IMR4895 and 8mm Mauser

[offshore44]

Hello all! I need a little advice from the Cast Boolit hive mind.

I have a Yugo 24/47 that shoots the Saeco #081, 190 grn gas checked boolit way more accurately than I have any right to expect. The rifle is almost boringly accurate at 100 yards. My normal load is 32 grns of H4895 with the boolit seated so that the gas check is right at the bottom of the case neck. This puts the bore riding part of the boolit into the rifling. If you look closely at a previously chambered round, you can see faint rifling marks on the nose. Anyway, it seems to be working for me at the moment.

The question I have is this: I have a one pound can of IMR4895 that I would like to burn up. I know that H4895 works in this rifle and in my 458 Win Mag, so I have bought it in bulk. I would like to save what H4895 I have left for the 458 until I can afford another 8# jug.

I know that the 4895's are not the same. Any recommendations on a starting load or good load to shoot? Oh, I cast these out of Lyman #2 alloy.

[azrednek]

I can't say for certain it will apply to 4895 and sorry I can't give you any starting data. During the height of the shortages I called Hodgden's customer service on another matter. While I had him on the phone I asked about switching to H instead of IMR4350 in condom clad 300 Winny and 308 Norma. His response almost sounded robotic or pre-recorded. "Reduce your load 10%, slowly work your way up and check for signs of high pressure after every shot, would you like me to send you our current manual to verify the loading data". I assume the guy on the phone likely answers the same question numerous times every day. The rep went back to sounding human giving me an emphatic "NO" when I asked if the powders were the same.

[frnkeore]

My experiance with H4895 is that it's faster than IMR4895. I would place the burning rate right between 3031 and IMR4895. So, my advise would be use it at your H4895 level and if you have a chrony check out the speed and adjust accordingly. If not, go up a grain or two and see how it groups at each .5 gr increase.

Frank

[offshore44]

Thanks folks...

I would shoot it over my chrony...but I had an issue with it and haven't sent it in for repairs yet. Something about pushing the reset button with a cast 230 grn moving at 860 fps out of a 1911... The chrony DID reset though. ;)

Well, I've got a pound of it to burn up, so I'll do the load development thing. Start at 32 grns and go from there...

[Gunnut 45/454]

Yep I working up a load right now for the 8X57mm -a G98/40. I have used both in the 8X57mm and yes the IMR is a little slower burning . That was good advise to reduce by 10% of the H- starting load and work up! But we're talking cast which means you want to get lower ! Right now I'm starting at 31 gr for my 205 (actual wt 233gr) NEI cast. I'm on a quest for an accurate but comfortable round to shoot alot! I shot this 31 gr load today and it's a pretty stiff load so next batch will be 30gr!

[Larry Gibson]

I've 3 different lots of milsurp 4895, IMR4895 and H4895. I find that 29 gr of any of them with a 1/2 - 3/4 gr dacron filler is an excellent load under the GB 190 gr FN or the 200 gr 323471HP. Doesn't matter the flavor of 4895 that load always works very well in any 8x57 I've used it in.

Larry Gibson

[offshore44]

Everything is same-o - same-o except the powder here...

The 32 grain load of H4895 does shoot well. Sooooo...if I start out at 28.5 grns of IMR4895 and work up from there.

I've never used a filler in anything. Can I get away without it?

[nanuk]

Larry, what kind of velocity are you getting with that load?

[Old Iron Sights]

Just started casting for 8X57 and found that 32.5 gr IMR 4895 was dead on. Kinda matches your results. I have the Lee die which drops something around 175 grains though. These results were in a turk and K98.

[leadman]

A filler may be needed if you load less than about 32grs.

[Larry Gibson]

Out of a 24/47 with excellent bore the 29 gr H4895 load runs 1690 fps with the 210 gr 323471 and 1719 fps with the GB C325-190-FN. With IMR or milsurp 4895 it takes 30 - 31 gr to do the same. All are with the dacron filler.

Right about 32 gr of H4895 or 33 gr of IMR/milsurp4895 is where accuracy starts going south at 1900+ fps.

As an example I had about 500+ '39 Turk cases to use and I also had started making my own GCs. I put a load of 31 gr milsurp 4895 in them with a dacron filler and then seated some 190 gr GB bullets with both my own GCs and Hornady's. I shot 2 foulers and then 10 shots for record with each GC cleaning the barrel between groups. Now these were with unfired milsurp cases with original berdan primers and fairly soft cast cast bullets only inspected for obvious defects. The fouler/sighters certainly went close enough to group for hunting. As you can see from the 10 shot record groups the accuracy was very good for both GCs and for the load. Velocity, at 1805 fps, was a little lower than with fire formed commercial cases as it takes energy to expand the unfired harder Turk cases; more energy to expand case = less energy to push bullet = less velocity.

I loade the remaining Turk cases with that load and it made a great "walk about" load for my shooter M48. If I lost a case it didn't matter as they were throw aways anyway.:lovebooli

Larry Gibson

[offshore44]

Our results are very close to the same, Larry. Very close indeed. On a bad day the 24/47 shoots like your top target and on a good day it shoots like your bottom target. (OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration...on a bad day it looks like a long range shotgun pattern. That's my fault though, not the load or the rifle.) I am using the Saeco #081 190grn GC boolit cast with Lyman #2 alloy. Hornady gas checks. Blue Angel lube. I have been loading an even 32 grns of H4895 with no filler in Winchester cases and neck sizing only. The only reason that I am bothering to ask about IMR4895 is that I have a pound of it that I want to burn up. Otherwise my H4895 load is well tested and works wonderfully.

[Larry Gibson]

With fire formed WW cases the cluster at 9 o'clock on the lower paster is atypical for that load or the same using the 323471.

Larry Gibson

[offshore44]

Not bad for old military rifles, that. My Mausers never cease to amaze me with how well they shoot in comparison to a lot of the newer commercial stuff out there.

Nice shooting Larry!

[adrians]

323471 is a great boolit for all my 8mm mauser shooting ,i also like. and so do my rifles the little brother 323470 , i start out at 29grn and go from there.
:evil:[smilie=p:[smilie=p:[smilie=p::twisted: have a great turkey day....