheapest by far. 10 ga

[cbrick]

what would your alloy consist of to simulate ww's?

Something I've given some consideration to myself. I'm not down to 10 pounds but it is steadily going away so I did some experiments with the 800 pounds of stick-on weights I have in 5 pound ingots by blending Roto Metals Super Hard to 3% antimony by weight and added 2% Sn by weight. For the limited amount of this alloy I made up it worked very well in everything I use COWW for which is almost everything. It is a tad harder than air cooled WW but the 3% Sb could be cut back a bit if needed.

Yep, Super Hard costs money but facing reality the days of free or even really cheap lead is about over I think.

Rick

[Ed_Shot]

RotoMetals has a sale on now. I got 50 lbs of SuperHard at their LaborDay sale this year and I have stopped scrounging for WW. Mixed SuperHard with scrap lead to get 3% antimony then added 2% tin....gave me same weight and diameter I was getting with WW + 2% tin. And, stopped worring about zinc in the melt.

[ColColt]

It seems like once before I used 5 lbs of lead to about 3 lbs of 50/50 mix and got a comparable hardness in the range of BHN11.5 or 12 but can't recall, unfortunately

[btroj]

I am currently shooting lots of range scrap. I use it as is for handgun ammo, seems to be working quite well.
I haven't melted down a WW in many, many years.

[ku4hx]

If we live long enough, we'll all likely get to the point where we buy a good portion of the alloy we need. Scrounging sources are drying up and from what I've seen over the last 40+ years it's only going to get worse.

[leadman]

Go to the LASC site at the bottom of this page for alloying info.

[bumpo628]

If you were down to your last 10 pounds of ww's and you lived in a area where they just weren't available or not in any great quantities, what would your alloy consist of to simulate ww's? I'm running into that situation and thought of mixing pure lead with a little LT or some 50/50 lead-LT.

If WW lead is 0.5% tin and 3% antimony, then here are some options:
1 lb lino + 9 lbs pure = alloy with 0.4% tin, 1.2% antimony
2 lb lino + 8 lbs pure = alloy with 0.8% tin, 2.4% antimony
3 lb lino + 7 lbs pure = alloy with 1.2% tin, 3.6% antimony
4 lb lino + 6 lbs pure = alloy with 1.6% tin, 4.8% antimony
5 lb lino + 5 lbs pure = alloy with 2.0% tin, 6.0% antimony (aka Hardball)

It looks like the 2/8 mix is the best one for a WW replacement.

EDIT:
Looking at it again, maybe you'll like this one better:
2.5 lb lino + 7.5 lbs pure = alloy with 1.0% tin, 3.0% antimony

[220swiftfn]

I currently don't use WW as I've not found a source locally that's not already taken, or being sold for scrap value (the idea of saving money with lead is ruined when having to compete with scrap dealers IMHO).

Personally I mine backstops for lead whenever I'm at the range. I maintain roughly the same hardness by keeping the depth an automatic center punch marks on my .38/357 SWC close to the same.

Also not sure about LT as I've never had any to work with :neutral:

I'd rethink the savings aspect (even if you have to compete with scrappers) seeing as a boolet cast from lead that cost you $1/lb is still only 2.8 cents...... Bottom line is that scrap yards only offer about .20/lb, so it really isn't hard to beat their offer and save money at the same time, if that runs you into .75/lb for raw, you're better off to spend $1/lb here for ingotted.


Dan

[Jal5]

my alloys are about 90% of the time composed of range scrap plus whatever I feel the need to add for more hardness. I have had a lot of difficulty getting WW, the scores are few and far between but plenty of range scrap. Joe

[sqlbullet]

This is the reason many of us work hard at the get all you can mentality.

Bumpo has given you good formulas for stretching your linotype with pure lead. But, you might stretch it even further trading here for WW.

[Reload3006]

I do cast my own and I really like using WW alloy but I also swage my own and I have found that a lot of times softer lead is even better. So not to worry you may have to adjust your load and use Pure PB or alloy your own Antimony and Tin aren't that scarce go to your local scrap yard and buy scrap lead Antimony and tin ... My favorite ratio is 92% lead 6% antimony and 2% tin.

[MtGun44]

I have used 50-50 Pb-Lino for pistol and rifle and it is a really excellent alloy.
You will find it casts well and is hardenable if you want, and adequate hardness
to work extremely well for all the uses I tried it for with just air cooling.

Bill

[ColColt]

Go to the LASC site at the bottom of this page for alloying info.

Thanks-I've read quite a lot on Gene's website and he's a wealth of information.

bumpo-Gracious thanks for those formulas. I'm looking for about BHN12 and it seems the 2/8 mix may produce that and perhaps a bit softer. Some experimentation may be in order.

Bill-I used 50/50 for years but didn't know at the time what the hardness value was then. Usually it'll test out about BHN15 which is a tad harder than I really need for most of my shooting, i.e., medium velocity loads for 357 and standard/target loads for the 45 ACP and 44 Mag. Wheel weights were great with a bit of tin added but as mentioned, that alloy is getting low and not readily available around here much anymore. I have pure tin ( from RotoMetals), lead and LT and about 70 pounds of 50/50. I may try 5/3, LT to pb to get that ww equivalent.

[cbrick]

Go to the LASC site at the bottom of this page for alloying info.


Thanks-I've read quite a lot on Gene's website and he's a wealth of information.

Hhhmmm . . . Who is this Gene?

Rick

[williamwaco]

ColColt

I am sympathetic to your plight.
I have two recomendations:

1: I have bought two batches of reclaimed bullet cores ( Ingots). Do not buy the actual reclaimed bullets. Both batches measured 8 BNH. They do not have enough tin to cast pretty bullets but they will cast plinkers OK. I have made two alloys with this as a base. First alloy was 69 ounces of reclaimed bullet cores and 21 ounces of pure LT. The result was a very successful alloy with BNH 10.5.

2: I also made 50/50 reclaimed bullet cores and pure LT. Also a very nice hard alloy at BNH 14. That is very similar to WW but makes much prettier bullets. I use this alloy frequently when I don't have WWs.

Another suggestion:

I can buy clip on wheel weights by the ton. I am not sure there is a reasonable limit to how many I could buy but - they cost $1.00 per pound.

Really clean WWs smelt with a loss of about 15% Dirty ones closer to 30%. This makes my cost $1.17 per pound for the very cleanest weights Plus several hours work.

I just this minute checked Swappin and Selling. The first three listings I found average slightly less that $1.00 per pound -

DELIVERED TO YOUR FRONT PORCH.

Check with member odinohi

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=9358

for a good deal and good service.


I have bought from him four times now.


Of course, If you can still find some of those free or fifty cent wheel weights, so much the better.



.


.

[btroj]

Wheel weights have no magical properties. They are a lead based alloy.
With pure lead, some Linotype, and a bit of magnum shot for As we can get as close as we need. Heck, we can make alloys that are even better for some situations.
I don't use any wheel weights right now. I mix and match what I have. My most commonly used base is range scrap. The range I shoot at has numerous pistol pits so it is easy to get a couple hundred pounds per year. This is by just spending a few minutes every time I go out. Nothing quite like coming home with more lead than I left with.

[hiram]

LT is 5% tin. If you mix 5# lead and 1# LT, you will have a mixture with 1% tin. That should be enough for good casting since guys cast with straight ww and get good results. 50/50 lead/LT is way too rich in tin and therefore a waste of tin.

[ColColt]

Hhhmmm . . . Who is this Gene?

Rick


Oops...I meant Glen-fingers got ahead of my brain.

[MtGun44]

Back when I was doing 50-50 Pb-Lino, I was still of the mind that this might not be hard enough.

I now know that range lead at about 8 BHN will work just fine for full mag loads if I use
a Keith, LBT blue and fit the boolits properly, and use 2400 or H110. This hardness stuff
has really gotten out of hand. I usually add a dollop (that is a precision measurement term, ya know)
of tin to make them look really nice.

Bill

[cbrick]

Oops...I meant Glen-fingers got ahead of my brain.

LASC is not Glen's web site, fact is that Glen does not have a web site though I do publish everything of Glen's that I can on my web site including the book and as many articles that I can get. [smilie=l:

Rick

[williamwaco]

Back when I was doing 50-50 Pb-Lino, I was still of the mind that this might not be hard enough.

I now know that range lead at about 8 BHN will work just fine for full mag loads if I use a Keith, LBT blue and fit the boolits properly, and use 2400 or H110. This hardness stuff has really gotten out of hand. I usually add a dollop (that is a precision measurement term, ya know) of tin to make them look really nice.

Bill



Bill!

Amen!

I am really happy to hear you say that. That is the statement of a man that has done more shooting than he has reading.


I am also familiar with the dollop. It is just about two smidges.




.

[ColColt]

LASC is not Glen's web site, fact is that Glen does not have a web site though I do publish everything of Glen's that I can on my web site including the book and as many articles that I can get. [smilie=l:

Rick

LASC is YOUR website? Well, goes to show what this old feller knows. When I first saw the link for LASC some while back, all I saw was articles he had done on lead boolits. I reckon that's where I got it from. Many apologies my good man.:-)

[cbrick]

Not a problem Col, I was havin some fun with ya.

I am quite blessed and grateful that Glen (not Gene [smilie=1:) submits his work for publishing on my site. To me he is one of the very best gun writers today. I have been pig hunting with him up in Oregon and was fortunate to get to know him some; he has earned my respect as a friend and as a writer. He is knowledgeable and shares his knowledge freely.

Rick

[ColColt]

I saw your location and put two and two together and thought, "Well, I'll be dipped!! Next time you two get together maybe ya'll can throw holy water(by proxy of course) on my GP100 and bless it..it needs it badly. But, I'm going to bed on that one as I don't want to have nightmares again.:holysheep

[wb_carpenter]

I have never had a good stockpile of lead but I'm working on it. I have a couple sources who said they would sell me a 5 gal bucket of WW for $25 in a couple weeks so I am hopeful of that.

In the mean time Swappin and selling is holding me over and being in a townhouse I would probably trade the raw for ingots anyway rather than smelt myself.

[41mag]

Well unfortunately for me, I got into this WAY too late, and the could have, should have, would have, has bitten me pretty hard. In my area there is a huge concentration of casters spread out all around, so any sources of WW's now are either all sold, recycled, or have 3-4 folks already contending for them.

When I started gearing up back in the first part of this year, I only had about 3/4 of a bucket of WW, that I had on hand for 12 or more years. I used it to make up large surf weights for shark fishing. I did manage to get a full bucket from one of my fishing buddies who graciously let me have them for free.

Since then I have purchased around 10 medium flat rate boxes of ingots from the members here, in an effort to build up somewhat of a stash. I try to get two boxes at a time so I have a better ratio of to be blended together with the next. Labor Day weekend, I took all I had on hand, separated it into individual piles, then pulling them together into equal piles of the different ingots, I smelted them together into one batch. So far it has done well for the 45 Colt, and 454 Casull loads I have used it in. It appears to be only a tad harder than my original WW alloy, as there was one batch of ingots, which was a bit harder and brought the BHN up a bit for the whole batch.

For me this is a much easier option than rooting all over town trying to keep ahead of the other folks. Even with the cost being a buck a pound, I feel it is still a better option, as everything has already been cleaned and fluxed at least once, and when I blend it up, I clean it at least once or twice again.

I have really come to appreciate the other members selling what extra they have, even with what they charge it is still cheaper than having to buy pure, and then blend it up to what I need. I don't see anything changing for the better around here unless my bud gets tired of all he had sitting around in his barn, and calls me to come get it. Until then I will continue to get what I can, when I can, and be happy I can do so.

I haven't started the burm mining just yet, but you can bet it is coming, and possibly even this weekend.