lee 230 tc

[makicjf]

i am not certain where to post this question, nor if anyone will have an "answer". Any guiding input woill be greatly appreciated, though.
I have a 45 acp load of the lee 230 tc (actual 238-240) loaded over 6 grains of unique to a oal of 1.170. This is the lenght that the will always headspace and rotate in the Ruger 45 acp cylinder. I was using several data sources and extrapolated from 230 rn information. this load shoots well and hits fairly close to my loight colt loads up to 20 yards. Not hot in a ruger, zero pressure signs. After shooting some colt loads it actually feels like a .38 special load.
My issue is this, I am planning on buying a RIA .45 commander in the next few months and have 500+ of the above load listed. I do not know if this load will be safe in a RIA 1911. I'm afraid what is a safe plinking load in the ruger will be excessive in the 1911. Any sources or input?
Thanks,
jason

[DrNick]

I can't speak for the Unique but I load that boolit over 4.5 grains of tightgroup. I have NEVER had a more accurate and pleasant to shoot combination. No problems hitting targets as small as an inch at 25yards with my Colt Series 70. Stinrgs of 8 rounds resuted in one ragged hole at 15 yards. Damn good boolit.

[williamwaco]

Do you have a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook?

Looks like you have been reading mine.

They list that exact bullet with that exact OAL with a starting load of 5.2 and a max load of 5.7 grains of Unique.

You be the judge.



.

[Larry Gibson]

Well, Lyman's #4 shows 5.7 gr as "max" for that bullet. However, several manals show 6 - 6.5 gr of Unique as max for a 230 jacketed bullet. I've shot lot's of 6.5 gr Unique loads under 225-230 gr cast bullets in several M1911s over the years with nothing but positive results. I know that 6.2 gr Unique under a commercial hardcast 230 gr bullet does not go over the SAAMI MAP for the 45 ACP (I measured the psi) in a Contender barrel. I would try your loads in my M1911 if it was me but you are not me....it's your decision.

Larry Gibson

[makicjf]

Thanks guys,
I had seen the data "somewhere" for the 5.7 at 1.170 anfd that is what made me leary. I was debating due to the very fact I had seen 230 jacketed rounds up to 6.4 seated to a depth of 1.20. This would put roughly the same amount of boolit inside the case as the 230 tc at 1.170.
I have a few months so maybe I'll empty the hulls in the ruger and refill them at 5.5 of unique.
Thanks
Jason

[SkookumJeff]

If it was me, I'd hold off on emptying those loaded cases, load up some test loads starting at 5 grains and work up to the 6 grain load you are using now. You're probably OK, but that's (IMO) the safe way to go about it.

[makicjf]

(Smacking Head) That is a great idea! Simple, concise and practical. I am "fairly" certain these loads should be high middle as far as pressure goes. I'll save 'em, and find out if they are safe or not. they are not so far out of spec to be foolish, so sneaking up on "em should work.
Thanks
Jason

[fredj338]

Your OAL is quite short & will increase pressures, but 6gr of Unqiue under a 230-235gr bullet is classic 45acp ball equiv.

[gray wolf]

If it was me, I'd hold off on emptying those loaded cases, load up some test loads starting at 5 grains and work up to the 6 grain load you are using now. You're probably OK, but that's (IMO) the safe way to go about it.
__________________

Now that's what I call sound advise ,
It may prove to be safe but may not be the most accurate. Working up will give you the best of both worlds EH.

[makicjf]

I think some of the reason for the short oal is a stubby boolit. In order for th case to headspace in the ruger acp cylinder I have to go right to the edge of the "shoulder", or more precisley where the angle starts into the nose. I am shooting in the dark a bit as I do not have a 1911 yet. The RIA .45 may allow for a longer oal. i am just hoping the blue plastic tote full of acp loads will be usable in a 1911. I read somewhere (but have not done the math myself) that this boolit at 1.170 has the same amount in the case as a jacketed hollow point at 1.20. My speer 12 shows that topping out at 6.4 of unique (if I remember correctly).
you are correct. I was not concerned about the charge but the stubby cartridge and the possible pressure spikes. If the 1.170 has the same amount within the case as the 1.20 jacketed hollow point i should be golden. If I had one I'd measure and do some calculating.
Thanks
Jason

[makicjf]

Working up a load for a new gun is also viable. What works well in the 4 5/8 BH may not work in the RIA 45 Acp. So many choices! LOL
Man, i love it here
Jason

[fredj338]

I think some of the reason for the short oal is a stubby boolit. In order for th case to headspace in the ruger acp cylinder I have to go right to the edge of the "shoulder", or more precisley where the angle starts into the nose. I am shooting in the dark a bit as I do not have a 1911 yet. The RIA .45 may allow for a longer oal. i am just hoping the blue plastic tote full of acp loads will be usable in a 1911. I read somewhere (but have not done the math myself) that this boolit at 1.170 has the same amount in the case as a jacketed hollow point at 1.20. My speer 12 shows that topping out at 6.4 of unique (if I remember correctly).
you are correct. I was not concerned about the charge but the stubby cartridge and the possible pressure spikes. If the 1.170 has the same amount within the case as the 1.20 jacketed hollow point i should be golden. If I had one I'd measure and do some calculating.
Thanks
Jason

Remember lead bulelt do NOT load like jacketed, yo uhave to back off a bit. Did you measure the cyl throat in your Ruger? If like mine, they are like tight @ 0.4505-0.451". So they will not quite fit where the 0.452" shank starts to hit the throat. I doubt yo uhave pressure issues w/ Unique, it's reasonably forgiving. It is a full power load for sure.

[sqlbullet]

As others have said work up to the load with empty brass and see if all looks good.

I checked the Alliant data. The list 5.8 gr as max with lead, but 6.5 grains as max with a TJM. I think you are fine, but would work up to be safe. Each gun can have it's own little fit about something.

[35remington]

Proper OAL with this bullet for most 1911 pattern pistols in in the range of 1.200-1.220."

Six of Unique will not be at all excessive with this bullet, and should provide a bit more than factory velocities, but that information comes from a guy that shoots them at the specified length above.

At the OAL mentioned (1.220") using that very bullet, I get around 860 fps using six grains. Larger amounts of Unique would exceed ball velocities. 6.5 grains used to be the "standard" load for 1911's, but I note that this amount of Unique behind the various 230 cast bullets quite considerably exceed 900 fps, on up to 950 fps with some designs. This is well past ball duplication velocity so lesser amounts are more appropriate.

Your 1911 may feed them just fine at this OAL. However, on average, most 1911's like a little more overall length. Your deeper seating/shorter OAL should increase velocities over what I have obtained. Excessively deep seating is to be avoided and you're using all the seating depth that can be applied. A little less would be better.

If your Ruger pistol is that fussy as to OAL, I see separate loading for automatic and revolver in your future.

The odds of reliable function for 1911's increase when overall lengths approximate normal values. You're somewhat short of optimum. Not to say they won't feed, as they very well may, but it's best to hit the optimum part of the functioning envelope, rather than riding the edge of it.

Reliable feeding is mostly about increasing the odds in your favor.

[45-70marlin]

I use 5.5 of Unique with this bullet , but my buddy uses 6.0gr. in his 1911's. he called Alliant and they said the load was safe.

[Boolseye]

I have an RIA 1911. That OAL sounds very short to me, which will increase pressures. I would be skeptical about jumping right in at that level, but it's your call. You won't need them anywhere near that short with your RIA, assuming it feeds them. My RIA doesn't have a throated barrel (yet) and the manual said only use ball ammo. I have fed it semiwadcutters, but it doesn't always like them. It may balk at the TC profile out of the box. The RIA is a rugged beast and will handle any safe load you throw at it.

[gefiltephish]

My RIA FS likes that bullet at 1.190 over 4.3gr WST. Middle of the road load as I recall. Generally, my RIA CS likes 'em a little shorter but I don't have the oal for this bullet in the CS, maybe I never tried it. As always, just use YOUR barrels chamber to determine OAL.

[frkelly74]

My tc mold casts quite heavy with the alloy I have been using, So I stat low on the powder charges to just get functioning. Also I have found that the boolit needs to be seated deep or the round will not chamber. Both these issues have been mentioned up the line and I just reiterate them.

[makicjf]

I thank ya'll for your informative and insightful input. I think I am just going to keep plinking away with the ruger and build an appropriate load for the 1911 when I get it. That seems to be the most reasonable course of action. If the 1911 loads don't work in the Ruger its not really a problem. Thanks for the education.
Jason

[zxcvbob]

That's also a great boolit for .45 Colt.

[makicjf]

I liked it in the Ruger in 45 colt, but it did not want to cycle well in the rossi. If I remember correctly, my oal crimping into the top lube groove(tumble lube style) was 1.640, and I think the lenght coupled with the angle of the nose stymied cycling. Oddly, the lee 300 gc seated to 1.640 cycles like Lance Armstrong. Maybe it was the nose angle. When shooting non hunting loads in the ruger in 45 colt I use the Lee 252 SWC. Out of ww it cast between 253 and 255 and kills logs, water bottles and paper with vehemence when loaded over 10.5 of unique. Works great in the rossi 92 as well.

[cabezaverde]

I realize that this is an old thread. Does anyone have a photo of that Lyman #4 data?

[Camper64]

237691

[cabezaverde]

237691

Thank you

[Walks]

Yep an old thread.
I load the Lee #452-225-TC in my. 45Colt. Have used that bullet or one like it for Cowboy Shooting for over 30yrs. Use it in .45ACP too.
And an even shorter over all length of 1.160