H110 and W296

[Southpaw 72]

Thought these were the same? Got the Lyman 4th edition cast bullet handbook and I was looking through loads for the 454.H-110 shows starting load of 25.4 and a max of 26.2 for 325 gr cast. W-296 shows a start of 23.7 and a max of 24.5. Almost 2 gr difference. Someone here know if the powder has changed?:?

[myfriendis410]

It's possible that the 296 inventory was manufactured some time ago and the newer H110 is just slightly different in it's behaviour. My understanding is that they are both the same powder. Powder does morph over time from lot to lot, even though every effort is made to produce them to the same standards. This could account for the slight difference in load values. That's all I can figure.

[Rocky Raab]

H110/W296 powder is the same, within normal lot-lot variation. Canister powders are held to a ±5% variation standard (a SAAMI rule) but almost all companies have a more stringent ±3% standard of their own. Still, that would allow a bottle of H being as much as 6% different from a bottle of W. How that might affect maximum charge weights is not linear, so you might conceivably see more than 6% difference in charge weight to meet a given maximum pressure.

Also consider the reality of lab work. When a lab comes out with a new manual, they don't re-shoot every single thing. Sometimes, they simply reprint all the previous data for a cartridge, sometimes they test only new powders or bullets with a given cartridge, and sometimes they re-test only selected powders. There simply isn't time to re-test every single combination of every cartridge, or new manuals would come out only every 20 years.

The data you quote does seem odd, though.

[Larry Gibson]

Rocky nailed it; Normal production lot to lot variation and not all loads retested.

Not understanding lot to lot variation is how, in my opinion, we also have many believing that the newer Alliant 2400 is different than the older Hercules 2400.

Larry Gibson

[chboats]

For further proof that they are supposed to be the same now. If you look in the Hodgdon loading data you will find data for H110 and 296 with the exact same carge, velocity and presure for the two powders. I'm not sure you could get those kinds of readings on two seperate tests out of the same canistor.

Carl

[leadman]

I have both 110 and 296 on the shelf. One can of 296 is the old white metal bottle, the other is newer plastic. The 110 is the newer plastic bottle.
The 2 bottles of 296 have the same appearance, the bottle of 110 is a lighter grey color and the size of the powder is slightly different.
I will have to do a test with these and shoot them over the Chrony and see what comes up.

[frnkeore]

Leadman,
I have the same thing in stock with my powders. Different colors, I haven't compared the grain size though but, I will.

Back when Winchester supplied Hodgdon with powder and Hodgdon had no control over it, I do not believe they were of the same composition (296 & H110). I believe the deterent, at least was different. In part because of the color and because, in the 90's I read a article regarding a test of the two powders. In that test pictures were taken of the muzzle flash and they were distinctly different colors. Now you can say that lot to lot variations can account for velocity/pressure variations but, the color of the muzzle flash can't be attributed to lot variations.

Frank

[Rocky Raab]

Those differences might be attributable to different base (raw materials) in the separate runs of those powders, Frank. That's a possibility, but I'm not asserting it for the obvious reason that's there's no way to know.

At various points in the manufacturing process, samples of what will eventually be canister powder are tested. If the sample doesn't come up to expectations, they can add more of something earlier or withhold a bit of something else later on. It's a lot like making soup, when you taste it and think "Needs a bit more salt."

That tweaking can in fact alter the end color, and they sometimes have to alter grain size to match a target burn rate. So it is possible that a run of H110 might look a bit different than a different run destined to be W296. More or less of a given additive might also change muzzle flash. Again, I'm only offering hypothetical explanations for what has been observed by you and others.