fire-proofing primers and powder

[gofastman]

dunno if this is the right forum, mods feel free to move if its not.
Im moving into an apartment and i feel its my responsibility to take any/all practical steps to make my hobby as safe as possible.
They're no laws or rules that specifically forbid gunpowder or primer storage in my apartment.

Obviously I don't want to keep it in a strong-box or a safe as it will essentially make a big bomb.

what do you guys think about one of those oily rag containers like this:
http://www.arizonatools.com/img/products/J/JUS09300_LG.JPG

lined with fiberglass insulation?

[Jim]

My suggestion would be to containerize it such that you would have time to escape before it ignited in the event of a fire.

I have a decommissioned refrigerator in my gun room for my powder and primers. I feel sure it would protect the contents for a short while in the event of a small fire. If the house became fully engulfed, the powder and primers would be the least and last of my concerns.

I feel sure there is a way to construct something that is absolutely fireproof, but I doubt if many of us could afford it. The heat generated by a fully engulfing fire is tremendous.

[fryboy]

i like to keep them separate ,and having said that s.a.a.m.i. has a great publication about it , most of it's in about every free powder company's limited data pamphlet and i worry much more about any loaded ammo than jugs of powder , the powder will just add a little heat/fuel to a already large fire ...the ammo will however "cook" off

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf

[btroj]

For an apartment type setti that would work. I would keep powder and primers separate. Primers need to be someplace where they wont risk falling into floor.

I personally keep my powder either on shelves or in a cabinet. Souks there be a fire I realize the stuff is going to go, I just don't know that it is realistic to think it can be "fireproofed".

I bet making sure your smoke detector works and keeping ignition sources to a minimum will improve safety more than "fireproofing" your powder. Keep candles and cigarettes out of you apartment and you have reduced ypur risk already.

[Walter Laich]

while not directly related to the topic I was a volunteer firefither and we responded to an apt fire caused by a guy boiling his motorcycle carb on the stove, in gasoline.

All this just to say you can be as careful as possible but the nut next store can cancel it all out in a second.

[btroj]

When I was affiliated with a swim club we sold fireworks as a fund raiser. By code we had to have fire extinguishers. As the fire Marshall was doing his final inspection he pointed to them and said to never use them. He said to get the heck out of the place. He mentioned the fire dept was going to watch it burn down rather than risk dealing with fireworks in a fire.
Best method to stay safe is be intelligent and know how to get out fast.

[gofastman]

I read lots of people recommending wood boxes, no ferrous fasteners.
metal boxes are a no-no.
maybe something like this:
http://www.gov.im/lib/images/dha/police/firearms/powderstorageunit.jpg
using 1 inch plywood for the outside and 1/2 for the separators

[runfiverun]

thats what the flyers in the primer sleeves recommend a 1" thick wood cabinet.
i use an old cupboard to store the open [unloaded] primers and powder, they will burn and make some cool colors and stuff.
ammo will launch the primers if in a fire

[Shedhunter]

Storing powder and primers in separate military ammo cans shouldn't be done?

[Salmon-boy]

FWIW, storing powder and primers anywhere really depends on the quantities you're talking about..

If you're dealing with a pound or two of powder and 1K primers, go ahead and keep them in a wooden box away from any source of heat.. Any cabinet might do.

IF you're dealing with larger quantities, you might want to think about two things:
1) Insulation. In the case of a small fire, you'd like to keep the powder at a temp below ignition point for as long as possible. Think a steel box lined with one or more layers of 5/8ths drywall.
2) Pressure release. The drywall will only buy time. When the powder ignites, you want the container to vent pressure EASLILY. Think a blown tire - that kind of release. You don't want anything that can contain and create an explosion.

[jonas302]

Wooden boxes are recommended by the manufactures because of the insulation value and they should fall apart easy in an explosion

Perhaps the most responsible and safe thing in an apt would be to simply limit your quantity stored

[Iron Mike Golf]

Storing powder and primers in separate military ammo cans shouldn't be done?

I wouldn't.

What we can do at home for a reasonable cost is not fire proofing, but retarding. Look at storage requirements. 20 lbs and under in total requires nothing special. Over 20 lbs and under 50 lbs requires a contain with walls of 1" thick wood.

The metal in an ammo can will transmit heat very quickly, whether it's from the heat of flames or increased air temperature. Wood will act as an insulator, keeping the inside cool enough, until it burns through.

[Chicken Thief]

2 plys of plasrer-wallboarding on a skeleton of 2x2 with glass insulation between and then 2 plys of plaster wallboarding to make the inside/"box".

Easy peasy to do and it will withstand the standard 1 hour/1900degf test.
Just remember to seal all joints with flameproof selant.

If more than 45+min. is not enough to escape a fire then your bum is indeed going to be blown off!

[imashooter2]

Primers in the original package on a shelf. Primers are high explosive and can shatter and propel anything they are contained in. Minimize the danger by not containing them in anything.

Powder in a 1 inch wall wood box. Powder is just a flammable solid and is not dangerous unless confined in a pressure vessel. The box provides extra time before the powder ignites so as it is not an accelerant to make a small fire big.

[Bad Water Bill]

When I moved into my house I asked the local LEO how they stored their powder. Use a refrigerator and line the entire inside with 3/4 plywood. Should take a couple hours before you should have any problems. Just hope I never have to put it to the test.

[imashooter2]

If a fire is big enough to ignite powder inside a one inch thick wood box, it no longer matters if the powder burns...

[hk33ka1]

Mine are in homemade plywood boxes. Keeps other people out of my stuff, and by the time the boxes are on fire, the house is already burning down. There are now bigger problems than a couple primers or lbs of powder burning off.

[Sonnypie]

Go get you two small to medium ice chests.
Store in those. You can grab and go. ;)

If a fire happens, drive South.

I'd say you could stop around Panama, or so. :D

Modern powders don't explode unless very tightly confined. They just burn off. (Hense, the plastic ice chests...)
Primers go off like popped corn.

Worse hazards are the smoke from your plastics burning down.
TV, plastic furniture parts, Tupperware, girlfriends hair rollers and hair spray.... stuff like that.

[Bad Water Bill]

Thanks for reminding me. Years ago a neighbor had a fire in his basement. His wife left the Iron plugged in and flat on the ironing board. After the fire was out the firemen carried out three of Gregs suits. They were fused together and had shrunk down so much his 3 tear old son could not have fit in them. Almost all of our clothes today are made of synthetic materials that will burn and give off toxic fumes.

[geargnasher]

Storing powder and primers in separate military ammo cans shouldn't be done?

Not really. I'm glad you brought that up because so many people use them. A brick of primers in a sealed steel can with strong latch like ammo cans have makes a superb bomb if dropped or if static electricity or whatever happens to pop one of the primers. Powder will also turn it into a bomb in a fire because, as has been mentioned, the steel conducts heat to the contents very efficiently, and the powder will explode the container due to sudden and high pressure build in confinement. Any magazine should have one weak wall.

Take Fryboy's advise and check out the SAAMI guidelines for constructing powder and primer magazines.

Gear

[geargnasher]

dunno if this is the right forum, mods feel free to move if its not.
Im moving into an apartment and i feel its my responsibility to take any/all practical steps to make my hobby as safe as possible.
They're no laws or rules that specifically forbid gunpowder or primer storage in my apartment.

Obviously I don't want to keep it in a strong-box or a safe as it will essentially make a big bomb.

what do you guys think about one of those oily rag containers like this:
http://www.arizonatools.com/img/products/J/JUS09300_LG.JPG

lined with fiberglass insulation?

The oily rag containers are designed to prevent oxygen from propagating any fire that might start within from spontaneous combustion. That's about it. I wouldn't store powder or primers in at steel container, I'd use wood. Northrop-Grumman used oak as a re-entry heat shield on the Mercury capsules, it makes an excellent insulator.

Gear

[oneokie]

If stored in the original packaging, ammo and smokeless powder are relatively safe from exploding.

Primers and Black Powder (a class "C" explosive) should be stored separately, and away from frequently occupied living areas.

Canned food items will make more of a bang than smokeless powder or ammo in original packaging, due to the amount of pressure required to rupture the can.