Looking for some 1911 Troubleshootin please

[NVScouter]

Gun:

Rock Island Compact in 45Auto. US machines built in the Philipines, budget 1911. Overall I really like this pistol a lot but feeding has been an issue. I read a really good 1911 article about clean up of burs and common issues. That is really my only back ground here but here is what I've done.

When I first got it the guy before me changed out the beavertail and trigger. Suposedly no springs and had 300 rounds though it with no failures to feed/fire.

I bought 100rounds of Remmington 230FMJ and noticed that about every 15th round hung up a bit on the frame side feed ramp. There was a bit of a hump there I removed then polished with 400 grit wetsand.

I then loaded up some 185g Hornady JHP and some commercial cast. I started getting failure to return to full battery with 1/8-1/4" before the slide would close. A tiny tap or push would close it and I was back at it.

No irritated I cleaned up a bur on the barrel's feed ramp, under the slide, bushings, ejector, etc. I also bought a new Wilson combat magazine, stripped the oil from it and greased/oiled from advise here.

The next day I went to our indoor range and shot 50 155g TC lead free rounds.

Grouping was literaly 1/2 from before with 2.5" groups off hand semi'rapid fire at 50'. I did get a couple of those big TCs to catch the bottom of the barrel a bit and more failure to return to battery. When I got home I found another lip in the barrel to remove.

So this weekend I loaded up and shot: 50 Bearcreek 165g RNFP, 50 210g RNFP, 3 Meister 200gRN, 50 Lee 200 SWC LLA tumble lubed. All over 5g of Tightgroup.

All but the SWC fed great but with lots of slide bumping to get it forward. The SWC worked fine out of the Wilson Mag but I could only load my ACT mag to 6 or it would jam one in the barrel/frame gap. Also the LLA isnt going to cut it on this boolit. I fired them last and I cant see the rifling anymore. Even 8 FMJ only cleared out part of it. I'll grab some plated tomorrow to blow it out since I already spent an hour on it and maybe got half.

Tonight I got home and completely dissassembled the slide. I filed out the extractor a bit and basicly completed the angles that were already there. Then followed up with 400g wetsand to polish it. Cleaned and inspected everything else.

Sorry for the long explination.

So what I think is this: Since a 1911 feeds the case in the extractor from below my rough extractor was causing the hang ups for the slide to complete it's forward movement. I also am wondering if the recoil spring was replaced with a lighter one or the stock one is crapola.

Also any hints on getting that 200gSWC shooting reliably?

I'm loading up some more this week but this takes forever on a single stage press! Any help would be apreciated.

[kennyb]

My RI 1911 fails to go to battery when its really dirty, I think a lot of your issues would clear up with some proper cleaning. I use Barnes barrel cleaner on my 1911. I'm shooting 230 RN cast bullets and clean my ramp and barrel after about 75 rounds, when my accuracy goes south.

[NVScouter]

Its had lots of cleaning. After my first 100 rounds I used a whole can of PB Blaster to blow out any left over machine dust and powder. Then cleaned it after each shooting session with my last one being extremely thorough.

If it started to go south after 50-100 rounds that would be one thing. Sometime is shoot 4 and jams sometimes it shoots 25.

[bobthenailer]

A wilson magazine will be needed for almost all ammo that is not 230 gr hardball if the factory mag is not modfied from the factory for other types of ammo ? the lighter weight bullets under 200 gr are a little more finickey in the feeding department . COL is critical with cast bullets you want about approxematly 1/16 of a inch of the bullet forward driving band to protude out from the mouth of the case for best feeding.
after loading some rounds try your ammo , remove your barrel from the gun & try every round in the chamber and see if it will fall out when tilting up the barrel and that every case head is level with the barrel hood extension if not correct the problem by changing COL . Ive run into a few 45 acp as of late that are short chambered for the use of cast bullets , but ok with jacketed , a finishing reamer with a slightly longer throat cut for cast bullets will solve the problem .

[docone31]

I second the magazine.
I have a 1911 that will not feed 200gn HPs. Change out the mag, and it is not an issue.

[skeet1]

NVScouter,
When loading the SWC's are you using any crimp? When I first got my 1911 I would just straighten out the bell on the case mouth and got a failure to chamber just like yours. I then started to crimp over the front edge of the boolit and that has cleared up the problem.

Ken

[JJC]

Maybe it needs to be broke in some more? I have a Kimber that took about 800 rounds before it became reliable. After the 450-500 round break in per the manual I called Kimber. Thay said it was probably a tight chamber, shoot another three or four hundred and call us if you still have the problem. Same problems fail to feed, extract, go into battery fully.

[scrapcan]

do a search on this forum for 1911 magazine analysis or go to M1911.org and look up the article on magazine comparison.

Also the kuhnhausen 1911 manual has a good discussion of seating depth for swc profile bullets.

[ole 5 hole group]

Sounds like you’ve polished everything that might cause a FTF, so the next step would probably be a recoil spring replacement followed by a mag change if the problem persists.

I would suspect your current recoil spring is 16#’s and may be getting a little weak, but in any event, I’d suggest replacing it with the wolff 18.5# variable power recoil spring and if the problem continues then I’d recommend the Tripp mag, as they don’t come any better – however, the Wilson 47D is also good. They cost an arm and a leg but they will give you many years of trouble free service.

[waksupi]

If you are using a roll crimp, go to a taper crimp.

[CJR]

NVShooter,

Failures to go to battery/full lock -up can be caused by:
1. Gun not broken in. Typical break-in period is 500-600 rds or more.
2. Long OAL of round, particularly with truncated bullet designs or blunter round nose rds. Bullet ogive or TC cone/cylinder junction hits the barrel rifling in front of the chamber and prevents fuil lock-up (some slide energy is used to re-seat a long seated TC bullet in the case instead of closing the slide). Fixes are shorter OAL, slight taper throating of rifling (chamber throating reamers are available from Brownells).
3. Warped/oval-shaped chamber. Fix is to ream/true chamber with a precision reamer(i.e. Mansen).
4. Weak recoil spring. Typical round wire springs give up the ghost around 200-300 rds. Fix is to convert to flat spring ISMI springs/recoil guide rod assembly and get almost endless spring life and reliability.
5. Because compact 1911 are short cycle weapons, mags can be critical. Cobra mags place top rd about 0.080" higher than standard mags. Latest Wilson mags copied this feature and now place the top rd higher also. These mags give the top rd. a straighter path to the chamber. Standard mags can be modified/rebent to get the top rd. higher.
6. As mentioned, a tight extractor can also slow the rd. as it slides up into the extractor. Fit and tensioning is the cure.
7. Rough recoil breech surface in slide can be rough and slow the rd as it slides up. Fix is to CAREFULLY polish the slide breech surface so rd. slides up easily.

Hope this helps. My RIA compact runs well and goes bang everytime.

Best regards,

CJR

[tomme boy]

Measure the crimp. At the very edge of the brass. If it is over .471" tighten the die down until it does.

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned the feeding is probably magazine related. That can be cured, as also mentioned, by new mags of the proper design or modifying the ones you have. I'd say you have polished enough.

The failure to fully chamber is almost always ammo related. The clue is that the factory Remington ammo all chambered if they fed correctly. It is with your reloads that you've encountered the failure to go into battery problem. Thus the problem is not gun related but ammo related. Suggest you remove the barrel and use the actual chamber as a cartridge "gauge". All loaded rounds should easily drop into the chamber with the case head being flush with or below the end of the barrel hood extension.

Any resistance at all in chambering or any rounds not flush or below the hood extension means; the cases are not sized correctly, the case mouth bell is not completed removed or the bullet is not seated deep enough. The solutions are;

Ensure cases are full length sized (drop an unloaded, un belled and just sized case into the chamber to check-it should clunk right in the chamber).

As mentioned use a taper crimp to removed the case mouth bell. If you don't have a taper crimp and have any '06 family ('06, 270, 7x57, 8x57, etc. ( like to use a 6.5x55 FL die) FL dies remove the decapping stem and screw the FL die in just far enough to remove the case mouth bell and taper crimp.

Obvious if the bullet isn't seated deep enough seat it deeper so the loaded cartridge case mouth freely thunks into the chambers case mouth when the cartridge is dropped into the barrel. Againe, the case head must be flush with or slightly below the hood extension when the cartridge is chambered.

Larry Gibson

[sqlbullet]

I would second Larry's comments about them ammo. About 8 months ago I picked up a Para P16-40 and had it reamed to 10mm. I already had 2 other 10mm Auto's both from EAA/Tanfoglio.

The Para ate my 205 grain RFN just fine, but refused to feed my 175 gr SWC rounds. These rounds all worked fine in the EAA Elite Match, but the 205's gave occasional issue in the full-size EAA.

The 175 gr rounds were seated to a COL of 1.260". I ran 50 or so of them through the seating die and pushed them back to 1.250". The all fed fine, compared to a stoppage every 5-6 rounds before. Ran back through all I had loaded (about 500) and since have had no issue.

Long way around to say, check every spec. I would bet you will find one that is a little fat or long, and that once you address this your issues will disappear.

[MtGun44]

Use the dismounted barrel as an ammo gage for your reloads when you are having failures
to close. Either boolit seated to far out and hitting the rifling (there will be marks) or not
enough taper crimp. A very large fraction of these failures are no or inadequate TC.

As to feeding, please post a good pic of the feed ramp area of the barrel.

Bill

[BD]

"Use the dismounted barrel as an ammo gage for your reloads when you are having failures
to close. Either boolit seated to far out and hitting the rifling (there will be marks) or not
enough taper crimp. A very large fraction of these failures are no or inadequate TC."

The above is the first step every time. While you're at it, try seating a SWC a bit long and dropping it in the barrel, then shorten it up bit by bit and watch how it chambers. IMO many 1911 SWC cast boolit shooters are actually headspacing their rounds on the .452 SWC lip against the .451 hole at the business end of the chamber.

The second step is to assemble the pistol without the recoil spring, load some dummys just like your desired rounds and cycle the rounds through by hand watching what happens. If you've got the "Fluff and Buff" done well you should be able to chamber each round and close the slide with just the pressure of your thumb. You will notice that the bullet nose hits the feed ramp differently as you cycle from the top round to the bottom round through a full mag. You should be able to see and feel the "hitch" when it occurs and address it. Also pay attention to how the cartridge is extracted and ejected. Put an empty case in the mix and watch how that extracts as well.

A lot of the time "break in" is actually wearing in the sharp edges of the upper barrel lugs and their lug recesses in the slide to alleviate a very minor discrepancy in the timing. A little clash at that point combined with a bullet that hits the ramp at a steep angle can be enough to stall the slide just short of lockup. You'll feel this when hand cycling without the recoil spring in place. Sit and play with the dummies in the action and you'll get a handle on things pretty quick. While your at it look at the nose profile and how it is presented by different mag styles. IMHO a drawback to SWCs seldom mentioned is that the rim of the extracted empty can catch the SWC "lip" as the extractor pulls it across the next cartridge for ejection depending on the angle that the mag lips present the cartridge.

Another interesting pass time is to insert a mag full of dummies in the receiver only, no slide, with the slide stop in and push them into the ramp one at a time with your thumb. Try it with a new mag spring, and a worn out one and watch the differences as you work down through the stack.

Have fun with it!
BD

[NVScouter]

Thank you all. I'm working through this this week. I just grabbed another 100rds of factory 230 FMJ to try tomorrow. I also loaded some hornady 185s and some more cast with my pan lube and sized to .452.

I've gotten my case mouths to .470 exactly and changed my OALs a bit on these loads.

The only gun mod I made was to remove and polish the extractor.

I'll update and post pics if this doesnt solve it.

[MtGun44]

Did you pull the barrel and use it as a gage for your ammo? Ammo should drop in and go
flush to the hood freely, or no more than 1 lb fingertip nudge. If not, look a the TC and
LOA - should be marks on the boolit if too long LOA.

Bill

[Ragnarok]

Something I've found in troublesome 1911 pistols..factorys pay no attention to how far the slide-stop nubbie sticks into the magwell!!

Ammo in the mag rise up and 'rub the nub'...causing the slide-stop to either lock the gun open with ammo still in the mag..or cause the slide-stop to 'delay' the slide...in effect killing the slide's momentum and leading to a 'failure to return to battery'..about the same as 'limp-wristing' the gun.

This could appear to be a feeding failure...and it's something that's easy to checkout and fix. Just lock the gun open..and insert a loaded mag slowly..see if the bullets are interfering with the slide-stop nub.